Glacier Boats of Alaska - Builder's Forums
Great Alaskan and Boat Building => Projects - Glacier Boats of Alaska boat projects => Topic started by: cj8mule on March 24, 2021, 07:36:22 PM
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13 Bananas is what we're naming this Kodiak. I'm not sure it will stick...
It all started last summer on an Atlantic fishing trip in my 27' Tolman Jumbo. Jake brought some bananas on this trip and stowed them away in the top shelf of the coffin box. Short story is he did eat the bananas and we still caught tuna. We all had a great time and talked a great deal about building his GA Kodiak.
I finished another 24' Jumbo late last summer and am all geared up to build Jake's Kodiak now. The boat barn was only 16 X 32 and worked fine for smaller boats, but cramped up a little when building the shelf, chines, bottom panels, etc. And once assembly started, there wasn't anywhere out of the weather to cut or build other parts. So, we added a 19' X 24' addition.
I'm in the material gathering phase now. The 30 gallons of ebond epoxy arrived Monday and today I ordered $3000 worth of fillers and e glass. I'm picking up about 50 sheets of fir ply and mdo tomorrow. The Jig is already built so I should be making sawdust on Friday. I'm recently retired (lol) and will be building this one pretty much full time. Hopefully it will be finished this time next year for tuna season!
(https://i.imgur.com/OK9UH1G.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/wbLUl1t.jpg)
--dave
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My first question for you Brian: I noticed the addendum says the shelves are built at 5 1/2"W on the kodiak and the GA is 5"W. I'm just going to assume I need to add that 1/2" to the outer edge on the lofting table from sheet 002c. We all know about assuming haha. So, I'll just hang out and work on the stem or transom until I hear from you.
--dave
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My first question for you Brian: I noticed the addendum says the shelves are built at 5 1/2"W on the kodiak and the GA is 5"W. I'm just going to assume I need to add that 1/2" to the outer edge on the lofting table from sheet 002c. We all know about assuming haha. So, I'll just hang out and work on the stem or transom until I hear from you.
--dave
DAVE - The way it works when building the Kodiak is this: Before building any particular piece of the boat, read the standard Great Alaskan stuff (manuals, drawings) and understand them. THEN read the Kodiak Addendum ... the Kodiak Addendum lists EXCEPTIONS to the standard instructions in order to produce the larger boat. For your shelves, mentioned above, there is a drawing (A002) in the Kodiak addendum that replaces the standard drawing (002c). The transom is also MUCH different, and larger, etc etc. Don't cut wood until you've checked the Kodiak Addendum for necessary changes as compared to the standard boat ... you don't want to sit in the moaning chair, right? :D
Brian
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Back in the day, I was Alaska's best salmon netter ... I got LOTS of netting practice while my friends caught ALL the fish (including Chuck the 'banana eater' who was never without and caught tons of fish). I caught none! Then I learned about the extreme (EXTREME) sensitivity of a salmon's nose ... started washing my hands and terminal gear with Lemon Joy, rinsed well and let dry, then rubbed Anise Oil into my hands before I ever baited up or put line in the water. What a difference! Suddenly I was catching just as many as everyone else ... and even enjoyed a banana or three in my lunch :)
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My first question for you Brian: I noticed the addendum says the shelves are built at 5 1/2"W on the kodiak and the GA is 5"W. I'm just going to assume I need to add that 1/2" to the outer edge on the lofting table from sheet 002c. We all know about assuming haha. So, I'll just hang out and work on the stem or transom until I hear from you.
--dave
Thanks Brian. No moaning chair in my boat barn. lol
I printed the manuals out separately a few months ago and put them in nice binders with tabs. (I didn't label the tabs yet) I missed the separate lofting sheets in the addendum notebook. All good now and thanks for clearing my head.
--dave
DAVE - The way it works when building the Kodiak is this: Before building any particular piece of the boat, read the standard Great Alaskan stuff (manuals, drawings) and understand them. THEN read the Kodiak Addendum ... the Kodiak Addendum lists EXCEPTIONS to the standard instructions in order to produce the larger boat. For your shelves, mentioned above, there is a drawing (A002) in the Kodiak addendum that replaces the standard drawing (002c). The transom is also MUCH different, and larger, etc etc. Don't cut wood until you've checked the Kodiak Addendum for necessary changes as compared to the standard boat ... you don't want to sit in the moaning chair, right? :D
Brian
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No problem! It's a LOT of info to absorb all at once. I always tell people to crash through reading the manuals and examining the drawings fast, and to understand each ... then expect to forget half of it and to read each applicable section again as you go. The first read breaks new ground in your brain, and on the second read (while building), it'll be a lot more familiar and easier to figure out.
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I've probably missed a correction somewhere, but can't find a good number for the lofting of the bottom panels at 30". Sheet 006C 30" lofting has a typo or something... looks like 26" and 2 9/16 or maybe 2 5/8".
Getting ready to loft the front panel and will see which number makes it more fair.
--dave
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I've probably missed a correction somewhere, but can't find a good number for the lofting of the bottom panels at 30". Sheet 006C 30" lofting has a typo or something... looks like 26" and 2 9/16 or maybe 2 5/8".
