Glacier Boats of Alaska - Builder's Forums
Great Alaskan and Boat Building => Projects - Glacier Boats of Alaska boat projects => Topic started by: Rbob on April 22, 2016, 11:27:55 AM
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I started my build in February, which some of you know. Here are some pics, the build is slower than I want as I keep having life get in the way but that is to be expected. I do not plan on launching this year but my goal is by next summer.
Here are some pics: Build the jig with big wheels, 6x6 risers and jack supports in the middle for easy leveling. (lesson from Cannon)
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Took the handle off of the jack's and welded nuts in place.
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Wood working is so dusty, cant take it so I installed exhaust fan and put harbor freight dust collector right at the mixing station, pic does not show but I changed out the cheap bag on the dust collector for a
Wynn 35a filter, its good down to .5 micron. I still wear a mask when mixing, sanding etc. z(3M Tekk P100 Particulate Filter) The fumed silica scares me.
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Great progress, looking real good!
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I can't remember if I mentioned midway support on the jig or not... I'll have to read my own construction manuals! But was there an issue with sagging from weight on the jig? If so, I'll update the construction manual to warn folks to use supports like you and Cannon did/are. Those jacks look great, BTW. I can tell that you'll do a great job on the boat ... Where will you be using the boat? Columbia, Puget Sound ...will you go out of Westport? Buoy 10? Out over the Columbia bar? Adrian Pau takes his GA out over the bar and had a lot of good things to say about the boat ..."it gets you home long after you wish you were home" kind of stuff.
Brian
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Brian,
The jig does sag, maybe close to a 1/4" which I checked with the laser level all 4 corners and the middle . I fish every where I can, Buoy 10, Westport, LaPush, 55 miles out after tuna and crabbing/ shrimping in the Puget Sound, I am less than 10 minutes from the launch at Zittles Marina and an hour from Westport.
On the stringers, since I am raising the sole 4" I am going to just add 4" of LVL up to the aft cuddy bulkhead. I looked at the local Home Depot and Lowes and the hem fir sucks. The LVL only adds 84lbs. I beat myself up over this, maybe could have raised the sole with the under deck structure.
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Saturday I installed the shelf molds on the jig, meticulously re-leveled all 4 corners and the center supports and double checked all the shelf molds for accuracy, put down a piece of yellow tape over the center marks and measured from the end of the molds,checked height of the molds at the extremities and made minor adjustments shimming the wheels / adjusting leveling jacks to > 1/16".
I build the temporary framing and installed double checking those for center alignment and level. The tip of the shelf's fit nicely but for the heck of it I set up the laser again and after getting it back on center line with the molds I checked the tip of the shelf's and the joint was off to one side almost 3/16" so a minor for/aft adjustment to the starboard shelf and it fit perfectly.
I have a question about the stem, making it out of LVL, which way would you orient the ply's, side to side so the bow eye bolt thru the all ply's of the LVL or for/aft ? My gut feeling is thru all the plys with the bow eye.
Nothing today accomplished, birthday party and a touch of stomach flu has me feeling like doing nothing.
Oh and caught a blunder, the temp framing I made 4" taller and installed and it dawned on me that adding 4" to the stringers before installing will accomplish the same thing so I will pull those off which is no big deal and cut the 4" back off of the temp framing.
some photos to follow, cant figure out how to resize.
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Pics:
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I agree... I think it's better to run the eye bolt through all the plies rather than through edge grain... Although it would work either way. Just use a big washer if going through edge grain.
Brian
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cant figure out how to resize.
Bob if you have an editing program, go to 'resize' or 'crop'. Crop cuts the size of the pic - just eliminates everything outside of that area you want seen. Resize will just make the pic smaller an the file size smaller.
Another way is to look for resize for 'Web' posting - an old feature from those dialup days....
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My middle name should be dumb ass. I did not think about those plies until after I cut.... and If I would have cut to length first before putting the 45 degree cut I would have had a spare, but hey that's what epoxy is for.
Thanks Ed. Just downloaded a image resizer.
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I bought Alaska Yellow Cedar for the rear framing pieces, its rough sawn 2"x5" but beautiful strait grain wood. Is it better to leave it rough for the epoxy to soak in or run it thru a planer / re-saw the sides prior to epoxy coating?
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You are going to run through planer blades if you epoxy first. Cut, shape plane prior to coating with epoxy. The wood will soak up just as much epoxy and fairing will be easy.
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Yes ...Planer blade slice wood cells open instead of smashing them shut like what sanding does. That said, we're splitting hairs here ...I would just size and shape the wood to what you want and coat it, no need to worry about epoxy. It'll stick and work fine :). Because of the above, this is why I prefer cut (skilsaw jig or planer or router) plywood scarf joints over sanded, e.g. belt sander, scarf joints. They're stronger. But other than that, cutting v. sanding is no big deal on the rest of the boat ...and sanded scarf joints are good enough too, but I prefer 'cut' scarf joints anyway.
Brian
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Gougen Bros I read somewhere saying to lightly disc sand at 30 deg to the flow of grain.....
Rips open those cells, it's what I do on hardwood, don't with softer wood, as you say Brian, and i experienced the same, epoxy sticks very well to planned wood.
What makes it stick great is as Brian has in the manual, give the wood soak time in epoxy, till those dull areas look glossy with wet resin, then glass, glue etc...
Love my disc grinder, 125mm - 5" x 16 grit disc's, panel beaters supplies best price here.... Chews through @ 9000 rpm
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On the stem, why line it up to the tip of the shelfs only to plane it off to make side panels fit? If I set the stem back from the tip 1/2" or so I would not have as much wood to remove from the stem.
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Maybe I am over thinking it. I remade the stem so the LVL beam layers are fore/aft so there is a flat spot on front mow but epoxy will fix that.
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Flat spot in the front now, not "mow". darn eyes and fat thumbs!
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How do you know when the stem fits deep enough into the hull? Judging from the outside view which I dont have a pic.
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I will post a pic from the front tonight
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The stem is inset for the side panels so that when they are wrapped around the boat, their outer surfaces will align with the tip of the bottom panel assembly. Lots of ways to skin the cat... if you don't inset the stem, then you'll have to plane off the outer layers of plywood at the bow instead.
As far as how deep is deep enough for the stem fitting into the bottom panel assembly, I'd say it needs to go a few inches into the bottom panels as you've shown. Deeper and you'd have to trim the stem to fit the bottom. Less deep and you have a weaker tie between the bottom and side panels at the bow. 'About right' is about right... And BTW, it's not a bad idea to blend the end of the stem smoothly into the bottom panel assembly by filling with epoxy. Remember that for bow stem and transom corners, that I recommend the use of milled glass fiber in your epoxy mixture for increased strength.
Brian
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It is the inset of the stem I am questioning (not how deep into the bottom panel).
1. Where the tip of the stem and tip of the shelves meet, you have to plane the leading edge, then the side of the stem and first 6" of shelves. What I anticipate is planing back a fair amount to get the shelves (and stem) beveled for good side panel fit. Why not leave the tip of the shelves proud by 1/2" as it seems less planing would be required.
2. Inset the stem into the bottom panel, I have removed quite a bit of wood on the stem to inset the stem but when eye balling the side panel fit to the stem I not sure what I am aiming for. I will take a couple pics when I get home and post.
I have searched for some pics of the stem here and the other sight but no closeup of the fitted stem.
Progress has been slow, side tracked again, go shrimping, lets go for ling cod and halibut, I will get he stem fitted then onto the transom then sides. Oh no razor clamming is open again...
Its tough sometimes making sacrifices when the weather is nice and fishing is good, not too much of a concern the rest of the year except when hunting time comes. haha.
Oh ya the working for a living thing!
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It still looks like I should inset the stem into the bottom panels more and my chines might be a little proud in the front so I may have to trim those a bit.
I cannot figure out how to post pics in order wit comments between.
The first pic is of my chines, do you think I should cut them back a bit?
Second pic shows a level on the side of the bow stem, looks like lots to trim which is why I think I should pull the stem back a bit.
Third and fourth pic shows a scrap piece of 3/8" plywood sitting flush on the stem side.
The fifth pic I am holding the scrap piece out a bit which is the fit I think I should be shooting for.
My fillet on the inside of the bow is big which is probably why I am trimming so much off of the stem.
Any advice for me?
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I think that perhaps you are over thinking this. I (if I recall correctly, I am getting older 😜, brought mine to a point. If you will recall, the manual said to outline the cut in felt pen and then leave it wild or full width. When it came time to trim it, I used a skill saw because you get a more fair curve than with a jig saw. You will have to notch your bow stem until you can get a piece of scrap or a four foot level to plane out with the chines, shelves and bow stem. Peanut butter will be your friend in the end, the main purpose of the bow stem is to hold the sides in place while gluing, so it really needs to plane out with all of the other parts & pieces.
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Rbob,
Not sure if this will help or not but here are a few shots of my bow stem during preliminary fitup, before it is epoxied. The stem fit down into the fairbody 20".
I want a slight lip of chine at the prow and don't intend on installing a keel strake.
In your case, I think you can sand it down fair once you have the sides on as Brian instructs in the manual You need not worry about sanding through the bottom panels a little which is the point of the beefy bow stem and big fillet in that area. A mini grinder would probably work nice for you in that endeavor.
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more pics...
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last pic
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Those pictures are worth a thousand words! Especially Stem4! Thanks BobC !
Cannon, trimming the chines deal, mine was a kit from Westcoat Boatworks and the chines were trimmed already.
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BobC, that is like a furniture joint! Very pretty, too bad it gets covered up!
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I know... I think that's the most impressive fitting of a stem to the boat that I've seen! That's why I believe in using thick paint ...it hides a thousand sins and nobody can see the handiwork underneath ::) :o ;D
Brian
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I am afraid to post a pic of the joint I did, at least a 1/4" gap everywhere ! Took me awhile, that big fillet I did on the V caused me lots of trial fit and fits.
BobC how did you do it?
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Aww, shucks guys. I probably have 2-3x more hours in it than yours and it won't work any different than your 1/4" gap fitting. Looks aren't everything. You'll all be fishing while I'm still planning and sanding and as Cannon said it all gets covered up. :(
I'm guessing by the time I get to doing the cabin, and closer to launching, there will be a lot more epoxy in the joints... ;D I have been blessed to have some nice material to work with as well which always helps.
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Here's that joint with big fillet.
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and then another with first layer of glass.
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Im late to this party and I didn't build a GA. This is a common area of issue. I built and had almost the same picture as yours with the plywood so far off the stem. I didn't want to do all that work insetting the stem into the bow and I knew this ahead of time. When the time came, I simply got out my can of PL construction adhesive, added a 1/2 inch piece of plywood glued to the stem and screwed in where they would not get in the way. A couple hours later I planed the plywood to get the perfect fit. Its not milled glass fiber but Im really not concerned that the plywood will ever come apart from the stem. It was very simple and quick. My other issue was that My side panels were cut for a 26 foot boat and then I stretched to 27 ft so I had to add a piece later on that wasn't scarfed, just glassed in.
In the end the planer and then 50 grit paper cleaned it all up perfectly nice for my workboat skiff.
I know of several east coast boat builders doing the GA. I think it will make a perfect offshore canyon fisher in nice to moderate conditions where you don't have to spend 900 in fuel like my last trip on a 31 contender with twin 250 HPS. I fished Tuesday in the canyon and we went 120 miles out and back on 40 gallons.
heres some pics of what I did just for another angle on this.
more difficult for me was bending the 3/8 ply and getting good contact. I used boards and straps to apply pressure where ordinary screws wouldn't hold it. I also drilled LOTS of holes to make sure I got squeeze out and was sure I had full contact.
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That's another option I did not think about, I may end up going that way. My fillet on the inside is huge causing me to remove much of the stem to get a good fit.
Thanks!
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Well I got a better fit after removing the hump in the fillet. Spent a lot of time fitting the other stem I made but it looks much better: Then I got side tracked shrimping then a return trip to search for lost shrimp pot. I will be fishing 3 days starting Thusrday.
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I have a question on the transom, the manual says:
"Fiberglass the forward and top faces (but not the lower and back faces) of
the LVL pieces with 10- to 12-ounce biaxial fiberglass, optionally glassing
with 10-ounce woven fiberglass wet-on-wet to avoid having to fair the
biaxial after curing.
Is this done before laminating the lvl to the plywood transom?
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I have a question on the transom, the manual says:
"Fiberglass the forward and top faces (but not the lower and back faces) of
the LVL pieces with 10- to 12-ounce biaxial fiberglass, optionally glassing
with 10-ounce woven fiberglass wet-on-wet to avoid having to fair the
biaxial after curing.
Is this done before laminating the lvl to the plywood transom?
To put this in context, the quote above refers to the LVL motor board on the transom, not the LVL stringers....
The instructions refer to glassing the LVL motor boards ('beams' in the drawing) prior to gluing them onto the transom. You will glass over the motor cut-out later, e.g. glass will overlap onto the aft face of the transom and onto the f'w'd face of the motor board.
Somewhat obviously, you could actually glass these in any order, and could even glass over the top of the motor cut-out when you glass the motor boards if you want extra glass there... not necessary though. Another option is to put the biax on the motor boards after they've been glued onto the transom and cured, nails/screws removed as necessary. This would allow you to fillet any gaps between the upper and lower motor boards and to transition any difference in height (with thickened epoxy) between the lower doublers and the motor boards ...then glass over the hole thing smoothly, and add 10-oz wet-on-wet and almost totally avoid fairing on the transom. The main thing is to a) have that biax on the motor boards, and b) have the minimum number of ounces on the transom, inside and out.
Brian
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I will glass afterwards then, probably get wider biaxial cloth so I can cover the LVL motor mount boards with 1 piece.
Progress has been slow lately but I am not in a race so I will keep on keeping on.
Thanks again Brian!
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I will glass afterwards then, probably get wider biaxial cloth so I can cover the LVL motor mount boards with 1 piece.
Progress has been slow lately but I am not in a race so I will keep on keeping on.
Thanks again Brian!
That'll work fine...
Just try to consistently make a little progress each day or week, and it WILL get done...
Brian
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Installed the stem and laminated the transom last night, the transom took a lot more epoxy than I anticipated which was 3 batches but got it done.
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That transom's heavy, isn't it?! :o ;D
Brian
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The transom is hernia heavy, good thing I didn't get one I would send Brian the bill😝
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I had help turning over the transom! Tonight I put in the doubler's on the transom and put some biax on the stem/shelf fillet, I was going to put some glass over the biax but ran out of epoxy and decided good enough.
Up next will be mounting the transom and then building and pre-glassing the side panels before installing them.
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...I should look up the transom in the CG spreadsheet for the GA and then post how much it weighs ...it's no piker though. The stringers are heavy, as is the bottom panel assembly, and of course turning the boat over. Everything else is reasonably light and easier to handle... Beer and pizza and friends solves much...
Brian
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When do I drill transom for drain plug, now or after transom install?
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When do I drill transom for drain plug, now or after transom install?
I like to drill it after the boat is upright, before the decks go in.... and do it from inside the boat. Easy to make close to hull that way, for better drainage... And I think I mention in the manual, that I like to build a fiberglass tube that has an inside diameter (15/16"?) sized for a standard boat drain plug, then I drill an oversize hole through the transom and epoxy the drain tube into place (flush with the inside, cut flush after curing on the outside). And I like to give the drain plug a slight downward angle to a) help drain the boat, and b) provides a little extra room on the inside for you to tighten the drain plug (which goes from inside towards the outside ...unless you want to lose it while underway ...keep spares onboard).
Brian
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Sounds great and I waz in a hurry so I drilled it, I will make a tube like you mentioned with wax paper and broom handle and epoxy that in a oversized hole I made.
Thanks Brian !
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Sounds great and I waz in a hurry so I drilled it, I will make a tube like you mentioned with wax paper and broom handle and epoxy that in a oversized hole I made.
Thanks Brian !
Everything on the boat is something that can be fixed or done over again ...I cut a cabin door out too large one time, and patched in a specially-fit piece of plywood to narrow the door back down ...and I've filled and re-drilled lots of things. No problem. When the paint was on the boat, nobody could tell what I did and only friends knew... haha...
Brian
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Just epoxied the transom to the bottom tonite. The transom is no joke. I am glad I have manhandled it for the last time. I'm glad it fit well. Mine was built using Fir. I imagine Meranti would be beyond the pale for one man assembly without some real innovation. :D
It's funny, I was just thinking about when to do the drain plug. I think I am going to wait as well so as brian says, I can get it as close to the bottom of the bilge as possible.
That stem connection looks real nice Rbob. Looks like you are making good use of LVL material. She's gonna be a stout craft when you are done.
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Looking good! No more tossing that transom around... heh heh...
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I got my transom fitted last night, was a little more involved as I added 4" to the stringers which I cut the raised section on a 14 degree angle to match up to the inside of the transom. I had to grind back about 6" of fillet on the on the hull center seam to mount the transom which sucked.