Getting ready to loft the front panel and will see which number makes it more fair.
--dave
26 9/16" is your number for bottom panel lofting at 30"
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I've probably missed a correction somewhere, but can't find a good number for the lofting of the bottom panels at 30". Sheet 006C 30" lofting has a typo or something... looks like 26" and 2 9/16 or maybe 2 5/8".
Getting ready to loft the front panel and will see which number makes it more fair.
--dave
26 9/16" is your number for bottom panel lofting at 30"
Good catch! I didn't realize the drawing has scrunched up numbers like that! Here's the loftings, un-scrunched! (I'll get the drawing uploaded sometime today - you'll know it by the updated date at the website). Top is chine lofting, bottom is fairbody lofting:
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Thanks guys!
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A little progress on the Kodiak. Pics or it didn't happen, right?
Since this big bottom girl will have an euro type rear end, I built a transom similar to a stern drive. It's 2 layers of 3/4" fir and 1 layer of 1/2" mdo fir. The transom area is supposed to have a fish hold or maybe an aerator. Then a 28" pod to mount a couple of 150 merc 4 strokes.
(https://i.imgur.com/B1BaA5k.jpg)
The shelves and stem are built. 4 halves of the bottom panels are curing, and the 2X12 stringers arrived today. The stringers are lvls and have a wax treatment on them. Have to get the planer back out :)
(https://i.imgur.com/rjZStrF.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/fJQ4ptg.jpg)
--dave
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You're planning on extending bottom panels and stringers for the Euro transom that'll carry those 150s, right? How long will your Kodiak be, including the aft bottom extension?
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You're planning on extending bottom panels and stringers for the Euro transom that'll carry those 150s, right? How long will your Kodiak be, including the aft bottom extension?
My plan was to leave the bottom all one level, but was outvoted. OAL will be 34' including the extension which will be 28 inches minimum so the motors fully go up. The extension will be stepped up, but the stringers will continue through. I have the appropriate moaning chair for Jake if there are any ill effects like porpoising.
(https://i.imgur.com/4OtmRVb.jpg)
Bottom panels are curing and will be lofting and cutting out chines on Thursday. The fellas are coming down this weekend for a work day. If they work hard, maybe I'll take them out fishing on Saturday :)
(https://i.imgur.com/pYGxaQU.jpg)
--dave
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Well ... you're officially on the naughty list now! That's 4 feet beyond recommended and I also don't recommend the 'lift out of the water' style (aka Armstrong) brackets. It'll be interesting to see how the boat turns out. Make sure you build heavy. (You been drinking with Dave again?) :D Love the moaning chair ... hope you don't need it!
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Well ... you're officially on the naughty list now! That's 4 feet beyond recommended and I also don't recommend the 'lift out of the water' style (aka Armstrong) brackets. It'll be interesting to see how the boat turns out. Make sure you build heavy. (You been drinking with Dave again?) :D Love the moaning chair ... hope you don't need it!
LOL. Dave was one of the (aka Armstrong) bracket yes votes. Theory is this is a 31' 6" boat on plane with the bracket out of the water. We'll see if there are any ill effects. I'm not worried about the chines walking... only porpoising. I believe your design wouldn't porpoise until the low 40's at 31' 6". (Even if it would!) I'm hoping for the best, but always have the moaning chair for backup.
--dave
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Well ... you're officially on the naughty list now! That's 4 feet beyond recommended and I also don't recommend the 'lift out of the water' style (aka Armstrong) brackets. It'll be interesting to see how the boat turns out. Make sure you build heavy. (You been drinking with Dave again?) :D Love the moaning chair ... hope you don't need it!
LOL. Dave was one of the (aka Armstrong) bracket yes votes. Theory is this is a 31' 6" boat on plane with the bracket out of the water. We'll see if there are any ill effects. I'm not worried about the chines walking... only porpoising. I believe your design wouldn't porpoise until the low 40's at 31' 6". (Even if it would!) I'm hoping for the best, but always have the moaning chair for backup.
--dave
The advantage of the Armstrong type bracket is that it allows the water to rise behind the boat, which in turn lets you run the prop higher, which in turn means the line of thrust is closer to vertical center of gravity ... which is always above the water in a planing boat on plane. The more you can line up the prop's line of thrust with the VCG, the more efficient the boat will run. The only downside is that without hull support under or just ahead of the motor, your CG *will* move aft versus the waterline ... this can be an issue with lighter weight boats ... and comparatively, the Great Alaskan is lightweight compared to commercially-built equivalents. You're on the right track using those heavy and taller-than-required stringers (they're a beast!), but the note of caution is to NOT build too light. Building heavier will help balance out the weight of the motors behind the boat... As Dave has suggested in the past, float the boat with motors on it and then use buckets or bags of sand in the boat to 'model' how the boat will trim when finished. Try your best on this. Your 34-footer should trim about 1-1/2 inches high at the bow versus the stern if the CG is in the 'window'.
Brian
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Well ... you're officially on the naughty list now! That's 4 feet beyond recommended and I also don't recommend the 'lift out of the water' style (aka Armstrong) brackets. It'll be interesting to see how the boat turns out. Make sure you build heavy. (You been drinking with Dave again?) :D Love the moaning chair ... hope you don't need it!
LOL. Dave was one of the (aka Armstrong) bracket yes votes. Theory is this is a 31' 6" boat on plane with the bracket out of the water. We'll see if there are any ill effects. I'm not worried about the chines walking... only porpoising. I believe your design wouldn't porpoise until the low 40's at 31' 6". (Even if it would!) I'm hoping for the best, but always have the moaning chair for backup.
--dave
The advantage of the Armstrong type bracket is that it allows the water to rise behind the boat, which in turn lets you run the prop higher, which in turn means the line of thrust is closer to vertical center of gravity ... which is always above the water in a planing boat on plane. The more you can line up the prop's line of thrust with the VCG, the more efficient the boat will run. The only downside is that without hull support under or just ahead of the motor, your CG *will* move aft versus the waterline ... this can be an issue with lighter weight boats ... and comparatively, the Great Alaskan is lightweight compared to commercially-built equivalents. You're on the right track using those heavy and taller-than-required stringers (they're a beast!), but the note of caution is to NOT build too light. Building heavier will help balance out the weight of the motors behind the boat... As Dave has suggested in the past, float the boat with motors on it and then use buckets or bags of sand in the boat to 'model' how the boat will trim when finished. Try your best on this. Your 34-footer should trim about 1-1/2 inches high at the bow versus the stern if the CG is in the 'window'.
Brian
Thanks for that sound advice Brian!
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Getting a little bit of work done
(https://i.imgur.com/YeonfQn.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/tv6HKPq.jpg)
A word of caution from those who would choose to build with fir MDO. It's a great product, but it will not make the bend for the 3/8" bottom panels. Since other types of 3/8" marine ply was unavailable to me, I made it work with 3 layers of 1/4" fir. I can only assume the thin paper they use on the mdo keeps it from making the bend. I'm pretty sure it'll make the bend at the bow for the sides, but a definite no go for the fairbody.
I was looking for some pictures of the failure, but can't find any.
Anyway, back on track! We'll be putting the jig together this weekend.
--dave
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Looks great.
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Looks like every thing fit together great and the glass work is first class. Are building the Kodiak or the Great Alaskan?
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Looks great.
Thanks Djeffrey
Looks like every thing fit together great and the glass work is first class. Are building the Kodiak or the Great Alaskan?
Thanks Scott. I'm building a Kodiak for a fellow out of New Jersey.
Unfortunately, progress slowed a little while I remodeled a ladies bathroom the last couple of weeks. However, some work did get done.
(https://i.imgur.com/TJNBGei.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/e9vERdn.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/A40W9om.jpg)
There's still a layer of 1/4" fir to go on the bow. Certainly hating not being able to find 3/8" marine ply around here. Waiting on the owners design for the engine pod. I suspect the bottom of the stringers will be ripped down around 3 or 4 inches, then I'll mortise a 3/4" slot for the pod bottom into the transom.
Still on schedule for a July 4th weekend flip. We'll see... lol.
--dave
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Keel and chines are taped as well as a layer of 10 oz on the bottom. I'll be fairing the bottom before I put the sides on since this Kodiak is so tall and wide. I'll just stop short at the chine to bottom joint since the side/chine joint will be needing tape
(https://i.imgur.com/HUfZViq.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/lknPIgU.jpg)
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Dave ... thought of a name for the boat ... "Jersey Behemoth" ... :D
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Dave ... thought of a name for the boat ... "Jersey Behemoth" ... :D
Definitely a big girl. Gonna be interesting getting her flipped over.
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Dave ... thought of a name for the boat ... "Jersey Behemoth" ... :D
Definitely a big girl. Gonna be interesting getting her flipped over.
Lots of Pizza ... it's the secret to making the boat flip easier :)
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Dave ... thought of a name for the boat ... "Jersey Behemoth" ... :D
Definitely a big girl. Gonna be interesting getting her flipped over.
Lots of Pizza ... it's the secret to making the boat flip easier :)
I did that for the green 27' Jumbo. The grey 24' Jumbo was during the covid shutdown and the owner and I pulled it out with a very old 2 wheel gravely tractor. Then winched it back into the barn with some carpet. This Kodiak is on another dimension... I'm thinking John Deer front loader and 10 guys with a dozen large pizza. lol
--dave
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Had to take a couple months off to work on some other projects, but back at it.
(https://i.imgur.com/chw4TSRm.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/XaSI0Nhm.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/BGNE05em.jpg)
(bow's not set on the port side yet... needed the scarf to set first)
--dave
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A little progress.
(https://i.imgur.com/pWt3YKdm.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/S5jqih6m.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/nKiYUpFm.jpg)
I was pretty pleased to get some of the boats stringers through the pod into the motor board. I'm not sure how much of the motor pod I'll do until the boat gets flipped. It'll be much easier to scab in more stringers and fillet right side up :)
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2 months went by quick... guess an update would be appropriate ;D
Fairing is almost complete and will be time to add the spray rails soon.