Now I have to raise up the bottom and sand upside down where the stringers will glue to the bottom, and sides of the stringers where the fillet will go. It would have been a lot easier while the hull was upright and the stringers were still on the bench. I have to start thinking more about hindsight.
The transom fit great with only a gap at the top of the stringers. I will post some pics in a bit.
BobC, Looks like we are real close on our builds and I enjoy watching your progress.
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Maybe by accident but I did not need braces to set/hold the transom angle, since I had cut the 4" raised portion of the stringers at 14 degrees to fit against the inside of the transom and not thru the transom, the transom the angle is adjusted by bumping the stringers forward or aft-ward. I used a digital angle gauge, zero it on the vertical temp framing and set each side to 14 exactly. I double checked this by zero the gauge on the building jig and then checking transom and 76 degrees confirms a perfect angle. I meticulously leveled the building jig with a laser also.
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Brian,
I am doing a transom modification, it will be an extended transom. I used the transom cutout that I had and raised the upper doubler to match the 4" raised sides, just had to add a backing to that to screw the shelves into. Once the boat is flipped and the rear bulkheads for the fish box is built I can do a final cut on the transom. I will add a small door to access the extended transom.
I know it may not be as seaworthy but I like it:
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That'll work fine. Keep in mind that the boat tapers from amidships aft, so the aft transom will be a little narrower than the primary transom. Not much, but something you may want to eyeball with a couple of battens taped on the hull sides etc.
Brian
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That is what I originally going to do, but my shop is just too short. Dang the luck!
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That is what I originally going to do, but my shop is just too short. Dang the luck!
I'm designing in something similar on the 16' skiff that I'm working on...and will have a Euro style transom. I'll build one for myself and put an outboard jet on it ...
Brian
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Spent ast night double checking all measurements. The stringers are not perfectly strait so I added 32" spreaders between the stringers and then measured to the outer chines where I put the spreaders. It was off S much as 1/2" so I added 2x4's to the chines of equal length to get the stringers perfectly in line. I am glad I spent the time so raising the hull to drill, sand and epoxy will be a no brainer, lower it back down in the saddles I made and everything will be in alignment. I also braced the stem so it wont move after making sre it was plumb.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160623/1874982c389af55577bb90b9a488db99.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160623/1874982c389af55577bb90b9a488db99.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160623/aa309431ae338943eeff20c63d597653.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160623/fcd846231417e9c12a1357475705d640.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160623/ede923ca9597955bfbc13ea41bde0979.jpg)
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I will be cutting off the stringers tonight, but what/when is the best way to cut the bottom flush to the transom?
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I will be cutting off the stringers tonight, but what/when is the best way to cut the bottom flush to the transom?
It takes a few minutes, but I like to go ahead and glue the transom in place, then use a japanese pull saw (held tight against the outer face of the transom) and cut from one side to the other - This makes the end of the bottom panel assembly match the angle of the transom. I figure this is faster than filling/fixing goofs from jig saws and sanders later...
Brian
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That is what I will do.
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I used a skil saw to make the major cuts and finished them off with the pull saw. Then I ran a router around the perimeter with a 3/4 radius. Turned out great!
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Cannon,
Do you have a launch date or expected date? You must be really close.
Still sizing up trailers, could you get me the bow eye to transom measurement when your not building furniture ot trying to finish that man last minute details?
No hurry for me.
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Bob,
Not sure I understand your question???
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From this pic it would be measurement "B" or A depending on where the winch stand/roller is.
Just trying to look ahead, all the 2 axle trailers I see are short.
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Bob,
That was a concern right up to the day I put the boat on the trailer! Believe me when I say unknown's bug the heck out of me and that was a doozie. I will make an attempt to get you the info you need later today.
I will tell you that the more important measurement is where the dead rise of the bow is in relation to the cross brace (c) in the front of the trailer. Too close and the bouce of the boat on the trailer will bang the keel into the cross bar. To my way of thinking, that is more important than the overall length.
The winch post can be adjusted for height and for setback. I used pressure treated 4x6 for the bunks which added to the complexity of height and length. I adjusted both after the boat was on the trailer. The reason I mentioned the cross piece is because I initially moved the winch stand too far forward. I had wanted to minimize the amount the boat hung off the stern, but by doing so I pulled the hull too far forward. A simple fix; I just need to pull the boat to the rear of the trailer but initially it wasn't on my radar.(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160626/30875c8ad3e3543b4e5c214e32ad0bd2.jpg)
I just need to move the hull back six inches. I believe you can see the paint line where the winch post was originally located.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160626/4e3152e2596f6bf0555baa933f3f9c03.jpg)
I had originally planned on cutting the ends off depending on how far forward the keel sat in relation to the winch stand. Turned out that they were the ideal length.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160626/747f154f790e66ecad3fecf7f25d3b7c.jpg)
I had initially wanted the transom as close to the rear of the trailer as possible because the bunks cantilever about two feet past the cross member.
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I coated the gluing services yesterday morning when I got up this morning and started mixing batches of epoxy glue the bottom down.
I want to glue the transom in first not just Tackitt I figured what the heck just do it right now. I bought some pastry bags and mannose things are slick you can stick it right in between the stringer and the transom and just pump it and don't start coming out the backside.
It took 4 1/2 batches and using the pasty bags made it easy. Jump on top and screwed it down. Then do the clean up.
I went ahead and filled in me transom drain, I will re drill once it is flipped.
It went well and I am so happy that part is done.
Pics below in no particular orded:
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Nice work! Looks like it came together very well! You'll be flipping it soon!
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Thats the last time I will use Siri!
"Mannose" means: man those.
You only have to squeeze the pastry bag until the epoxy oozes out not pump it!
It was late and I was tired, not from the boat which was done by noon but limbing trees with chainsaw until 8:00 last night, thats my excuse!
Cannon,
I that boat looks big even on a 3 axle trailer!
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Bob,
It is all about perspective:)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160628/23ea9581ea03fc414a3055f2d157b46b.jpg)
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I still am amazed how big they are, sure hope it fits in my new shop.
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Big == GOOD!
That's one mean fishin' machine! Can't wait to someday see it in person...
Brian
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It won't fit in this shop without the radar, that is why I went ahead and mounted the radar so high. It is still under 14' though...
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Is this a lot of squeeze out:
1 quart, seems like a lot.
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Seems to me like way overkill, seldom had more than a Dixie cup...
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Is this a lot of squeeze out:
1 quart, seems like a lot.
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Yep, lots of squeeze out. Reminds me of the movie National Lampoons Xmas vacation. "Lots of sap" scene. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJxJakcwBOM
LOL. Lots of parallels there including his hands sticking to the book pages that night. I can relate. I'm sitting here trying to get some epoxy off my glasses as I write this. Epoxy seems to make its way into the darnedest places.
I believe Renn had the best answer to the problem. Have plenty of other parts and pieces lined up that need some epoxy so you can use the leftover squeeze out, like filling screw holes etc. so it doesn't all go to waste.
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My favorite scene was the dumping of the holding tank...
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From this pic it would be measurement "B" or A depending on where the winch stand/roller is.
Just trying to look ahead, all the 2 axle trailers I see are short.
The measurement from the rear of the bunks to the cross member is 23' 8"
The measurement from the rear of the bunks to the bumper wheel of the winch is 25, 10". That is with the boat moved back four inches and the winch moved back as well to give me clearance between the cross member and the keel.
Sorry it took me so long to get back to you on this, I suffer from CRS...
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Thanks Cannon, and I appreciate you taking the time to do it when you should be spending your time finishing your boat!
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I suffer from CRS too!
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I thought about it, in between phone calls I ran out and measured. Took all of five minutes. To be quite honest, it was one of those things that bugged me right up till I loaded the boat on the trailer. I wish I had asked way back then.
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Not much progress lately but I did get the front second layer bow on yesterday, just one side. (http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160808/6b55c75e17eed9d1bbdbb40cd30bf155.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160808/89c2654c39165e9e22b4533afdcd7658.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160808/da6639da7c09c39a1c17ce5325c544bb.jpg)
The gap between the outer panel and chine was a little wider than I wanted at the front but I will fill it in with epoxy. I had clamped a block at mid panel to align to, I will pay more attention on the other side.
At the rate I am going I will be lucky to flip it in September. I am not in rush yet and if it takes more than a year so be it.
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Hey ...It's better to have a gap to fill than a big piece of wood that has LOTSA screws that has to be taken off and trimmed, or trimmed while on the boat. Filling gaps is a way of life for s-n-g boat builders and it's better to have a gap than a wood-on-wood hard spot. The fish will never notice... :D
Brian
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They will on my boat, just after coming over the side, getting their throat cut and ending upside down in the bleed bucket...
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They will on my boat, just after coming over the side, getting their throat cut and ending upside down in the bleed bucket...
I landed a 44# Chinook in Puget Sound once, fishing out of a friend's boat. He was VERY particular about his boat, wanting every drop of fish blood accounted for and cleaned up... NO bleeding fish into the drywell or on the deck, ALWAYS bleed the fish into a 5-gal bucket and then into the cooler, and wash out that bucket pronto. Well, that 44-pounder was way too long for that bucket, and right after I sliced the gills on one side (head down in the bucket), it gave one last kick and I lost my grip ...that darn fish flopped all over the deck, squirting blood everywhere... boy was he pissed. And to put the icing on the cake, we'd spent about 12 hours fishing, zero hook-ups, and were just turning back when I caught that fish (104' down on a #603 Tomic) ...he didn't catch diddly and his boat was a raving mess, and his 7 year old kid that was with us kept repeating all of the above ..."Hey Dad? You didn't catch any fish!". I just kept quiet all the way back ..took my fish home and minded my own business... ;D
bd
PS: Oh yeah ...he had also gouged the gelcoat on his boat that morning because we had put in at Freshwater Bay, launching off the beach, and his boat snagged a submerged rock on the way out... :-\ All in all, a great day for all!
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I learned a long time ago, fishing is hard on a boat. The first scratch is going to be one of many! Oh and I am real pleased with the Duralux paint. It hardened up and has proven to be quite durable!
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Well, its going slow but I did catch a lot of prawns yesterday! I got the second layer on the other side and I did not have a big of gap at the chine but had to add a little at the keel side, and filled the gap at the chine both sides.
So when flattening out the keel 3/4" for the bottom strake (front part) I imagine gradually tapering it to where it will the strake will sit on top of the keel the rest of the way back? questioning myself...
Did a little today after granddaughters soccer practice, The scarfs that were stepped (Kit) sucked, every one them as the staggered cut would not allow the 2 panels to sit flush. I ended up stacking all 8 side pieces and re-scarfing with a power planer and I wish I would have done it on the previous scarfs which I tried to hand plane each step to get it to fit..
Those screw holes I have to fill on the bow's second layer, should I drill them out (from outside) then fill? or just fill?
I read that some people scarf a whole stack which I may want to try. Suggestions on that?
I have one one forward panel glued tonight, I can put plastic down and do the next one on top of that and if I had more room I could lay out all 6 pieces I have left and pre-coat the scarfs then start laying them up with glue, plastic stack more on top etc. Maybe too much to try all at once.
Maybe just one at a time, remove plastic and scrape it flush and go ahead and put the cloth/epoxy on before moving on to next piece.
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It's funny, but scarfing is one of the big stumbling blocks for first time builders. I obsessed over it right up to the day I did it. In reality it is a simple process and easily accomplished. The only thing I would stress is that you use a sheet of 3/4 ply for a base. It would be even better with a couple of 2x4's screwed in flat to keep the base from flexing down. Other than that, it goes quickly. I used a straight edge both ways to be sure I didn't have humps or dips.
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Those screw holes ....First, make the wood surface smooth and free of loose stuff, e.g. take the screws back out after the 2 layers are cured together, then remove any wood splinters, glass, etc. Then I sweep, then shopvac each screw hole. I fill the holes with epoxy that's thickened with fairing compound (phenolic microballons or glass microballoons plus silica). I fill the holes to the point that there is a 'bump' of epoxy above flush. Trying to scrape off excess creates a dent over the screw hole that has to be filled again later. If you leave the fill epoxy bumped up above the surface, then you can scrape it flush with a carbide scraper after it's cured. I find that this method results in a smoother, nicer, surface. It's how I fill all screw holes...
You'll want to fill on the inside and outside. The inside of the hull is already glassed at this point, and that's fine. Just fill, cure, scrape as described and put a finish coat or two of epoxy over the filled holes and call it good. On the outside, it'll all get glassed over when you glass the bottom assembly.
Brian
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That will be easy.
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Found a soft spot on the plywood when I was blowing out the holes and putting leftover resin on from the scarf. Glad I found it
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I made a slice with the utility knife and was just going to put the resin through the crack but I ended up drilling holes all over to make sure I got all the separation filled
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Yup... lots of today's plywood has voids in it. They aren't always detected when the grading is going on at the mill. Just fill 'er up... and keep going!
Brian
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Looking good Rob. Slow but steady wins the race... I had that same gap at the chine on my second bow layer. I think it is required ;)... No problems filled with thickened Epoxy and rolled on.
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Got the rear side members installed, faired the bowstem and 10' or so of the shelves and some of the angled blocks installed.
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That's a good idea, supporting the stringers in front of the transom with temporary framing ...takes a load off the transom and the ends of the shelves.
Looking great! You'll have it upright before you know it!
Brian
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Thanks to you, just following instructions for the most part.
Just need to temp mount the sides, mark and cut.
Would you glass the inner side panels before trimming to fit?
I guess I should go fishing this weekend and think about it.
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Brian,
On the use of nylon taffeta in place of Peel-Ply I can find polyester taffeta on ebay for $1 a yard. Does it matter? I also see stretch type so more thoughts to ponder for me.
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1. Taffeta ...I'm betting you can use either nylon or polyester, but I'd test the polyester first. I know the nylon works. I would avoid stretchy material.
2. Glassing before installing side panels? You can always glass the interior face of a concave surface first ...but I would likely stop the glass just short of the region that will be planed (etc) down for the scarf joint, then glass over the scarf joint after it's cured and faired.
Brian
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I got 1 side installed and the other side cut out and glassed, almost I ran out of epoxy was about 3 feet to go on the aft panel.
Ran out of aeromarine so i trimmed the cloth and will mix up Ebond epoxy tonight
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I did not think about this until now but I probably could've just mixed up the E Bond and spread it right into the aeromarine and been done with it
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Installing the sides was easy for me. I added cantilever supports for both sides. The support pieces were just pieces of plywood that I screwed into the building Jig and clamp to the shelves with the one and a half inch spacer between the support and the shelf.
At the bow area I slid an 8 foot 2 x 4 under the shelves and clamp to the shelves with the spacer block between the shelves and 2x4.
When I trimmed The bottom portion of the sides I left the tabs where they sit on the support then when I went to epoxy the side on I just simply set them on the supports and screwed the sides on.
Also for supprt at the bow area I cut 4x4's to fit under shelves.
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Side install support
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Those supports are a great idea! When siding houses and what not, we do similar things... not sure why I didn't think of that for the boat!
Brian
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Here's a close-up of the tabs I left on the side panels with the witness marks
I got the right side on after work last night finished up about 1130 last night
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Looks great! And BIG... ;D
Thanks for sharing your side-hanging techniques. I'm going to be updating the manual soon and will likely include this idea in there to make the (cumbersome) side-hanging process easier....
Brian
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When I did the 1st aft side I set it on the supports and did the best I could for marking the inside chine but the 2x4's mounted on top of the hull do not let the side panel sit flush at the top edge and gave me a little grief after cutting it out, I had to shim the panel up about 1/2" to get a good fit.
I hope that made sense!
When I hung the second aft panel on other side I decided to hang the side panel from a screw mounted at the top of the panel at mid point into a brace and lined up the top of the panel with the chine, temporarily screwed the aft panel on then marked inside for cut. After marking and cutting I reinstalled the cantilever supports for the aft panel, the cut was perfect. Since this aft panel was marked and trimmed without the supports there was no tab to hold it at the perfect height like the forward panel. I could have reinstalled the aft panel, installed supports and shimmed for perfect fit but I did not, but was still very easy. I set the panel on the supports with the scarf joint lined up where I wanted it (after applying epoxy) and put the first screw in the top of the transom after lining up perfectly with rear chine ( just lifted up the rear) then lifted up the panel at the front scarf to line up with chine seam and put another screw in. On the supports the panel is stable, it sits out about 3" from the epoxy and rests against the chine and lifting it 3/4" is easy.
With 1-1/2" spacer under the cantilever support and the bottom panel trimmed + 3/4" I could have just set a scrap piece of 3/4" on the support and been fine that way. Those little scrap pieces of 1/2" I screwed to the support worked well, some out 6" and some close as needed for good fit and put some witness marks on made an easy install.
Tired and rambling on!
I applaud you and those who can write so someone else can understand / make sense of the worlds. I had to re-read/change my rambling probably 10 times and still.... question what the hell am I saying, haha.