(https://i.imgur.com/FKPQgiTm.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/2ugKOwLm.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/KNCnfU7m.jpg)
It's been tough working on the boat these last few days. We lost a great friend and mentor. We'll miss you Dave Nolan!
(https://i.imgur.com/wD4EaDbm.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/IZelxbnm.jpg)
With Tanya's permission (Dave's wife), this Kodiak will be named the "F/V Uncle Dave" in honor of a legend. As I'm spending 2 months fairing and sanding, I hear Dave tell me "I'm building a fishing boat and not a grand piano". I used to get a chuckle out of that every time he said it to me. My OCD will not allow me to fair with a 60 grit flap disk and call it quits. :)
--dave
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Preparing for the move to Florida in the next few months. While I was there finalizing the deal on the house, I drove on down to Miami and picked up a trailer for the Kodiak. Not a bad price for a tandom 12000 pound trailer with disk brakes both axles. $7600.00
[(https://i.imgur.com/TyIdyqxl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/T10Etdcl.jpg)
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The name is awesome, I was wishing I could bounce some ideas off of him the other day. You are making great progress. On my Tolman I did the spray rails after fairing and ended up with a mess of squeeze out that kicked off too quick. I'd put a line of blue tape and some $.99 drop cloths (i get them from Raka) just below the spray rail if you haven't put them on yet.
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The name is awesome, I was wishing I could bounce some ideas off of him the other day. You are making great progress. On my Tolman I did the spray rails after fairing and ended up with a mess of squeeze out that kicked off too quick. I'd put a line of blue tape and some $.99 drop cloths (i get them from Raka) just below the spray rail if you haven't put them on yet.
We all lost a great advocate with Dave's passing. I'm missing him right now while slugging it out with some guy who thinks stitch and glue boats have no business in the ocean. This is on a facebook page called plywood boat building. Dave would have ate this guys lunch! lol
I had to fair first before adding the spray rails because of a few scarfs on the side panels. It wasn't real bad, but it's so much easier to make sure everything is flat and good without spray rails in the way. I hear you about creating a mess! It's hard to sand any epoxy drips on top of a softer fairing material. I have another month to finish the fairing and installing the spray rails before the temps are good enough for painting. The F/V Uncle Dave needs to be flipped and on it's way to Florida in May.
--dave
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F/V Uncle Dave got sanded a bunch more, some sealer primer, and 3 top coats of Alexseal Cloud White. I'm really impressed with this product. It was $1200 for all the filler primer, primer, and top coat, but worth it. There's still a half gallon of top coat, but the primers are all but gone. The flip party will be on May 7th with May 14th being the rain date. The movers come the 18th and the boat will be moved a few days later to Florida to be finished. Can't wait to get F/V Uncle Dave on the new trailer and in the new barn.
(https://i.imgur.com/mnP3z5Em.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/rLu10Dtm.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/5xMe0rom.jpg)
Creature features... that's not a bug on your screen
(https://i.imgur.com/CL8WyUZm.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/6xJ2cJkm.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/E1clyp5m.jpg)
--dave
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Wow you are making great progress! Congrats
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It looks amazing!!!!
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Boat flipping last weekend! Everything went well and had plenty of great help around. We used Jake's John Deer tractor and a skidsteer rental to pick the boat up a few inches. Then, we disassembled the jig the boat was on.
(https://i.imgur.com/xYUNnBTm.jpg)
We created a pocket for both the front and rear forks to allow the boat to slide forward and backward. That way Jake and I had a little room for error and didn't have to move the tractor/skidsteer exactly at the same speed.
(https://i.imgur.com/8EHxYZ1m.jpg)
We calculated the boat weight to be around 2000 pounds so we used the tractor to do the flipping once we got it out on the grass. Then we used the forks to raise the bow and drove the trailer under and winched it up.
(https://i.imgur.com/i4P7Otfm.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/R6DNmF0m.jpg)
Now it's time for some epoxy and fiberglass work. I want to get everything protected before moving this boat down the highway. Rain and bare wood is not a good thing even if it is marine plywood.
(https://i.imgur.com/kNQzoBTm.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/oFvoVB3m.jpg)
--dave
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Its amazing how many ways builders have flipped there boats, you have the first skidsteer assisted flip. Your doing a great job, nice and clean work!
Congrats on the flip!
:)
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Congratulations on this major milestone! Looking great!
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Its amazing how many ways builders have flipped there boats, you have the first skidsteer assisted flip. Your doing a great job, nice and clean work!
Congrats on the flip!
:)
Right? I've flipped them with 10 guys, and with wheels on the jig and a small lawn tractor. I'm just older now and didn't want to mess with a 2000 pound hull. My build space is narrow and roof is so low.
Thanks, the flip went pretty well and now the real fun work begins :)
--dave
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Congratulations on this major milestone! Looking great!
Thanks Brian. And by the way, your plans rock.
I'm going to throw some painters tape on the transom and put your website address on with black sharpie. Maybe that'll throw some business your way on that 1000 mile trip down interstate 95 to FL. It'll at least cut down on one question people will be asking. lol. My green tolman has been all over the north east and florida. I can't pull in a rest stop or gas station with out people asking questions. haha
--dave
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Congratulations on this major milestone! Looking great!