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Yeah ...those 2x4s can get in the way if too close to the outer edge of the chine. Not sure what to do about that ...except maybe rough cut first so there is no tall upper plywood edge to conflict with the 2x4? Otherwise, you would have to lower the lower supports that carry the side panels ... or screw blocks along the top edge of the ply to 'hang' on the edge of the chine while marking. Dunno ...lots of ways to skin the cat. BUT it's very important to give those chines a straight run aft, so there's not much you can do about getting those 2x4s out of the way....
Brian
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My scarf did not turn out great on this side, I reused the plywood to clamp the scarf together (same screw holes) and they did not tighten down enough, I should have put a few more screws to tighten it up but.... late and tired thinking it would be fine.
Oh well, just a little more fairing on that side. By the time I get done I will be an expert.
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My scarf did not turn out great on this side, I reused the plywood to clamp the scarf together (same screw holes) and they did not tighten down enough, I should have put a few more screws to tighten it up but.... late and tired thinking it would be fine.
Oh well, just a little more fairing on that side. By the time I get done I will be an expert.
Scrape down the high spots before fairing it in, and use a longboard to sand diagonally up, diagonally down, horizontally, and vertically ...fill, repeat. Doesn't take long and you won't miss the flat spots and uglies. Don't trust the exterior glassing to hide all your sins... do the fairing before glassing if you accidentally produced a "decorative" scarf :)
Brian
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You are going to like/love your GA! After today, I am a total believer!!! The GA can handle rough water with ease. In most boats, the offshore conditions would have scared me spittless. Never once felt we were in danger and it was a very mean ocean!
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I filled the chine seam and the bow seam, still need to fillet and glass the inner shelf. It sucks with limited time to work on it, had to sand the inner shelf and side again since I did not get back on it soon enough that adds a lot of extra work...
Going to fillet and glass the inner shelf tonight then on to glassing the exterior seams which should I plan on doing it wet on wet this coming weekend.
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You are going to like/love your GA! After today, I am a total believer!!! The GA can handle rough water with ease. In most boats, the offshore conditions would have scared me spittless. Never once felt we were in danger and it was a very mean ocean!
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Good to hear, hopefully it calms down so you can get back out!
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Even during 'good weather', getting out in Oregon is surprisingly challenging... bar closed more than you'd expect.
bd
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I have a commercial license, but more than not, I'd rather sit in port than wish I hadn't gone across the bar when its restricted.
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Just so there is no confusion, I do have a commercial fishing license, not a six pack. I have a hard time babysitting people so I went this route. I love to fish, and once I filled my freezer and canned enough for the winter, I still like to go! I have a short list of customers who subsidize my fishing habit which helps with fuel, insurance and such. The reason I'm stating this outright is because on the other board, a certain obnoxious person essentially called me a liar.
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What an A-hole!
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Question on the aux spray rail,
"The auxiliary spray rails are installed along the forward chine so that they
effectively widen the chine flat in this region."
If the chines are rounded over, what do I line the aux spray rails to? Flush with the bottom of chine and back-fill the radius or drop them down a bit (away from waterline) ?
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Align with upper side of the chine radius, otherwise you'd have fill work to do ...and the purpose is to knock down spray. It'll do that fine when installed as shown below:
(http://glacierboats.com/images/chine.jpg)
Brian
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I was concerned about this when I got to this point. I did just as Brian has illustrated and they work great.
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That picture is worth a thousand bucks!
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That picture is worth a thousand bucks!
;D
I like how you can use a square in cross-section strip of wood, no fancy bevels or fitting, and you get a spray rail that angles downward just as you want... It doesn't just deflect spray, it throws it downward.
Brian
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I applied the fillet and 4" 9oz glass to the inner shelf/side joint last night, it was surprisingly easy and went without a hitch. I pre-wet the joint with ebond 1285/1285 with 15 seconds in the microwave to hurry it up a bit, just brushed it on with a chip brush that I trimmed shorter and just brushed maybe 1" on both sides of the joint, sides and shelf were already glassed, sanded and cleaned.
I used disposable pasty bags (cheap and way better than a ziploc bag) for the fillet mixture and only mixed 2 batch's. Applied a full length bead and follow up with plastic spoon and scraped off the waste which was not much, filled screw holes with the leftover. I love those pastry bags!
After dinner I went back at it. Not sure how everyone else applied this but I used the glassing box to pre-wet the glass and cut 6 - 5' lengths of glass and pre-wet 2 stacks of 3 glass with ebond 1285/1289 let it soak then rolled it with a bubble roller and squeegeed off excess, then I slid the glassing box under the boat and put the glass on with nitrile gloves to smooth it into the fillet which was fairly firm still. then one more smaller batch of epoxy and 4.5 5' pieces.
The ebond 1289 gave me lots of open time to work the glass and I never felt rushed and it layed down great, and it had the right amount of resin in it, no dry spots and not floating.
Will be glassing the exterior seams this weekend, just have to round over seams. Hopefully will have time to pre-coat the sides and front section of bow and do some fairing in preparation exterior glassing.
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By the time you finish just the hull itself, you're an expert at epoxy and glass...
Brian
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Brian,
Glassing the inner and outer chine seams, reading the construction manual:
"When you tape the inner and outer chine seams, use a nice fillet on the inner seam and don’t overlap the first or second layers of glass on the two seams, preferring instead to have them meet edge to edge so you maintain the flatness of the chine flats."
I am picturing (in my mind) 2 rows of of 4" 9oz tape side by side with edges touching (center of chine) running full length of chine, then 2 rows of 6" biax butted in the same manor with 1 piece 16" wide or so covering both previous layers.
Did I get that right?
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Not as good as I thought, a few spots need attention:
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Looks fine and typical to me ...those hollows can be cut out with a razor blade and glassed over ...but in your case, I'd either make a tiny hole on each end and fill with epoxy, or just slice them out and pretend they weren't there. They aren't big enough to be a structural issue. My biggest concern is that hollow spots like those can hold water. I feel better if there are no hidden pockets to hold water and whatever might grow in it...
Scrape the edges of glass with a carbide scraper to taper, and then lightly sand and coat it all with epoxy.
Brian
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Confused again,
How to end inner and outer chine seams at transom? Transom will get 3 layers on the exterior seam and the chine seam intersects how? Should I stagger how then end at the transom?
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I suspect you're over thinking it a bit. The tape on the chine seams just run right to the end the chines at the transom. Later, you will put the tape on the transom corners, inside and out, and that tape will go right on over any glass that's on the chine seams... and no, you will not be able to somehow overlap or stop edge-to-edge the various layers of glass to make all things perfectly flat ...you will take a wide blade or square trowel and fair it in, just like tapering in high spots when doing dry wall tape. In the end, when the boat is painted, all will appear perfectly flat to the naked eye ...it'll look perfect. I hope this is clear ..but words aren't worth diddly compared to pictures. I just don't happen to have pictures of the chines v. transom joints and glass. Maybe someone else here does? In any case, it'll all work out as you go. For now, the chine fiberglass goes right to the end of the chine seams, and don't worry too much about funny overlaps at the bow or transom. You'll fair it in later and it'll turn out great :)
Brian
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Ok, got it no pics needed. Just one more question.
When flattening for the keel strake, wish I had a picture of that. The keel past the knee still seems pretty round for a keel strake to sit upon.
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Ok, got it no pics needed. Just one more question.
When flattening for the keel strake, wish I had a picture of that. The keel past the knee still seems pretty round for a keel strake to sit upon.
You mean making a flat along the keel from the bow tip on down, so that the keel strake has a flat surface to land on? The 3/4" wide flat only exists from the tip of the bow down to just where the bow 'knee' (actually called the forefoot of the hull) meets the keel under the boat. The flat just makes it easier to install the strake, so it won't tend to wander off to one side of the boat or the other. The 3/4" wide flat is first planed into the bottom panels (see p. 88, part 1 of the construction manual), then later on the 3/4" wide flat is planed from the bottom panels up to the tip of the bow (see p. 103, part 1 of the construction manual). I don't have pictures, but if you look at the drawing on p. 88 and imagine a horizontal line intersecting the bow point (shown in cross section), you'll get the idea.
I don't think you were, but if you were perhaps referring to the straightening of the keel along the aft half of the boat prior to building the keel seam, that's shown in drawing #006ca.
Ask more questions if you need to ...or if you would like a sketch from me or anything, just ask :)
Brian
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I decided to fill all the holes and some fairing during the week, and glassing of the seams this weekend, then fair in the seams. If goes well maybe get the hull glassed (Wishful thinking).
I went ahead and marked out the spray rails, I could not find a good batten so I used 2" masking tape ($$ 3m yellow). It is pretty stiff tape compared to the blue painters tape but worked well for this. Just another way to skin a cat.
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I've made my own battens before, using wood trim strips from Home Depot... Couldn't find square cross section ones, so bought rectangular cross section ones instead. I ran them through the table saw, then glued them end to end using a 'cheap-n-easy' scarf cut from my chop saw. I had 24' long battens at one time... worked great. Not too much demand in stores for really long thin strips of wood!
bd
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Been reading the manual again, I cant find when to glass the exterior transom and if you use biaxial.
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Been reading the manual again, I cant find when to glass the exterior transom and if you use biaxial.
You're right ...I don't see that either! (sorry)
Use plain woven fiberglass cloth throughout. The manual tells you what weights (I'd go 10 oz on the bottom, 6 to 10 oz on the sides and transom, your choice). The order of glassing is as follows:
1. Glass the side panels, allowing glass to overlap onto (or even past) the chine (or clear past the chine flat onto the bottom panels ...it all works). When cured, trim along the edge of the side panels (a sander w/80-grit held at an angle works great). With a carbide scraper, scrape off any irregularities in the cloth (bumps, threads of glass, points etc) and along the edges of the glass where it overlapped onto other parts of the boat, e.g. overlap onto the opposite side panels at the bow, chines/chine flats/bottom panels (depending on how wide your glass was), and transom. Then with a straight-edge trowel, use epoxy thickened with fairing compound to fill in / taper the edges of the glass to the hull. Repeat for the other side of the boat.
2. Using a similar approach, glass the bottom panels, preferably allowing the glass to overlap onto the sides and past the keel a few inches. If your glass isn't wide enough, then make sure you at least allow it to overlap past the chines and onto the side panels a few inches. If there is a gap between port and starboard glass along the keel, e.g. a long football shape gap, cut out fiberglass cloth to cover the gap, allowing it to overlap he perimeter of the gap a few inches all the way around (fair in the first glass before you apply the patch, then fair in the patch after it's cured).
3. Finally, glass the transom in a similar manner, allowing the glass to overlap onto the sides and bottom of the boat.
When you're done, the entire outside of the hull will be sheathed in glass, all edges trimmed and faired-in as best you can. Note that you'll have to cut slices into the glass at corners to allow first one side, then the other, to overlap and be epoxied in place. Remember my hint of making such slices slightly off from the actual point of the corner and not slicing clear onto the corner ...stop short. This will allow glass to stretch over the corner and protect it.
You'll be coating the boat (fill coats) with epoxy next, keeping in mind your future painting and possibly our graphite-epoxy coating on the bottom, so pay attention to the fairing... better early than late if you want to minimize work and time. You'll fair again prior to painting, to fill hollows etc (long-board sanding), but the fairing that you do along edges and corners and seams/overlaps now will go a long way to help you get a nice finish on the boat later on ...with minimum effort (who wants extra work? Especially if it's sanding, fairing and filling, repeat?).
Not sure if I mentioned it in the manual, but note that you'll likely want to glass the top of the transom, using wide glass tape (8 to 12 inches wide), letting the glass overlap the transom inside and out... nice to have bang protection along that top edge. For that, I'd use 10-oz plain woven glass.
Brian
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Thank you again, seems to be going at a snails pace. I made the 3/4:" wide flat on the bow and rounded the chine seams and a full day of sanding , filling holes etc on Saturday. Today I faired the bow some more. I set up the laser and seems I screwed one side of the bow in a little more, so more sanding and got it looking good. I finished the keel seam with 3 layers of glass, added fillet on front chine and put glass 2 layers on the chine seams (stern) and one 8" wide on the front part. Looked up, 9:00... dangit I wanted to get the seams done this weekend.
Called it a night. I can scrape a little tomorrow night and put the final cloth on the chine seams. Back to work tomorrow so I can rest up for tomorrow night.
I need to retire so I can work on my boat more.
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Sounds like you got a LOT done to me! I tend to mentally form to-do lists that I want to get done on a particular day, then make it about halfway through the list ... always. I get a lot done, but I think I suffer from always expecting to be able to get more done than is feasible... so it goes, especially with boat building.
bd
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So if I scrape the irregularities of the chine seam and fill with micro-baloon fairing compound and do a nice job with troweling it on, can I apply the glass without sanding the fairing compound?
Like the fillets, let it firm up good and go for it?
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When I scrape off the irregularities, I go at it fairly assertively, but also make sure I do not accidentally dig into the fiberglass cloth too. A carbide scraper is also the very best tool at removing drips and runs ...sanding is NOT.
After doing a good job with the fairing compound, I do indeed sand it. It'll never be perfect, so sanding will help smooth things out. You can sand as soon as it's cured enough to not ball up on the sandpaper, e.g. make little hard spots on the sandpaper. It doesn't hurt it to sand too soon, but those little hard spots of fairing compound on the sandpaper make the sand paper less effective. If you see those forming, just give it another day... go work on something else for a bit. Sometimes, if it all looks pretty perfect as-is without having to sand it, I do sand anyway... but often just a hand sanding with 80-grit.
If your epoxy forms any kind of a blush, do also make sure that you wash down the hull with ammonia water before sanding. I just mix up a 5-gal bucket of water w/ammonia and use an old hand towel like a wash cloth to liberally wipe down the hull before sanding ...and a quick wipe after sanding, right before coating again.
Brian
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I used a card scraper for the fine tuning prior to glassing. Worked well! Best though if you do wet on wet whenever you can.
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I used a card scraper for the fine tuning prior to glassing. Worked well! Best though if you do wet on wet whenever you can.
Is that one of those scrapers that looks like a square of sheet metal ...you give it a slight bend and pull it along? I think I saw a guy on TV scraping (like fine planing) the top of a cabinet that he'd made with one of those. Never seen or tried one myself....
Brian
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Card scrapers work, just like the carbide scraper. The sewn edge on the cloth leaves quite a ridge and my wet on wet of biaxial left areas along that edge with bubbles which I opened up with a knife and filled with fairing compound. Maybe not doing it quite right.
Worked till 1:00 am Monday night and threw my clothes in the wash and left my cell phone in my pocket.... son of a bitch probably a $600-700 mistake.. and no backup of my photos or data so another lesson there. Its an I-phone.
Sanded the fairing compound on one side last night will do the other side tonight. My original plan was to put on another layer of glass every night to avoid all the sanding which did not happen so grinding it out as they say.
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Sanding lightly with 80 grit on the epoxied cloth by hand, hope that's good enough, did not want to use a d/a and tear up the glass.
I stopped the chine glass at the transom, did not wrap it onto the transom.
When I tape the transom exterior there will be 60oz of glass on this chine end unless I am supposed to stagger the glass somehow.
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Card scrapers work, just like the carbide scraper. The sewn edge on the cloth leaves quite a ridge and my wet on wet of biaxial left areas along that edge with bubbles which I opened up with a knife and filled with fairing compound. Maybe not doing it quite right.
Worked till 1:00 am Monday night and threw my clothes in the wash and left my cell phone in my pocket.... son of a bitch probably a $600-700 mistake.. and no backup of my photos or data so another lesson there. Its an I-phone.
Sanded the fairing compound on one side last night will do the other side tonight. My original plan was to put on another layer of glass every night to avoid all the sanding which did not happen so grinding it out as they say.
Your phone might still be OK if you had a Samsung S7 like mine... It's waterproof to 2 meters and shock resistant (and so is the case it's in - shock resistant that is). This is WHY I went for this particular phone. It's more "outdoorsman ready" than any other that I looked at.
Brian
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Sanding lightly with 80 grit on the epoxied cloth by hand, hope that's good enough, did not want to use a d/a and tear up the glass.
I stopped the chine glass at the transom, did not wrap it onto the transom.
When I tape the transom exterior there will be 60oz of glass on this chine end unless I am supposed to stagger the glass somehow.
Good ...no need to wrap chine tape (glass) onto the transom.
bd
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I glassed the front chine's with 8" x 10oz cloth and 12" x 12oz biax. I now know why you should put the cloth on top of the biax! It worked good though no extra seams to fair on the chine flats and I used Tape & Drape to catch the epoxy runs which really sucked having to scrape them off when I did the rear chine's, still pissed over that.
I scraped the edges between glassing sessions and scraped the biax and applied a thin coat of fairing compound.
I had problems with wet on wet glass getting void's along the edge of the glass so I decided to slow down a bit more and do one at a time.
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More pics:
I used full length glass from previous chine glass, rolled it up on tubes after wetout and rolled it out, the cloth was easy I was able to pull on the glass hard enough to remove wrinkles from the front after about half of it was on. The biax was more difficult to bend but I just ran it a little higher to help make the bend and trimmed it off at the blue tape.