Thanks Brian. And by the way, your plans rock.
I'm going to throw some painters tape on the transom and put your website address on with black sharpie. Maybe that'll throw some business your way on that 1000 mile trip down interstate 95 to FL. It'll at least cut down on one question people will be asking. lol. My green tolman has been all over the north east and florida. I can't pull in a rest stop or gas station with out people asking questions. haha
--dave
Love it! ... in memory of Nolan, blue painter tape on the transom with "Glacier Boats of Alaska" hand-written in black sharpie!
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Oh man... has it been a year since an update!
The move to Florida definitely got in the way of boat building that's for sure. I'm ready to let some sawdust fly and some epoxy to fling :) I finished boxing in the motor pod and spent the last couple of weeks sanding and fairing.
Next up is cutting a tuna/dive door in the transom to help this old man in/out of the boat.
(https://i.imgur.com/G4AYnblm.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/JyWeHTvm.jpg)
--dave
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The 30X50 boat barn finally passed all the inspections so I'm back on the Kodiak. This boat is a beast to fair and sand... it just keeps going and going.... and going. lol
It's not part of the plans, but we decided to put a wood rub rail on at the sheer line. It's almost faired in and ready for fiberglass, but I'm going to build the anchor pulpit first. We've decided to stick with a normal size cuddy, a 10' pilot house, and a 12' fishing deck.
I ordered some micro ballons and wood flour this week from fiberglass supply. The price for both almost went up 50% compared to 16 months ago. I'm almost out of ply and am not looking forward to seeing how much that's increased. Everything gone up but my pay check... lol
(https://i.imgur.com/pgNey2rm.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/LVKBelkm.jpg)
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That's a lot of cockpit - you'll want to try to keep heavier weights aft, don't put a big fuel tank forward, etc ... balance the boat right, in other words. You'll get better gas mileage if your at-rest trim is slightly up. The trim, a little up or down at the bow, doesn't matter so much except that the boat is more optimal with a wee bit of bow-up trim. It's a good goal to have. The latest Kodiak addendum has advice on how to do this, and when you get there, it's not a bad idea to float the boat at a dock and add buckets of sand or tube-sand in various places to emulate what's left to go into the boat ... then tune as necessary.
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with all the of the concerns regarding weight in the Kodiak I'm glad I went with the standard GA. It would be nice to have another 2 feet of cockpit, but I never intended to have more than 2 buddies along on trips. I feel the pain for everyone building now and I'm glad I was able to when I did. Prices for materials are crazy.
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That's a lot of cockpit - you'll want to try to keep heavier weights aft, don't put a big fuel tank forward, etc ... balance the boat right, in other words. You'll get better gas mileage if your at-rest trim is slightly up. The trim, a little up or down at the bow, doesn't matter so much except that the boat is more optimal with a wee bit of bow-up trim. It's a good goal to have. The latest Kodiak addendum has advice on how to do this, and when you get there, it's not a bad idea to float the boat at a dock and add buckets of sand or tube-sand in various places to emulate what's left to go into the boat ... then tune as necessary.
Thanks for the advice Brian. The plan right now is for the generator and 2 house batteries at the transom. Below deck he would like 2 ea 100 gal fuel tanks that will start about 12" forward of the transom going forward, then a small water tank. (I've not calculated if there's enough room for both fuel tanks to be 100 gallons). I think 150 gallons of fuel would be plenty and expect at least 3 nm / gal from this boat at cruise. It'll be powered with a pair of 2007 mercury 4 stroke 150's that have 100 hours on them. They've been pretty much pickled and appear brand new.
There will also be 3 batteries for the spot lock trolling motor somewhere midship to forward up to the front pilothouse bulkhead.
I've put a lot of hours on my 27' Jumbo and believe your advice to be perfect for someone building a Tolman also. I've noticed a huge difference in fuel mileage and performance by making small changes like moving a 100 pound life raft from the cuddy to around station 6 in the pilot house. I know you made a completely new plan for the GA, but there are enough similarities between them in construction material, weight, etc. I made many trips offshore in the NE Atlantic with a 500 pound tuna cooler sitting 3 foot forward of the transom and an extra 300 pounds of jerry can fuel in the pilothouse. (LOL... those were the 2 stroke days as there was already 87 gallons of fuel in under deck. ha ha)
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with all the of the concerns regarding weight in the Kodiak I'm glad I went with the standard GA. It would be nice to have another 2 feet of cockpit, but I never intended to have more than 2 buddies along on trips. I feel the pain for everyone building now and I'm glad I was able to when I did. Prices for materials are crazy.
I agree Todd, material prices are just plain stupid right now. Nothing is set in epoxy yet :) we'll see if he still wants 10 foot of pilot house once the cuddy is built. There is a rule of 1/3's that helps make things look right but it's all fun and games laying this stuff out. I enjoy it.