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Just need to figure out the transom extension so I can finish taping the transom.
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I may have to install risers on the stringers, the extended platform and the rear bulkhead while upside down so I can finish taping the transom.
I just don't see any other way.
I have 2 questions, should I use 1/2" or 3/4" for the rear bulkhead? and should I extend the rear bulkhead down to the fairbody or just stop it at the sole?
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Well ...This is a 2-part question at least.
First, you get a bunch of difference forces piling up on the transom. For example, every time the boat flexes (oil-canning and hogging), the transom corners try to flex as well. Those corners are stress concentraters. To fight that and to prevent breakage of the epoxy fillet and glass at those corners, you want to build strong fillets (see the construction manual on this) ...but you also want a stiff transom. So even though your motor will be out on a hull extension, this boat flex will be occurring regardless. I vote for a strong transom, your 'rear bulkhead' above, and would go 1" thick from the deck up.
The motor, especially on an extension, will throw it's weight and thrust around and try to impart racking (twisting) forces on the transom. Part of that will also impact the transom (your 'rear bulkhead') ...I would go ahead and go with 1" thick down to the bottom panels.
The Proverbial Bottom Line: I vote for a 1" thick transom from sheer to fairbody... :D
For the minor weight increase compared to going lighter, I would encourage building a little stronger as spelled out above for boats like yours that have an extended hull (which I like better than an Armstrong type bracket for example).
Brian
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Sounds good on the 1" rear bulkhead. Looks like I will make bulkhead to sit on deck, just have to leave room to slip the main deck between stringers and rear bulkhead.
- laminate the riser's on the rear stringers
- add the deck on the extended transom, glassing inner surface first
- laminate 1/2" plywood for rear bulkhead, glassing inner surface first
- cut out and install rear bulkhead from stringers up to shelves
- big fillets with mini fibers added and biax and woven glass
- tape the transom exterior per glassing schedule
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Lots of planning and thinking for me, I cant visualize easy access to all seams with rear bulkhead and deck of extended transom in place which I need in place to tape exterior transom / side seam. I need to router a slot in the motor mount beam to accept the rear deck, need to think more.
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You can reach everything prior to the deck pieces going in, but there is no way to glass seams on the bottom of the deck, e.g. where the deck rests on stringers. That's why you make sure that everything under the deck, and the perimeter of the decking itself, is waterproofed with plenty of epoxy (and glass as it seems fit) prior to laying the deck down ...there is only epoxy gluing it in place on the underside, and tape just on the top seams once the decks are in.
bd
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When taping the interior transom to the sides/hull the glass will start and stop at the stringers or lap onto the stringers?
Then when taping the stringers do I need to extend that glass onto the transom?
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When taping the interior transom to the sides/hull the glass will start and stop at the stringers or lap onto the stringers?
Then when taping the stringers do I need to extend that glass onto the transom?
The stringers-to-bottom panel glass does not wrap onto the transom - it's a heavy structure.
The glass tape that goes on the transom-to-bottom panel seam is easiest to install with nearly no overlap onto the stringers, but I like glassing the ends of the stringers to the transom (interior face) as well ...it's easiest to glass the stringers to the transom as a separate step. Hope that clarifies things... sorry if the manual wasn't clear enough on this stuff.
Brian
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Thank you, the manual is probably clear enough its me that overthinks this stuff all the time.
Bob
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Thank you, the manual is probably clear enough its me that overthinks this stuff all the time.
Bob
Every boat builder spends a ton of time thinking through stuff... it's the nature of the beast ...and results in a better boat :)
bd
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I glassed the front chine's with 8" x 10oz cloth and 12" x 12oz biax.
I may have messed up, doing a spreadsheet today and discovered that I purchased 0/90 biaxial 12", I used this on the forward chine seam, rear section has 2 rows of +/-45.
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I glassed the front chine's with 8" x 10oz cloth and 12" x 12oz biax.
I may have messed up, doing a spreadsheet today and discovered that I purchased 0/90 biaxial 12", I used this on the forward chine seam, rear section has 2 rows of +/-45.
No worries... there is plenty of glass on the boat, and with those beams and decks in place, those chines are well beyond strong enough. Your 0/90 biax is stronger than standard woven since the layers of glass yarn lay flat, and the boat is fine with just standard woven. Keep on truckin' ....go fishing sooner!
Brian
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That takes a load off of my mind!
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That takes a load off of my mind!
You'll find that the boat is stiff and stout and then you won't doubt... haha, that rhymes! Relax... be happy...
bd
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The extended transom does add time to the build for sure, I had to install risers on the stringers, loft and cut the rear bulkhead (2 pieces of 1/2") laminate and install from underneath the boat, while I was down there I installed the transom knees to the rear bulkhead that I installed. I put 2 " radius fillets on the rear bulkhead and 30oz of glass with glass mini-fibers as well.
I still have to put 3" fillets on the rear transom (vertical portion at least and I may end up doing this after the deck is on from underneath)and glass 30oz with mini fibers added, mount the deck on the extended portion (from underneath the boat) before I can finish taping the exterior transom seams and sides to the rear bulkhead and deck I added. And before the deck goes on I have to glass the underside of the deck since accessibility will be limited.
I am not complaining, just sayin...
On a side note I am having trouble using taptalk with this sight and reset password will not work.
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I wouldn't do all that underneath taping until the boat is upright, and I would build the outside seams now. After turning, then go back and do the interior seams and add decking. Am I missing something here?
bd
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I think so, the deck on the extended platform has to be taped to the sides. The deck will give limited access to the transom. The pic below does not show the bottom panels installed, the rear bulkhead is yellow and the rear deck is green, I will have to reach the transom thru this access. The second pic is crude, to show how sides will be taped to the rear deck. Hope it makes sense.
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Actual pics may help, these are from underneath looking over the rear bulkhead:
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So if I scrape the irregularities of the chine seam and fill with micro-baloon fairing compound and do a nice job with troweling it on, can I apply the glass without sanding the fairing compound?
Like the fillets, let it firm up good and go for it?
In my experience, limited though it may be, it is better to fill, scrape and sand (60-80 grit) prior to glassing. Adding glass over irregular surfaces compounds the original low, high or ridge.
As far as sanding goes, Brian is absolutely right, balling means more cure. Also, coarse paper (40-60 grit) creates less heat meaning less balling allowing you to go farther, faster.
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I had high hopes on that troweling to perfection, but using 8" and 12" wide glass on the front chine seams was golden!
10-4 on the fill, scrape and sand and #40 and #60 is what I used. Works great except for the aches in my arms and shoulders. By the time I get done with this my shoulders will look like this:
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LOL!
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Update time. I glassed and installed the rear bulkhead, put 30 oz of glass on the interior transom. I did the transom interior seams before installing the rear deck. Just need to add stiffeners for the rear deck. I think 3/4" plywood 4" tall mounted in saddles should work. I got really good at bumping my head while underneath. (http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161024/7058a68a282c134b440a3534fcac3968.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161024/d58b1701a97112a24979f778e43f29ca.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161024/15d6bbfeb3a6f0932d4042468fd640f6.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161024/2c96954a2b79827c5f0efcece9a7c48f.jpg)
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(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161024/a63799538a00ebd97382af00b4776e5b.jpg)this on shows ledger installed.
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For working upside down, you're doing very neat work! Hey ...did you learn a new language when you got your head knocked off? Reminds me of when I was under my truck, working with a wrench straight up over my face ...dropped the wrench, reactively turned my head super fast to one side ...smack(!) ...right into the suspension! I about knocked myself out ...geez that hurt. :(
bd
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Brian,
On that last pic, where the side meets the rear deck, should I add fillet and glass over the ledgers?
Last night I added 30oz to where the transom meets the inner deck, it is tight working especially the side chambers.
I have my supports for the floor cut out, I will glass them with light glass prior to install.
All under deck wood is supposed to have glass correct?
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At work resting up for the night shift, I drew up the floor supports in SkechUp, I will radius the plywood support to make it easy to glass with 1 piece. I drilled 3/4" hole in the saddle's and used the table saw to cut the slot. I will be installing these supports on the bottom of the rear deck which is upside down right now so it will be easy to do. When I drilled the saddles I matched the angle of the transom and rear bulkhead so the support will sit all the way down in the saddle.
See Attached.
For working upside down, you're doing very neat work! Hey ...did you learn a new language when you got your head knocked off? Reminds me of when I was under my truck, working with a wrench straight up over my face ...dropped the wrench, reactively turned my head super fast to one side ...smack(!) ...right into the suspension! I about knocked myself out ...geez that hurt. :(
bd
I hit my head many times and every time I promised to be more careful. (cussing of course)
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Brian,
On that last pic, where the side meets the rear deck, should I add fillet and glass over the ledgers?
Not sure what a "ledger" is, but glass all seams....
I have my supports for the floor cut out, I will glass them with light glass prior to install.
All under deck wood is supposed to have glass correct?
You still working on an upside down boat? I'm still not sure I get that...
Yes, everything under the deck should be sealed in epoxy and at least lightweight glass, e.g. bottom of deck, stringers etc. Wood may check (cracks in the surface) if only epoxy coated rather than being glassed and epoxied - and access will be exactly zero once you complete the boat. You want the insurance of having at least a light layer of glass on everything to prevent checking.
bd
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I should have said "cleats" actually I think it is called a "nailer" in your construction manual, they are supports for the extended transom deck. Those are solid sapele but was not sure if I have to glass them too.
I will go ahead and glass right over the nailers then.
When I install the main deck I will glass all the short nailers before I install them, man that will be tedious, glass 3 sides and the ends and coat with 3 coats of epoxy before installing. I see what you mean, 50% done and 80% to go once flipped.
"Working on an upside down boat" As soon as I tape the exterior seams around the transom, rear deck and rear bulkhead I will flip it.
Hopefully this weekend I will finish up the exterior seams.
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Oh ...THOSE! I use solid wood for that because it minimizes the end grain exposure. I seal the end grain with smooth silica-thickened epoxy, rubbing it in good and leaving it on thick, then give the wood at least 3 coats of epoxy (usually with leftover epoxy while working on other stuff). I don't glass the nailers... note that they are separated from the hull by a layer of glass and epoxy and rot is not likely to spread anywhere but within the nailer piece of wood. Once the decks are installed, the nailers are more inconsequential. What I've also done, is to draw a line on the hull around the perimeter of the (bottom edge of) the decking and then go back with a gallon Ziplog full of thickened epoxy and just squeeze out a line of epoxy, say the size of a dime in diameter, along the line ...let it cure. Epoxy will not rot. Once cured the line of epoxy works like a continuous nailer that you can glue the deck down on ...squeeze fresh epoxy around the whole perimeter, on top of the cured 'big bead' of epoxy, and then let the deck settle down onto it. If your deck fit isn't too far off, this works great.
Brian
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I have a question on the rear seams, I am pretty sure you will say all of them but here goes.
The seams on transom, will get the 30oz glass treatment with biaxial in the mix but should the rear bulkhead (#4 in the pic) get the same 30oz treatment?
On the extended transom deck (upside down now) I am planning on just doing a 1" radius fillet and glass with 4" - 10oz, should I do more on that?
The last pic is just for show, lot of work for just a few pieces. I added 3 under the extended transom.
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I would go with the 30 on the primary transom seams (1 and 2), but probably 20 is fine on 3 & 4.
Looking great, BTW. Nice neat work ... :)
bd
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Thanks again. Doing the fillets now, after it sets up I will finish off the transom seams.
Floor supports installed:
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Your lower motor bolts will go through under the swim platform deck from what I can see ...how will you reach them once the boat is built?
bd
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Brian is right, you will need an access hatch to reach the mounting bolts. I put one in my splash well as well, for the same purpose. I originally was going to use a six inch screw in hatch, but when I got to that point I realized it just wasn't big enough. Ended up using a 10x12 Bomar hatch. Bought it on close out sale direct from the factory at a major discount.
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I will use a 8" screw in deck plate, that should do it. My current boat has a snap in type mounted offset to kicker side so easy access to both motor mount bolts. Probably go with a Beckson.
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I will use a 8" screw in deck plate, that should do it. My current boat has a snap in type mounted offset to kicker side so easy access to both motor mount bolts. Probably go with a Beckson.
An 8" round one will work fine... I've used them before. But KEEP IN MIND that there is NO SUCH THING as a waterproof deck plate unless it screws or bolts down with at least 6 screws/bolts and has a quality gasket. The only exception are certain heavy aluminum commercial-grade ones ...but they're spendy. Plan on water. Wire in a bilge pump for that compartment....
Brian
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Right now that compartment is not closed off bit it will be after the flip. I will probably mount 2 bilge pumps back there.
Just finished the fillets and 20 oz glass. When I tape the rear seams I will put 6" biax and 8" cloth on all rear seams and let sheathing cover for the 30 oz schedule. Decided to cover the biaxial on seams 3 & 4.
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Forgot the pic:
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You know... you could also cut a rectangular opening through the forward transom, below the level of the swim platform decking... perhaps you could reach the lower motor mount bolts through that ...or maybe there's not enough height to give you a reasonable opening. If that works, however, you could even leave it open or use a rectangular bomar hatch or equivalent, and have no deck plate on the swim platform deck?
I wouldn't sweat having water in that compartment. It's a boat. But I'd provide a way to automatically remove it (bilge pump) and also consider how you'll keep the area vented ...at least when not in use. Deck plates on vertical surfaces (or hatches) leak a lot less than deck plates mounted on horizontal surfaces. I vowed long ago to never put deck plates on exposed horizontal surfaces again ...but then again, some are unavoidable. Just something to keep in mind.
bd
PS: Your fillets and glass work look great ...as usual. You're going to have a nice boat. :)
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Most guys swear by the Armstrong hatches (Armstrong - the guys that make the aluminum outboard brackets). Said they leak the least. I'm sure they're not cheap.
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Nice hint! I had totally forgotten about those and hadn't looked at them in years. They have a seal and clamp the deck to close:
http://www.goodboatgear.com/detail/pd/70606/-Watertight-Compression-Deck-Plates
http://www.fisheriessupply.com/armstrong-nautical-round-watertight-compression-deck-plates
bd
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Thanks for that, they look to be better designed and not too expensive.
Bob
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Thanks for that, they look to be better designed and not too expensive.
Bob
Agreed... they've got to work better than the screw-in ones, and likely better than the quick release ones too. I'd definitely go with Armstrong...
bd
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Align with upper side of the chine radius, otherwise you'd have fill work to do ...and the purpose is to knock down spray. It'll do that fine when installed as shown below:
(http://glacierboats.com/images/chine.jpg)
Brian
What happened to this pic?
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Good catch! I moved the forums to a different server and missed a few of the images files. They should work now... although you may need to refresh you screen :)
Brian
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Perfect and thank you!
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Forgive me father, for I have sinned... Its been 4 months since I my last worked on my boat. Life gets in the way sometimes and part time boat builder is faced with many challenges.
I promise to re-sand re-clean, apply fairing compound and sand some more then add the exterior glass. I have no vision of finishing this year and I will be ok with that, setting my sights on next year for the launch.
One thing I discovered was that the keel was not flat / fair as I wanted so I used a long strait edge covered with box tape and put a bead of silica thickened epoxy to make a flat keel and fair. I have since applied fairing compound to blend the keel into the bottom nice, the 2 rows of glass tape are blended in good now. I could have faired it all later after applying glass but it bothered.
I tried to use tap-talk but there is an error.
I should be able to start putting glass on the hull this coming weekend. I will add some pics soon.
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Pics as promised, the keel had 1/8" low spots in a couple spots but the batten and strait edges with epoxy fixed it.
(http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx174/Rbob_photos/28ft%20Great%20Alaskan/IMG_01441.jpg)
(http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx174/Rbob_photos/28ft%20Great%20Alaskan/IMG_01431.jpg)
(http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx174/Rbob_photos/28ft%20Great%20Alaskan/IMG_01611.jpg)
Added fairing to blend it in:
(http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx174/Rbob_photos/28ft%20Great%20Alaskan/IMG_01641.jpg)
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Yup ... Tapatalk is failing for now. I've been working on the web site instead, and on updating the plans manuals and drawings ...they're all out of date with old addresses and copyrights, and Windows got rid of a font that I used, so now I have to edit every drawing and tune font sizes and text locations. I'll work on the forum issues after I finish the plans package update. No errata is coming that I know of ... I checked issues pointed out by some and found that the updates had already made it into the last release.
Your fairing work looks really good, nice textbook example of how to do it right. I like to fair between all layers, e.g. fair the wood ...then glass ...then fair ...then 2nd layer of glass ...then fair. If you don't do it that way, then sometimes defects can add up and make life more difficult later. It's better to take down high spots and fill the lows at every opportunity as you go. You'll appreciate it later...
Brian
PS: Great pix!
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Brian,
I am thinking ahead again, when the sheer decks are added, do I glass the top of the sheer deck and wrap the glass onto the sides?
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Brian,
I am thinking ahead again, when the sheer decks are added, do I glass the top of the sheer deck and wrap the glass onto the sides?
Exactly! Boats tend to flex in a 'hogging' and 'oil-canning' way. As they climb up a swell, the bow wants to flex upward - which forces the sides outward. When on top of a swell (like a teeter-totter), the opposite happens. The sheer structure in this boat is designed to resist these flexions - it is effectively a horizontal beam. If you glass the sheer decks and wrap it over onto the sides of the boat, the tensile strength added by the glass is a great back-up to the sheer structure. A common place for boats to crack (and leak into the boat ...it's upholstery etc) is along the sheer and this is why. Other stress concentration areas are along the bow stem and the transom corners. These places flex like a hinge as the boat flexes, and that's why I use a heavy stem and the glass-reinforced epoxy putty for the transom corners... I've seen cracks in boats in all of these areas, but not in a Great Alaskan!
Brian
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Perfect explanation! Since they are subject to abuse biax and 10oz should make it bullet proof!
Thank you!
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Perfect explanation! Since they are subject to abuse biax and 10oz should make it bullet proof!
Thank you!
The Great Alaskan, as designed, is over-strong... on purpose, so imperfect builds or cheap plywood would still work fine :)
Brian
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Correction: The Great Alaskan is a Fish catching, rough water safe boat, designed to take it under rough conditions. Overbuilding would insinuate heavy, tank like construction, quite the opposite is true! It is a stable craft which handles the seas with seaming ease!
PS, Send all donations to my PayPal account...Just kidding, in case you hadn't figured it out, I love my boat!
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That's a great report, and review. Glad you are enjoying it, do you get out bottom fishing / halibut?
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I have been working at getting a house ready to sell. Haven't had time for fun other than just getting home from Mexico; two weeks of bliss...
I am planning on getting her cleaned up and going crabbing next week, depending on how the house sale is going.
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Hey .. thanks for the rave reviews! It means a lot! ;D
Brian
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I finally finished the reverse chines and put glass on one bottom side of the hull, overlapped about 6" onto the side panels, transom and keel.
Laying down the glass is way more fun than sanding fairing compound. I put space heaters under the hull to warm up the hull and the glass wetted out easily. It took me 3 hours by myself to get this done.
Can I use a butt joint for the side panel glass to bottom panel glass since it is overlapped 6" onto the side?
I tapered the glass on the keel overlap and will apply some fairing compound before applying the second row of bottom glass.
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Re side panel to bottom panel glass and butt joint - You can use a butt joint, which is to say, the side panel glass just lays edge to edge with the bottom panel glass that overlaps up the sides. I generally never use butt joints with glass, since you often have to fill and sand a thin gap between the edges anyway. It's a little more sanding to overlap an inch or two, but easy to reach anyway. You can decide....
You're doing fantastic work, BTW. The boat is really going together beautifully! Way nicer than what I do ... LOL...
Brian
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I finally finished the reverse chines and put glass on one bottom side of the hull, overlapped about 6" onto the side panels, transom and keel.
Laying down the glass is way more fun than sanding fairing compound. I put space heaters under the hull to warm up the hull and the glass wetted out easily. It took me 3 hours by myself to get this done.
Can I use a butt joint for the side panel glass to bottom panel glass since it is overlapped 6" onto the side?
I tapered the glass on the keel overlap and will apply some fairing compound before applying the second row of bottom glass.
I lapped mine, Inwanted no weak spots. I am sure that we "home" boat builders over build for the most part. However, that being said, I have seen a few that did not, and they paid a price. I would rather spend the little extra in time and cash than one day coming to the realization that I cut in the wrong spot. To me, bomb proof is a good thing.
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I decided not to do the butt joint. I filled along the edge of the side glass with fairing compound and a trowel. I ran a 1/2" bead of fairing compound with a pastry bag which worked great, one batch did one entire seam.
Since I have to sand these seams before applying the side glass, could I fill the weave on the bottom glass with thickened epoxy or a thin coat of fairing compound before adding the side glass? and do I need to sand the cloth before filling the weave? Tomorrow night it will be 3 & 4 days cure for the bottom glass.
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Glad you are going with the overlap. That's my preference.
I know that some find it easier to fill the weave in glass with some fairing compound mixed into the epoxy, but I generally don't ... but I also don't use heavier than about 10-oz as a last layer of glass, so the weave doesn't need a lot of filling. What I do is to first sand the cured glass lightly with a random orbital and around 100-grit paper - but lightly, just enough to smooth the epoxy a tad without getting into the glass. If you DO touch a bit of glass here and there, don't worry about it, just try not to. I find that with a light sanding like that, that the weave will fill much easier with straight epoxy rolled on. That said, I do know that some swear by using some fairing compound - I just haven't found it necessary myself yet.
And yes, it's OK to fill the weave before you add the side glass, and I do recommend it to some degree ... noting that you don't need to work so hard on it that the weave is finished completely. After adding the side glass, you'll need to do similar work anyway. Just fill enough of the weave for the next layer of glass to lay on it smoothly and call it good. Do your 'finish work' later.
Brian
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Thank you, always good advice from you. I am looking forward to finishing the side glass this weekend and filling the weave. Its nice to feel like I am making progress.
A couple pics for show:
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Update,
I finished glassing the sides and I have back-filled the chines and transom edges. I am going shrimping Saturday so will do what I can on Sunday fairing.
I have used a fairing mix which I am pretty sure phelonoic microbaloons and silica, which is a bitch to sand in comparison to QuickFair, I used it at bow because I needed it done fast so I could lay the other side glass the same day and it sands and spreads like butter....
photos:
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I'm surprised at the remark on microballoons and silica ... And, I think you meant microspheres. The white fairing mix is glass microspheres and the purple is phenolic microballoons... confusing terms. In any case, I find the opposite to be true. Microspheres (white, glass) needs less silica to make it non-sagging (thixotropic) and feathers out more nicely ...when goopy or when cured and sanded. I prefer it. Microballoons (purple, phenolic), doesn't seem to want to become non-sagging without adding more silica than I prefer, which makes it harder to sand. It doesn't appear to produce as smooth a finish or as fine an edge as the glass microspheres. That's my impression anyway, and admittedly, it's a subjective kind of thing and someone else may believe the opposite to be true.
In general, I will do my earliest fairing with microballoons, or anything that will be glassed over with additional glass is faired with microballoons. Once the boat is sheathed and faired once with microballoon, then I will fair with the white glass microspheres ... intending it to be a final fairing. If I've "got religion" on the finish, I have used the WEST System plastic mini-fibers for fairing in pin-sized scratches prior to primer and paint. I think System III sells plastic minifibers now too.... but since they can shrink in heating/cooling cycles and can 'print' underlying layers, it's best to use it for just the finest scratches ... and it feathers out beautifully.
Your close-up fiberglass pic is perfect for showing the pattern of bumps that results on glass right after it's first cure. You should take another pic of the glass after a light sanding with 100-grit to show how it just takes the tops off (without getting into the glass) and produces a surface that is much easier to fill with a fill-coat of epoxy.
How'd the shrimping go?
bd
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Shrimping is good:
On the fairing compounds, We are on the same page, I was comparing what a bitch to sand the phelonic microbaloons were compared to microsperes (quickfair).
I did do a quick sand #120 on the and it smoothed right out, I will get a pic and post Sunday.
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Nice shrimp! Makes me hungry!
Keep up the good work on that boat... really looks great!
bd
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I gave it a quick sand with some #120 grit Bosch sandpaper. This stuff rocks, it is a heavy weight paper, not what you usually find. This 120 sands better than the 80 grit I used which was Carborundum. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001FDCKQS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001FDCKQS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
I will try to add a short video.
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and a short video of sanding:
http://vid753.photobucket.com/albums/xx174/Rbob_photos/28ft%20Great%20Alaskan/Sanding%20120.mp4 (http://vid753.photobucket.com/albums/xx174/Rbob_photos/28ft%20Great%20Alaskan/Sanding%20120.mp4)
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Good to know that the Bosch paper is so much better. One of the defining differences between a random orbital made by Fein versus others is the short height of the hook-n-loop fasteners. It keeps the paper smooth, flat, and not much 'jiggle' on the hook-n-loop material ... the paper is much more effective when it's smooth, flat, AND moving as it should. It sounds like the Bosch paper helps in most of these same ways and is very effective. Got it on MY list for my next paper purchase.... :) Thanks!
You took just the PERFECT amount of epoxy off on that glass. Anyone can see how much that'll help the fill coat (that follows) fill the glass. It'll take much less epoxy (fewer coats) and will be much smoother ... you're doing excellent work!
Brian
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I was buying paper from one of my woodworking suppliers, ran out and ran to Lowes. Their bulk brand held up better than the German brand I was using, I go through lots of paper so when I find a locally available brand that is cost effective I'm pretty happy! The brand (Diablo) they sell at Home Depot sucks!
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I was buying paper from one of my woodworking suppliers, ran out and ran to Lowes. Their bulk brand held up better than the German brand I was using, I go through lots of paper so when I find a locally available brand that is cost effective I'm pretty happy! The brand (Diablo) they sell at Home Depot sucks!
I haven't looked into Lowes for awhile ... Didn't know they had good sandpaper (thx)
Brian
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update,
I had a marathon session of sanding and adding more fairing compound. The fairbody seam and the seam where my glass overlapped the inner chine needed more fill after all that sanding so I added more.
i know its under the boat and probably will never see it but... ADHD took over.
My first pass after the glass was micro balloon fairing mix and it sands not great I might say. I used the rest of my Quickfair on this final pass and I had to make a bench mix for the last 3-4 ft.
I used mainly glass bubbles and 1 scoop of the fairing compound mix just because it had some cabosil.
It spreads like crap compared to quickfair, maybe I made it too thick but I will be ordering more quickfair for the rest of the job..
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Holy moly! That's a lot of fairing work! You'll be proud of it when it's done though ... your work on this boat is outstanding!
Brian
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I really like the transom fish box and extended hull design. Is your aft cockpit bulkhead (did I say that right?) At the 28' length or is it at 25'-6" or 26'? As I understand my plans 28 ' is max for a GA. That's gonna be one sexy machine!
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Sorry for the late reply, the bulkhead is 26'
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I really like the transom fish box and extended hull design. Is your aft cockpit bulkhead (did I say that right?) At the 28' length or is it at 25'-6" or 26'? As I understand my plans 28 ' is max for a GA. That's gonna be one sexy machine!
If I recall, Kent Cannon's GA is 29' 4" ... longest one yet
Brian
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Looking great! If I were to do it again, quickfair would be my go to fairing compound. It is so much easier to work with than the alternative! Not only that, but it cures fast allowing work to continue instead of waiting for epoxy to cure.
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I suck, I thought I would flip my boat this summer but I have not done anything since mid June. Sanding in a moon suit in 90 degree days is too much for me. I use to be able to handle the heat but... I have been working 60+ hours a week so not much left in the tank when I get home.
I just cleaned it up today and plan on adding the last of the fairing compound. I have put a fill coat on the sides so after I finish the bottom fairing just need to put on sealing coats of epoxy then get add my strakes and splash rails.
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I suck, I thought I would flip my boat this summer but I have not done anything since mid June. Sanding in a moon suit in 90 degree days is too much for me. I use to be able to handle the heat but... I have been working 60+ hours a week so not much left in the tank when I get home.
I just cleaned it up today and plan on adding the last of the fairing compound. I have put a fill coat on the sides so after I finish the bottom fairing just need to put on sealing coats of epoxy then get add my strakes and splash rails.
Boy, I know how you feel! Moving to Idaho from Alaska has been killer on the heat thing ... summers at 60 F plus or minus ... changed to summers where the days hover around 100 F! I've never had a garden that burned your hand to touch it ... mowing and easy outdoor tasks became volume-beer ordeals and worn out evenings trying to recuperate... geez!
Agree on the quickfair stuff. A small 3-tablespoon batch goes a long way too, and it's quick to mix up another ... and you can sand on the same day!
Brian
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I recall Kent saying he was 29'-4". The boat didn't look big or out of proportion anywhere after he made the changes he did. I'm not saying it's not a big boat! A GA is no slouch. I was really into the " offshore bracket" look. Nearly Everything on the water is that way out here. It's what people think they want. I was thinking it would help with resale too. I hope I would never have to part with such a machine. I really like having a clean transom bulkhead for dead fish to ride in too. Being a avid diver the extension behind the cockpit makes it easy to get back in. Hope you flip soon and post more pics!
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Building the boat longer helps alleviate CG shift issues with offshore brackets. Keep in mind that the GA gets good mileage because it's lighter than commercial boats ... you have to be just a tad more careful in where you put things and what you do with the boat, the trade off being your half-price cost for getting out when the fat boats have to stay home due to lack of funds.
Brian
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Brian,
Starting to make some progress, I finished fairing the bottom (finally) and have most of my strakes and spray rails cut. I bought rough sawn Sapele 5/4 and planed it down to 1". I planned on putting on the fairbody strake in 2 layers on the bow knee but I saw a video on steam bending (tips from a shipwright video (http://tips from a shipwright video)). So I start thinking. :o Then I look into steam bending and discover that Sapele is not a good wood for steam bending.... ****
I decide to give it a try on a scrap piece 1.5" wide x 1" thick maybe 7' long. I converted a crab cooker pot lid, added a 1" hose barb and a vent that I can open to add water. I screwed metal strapping to the outside of the "bend" under tension I used a continuous roll of plastic tube and just put it over the area that would be receiving the bend and maybe 1' past on each side and just wrapped tape to seal it up and fed the steam from the middle. I cut a snip at each end of the tubing to let the steam out and steamed it for just over an hour.
I just had a makeshift bench with some blocks screwed down for a jig and I thought it would be difficult to bend but it was quite easy to do, just clamped it on and let the steam go for another 15 minutes and shut everything down. To my surprise it only sprung back a little once removed from the form.
I am going to bend in place the fairbody strake and if all goes well I will do the splash rails in place also.
Just a note on the thickness, I was going to apply 2 layers on the splash rails 3/4 + 3/8 but if I can do this in 1 layer why not just apply the 1" spray rail and call it done? Not much of a difference. I am attaching a couple pics and I may post a short video in a bit for entertainment purposes only.
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I did an experimental steam bending of white oak once, wondering if I wanted to build a particular canoe ... never did build the canoe, but the white oak was quite floppy and bendy when it came out of the steam. Seemed pretty easy to me. Maybe if someone says Sapele doesn't work well, maybe they mean it won't turn into a spaghetti noodle? I wonder how well a thicker, like an inch or more, would bend? You'll probably need to do an experiment to find out... fun stuff though.
Brian
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I still never tire watching others with their ingenuity! Looking forward to many more updates!
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Gougen Bros I read somewhere saying to lightly disc sand at 30 deg to the flow of grain.....
Rips open those cells, it's what I do on hardwood, don't with softer wood, as you say Brian, and i experienced the same, epoxy sticks very well to planned wood.
What makes it stick great is as Brian has in the manual, give the wood soak time in epoxy, till those dull areas look glossy with wet resin, then glass, glue etc...
Love my disc grinder, 125mm - 5" x 16 grit disc's, panel beaters supplies best price here.... Chews through @ 9000 rpm
I missed that "30 deg off" in the Gougeon Brother's book. I suppose a guy could rough sand to get something close, then make a thin final cut with a plane to open the cells back up again?
Brian
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Another spray rail question,
I am confused too:
c) In your drawing of the main splash rail cross section, note that the slanted side faces downward in the picture (upward when the boat is upright) ...this helps spray and rain slide off the top of the spray rail. The bottom face ends up perpendicular to the side of the boat and knocks down spray.
is this correct orientation:
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Yup ... That be the correct orientation! The right-angle on the bottom knocks down spray, but the slanted top allows water striking the side of the boat to slide back off... Hope that's clear :o 8)
Brian
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Thank you, my wife was helping me and questioned it so I revisited and had doubt. When in doubt...
I have steam bent the fairbody strake, it went well except for the scart joint that could not take the heat so I will be joining those pieces on the boat. I had 16' boards but cut them in half so in hindsight I should have left a piece 12' so the spray rails and the fairbody strake would not have a scarf joint to deal with.
I will be bending one of the main splash rails tonight and I will no include the scarf joint, just have to tape off the plastic tube maybe 6" from the scarf.
I did full length strake and the boards are not that strait so I used the laser level and put saddles on with a small dab of hot glue.
couple pics:
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You're really doing fine job! Everything on the boat looks awesome! This is the first steam bending that has gone onto a Great Alaskan, so it's really interesting to watch! Thanks for sharing all the details and the pix!
Brian
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Well steam bending the main splash rails did not go as planned. Since the wood had profile cut, bending left a outward twist on the skinny side of the wood. Only one side attempted so I will just cut it off or heat the scarf and separate the front portion and remake it.
I would not hesitate to do the keel strake again, that was easy.
So I will just put it on a few strips at a time as you suggest in the construction manual.
Still getting closer which makes me happy so time to roll on some epoxy and glue on the strakes and spray rails. I see primer and paint in my future...and the long awaited flip!