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Thanks for the advice Brian. The plan right now is for the generator and 2 house batteries at the transom. Below deck he would like 2 ea 100 gal fuel tanks that will start about 12" forward of the transom going forward, then a small water tank. (I've not calculated if there's enough room for both fuel tanks to be 100 gallons). I think 150 gallons of fuel would be plenty and expect at least 3 nm / gal from this boat at cruise. It'll be powered with a pair of 2007 mercury 4 stroke 150's that have 100 hours on them. They've been pretty much pickled and appear brand new.
There will also be 3 batteries for the spot lock trolling motor somewhere midship to forward up to the front pilothouse bulkhead.
I've put a lot of hours on my 27' Jumbo and believe your advice to be perfect for someone building a Tolman also. I've noticed a huge difference in fuel mileage and performance by making small changes like moving a 100 pound life raft from the cuddy to around station 6 in the pilot house. I know you made a completely new plan for the GA, but there are enough similarities between them in construction material, weight, etc. I made many trips offshore in the NE Atlantic with a 500 pound tuna cooler sitting 3 foot forward of the transom and an extra 300 pounds of jerry can fuel in the pilothouse. (LOL... those were the 2 stroke days as there was already 87 gallons of fuel in under deck. ha ha)
Sounds good, although the 3 batteries in the house, possibly as far forward as the forward house/aft cuddy bulkhead might be weight you could keep closer to the aft house bulkhead. And as far as boat similarities go, I was and am very impressed with the structural design of the Tolman, and that's why I used it (with Renn Tolman's explicit written permission) on the GA ... if something's optimal, then it's optimal ... don't reinvent the wheel. And also, all planing hulls are very similar on where the center of gravity goes, and that impacts loading decisions. Unlike a displacement vessel, planing hulls have a list of requirements that make them able to skim across the water efficiently ... more akin to an aircraft needing to be balanced perfectly versus a car rolling down the highway that can be loaded pretty much any way you want ... not so on airplanes and planing hulls. Two thirds of a planing hull is forward of the center of gravity, and like a teeter totter, you must pay attention to loading in order to keep things balanced and operating optimally.
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Those 3 batteries are for the spot lock trolling motor and need to stay together. Maybe we could place them near the rear pilot house bulkhead on starboard side and then counter that weight with a tackle station on the port side. I'm thinking those 3 batteries weigh over 150 pounds, so it's significant enough to think about it. If Jake's anything like me, The tackle station ends up carrying at least 100 pounds of just lead weights. lol
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I agree. Putting those 3 batteries at the aft pilothouse bulkhead would be fine. The CG on a 28 foot boat is around 9-1/2 feet forward of the transom or so. Weight aft of the CG encourages bow-up trim and vice versa for weights forward of the CG. And the further a weight is from the CG, the more impact it has. Example) 150# located 10 feet forward of the CG creates a 1500# moment-arm that encourages bow-down trim. If you tried to balance that out with a tackle area that was 5 feet aft of the CG, then the tackle area would need to weigh 300# since 300# at 5 feet aft creates a balancing 1500# bow-up trim. Get it? The boat is big and it's forgiving of these things, but during the planning and construction of the boat, you want to aim towards a balanced boat and then use it any way you want once it's done and your careful planning will result in a very-forgiving boat.
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Some progress.
(https://i.imgur.com/n7SflKPm.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/sfrPGSAm.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/LbN89TQm.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/N6jUK1lm.jpg)
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Interesting reading through the comments - a few things stand out to me that you might want to consider further:
1. Thinking that any Kodiak will get 3 nmpg is fantasy I think. For roundtrip averages, even regular GAs have difficulty averaging that on full trips consistently. Lindy's Kodiak, which he built heavy with lots of fancy hardwood cabinetry etc doesn't even get 2 nmpg right now with his brand new twin 175 Yamahas. So if it was me and you're building light and smart, I'd plan for no more than 2.5 nmpg and maybe even a bit less.
2. I'm curious why the generator? As an electrical designer/installer, I've now talked 3 clients out of generators and instead got them into good lithium house batteries and solar systems and they've loved that setup universally. The Kodiak has tons of roof space for solar panels.
3. House batteries way back at the transom sounds like an awful lot of weight/congestion back there, especially with twins, plus larger cable sizes needed to get to the main helm panel. Plus that takes space where you might want a washdown pump, bilge blower, final negative/ground/bonding bus, start batteries, fuel system parts like water separator, valves, etc. etc. My favorite place for batteries is just aft or just forward (in the case of lithium) of the aft cabin bulkhead. This puts them closer to the CG of the boat and in a convenient place for wire runs.
Keep up the good work, this is a fun one to watch!
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Using twins (Lindy) will always use more fuel than using a bigger single - Twins are primarily an insurance plan. If one motor fails, you've got a second one of healthy size to get you back with - much better than going 100 miles back on a 15 hp kicker ... in a zone with no towing services. The highest mileage option is a sterndrive, and second highest is a single outboard, multiple outboards come in last - but is the only option that gives you extra safety via redundancy. The boat's displacement, weight, is the largest factor affecting mileage. Being properly balanced around the CG is the next thing. Hull form next (including defects such as humps and hollows). Then parasitic drag such as bottom roughness, skegs and keels, hardware, the leg on outboards etc.