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I was wondering if the cross-sectional profile of the side strakes would influence the steam bending ... I guess so. Well, you can put down the first layer and then top it with UHMD plastic, or go with all wood .... either works. I like all wood myself. No screw holes to invite water and rot, and unless you're a seine skiffer, I doubt you (or anyone) would bang the boat into anything enough to make something tougher required.
bd
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Brian,
I used a brad nailer to install the strake and I put squares of 1/2" wood to keep the brads from penetrating all the way and the next morning I pulled the brads.
I found stainless steel brads 316 grade and I was thinking about just leaving them in when I add the second layer on the main spray rails. Do you think that is a good / bad idea?
The brad holes left behind when I pull them are small and tough to get epoxy down in the hole so I am not sure how great of an idea that was.
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Those 316 SS brads will not be a problem in your lifetime or even in the lifetime of your grandchildren. I'm not against them staying in if you make sure they are well-buried so that the holes they punch through layers of epoxy are well protected. For example, when the first layer goes on and there is squeeze-out all the way around them (proof of no hidden gaps), and you put the second layer right over the top, then great ... no problems. Same with gaps around the edges of the strakes where they meet the hull ... just make sure it's all sealed well. The last issue is whether the brads punch through the hull to the inside and it sounds like you've mastered that process. As for filling the holes from brads, if you pull them out, just make a mix of silica and epoxy (goopy) and use your gloved finger to dab some on over each hole, trying to push it into the holes. It's hard to push epoxy into a dead-end hole since air in the hole doesn't want to compress to make room for epoxy. But do your best and if anything, leave a little extra on and make the bumps flush with a scraper after they cure, then put final coats of epoxy on. Any remaining tiny holes should seal up just find when straight epoxy is rolled/brushed on.
bd
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Sounds great, the strakes and spray rails are taking way more time than I thought but I keep chugging along. I keep looking forward to flipping which is like a carrot dangling in front of me. ;D
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Sounds great, the strakes and spray rails are taking way more time than I thought but I keep chugging along. I keep looking forward to flipping which is like a carrot dangling in front of me. ;D
The details get you ... You can frame a house in 2 weeks, then it takes 3 months to detail it out and finish it. It's the way of the world.... but about 10 minutes after you finish that boat, you'll forget all about those hours and your eyes will be scanning the blue horizon ... fishing and boating dreams on your mind as you fill that tank :D
bd
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Next time I will pass on using leaving the stainless brads in the outer layer of the splash rails, the brad nailer leaves a wide chisel bit hole so still needed to use a nail set to set deeper after final sanding and this caused more damage to repair.
Its easier to use a scrap piece of plywood to install the brad and pull the brads, I will say that the stainless brads are much easier to pull. The cheap brads I resorted to heating the heads with a small solder torch before pulling because some were breaking off and that was a bitch to remove the broken ones.... Drill around the brad, use needle nose pliers and vice grips to squeeze the needle nose pliers and heat...
Onto the Auxillary Spray rails, I know they start at the front and go not sure how far back, I know Dave from Homer ran his all the way back but I can find anything specific on how far back.
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Construction manual part 1 of 2, page 110:
"c. All Models (all lengths): The auxiliary spray rails are 12 feet long and are mounted along the chine (see full-size images in Appendix A) starting at about 3” aft of the bow (approx.) "
That said, you can go longer if you want. I wouldn't go shorter though, since these really help keep spray down near the water surface where it belongs.
Brian
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Thanks for sharing the details on those brads:
1. Use the good stainless ones since they pull out easier
2. Shoot them through a piece of scrap ply so you can pull the ply (w/brads) off together and leave minimal damage / holes that you have to fill
I've had to dig out cheap screws in the same way, once they break off - I decided then and there that using quality screws, even if they are going to be removed, is the only way to go. Quality saves headaches... and extra work!
Brian
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Brian,
I see fillets on the fairbody strake and side strakes but do the spray rails get a fillet?
On the water side I made drawing of 1/2" and 1" radius: Probably overthinking again...
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A fillet as shown is a great idea, including a thin one on top. Bottom one directs spray away from the seam between the rail and hull, and the top one helps water run off the side with no 'temptations' (thin cracks between rail and hull that you missed and just love to suck up water and hold onto it)
bd
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I got a little more done, I ended up putting 1/4" shoes I cut from Ipe on the strakes. I had to fill the nail holes before adding the shoe's and I used a syringe to fill the holes from the bottom up. I used G-Flex for the strakes and the Ipe shoes.
Did I say the Strakes and spray rails are time consuming?
Not as much done as I wanted but here are some more pics:
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You can get lost in the detail work (ask me how I know!) .... sometimes it's worth it, and sometimes not. The syringe trick for filling holes from the bottom up works great and it prevents trying to 'smash' epoxy into a hole that's full of air and doesn't want to take it. Finish by over-filling the fill dimples with fairing compound mix, then when cured, use a carbide scraper to scrape them off smooth. I don't know of a faster or easier way to finish filling holes....
Brian
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I love the internet! Found a great way to remove broken screws, 5 of them broke off 1/4" down in the hole of my spray rails. Its a roll pin just hammer it onto the broken screw:
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Wow ... that's a great idea! I've never heard of it before ... all I've seen is "drill holes all around the broken screw and dig it out or use needle nose pliars". The rol pin is WAY neater and cleaner, WAY less damage to fill... nice :)
Brian
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The process for me, I had used a countersink drill to install the #6 screws and on broken ones I enlarge the hole a little down to the broken off screw (used 1/4" drill for the 3/16 roll pin clearance) and took a 1/16" drill bit and drilled maybe 4 holes next to the broken screw to allow the roll pin to be hammered down a bit. since the screws were set in epoxy I used a micro torch flame in the end of the roll pin which directs the flame right down the screw head only and slowly twist, if it slips just hit a couple more times to get a good grip. In softer wood like fir etc I don't think you would need to drill around the base of the broken screw but meranti or harder wood I would.
Get several roll pins as they only work on 2-3 before losing the grip.
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Has anyone tried using those Raptor plastic nails? Raptor says, "composite staples, nails, and specialty fasteners can be cut and sanded without damaging router bits, saw blades and sanding belts, and provide complete corrosion resistance."
On my jumbo, i've left the screws in the rails, but they were silicon bronze and are buried but even if they do get wet, I'm not worried. Having said that I think I'd use those plastic "nails" in a lot of places mostly for keeping things in the correct position while the epoxy cures, but then feel comfortable just leaving them in.
te
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Has anyone tried using those Raptor plastic nails? Raptor says, "composite staples, nails, and specialty fasteners can be cut and sanded without damaging router bits, saw blades and sanding belts, and provide complete corrosion resistance."
On my jumbo, i've left the screws in the rails, but they were silicon bronze and are buried but even if they do get wet, I'm not worried. Having said that I think I'd use those plastic "nails" in a lot of places mostly for keeping things in the correct position while the epoxy cures, but then feel comfortable just leaving them in.
te
I never heard of those composite nails before ... but their website sounds promising. They are strong, are made from fiberglass-impregnated plastic, and like those vinyl coated construction 'sinkers' (16 penny nails), they melt a tad when driven in and 'glue' themselves in. They should have great holding power. And it looks like Raptor sells them in finishing nails that go into standard nailers too. I say, why not? I don't know how much they cost, but who cares? You wouldn't use enough in a Great Alaskan to have to worry about cost...
Raptor Nails and Staples (http://raptornails.com/)
If you go to their Brad Nails page (drill down from the link above), they actually have more than one picture of a boat getting assembled with these.... welcome to the modern world!
Brian
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They sound great, just need a special nailer to use them.
https://ancofastenersales.com/brands/raptor/# (https://ancofastenersales.com/brands/raptor/#)
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I have used the composite brads and staples and they are great. I did the Ashcroft planking on my Outerbanks 26 with the composite staples and use the brads all of the time to hold things together while gluing, etc. Love them. Redhawk also makes them and they are available from Duckworks in Port Townsend. I bought a pnuematic Redhawk staple gun which has worked pretty well. I use my 18 gauge Makita nail gun for the composite brads and it works perfectly. Haven't tried the heavier nails but imagine they would work fine. Nice to drive fasteners that don't have to be removed and won't corrode. They sand really well.
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They sound great, just need a special nailer to use them.
https://ancofastenersales.com/brands/raptor/# (https://ancofastenersales.com/brands/raptor/#)
What Raptor says at the bottom of the link above:
"COMPATIBILITY WARNING FOR COMPOSITE PLASTIC STAPLES AND NAILS
Due to operating pressures and other factors, plastic Raptor nails and staples must be used with tools designed specifically for them."
Looks like their nailers run a little over $300, but the staplers are a little cheaper
Brian
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Brian,
Ready to epoxy the bottom, I am probably going with the epoxy graphite treatment, Do I put the 3 sealing coats on then the epoxy/graphite?
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Brian,
Ready to epoxy the bottom, I am probably going with the epoxy graphite treatment, Do I put the 3 sealing coats on then the epoxy/graphite?
The way that I like to do it is to finish fairing the boat prior to final coats of epoxy ... that way, those final coats will self-level and hide a thousand sins (I like heavy paint too .... same reasons). Then on the bottom area that will be graphited, assuming no finish or fill coats have been added since fiberglassing, sand lightly with 100-grit or so, to smooth out the epoxy ... but stop short of digging into the fiberglass weave. You can tell when you're getting close just by looking and feeling. Put on the first finish / fill coat. Sand and coat again, but sand just enough to smooth it out and not clear to the glass. That's the second coat. By now you have a feel for how much each coat is smoothing out the last, so you can decide if you need another coat or not. Those that use 12-oz glass instead of 10-oz glass on the boat bottom will need extra fill. The bottom should be smooth before you put the graphite coat on, regardless. The graphite coat should level out very glossy and smooth ... if not, then let it cure, lightly sand, and add another coat. The total finish coats on the bottom, including graphite, should be about 3, depending on results (might need 4).
IF you are putting TWO layers of glass on the boat bottom, add the 2nd layer of glass after the first coat's first fill coat, then proceed as above ... fairing after the 2nd glassing again of course. Two layers, with fill coats and epoxy, creates about a 1/8" thick tough-as-nails bottom treatment. Don't worry about weight ... this is a big boat and it won't notice!
Brian
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Looking for 316 bow eyes, I believe I need at least 6" thread and they are tough to find that long. I did find some 5/8" by 8" 316 which I know is overkill but may have to just because. Wish I could find 3/8" x 8"
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Looking for 316 bow eyes, I believe I need at least 6" thread and they are tough to find that long. I did find some 5/8" by 8" 316 which I know is overkill but may have to just because. Wish I could find 3/8" x 8"
Are you looking for U-bolt type, or are you OK with the eye-bolt type? The 316 U-bolts are expensive and one that has 6" shanks or longer is going to be well over $100 and probably not much of a market for them (which means they might not even exist), and since most are designed for clamping down pipes ... their diameter can get crazy on the longer ones. You can usually find the eye-bolt types with longer shanks than the U-bolt types though. I would check either Hamilton Marine or Seattle Marine (hamiltonmarine.com or seamar.com). Perhaps you can find some all-thread in 316 that has the same threads as an available (but too-short) 316 U-bolt, then use a 316 threaded coupler to extend the shanks. I think if the coupler was buried and epoxied in an oversize hole, that you'd never know it was there. Just an idea.
Brian
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Last of the fill coats on the bottom are done., I used a old carpet cleaner for final cleaning, wish I had used this before. 30 year old "Green Machine" made cleaning a breeze.
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I bet that feels good. When do you flip?
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Well if it wasn't for Turkey Hunting it would be sooner. I will be gone this weekend setting up our spot and hunting Turkey next weekend...
When I get back I will do the final sand and hopefully only 2 coats of graphite/epoxy.
Short answer, by the 28th. Then Shrimping starts on the 5th of May so another small bump in my build. Either way I am soo looking forward to the flip.
Thank you for all your help along the way!
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Brian,
That will work for me! Great idea:
Perhaps you can find some all-thread in 316 that has the same threads as an available (but too-short) 316 U-bolt, then use a 316 threaded coupler to extend the shanks. I think if the coupler was buried and epoxied in an oversize hole, that you'd never know it was there. Just an idea.
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And for anyone else that needs one, Amazon.com :
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Man ... the boat looks perfect! Good info (and prices) on the bow-eyes. I do prefer the U-bolt type since they don't bend or twist under load....
bd
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Thank you, I am looking forward to flipping soon. And I am not going with white graphite, scared of it but I am giving the graphite with titanium dioxide and milled carbon fibre a try, I will do a small test sample and see how it looks before committing.
Oh, I did find 316 coupling nuts:
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Nice ... where'd you find those couplers?
bd
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Ebay!
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Ebay!
But of course!
bd
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Brian,
Thinking ahead about the "limbers", the manual says all bulkheads limbered to drain aft to the bilge area except for the fuel tank compartment. How does water flow around the fuel tank?
I believe any water from anchor / windlace locker will drain into the hull and travel aft until it hits the bulkhead for the fuel tank, then what?
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Thinking ahead about the "limbers", the manual says all bulkheads limbered to drain aft to the bilge area except for the fuel tank compartment. How does water flow around the fuel tank?
I believe any water from anchor / windlace locker will drain into the hull and travel aft until it hits the bulkhead for the fuel tank, then what?
Hey ... good question and great illustration! I should make this more clear in the manual.
Ok, so first ... why keep water away from fuel tanks? Well, perhaps I didn't make my 'aluminum tank' assumption clear! You really want to avoid standing water in or on or around aluminum tanks. That includes water that is 'trapped by capillary action' between two surfaces, one of which is your aluminum tank. This will absolutely eventually cause tank failure / leaking. My aluminum tank assumption is based on the idea that while you can find off-the-shelf tanks for the aft belly tank, the forward belly tank span will likely be a custom tank, e.g. welded aluminum. This is because the forward end of the tank is going to be shallower than the aft end of the tank and I doubt you can build a tank (reliably) with something like poly welding and plastic etc. Using an off-the-shelf tank for the forward position will likely limit your fuel capacity. Some people choose to paint the aluminum tanks with something like Zinc Chromate Primer by Moeller (https://www.amazon.com/MOELLER-MFG-COMPANY-INC-CHROMATE/dp/B000N8LR24/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1523543368&sr=8-1&keywords=zinc+chromate+primer) and then with a good submersible-grade non-ablative paint ('hard bottom paint') before installation of the tank. This will add a LOT of relatively cheap and easy insurance that'll help guarantee a good long life for aluminum tanks. Combine that with preventative measures such as allowing for drainage out from under tanks and for preventing water collection on the surface of the tank, and you're in like Flynn.... be proud!
Alright, so much for homework ... back to the under-deck drainage questions. First, I do recommend that you CAN drain water through the fuel tank compartments but you should do so only if a) you can plug the limbers to prevent it (boat plugs and 15/16" round limbers), and b) you have provided some sort of access and/or ventilation that'll help dry out even the capillary-action trapped water that might be in the tank compartments somewhere. Easier done that said. For this reason, even without limbers into the fuel tank compartments, I suggest always providing good ventilation - even if only used when the boat is in dry storage.
Another approach is to block water from the fuel compartments and just sponge out whatever collects outside the bulkheads. Or, provide ventilation together with f'w'd bilge pumps to move water out of those areas where it can be trapped ... either to an area that *does* drain, or over the side. Thinking ahead and providing access is key. On one boat that I had, the 'access' was a small deck plate and I could 'just barely' fit a Shop Vac hose down in there to suck out the water that collected, and then I'd duct tape a cloth on a broomstick to reach in and 'sponge out' the remaining bits of water. When you build your own boat, you can do better than that, right? :)
Brian
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Brian,
I finished up the bottom graphite coating, I made 12oz batches adding 2 oz each of graphite and milled carbon fiber and a couple teaspoons of fumed silica, I applied 3 coats. Then I sanded down with #320, #600 & #800 to a smooth chalkboard type finish. Its feels really smooth and has a nice sheen. I am ready to flip just need to move some stuff around in preparation. Off shrimping next weekend so if I cant get it flipped this week it will be when I get back.
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Looking really good! I like the idea of sanding down to finer grits like that, and the resulting chalkboard type finish. It looks great!
Is your boat 28 feet PLUS the bracket-ish extension on the stern, or is that INCLUDING the extension?
Brian
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Brian,
Its 28' including the extension which isn't really an extension rather a low profile transom. ;D
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Brian,
Its 28' including the extension which isn't really an extension rather a low profile transom. ;D
Got it. I forget ... it's been awhile. Is there a swim step type platform on the 'low profile transom not-an-extension :D '?
Thx,
Brian
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Dear Bob,
Thanks for explaining such great work with the pictures. I have purchased the plans recently and will start building the GA in Istanbul. One picture is equal to thousand words. Because I also have language barier on boat building idioms, I have been able to understand the most of the process. Also you are doing it almost what I am planning to do with a minor difference. I am planning to build the boat 330-9/16". This is the maximum length I can get by using the local plywood length in optimum placement with the scarfing. After understanding the full concept I will do a solidworks drawing so to double check everything. I am planning to add same type of swimplatform (transom hang?) where we can install double outboard and utilise for swimming. I am looking forward to see how you will tackle the entrance from the transom.
Good luck on your work,
Sacit
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Sacit,
Thank you for the kind words, I look forward to your build.
Tonight I built the cradles to support the boat after the flip, just as Brian shows in the manual. My jig is on casters and my plan is to flip the jig also and mount the casters on the 6"x6" legs that are flush to the top of the jig so it will be pretty low and still be able to move around if necessary.
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Actually it will sit a little lower than I though since the legs are not quite flush to the top of the jig:
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I flipped it today! Here are some pics, I am super happy... Just me and my wife and grand daughter. I do have a short video but I am in a big darn hurry to go shrimping. Enjoy:
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Somehow? That has to be cheating!
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Congratulations on your flip!!! It's BIG, isn't it? :)
I like that statement ... "Just me, my wife, and granddaughter .... and a BACKHOE!!!!". LOL....
Brian
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Brian,
Is 2" fillet big enough for the stringers? I know the manual says 3" on the transom.
I have the inside all sanded and cleaned up, just have lots of little holes to fill and start the fillets on stringers and chines and bow stem.
I built a stairway to access the boat, hard to climb up and down without it...
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Yes ... using a 2" PVC pipe (or other form) for the stringer's fillets is fine. The transom corners get special treatment due to the concentration of forces at the that occur as the boat flexes (think 'hinge').... and I've seen them crack on some boats (but never on a Great Alaskan!). That's why I recommend large fillets, glass-fiber impregnated epoxy mix for the fillets, and a good solid glass treatment on transom corners. The stringers do not suffer from this same effect when the boat flexes.
Brian
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Bob, your main stringers looks like they are higher than the dimensions at the plans. Is it true or am I judging it wrong from the picture?
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You are correct, 4" higher in main cabin and aft.
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Is there a specific reason for that which I have to take into consideration?
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The reason for raising the deck is simply to insure the deck drains overboard via scuppers without using the bilge. Fish blood and scales are extremely hard on a bilge pump.
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Thanks for the information. That is a great idea to take into consideration.
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Thanks for the information. That is a great idea to take into consideration.
Note that some people even take it a step further and they have added a little crown to the deck (centerline 1/2" higher than outboard edges of the cockpit deck), and / or have added a little slope (f'w'd higher than stern end of cockpit deck by an inch). These things help the water drain in the correct direction, towards the scuppers. When the boat is done, you will not be able to spot the crown and slope ... the deck will look flat and will seem perfectly flat as you walk around on it.
Brian
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Dudley ... How's your progress otherwise? Do you have a place to build? Have you made any sawdust yet? Just curious ... it looks like you're cranking right along on the project ... it'll be fun to see your boat getting built :)
Brian
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I have almost finished all the drawings in AutoCad format for the construction manual 1, excluding the transom. The reason I have not done the transom is because I want to change it completely. So, if I get enough time I will model it on SolidWorks in 3D within next week. And than I will do all the changes that I want on the model. When I feel happy about the changes, I will rework it on AutoCad so that I can cut it on my Multicam CNC with local plywood sizes. I don't have a space problem and have more than enough sawdust etc. Hope to start building towards the end of July, if I can get any spare time left on the CNC from my standard production. I have to do the heavy epoxy jobs before the end of Autumn.
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Awesome! Looking forward to seeing pictures. It's going to be a great boat, I'm sure ... like the sailboat that you built :)
Brian
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Almost done with fillets and taping, chines and bow stem are done and one more side of a stringer than on to the bulkheads, crash chamber etc.
I am going with a anchor windlass so will be closing in the top of the anchor well. Not sure if 1/2" ply is enough so may double that up.
more pics:
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Yeah ... you're kind of in a stage that ends up time consuming without the work accomplished being super obvious yet. The bulkheads and house will be more exciting :)
Brian
PS: Your work's looking great! Nice, neat, professional!
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Brian,
Once the sheer deck in installed, what is the glassing schedule?
Note that not
until the aft pieces are in place will you go back and round over the gunnels and
glass the sheer decking.
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Brian,
Once the sheer deck in installed, what is the glassing schedule?
Note that not
until the aft pieces are in place will you go back and round over the gunnels and
glass the sheer decking.
For any deck that you'll be walking on, use 10-oz woven (and 9.xx ounce is OK too). No need to go to 12 and 6 is too light. No need for biax, but some people like it since it lays over the edge smoother ... but if you do that, go light and put a light layer of woven over it, wet on wet. For example, 6-oz biax plus 6-oz woven, wet-on-wet so the 2nd layer will smooth out the yarn on the biax .... this'll save you work when it comes to fairing. You want the woven to extend beyond the biax by an inch. OR .... K.I.S.S. and just put the 10 ounce on, make sure you give the side-to-sheer deck corner a good round edge so the glass will lay smooth.
Brian
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Simple it is, a little ways down the road but always thinking ahead.
I just finished the the remaining side of the stringer so on to some sheer decks and the crash chamber.
Thank you!
Bob
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RBOB,
I used 1/2 inch marine ply for the deck over the anchor well. And it is more than adequate. The cuddy roof is 1/4” and it gives a bit. I think if I were to do it again I would possibly go 3/8 for the cuddy roof. You don’t get up on the cuddy a lot, or maybe that is just me. But after adding the railing I am sure that will change...sneaking up on albies and casting jigs is in my future!
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Cannon,
Hope to see some pics of your albies soon, I love tuna fishing. I have been out only 4-5 times wit my 22' Raider and had a blast when the weather cooperated. Best was flat calm and 35mph for 1 1/2 hr run, another time we ran 2 1/2hrs at 12mph and gave up. Hopefully I will be ready next summer but I know there is a lot to do.
I will be adding a similar railing, not as nimble or brave as I used to be.
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Brian,
On the center of gravity, not sure how this changes when adding a motor and a kicker. I have your calcs and I assume it is a bare hull with a cabin or maybe without a cabin. My fuel tank I will install slightly behind center of gravity If that is the best.
Is it possible to figure center of gravity with a motor and kicker weight in the calculation?
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You'll find that the boat is forgiving of where the CG lands. If you aim for having the CG of the fuel tanks just behind the aft pilot house bulkhead or so, your usual array of motors will work fine. For building an open house-less version of the boat, that's new territory and I suggest building the hull and decks, following the drawing for center console framing, then use sand bags to represent various items (motors, fuel, people, gear, any other tankage, any batteries and appliances etc) and then move them around until you've got the bow trimming 1 to 1-1/2 inches high versus the stern. Use an angle measurer (below) or a bevel and level to take an approximate angle off the deck and then apply a bit of trigonometry to figure out the trim... I can help with that. I'd calculate the upslope angle right now but am headed off to the Home Despot....
Magnetic Protractor (https://www.amazon.com/Johnson-Level-Tool-700-Magnetic/dp/B00004T807/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1529175337&sr=8-5&keywords=magnetic+protractor)
Brian
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A little more progress, I made the collision chamber bulkhead and glassed the inside face and will install tomorrow:
I tried the tick stick but seemed like way too much work so I went with your tried and true method with door skin and traced the perimeter with a pencil compass.
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Looking good! Have you tried the sander method for trimming glass off the edges of the plywood? On anything that's going to end up in a seam or under epoxy, you just take a random orbital w/80-grit on it and run it around the edge of the plywood, holding the sander a about 45 degrees. Peels the excess right off!
Brian
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Yes that sander works great. I have the collision chamber bulkhead installed, fillets and taped exterior seam with drain plug.. I have fit the tops and have to glue them down.
You are right, lots of work without a lot of progress showing...
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Looks good! This is the stage where it seems ninety percent of the work is. Not really, but it sure seems that way! This phase is probably the most important, because you determine how everything that goes below deck will fit and still give you the ability to change and upgrade your wiring and hoses.
It seems to go on forever, but you are almost there! Keep at it and soon it is Big Blue!
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Thanks Cannon,
Yes the thinking stage begins, thinking about the windlass, and the bulkheads for the anchor locker, aft cuddy and pilot house.
I have my windlass and bow roller and 500' of rode, almost 2k in anchor stuff!
I am going to make my anchor well bulkhead sit all the way down on the crash chamber for plenty of drop for the vertical windlass, should be plenty.
Making the flush sheer deck tomorrow which got me thinking about the pulpit. I am not sure how far to extend it, I may incorporate the sheer deck as part of the pulpit support with 3/4" plywood laminated on the underside on the extension part of it, what do you think?
I did get more done today, I cut out and added blocking for a 6" inspection hatch and glassed it at the same time while installing the crash chamber tops. The bottom side of the crash chamber and support is glassed with 6oz and 2 coats of epoxy prior to install.
Some pics:
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... Looking forward, how do you plan on painting the interior? Do you have a good air compressor that has enough flow to drive an HVLP any-position type 'detail gun'? Every time that I paint something detailed like the interior of a boat, I always wished for one ... but I've been too cheap to buy one.
Brian
PS: Progress is looking great! As for all that thinking ... well, this is where the boat becomes YOUR CUSTOM BOAT ... not some float-tel designed to please Mr. AverageKnowNothing. Enjoy the journey and don't worry too much about the clock....
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I have not thought that far out yet, but I do have HVLP guns and a 5hp 2-stage Ingersol Rand and my shop is setup with correct air line runs, up to rafters and slight fall 50' to air dryer and back across the whole shop with airlines t'eed off the top of the lines and drop down to wall mounted couplings / hose reels. No moisture at all!
I could always take it to my work and do it there on the weekend but it would not fit in the paint booth anyway so it would have to be a makeshift extension on the paint booth so... I have years experience painting cars and the boat is a lot bigger but that is what pressure pots are for.
I finished taping the collision chamber and going to set the anchor well bulkhead on top of the crash chamber,
Directions say 1/4" but this will be quite a bit taller so you think I should step up to 3/8" for anchor well bulkhead? Its about 36" tall so 1/4" might be too thin..
Going to have to put in a drain for the anchor locker to the bilge, too low to drain out the side now.
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On painting, I figure that if you make it easier to do, then you'll likely do a better job. I think a quality detail gun is worth owning and it sounds like you've got the perfect setup for it. Just paint before putting windows in so you can drag the hose in from any direction you want.
On your tall aft anchor well 'bulkhead', yeah, I think I'd go with 3/8". As for draining the anchor well, I'm not a fan of adding water to the bilge, especially if you've got aluminum belly tanks ... but alternatives would either mean piping (hose or PVC?) it to the stern bilge or letting it drain outside the sides of the boat and use plugs when underway? Dunno... lots of ways to skin the cat. I doubt you'll want to sponge it out all the time, so some type of natural draining would be good. Same goes for ventilation to dry the anchor rode.
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Modifications adds a ton of time to the build! I will figure out the ventilation for the anchor locker so it will dry out.
How much water do you think can come in thru the windlass? Dumb question considering if I let out 200' of rope it will be wet when it comes in. Maybe draining into the bilge will be my only option.
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Modifications adds a ton of time to the build! I will figure out the ventilation for the anchor locker so it will dry out.
How much water do you think can come in thru the windlass? Dumb question considering if I let out 200' of rope it will be wet when it comes in. Maybe draining into the bilge will be my only option.
Another option is to put a small bilge pump inside the crash chamber and let the wet anchor line drip into that (open it and sponge it out after you're back and the boat is back home). Even if you filled the whole chamber to the brim, the boat will carry the bow weight no problem, but give thought to how you can close the opening if you need to. There is no serious source of water on top of a flush (or arched) bow deck ... spray, rain. It's good to close it off if you're leaving the boat unattended for weeks at a time. But you won't see any waves making it over that bow - very rare if it ever occurs. Hmm... as for the bilge pump, you could even build a small bilge pump chamber at the top of the crash chamber that the anchor rode chamber can drip into ... that would shorten the rise from the pump to the drain (out the side of the boat up higher). Just thinking out loud here ... there's always a solution. You just have to pick one and get with it, done!
Brian
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I have made some more progress. Cuddy sole installed, rear cuddy bulkhead, Flush anchor well deck installed, fuel tank supports and fuel tank floor installed. sheer decks fitted.
On the anchor well drain, I may put in a shower sump/with pump assembly, I may mount under cuddy bunk still got to look at that more.
Pics:
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Looking good. Will you be adding any reinforcements to the anchor pulpit? Is your gas tank a off the shelf model?
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The anchor pulpit will be 1.5" thick, I will laminate to the underside with some type of support, I don't know how to carve a mermaid so have to be pretty basic support. The tank is a off the shelf Moeller: 90 Gallon Marine Fuel Tank XLPE
Part Number: MOE-FT9002BR
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Brian,
I raised my sides 4" and now that I installed the aft cuddy bulkhead it I am pretty sure I was supposed to add 4" to the bulkhead. It looks low to me compared to the front cuddy bulkhead. I could just add 4" but (but not sure it was raised 4" =/-
Is there a measurement for the side ?
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Might as well update, some progress made. I built the aft cuddy bulkhead. Once the bulkhead fit I traced the doubler and screwed it together and gve it a test fit, it went in easy so I glued them together before installing, that went easy.
Now you see my dilemma, need to raise it up.
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Interesting dilemma! You raised the sides 4" (more or less)? The cuddy roof can be raised, left where it was, or you can pick somewhere between according to how the boat looks to you and how much headroom you want inside the cuddy, e.g. you've got to be able to sit upright on a bunk ... at least on the aft end.
That said, the vertical height that you circled in red (above) is about 14". Your dilemma is due to not increasing the height of the aft cuddy bulkhead the same amount that the hull sides were raised, but the f'w'd cuddy bulkhead was ... because it mounts at the height of the sheer deck. Fortunately, it's all easy enough to fix.
If it were me, I'd sit in the cuddy and decide on whether I want the extra headroom as described by the top of the f'w'd cuddy bulkhead, or if the headroom is OK if you left the aft cuddy bulkhead's roof height the same. Then I'd stand outside the boat and look at it ... would it look OK to leave the aft bulkhead the way it is and then to reduce (cut down) the height of the forward bulkhead? Or maybe it looks better if you raise the aft bulkhead's roof arch high enough to match the forward one? You can make a cardboard (or hardboard) template that clamps or screws to the aft cuddy bulkhead and draw your roof and side lines on that, then trace the top of the existing aft cuddy bulkhead onto it. Then cut out the top extension an glue it on, clamping or screwing straight edges on the face so it matches the existing bulkhead. Glass the seam with light glass (6-oz) or so and fair it in ... when it's painted, nobody will ever know. Note that if you raise the roof on the aft cuddy bulkhead, that you'll likely want to make the door opening taller too.
Anyway ... The options are up to you and it comes down to aesthetics and headroom decisions. Personally, I like the look of a taller hull versus a shorter-looking house and cuddy. It just looks more seaworthy to me, especially if combined with a tall coaming around the cockpit.
Brian
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Yes an easy fix, cut it off and made another piece and glue it back on, also raised the curb 4". I will have to adjust the aft cabin bulkhead the same 4".
When I added height to the stringers I had no idea where the bulkhead would be and just filled in 19" to meet the bulkhead.
Working on the bunks and bunk tops in the meantime.
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Nice! You do quick AND good work! Glad it all worked out! I'm anxious to see how it all turns out when it's done. Have you been dreaming up color schemes and trim ideas yet?
Brian
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Cant go wrong with white with color accents.
My favorite way to glue in place is to use a hot glue gun to put alignment tabs and drop in the bulkheads or bunk supports in this case. I have been using System Three Gel Magic to glue several spots on the installed panel. It sets up pretty quick compared to thickened epoxy then knock off the wooden tabs and put down the fillets followed by the 4" glass where required.
This pic is looking down onto the floor of the cuddy with tabs installed for bunk supports.
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Brian,
I glued the 1/4" cuddy roof down last night, glassed it on the inside with 10oz. I used Alaska Yellow Cedar for the supports. The wood strips on top (pics below) are temporary nailers I used with the stainless 316 1" brads to hold the roof's outer edge into place. I used 6 washer head screws on the center supports, pre-drilled for easy alignment when installing.
I have used a little bit of all of your designs, front cuddy bulkhead from Rockport, windshield from Newport and roof from Prince Rupert.
I hope you are ok with these changes, I like all of them!
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Yup ... mix and match all 3 designs to your heart's content!
Is that opening above the cuddy door for cuddy ventilation? I haven't seen that before, but I like it. The cuddy roof took on a very nice curve - better than the last one that I put on (which ended up with some concavity between supports ... had to fill and fair).
Have you thought about where you'll get wiring (for lights or powered ventilation) into the cuddy?
Love the progress ... you're cranking it out! Winter is coming soon ... are you planning on launching mid-winter or will you launch next Spring?
Brian
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Brian,
That opening was my 2nd mistake on the bulkhead height, it will be cut out for door opening and/or back for easier cuddy access.
When I test fit the roof it did have that concavity, then I put in the framing for the hatch (used the roof template for the arc) and the concavity did not happen.