Brian
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Interesting reading through the comments - a few things stand out to me that you might want to consider further:
1. Thinking that any Kodiak will get 3 nmpg is fantasy I think. For roundtrip averages, even regular GAs have difficulty averaging that on full trips consistently. Lindy's Kodiak, which he built heavy with lots of fancy hardwood cabinetry etc doesn't even get 2 nmpg right now with his brand new twin 175 Yamahas. So if it was me and you're building light and smart, I'd plan for no more than 2.5 nmpg and maybe even a bit less.
2. I'm curious why the generator? As an electrical designer/installer, I've now talked 3 clients out of generators and instead got them into good lithium house batteries and solar systems and they've loved that setup universally. The Kodiak has tons of roof space for solar panels.
3. House batteries way back at the transom sounds like an awful lot of weight/congestion back there, especially with twins, plus larger cable sizes needed to get to the main helm panel. Plus that takes space where you might want a washdown pump, bilge blower, final negative/ground/bonding bus, start batteries, fuel system parts like water separator, valves, etc. etc. My favorite place for batteries is just aft or just forward (in the case of lithium) of the aft cabin bulkhead. This puts them closer to the CG of the boat and in a convenient place for wire runs.
Keep up the good work, this is a fun one to watch!
Jake is wanting to pack a lot of things in this Kodiak. He's putting on a spot lock trolling motor that will use 3 batteries and then the other 2 house batteries. I don't think I'll be able to talk him out of the generator.
To be honest if he gets 1.5 to 2 nmpg he'll be happy. This boat keeps getting heavier and heavier. Enough so we're going to need to be very careful with where stuff is going to go.
I don't think I mentioned it before, but I'm preparing for an anti roll gyro that weighs 286 pounds. If anything needs to go at the center pivot point, this thing does. It is going to be interesting calculating all this stuff out for a good CG.
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Working on the cuddy is one of my least favorite areas... knee knockers, head knockers... and just a general pain. :P
(https://i.imgur.com/TksdyFtm.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/s5lBIcSm.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/uG97nhUm.jpg)
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I am really interested to see your sea keeper integration if you do go that route. That was on my list but I eventually tossed it to just keep things a bit more simple. Also going to be interesting to watch the weight distribution. That problem is a bit of a thorn in my side that I am still working out.
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Using twins (Lindy) will always use more fuel than using a bigger single - Twins are primarily an insurance plan. If one motor fails, you've got a second one of healthy size to get you back with - much better than going 100 miles back on a 15 hp kicker ... in a zone with no towing services. The highest mileage option is a sterndrive, and second highest is a single outboard, multiple outboards come in last - but is the only option that gives you extra safety via redundancy. The boat's displacement, weight, is the largest factor affecting mileage. Being properly balanced around the CG is the next thing. Hull form next (including defects such as humps and hollows). Then parasitic drag such as bottom roughness, skegs and keels, hardware, the leg on outboards etc.
Brian
Yes I LOVE my twins, already came home on one motor once. Just clogs in fuel filter but non the less my single brought me home!!! yes of course I had extra filters on board but I wasn't sure on the problem till the next day. Yes I burn more fuel, but well worth it for me anyway. Besides Twins look Bad Ass!! My normal cruse to the fishing grounds loaded up with ice, all gear, full 60 gallon bait tank & 160 gal fuel 21-23 mph @ 2.1 to 2.4 MPG depending on seas. Not bad for a 31.6' Kodiak. Love my GA !!!!
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Pretty impressive performance, Chuck! It really is, especially with twins!
For the rest of the crowd as you ponder power solutions ... note that the term "inshore" generally refers to operation within around 20 miles of a suitable port, while "offshore" is anything further out than that. Some define "offshore" as being "off soundings", which in turn basically means your depth finder (or fish finder) is not returning any depth information because the bottom is too far down and too much sonar loss is occurring. Anyway, I ramble ... I just wanted to state the general rule of thumb that if you operate in inshore conditions, mostly, a single and a kicker is recommended. If you operate offshore, mostly, then twins is generally recommended.
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Bringing the cuddy area home. Ready for some sanding and paint then the roof can go on.
(https://i.imgur.com/XTpS60Jm.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/qgkQdiNm.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/4Y4qaGWm.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Y4OfyrXm.jpg)
The anchor well has a fiberglass tube drain for the starboard side.... Always hate cutting holes in boats. lol
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I hate cutting holes in boats ... near or below the waterline. The whole top of the hull is a big ol' hole ... it's just further from the water!
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Closed up the cuddy today. Should be setting the pilot house window frame next week.
(https://i.imgur.com/W10rBZam.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/xL4I2FAm.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/tlaopjRm.jpg)
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Got the pilot house almost closed in. Still lots of fairing and fiberlassing.
(https://i.imgur.com/t8nG96kl.jpg)
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Sweet! Gonna be a nice boat!
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Looks great. Due to the number of times you will be crawling in and out of it, I would get it closer to the floor. But I will admit mine was probably that high.
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Sweet! Gonna be a nice boat!
Thanks Brian
Looks great. Due to the number of times you will be crawling in and out of it, I would get it closer to the floor. But I will admit mine was probably that high.
Thanks ghelland. I know you're right about getting it lower to the floor. Unfortunately, I need to put another coating on the bottom than what's on there right now. I've already sanded and prepped for it. So in the meantime I built a real nice stair case to access the swim platform. Still haven't cut the transom door which is a pain to climb over ;D
Took a little cruise to Mexico last week, but was able to get some work done before and after. Most of the fiberglassing is done and prepping for some fairing.... my favorite part. lol
(https://i.imgur.com/nQDltd3l.jpg?1)
Also, got some really nice escape hatches. One is going in the cuddy and one in the pilot house.
(https://i.imgur.com/BZGvo9vl.jpg)
--dave
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Those hatches are nice. I have the same one in my cuddy
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(https://i.imgur.com/CgSH1ynl.jpg)
cuddy port lights cut in
(https://i.imgur.com/Hu7b6u8l.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/43vDJGol.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/61iEygXl.jpg)
Preparing for the roof install. Made a couple places for some rod storage and hand holds in roof supports
(https://i.imgur.com/x5cQSEvl.jpg)
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looking good! makes me wish I had another one to build. In the shot looking forward from the transom I don't see any of the vertical supports between the chine flats and the sheer. Are they omitted or are they sheathed over? Looks very clean.
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looking good! makes me wish I had another one to build. In the shot looking forward from the transom I don't see any of the vertical supports between the chine flats and the sheer. Are they omitted or are they sheathed over? Looks very clean.
Thanks for looking out for me Todd. The deck isn't glued in yet as there are quite a few things to work out first.
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Pilot house roof getting done.
(https://i.imgur.com/Z1XQj63l.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/WhC58UNl.jpg)
The roof also gets a hatch like the cuddy is getting.
(https://i.imgur.com/mm5TES3l.jpg)
Jake picked up the 280 pound gyro and will be bringing it to Florida soon. That's gonna be lots of fun setting that thing. The engineers said we've over engineered the structure holding down the gyro, but it's also located at an area that boats take a pounding. I'll get some pictures of that gyro in a few weeks.
--dave
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Did I read somewhere in the manual that fiberglass tape isn't required for inside pilothouse roof / side joints?
EDIT*** I found it in part 2 of the manual. Inside pilothouse roof / side joints do not have to be taped.
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Lot's of fairing, sanding, and moaning going on around here. Fairing is hard on an old man. lol
(https://i.imgur.com/rxIt5wil.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/xTatD5nl.jpg)
2 each 107 gallon aluminum gas tanks are being made in NJ as well as a mounting plate for the gyro. Lot's of bling being delivered like an anchor, chain, hatches, and cleats. Really hoping for a summer launch... we'll see.
--dave
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Looks great and it seems like you are making quick progress. I am really interested in see what you do with the gyro.
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Wow, your GA is really looking great. What an exciting time where you are in your build. I remember this stage so well so exciting!!
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If a fellow needs to take some time off from sanding, fishing is a good way to recharge and relax.
(https://i.imgur.com/1elh8kJl.jpg)
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Some kind of barracuda?
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Some kind of barracuda?
It's a small 40" Wahoo. They are excellent table fare and grill really nice.
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Some kind of barracuda?
It's a small 40" Wahoo. They are excellent table fare and grill really nice.
Looks like a fast fighting fish ... probably fun to catch! (And ... eat!)
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Time for some primer. I'm using Alexseal products which have a hefty price tag, but does a great job.
(https://i.imgur.com/1ytPzuwl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/6gRBcyyl.jpg)
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What kind of sprayer are you using? I assume an HVLP, but is it a GP one or a detail gun?
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looking good! Alexseal products were a pleasure to work with, even for us roll on folks
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What kind of sprayer are you using? I assume an HVLP, but is it a GP one or a detail gun?
I bought a pretty nice HVLP gun, but loaned it out and came back messed up. I have it torn down soaking now trying to save it. In the meantime I picked up the cheap Harbor Freight guns yesterday for $15 each. I can get those dialed in pretty good. They won't last long but will do the job.
looking good! Alexseal products were a pleasure to work with, even for us roll on folks
I agree Todd. The bunks and cubby holes were to difficult to spray so I rolled some top coat today with a 4" foam roller and chip brush. The pictures above was just of the normal epoxy primer. I used an epoxy filler primer on the bottom which was really great stuff. It would be expensive but you could easily fill the weave of 6 ounce cloth with that filler primer.
I'm going to prime the cabin outside roof tomorrow and top coat the rest of the cuddy and pilot house inside roof. Fingers crossed for no orange peel or runs. HAHA
--dave
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Most of the outside is in primer. There are still some areas with pin holes and such so some more fairing will be necessary.
(https://i.imgur.com/hiHwlT5l.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Sf4etWwl.jpg)
I did get some top coat put on the roof.
(https://i.imgur.com/pCwlDHMl.jpg)
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CJ,
Looking sweet! Love the pulpit, it gives it a nice attitude. I really enjoy watching your build and nice shop too, how are you keeping it so clean?
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looking great