I have tought about the ventilation, still not decided 100% but the Beckson Vent-O-Mate has my attention. I may install in the roof behind the visor just have to think on how to connect it. Not so much on the wiring, but probably under the shelf or under the cuddy bunks to the windlass and along the roof supports for lighting.
https://beckson.com/vent2.html (https://beckson.com/vent2.html)
Launching? I am shooting for next summer, hopefully early enough to enjoy it...
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You'll need holes through the aft cuddy bulkhead for wiring - I like to put them right under the sheer deck.
I've never used, but have heard lots of good things about the Vent-O-Mate. They're silent too. And since the draw air OUT, it doesn't create a cold draft. The air comes in more gently through the cuddy door.
Brian
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I installed the windshield doubler and trimmed out a couple pieces of 1/2" to add to the pulpit.
Does biaxial glass between the layers on pulpit add support? Not sure if I need to put some type of brace or mermaid underneath.
More progress pics:
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Referring to the attachment....
The direction of force on the pulpit is up and down (curved arrow). If you want to use glass between layers (or right on top) to strengthen it, noting that fiberglass has very high tensile strength in the direction of the yarn, you'd want to orient the glass so that the yarn runs fore/aft. Biaxial is fine, but there isn't much twisting force on the pulpit. You could go either way.
For your pulpit, I'd probably glass the top with some leftover 10-oz and orient the cloth so (half of) the yarn runs fore/aft... it'll give abrasion resistance as well and there's no need to introduce the extra fairing required by biax (unless between layers of wood, assembled while wet/soft or wet-on-wet under woven glass on top).
It's never a bad idea to put a knee underneath the pulpit as well. The worst and highest forces will occur in a downward direction on the pulpit while anchored, e.g. a caught anchor and a big wave lifting the boat. The knee will transfer loads to the stem and that's a good idea ... plus it looks cool :)
Looking good!
Brian
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Brian,
I like that support, I am going to use that. Off to the shop going to get windshield panels and roof mockup done.
I been thinking (haha) I plan on using 1/2" for the windshield panels rather than 1/4" with 1/4" doubler, might be easier for me.
Bob
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Brian,
I like that support, I am going to use that. Off to the shop going to get windshield panels and roof mockup done.
I been thinking (haha) I plan on using 1/2" for the windshield panels rather than 1/4" with 1/4" doubler, might be easier for me.
Bob
I used 1/2 inch for mine. Worked great!
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Cannon,
Do you mean 1/2" plywood on the deck or the pulpit is made out of 1/2" ?
I thought you had some kind of hardwood on top for pulpit, I like the look and if mine does not seem strong enough I will add something on top.
I did not get done what I wanted to, I have windshield skins mocked up and supports ready for the roof templates to mark the windshield skins but ran out of gas.
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Cannon,
Just re-read your post, I get it, you were referring to the windshield panel.
;D
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Brian,
I am having trouble understanding the windshield panel overlap with the windshield doubler. The manual shows 1/2" setback of the front edge of the windshield doubler and when mocking up the windshield panels is states to mark the cut off 1/4" outside the edge of the doubler. Is this going to leave a 1/4" ledge?
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Yes ... the 1/2" on the sides allows variation in side panel thickness, and if you use 1/4" side panels, it'll leave a stylin' 1/4" little ledge at the front end. You want stylin', right? LOL... You've got it dialed in, no problem.
Brian
PS: You're boat's looking great, BTW!
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Thank you!
I took some time off, and just getting back on task. Windshield panels are made, just have to install. Little things like this makes me feel like I can see the light at the end of the tunnel.
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Thank you!
I took some time off, and just getting back on task. Windshield panels are made, just have to install. Little things like this makes me feel like I can see the light at the end of the tunnel.
It's a long project - good to take a break now and then. You always know when to get back at it ... that's when you're ready. It's worth it in the end and about 10 minutes after it hits the water, you'll forget the time that it took to build it!
Brian
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What is the distance from the transom to just inside the boat as this is drawn? I’m looking to do something similar. Thanks
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The deck is 24" ( I will check tomorrow) and the fish box is 16-18" which I have not made my mind up yet.. soon though.
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Just decided to make fish box 18" deep so from transom to inside edge is 42"
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Thanks. Still trying to decide which way to go
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Time for an update. Mostly done with all of the under-deck structure, finished all of the fillets and taping and need to put down couple fill coats and I will be installing the fuel tank then the start on the main deck.
Glad that part is done! Some pics:
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Wow! You got a lot of work done! Nice job on insetting those deck support pieces ... adds time to the project, but as they say ... if it's worth doing, then it's worth doing right! Soon your decks will be in and you'll be working on the superstructure ... which I think is the funnest stage :)
Brian
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Insetting those pieces was the easiest part, I rounded the support pieces with a router and cut a simple pattern out of 1/4" plywood, used a 1/2" strait bit with a 3/4" router bushing, clamped the template to the stringer. It took maybe 15 seconds each.
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That is one sexy hatch!
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Yes sir, very $exy!
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I like the insetting better than using U-shaped doublers for support on the inside face of the stringers ... I hadn't thought of using a router, but insetting is DEFINITELY faster and easier than using U-shaped doublers ... good on ya!
Brian
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I finished cutting and fitting the deck, and glassed backsides of all pieces. That was a marathon for one guy.
Do I put 3 more coats of epoxy or count the glass / epoxy as coat 1?
I will move on to the fuel tank in between coats of epoxy. Do I need to close in (isolate) the fuel hose underdeck, pretty sure I must box it in all the way to the shelf.
On another note I ordered my engine, opted for a Mercury Seapro200, it is almost a year out for delivery and may be sooner just have to wait and see.
One more final sanding underdeck and paint the bilge, I am using ebond's 106 white polyamide coating.
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Wow! Nice work! Let me answer your questions one at a time:
1. Especially if you precoated the bottom-side of the plywood with epoxy prior to glassing, I recommend counting the epoxied fiberglass as the first of 3 coats of epoxy that the bottom side of the deck pieces get. NOTE that right after this 'first coat' is when you want to seal ALL plywood edges of the deck. This is only necessary for both deck pieces and the top edge of web stringers that are under the deck - you cannot built fillets that hide and seal up the unseen plywood edges, so you have to seal them very well prior to final installation and the building of fillets on the top side of the plywood. OK? I seal edges by first coating them with epoxy (a roller is great and fast for this, even though the edge is narrow) - adding more epoxy until the edges stay fairly shine. Let cure, scrape drips off the plywood faces if you have them (carbide scraper) and sand the edges - vacuum and/or wipe them off well. Mix a creamy-thick blend of silica and epoxy and use a putty knife to smear the silica mix into the edges of the plywood. Use your gloved finger to lightly rub the mix into the end grain and let it cure. Now finish those last coats of the epoxy, rolling it both onto the fiberglass and the edges. This sealing works well because a) the initial coat wicks into the wood cells and mostly seals them, then b) the silica mixture smooths and seals the end grain nicely, then c) the final coats of epoxy fill and seal - putting the finish on. Do this, and you'll never have deck rot.
2. You want to isolate the fuel components from the interior of the pilothouse and/or cuddy - the main issue being fuel fumes traveling around under-deck until they get to non-spark / spark-proof electrical devices that risk igniting the fuel fumes. It's a safety issue. In the open cockpit, this is not an issue, however. Use double clamps on all connections and try to lay out your fill/vent/fuel lines so that it's easy to isolate them from inside the pilot house and cuddy. Note that 'isolate' means under the deck too. For example, if you have a belly tank that extends forward under the pilot house decking, then make sure it's sealed on the sides and forward end (but it's OK to have a drain plug through under-deck bulkheads as long as you keep them plugged unless necessary to temporarily take them out - say for cleaning). Think through your routing of hoses and try to make it simple on yourself ... boxing-in can become overly complex sometimes.
3. A 200 hp motor is great ...
Keep the pix coming!
Brian
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I went out last night to put on a fill coat of epoxy and my shop is out of propane! Shop is cold. I just trimmed all the glass around the edges and ran a scraper over one panel. Epoxy was a little soft but not tacky. Since I only have ebonds 1289 (slow) I did not want to use it when it is that cold. No propane until Thursday. Just a little setback, I will give it a cleaning and light sanding and start again.
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On the Fuel hose, Is it ok to seal the fill hose (vent hose, fuel feed) where it passes thru the stringer with 5200?
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On the Fuel hose, Is it ok to seal the fill hose (vent hose, fuel feed) where it passes thru the stringer with 5200?
I assume you mean using 5200 around the feed and vent lines where they pass through stringers, thereby sealing the inside edges of those holes .... the alternative being sealing the inside edges with epoxy first, then passing the lines through? I think the 5200 is reliable enough for that, and it absorbs humidity and seals tighter when it's wet ... but personally, I'd think about fuel hose replacement in the future. If you glue those lines in with 5200, then they're not coming back out again. Replacement would mean drilling new holes or finding an alternative route.
Which stringers? The main LVL stringers? I'd probably drill over-size holes, then use a gloved finger to smear silica-thickened epoxy into the exposed edge grain in the hole. If you want to fill the gap around the lines with something that'll let you remove it later, I think marine RTV (silicone) would work OK for that, but I'd seal the grain with epoxy first (the reason for using a slightly oversized hole). You can also drill an oversize hole, completely fill with thickened epoxy, then drill the correctly sized hole for the lines after than ... just go through the center of the epoxy plug so you don't hit (expose) wood and you're good to go. Works for motor mount bolt holes too (highly recommended for that)
Am I off track on what you're asking?
Brian
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Yes, the gap. You're right silicone would be better to remove, just thinking about any possible fumes.
Quote" If you want to fill the gap around the lines with something that'll let you remove it later, I think marine RTV (silicone) would work OK for that,"
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Yes, the gap. You're right silicone would be better to remove, just thinking about any possible fumes.
Quote" If you want to fill the gap around the lines with something that'll let you remove it later, I think marine RTV (silicone) would work OK for that,"
Good thinking. Just either prefill with epoxy and redrill or use a finger to smear silica-epoxy inside the holes to seal the edge grain.
Brian
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Gees, I never dreamed adding an insulated fish box would take so long, but in the process I discovered (read the gougeon book) what I think is a better way to add supports for the floor. Rather than use a router which was easy and fast its drawback is when you glue in the support, hard to keep the goop in there.
Using a fine tooth saw and a chisel & wood file was just probably faster, no jig just saw at an angle and clean out the pocket. Measure the angle and cut the supports. Love it and its was super easy to apply the goop and install.
I found some epdm ribbed weatherstrip that had 3m double-sided tape that hopefully will seal the fish box.
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Still working on the fish box, the lid took quite a bit of time for me. I decided to insulate the lid, and being concerned over my BFF's standing on the lid I put in support. I had ordered some FRP and did not use it so I put it to use. Talk about overkill...
I have also put down 1/4" plywood over the foam, no pic yet.
I am closer to putting down the deck for good, need to install flanges for access ports and one more sealing coat to go.
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I think that's the fanciest fish well lid that I've ever seen! Gonna have to call you the Dado Dude! 'Have router ... will dado!'
bd
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I need therapy!
Hello everyone my name is Dado Dude and I am addicted... I have been overthinking, over building and using too much epoxy again. LOL.
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LOL ... Well, if a job's worth doing, it's worth doing right, right? :D
Brian
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Brian,
One of the hatch lids I made has a slight warp (luckily not the insulated one), I tried putting weight on opposite corners overnight but it stayed the way it was..
I wonder if putting it (warped lid) in the oven to 200 degrees to soften the epoxy and then put it on a flat surface with weight on it to correct it? Any idea?
Made some progress, I put down 2 coats of polyamide coating on complete under deck, front hatch and fish box. I made the backing for the access ports, glassed and 2 coats of epoxy on them. I may order aluminum discs for access ports and have them anodized after I drill and test fit. I even though about 1/2" plexiglass for access ports but not 100% sold on that idea.
My fuel tank is finally mounted, I filled it with water before I installed the brackets anticipating the tank growing but nothing seemed to change. Now I need to get that water out of there.
Pics:
I want a flush deck so I am taking more time building
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Wow. That’s really looking good. What’s the plan for the area just aft of the cuddy
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Ditto! Looking great, Bob!
As for the warp issue? I must say that warps that I've tried to correct always seem stronger than anything that I've tried when it comes to correcting them. Perhaps your heat treatment would work, but if you do that, then I'd force the warp back beyond flat and would bias it towards being warped in the other direction while it cools ... I would expect some spring-back, so maybe a little preloading in the opposite direction may result in the warp returning to flat instead of having the original warp in it? I'm curious to hear your results .... and in the back of your mind, if the warps bad enough, then sit in your moaning chair and think about building another one :( :)
Brian
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Maybe I will try a scrap piece in the oven first, see if I can put a slight warp in it. I will find out if the resin sets up again.
Todd, the front area is storage, life vests, bumpers etc. I do not have the compartment divided but I may.
Back to work...
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I was going to order 3/8" thick aluminum discs (two 6" and one 10") for the access ports over the fuel tank and have them hard anodized but it would be over $200. So I think I will lay up some leftover biaxial and make them close to 1/2" thick and use woven cloth on the outer layers. I can drill and countersink and install with 4200 to make the seal. or I could glass both sides of 1/2" plywood and drill the holes oversize / fill and redrill.
I ordered fiberglass 3/4" tape for the exposed edges of plywood. I coated the edges several times then let it cure to green tacky state and wetted up the tape and pressed it on.
Also drilled for the fuel fill, did it on a test piece first and still managed to do it wrong on the boat but that is what epoxy is for.
Pics:
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You're doing great work ... you boat will out-last you!
And yes, gotta love zero-volatiles non-shrinking marine epoxy .... better than wood!
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Took a day off from work, I finally got the sole down. Pre-coated all supports, rolled on the final coat of epoxy on the bottom-side of floor panels. Put clamps on the pvc pipes that are my anchor well drains and hooked up all the fuel line connections, then commenced mixing and applying peanut butter mix to all the floor supports and installed the soles.
For the fuel tank mounts and the pvc clamps I used 1/4"x 1" 316 stainless machine screws, drilled 2-step hole wetout with pipe cleaner & epoxy then filled with epoxy & west 404 using syringe before installing coated screws.
I have mixed emotions about this little bit of progress , joy and happiness!
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Looking great! One thing that I like about this boat is how much room there is under the deck, in spite of it NOT being a deep-V hull. It's a pretty nice deal.
So ... Being in Olympia, there are a lot of directions that you could go when the boat's done ... Puget Sound, Westport, Buoy 10, Columbia.... where do you expect to use the boat the most? Are you going to do boat camping? Go up SE Alaska? There is TONS of good fishing in the Prince of Wales Island area ... and camping etc. Easy shot for the boat that you will have :D
Brian
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Just cleaned it up, getting ready to put down fillets and tape on the perimeter. I was vacuuming and fell, foot went into one of the front hatches. Decided to cover the holes, hard on a leg...
I have fished Westport a lot, Columbia River(and ocean side) Sekui, Neah Bay, San Juans for shrimping but I like going to LaPush the most so far. I like Puget Sound but not much for fishing and crabbing is closed now, it used to be great.
Heading to SE Alaska is on my bucket list, I will have to check Prince of Whales Island.
Couple pics:
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...I almost fell off a house that my dad and I were building once ... a sheet of plywood was laying over the ceiling joists when we were installing rafters and was hanging over the end of the house by 18 inches. Guess who walked out to the end of the plywood when not really paying attention and barely made it leaping back onto the supported end of the plywood? I about pee'd myself with that little trick....
You've got the right boat for making the crossing to SE Alaska, and being able to live aboard while at it too ... that opens up whole new options on how and where to have a peaceful evening camping in the boat ... in comfort :)
Brian
PS: I used to fish Puget Sound nearly every weekend long ago ... doesn't surprise me that it's getting shut down though.
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Finished up with the fillets and had some time so I laminated the bow pulpit using some leftover biaxial. My access ports for my fuel tank I originally wanted aluminum but seemed too pricey, not wanting to use plywood I layed up a pile of biaxial with woven on each side and used some cheap (pillow case from the dollar store) peel-ply but it was soo cheap I almost could not peel it off, used a heat gun to help release it. I call it stick-ply.
The access ports are 7/16" so I plan to just drill / countersink the holes and use silicone to seal it up. Hopefully if I need to remove them I can get them out. If you have any suggestions for that I am all ears.
Looks like my next project with be the aft cabin bulkhead. I am
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Tunnel vision,
I didn't see this coming, my center fuel tank port is right under the rear bulkhead.
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If you ever want one of those high-speed (while on plane!) fish finding tranducers that work at speed, they mount on the bottom of the hull inside the boat and look through a fiberglass lay-up like you just made. Really nice to see fish accurately while you're going fast. The glass lay-up has to be bubble-free though, so most use vacuum bagging to help guarantee that:
AirMar Transducers (https://www.thegpsstore.com/Airmar-M265C-LH-Chirp-In-Hull-Transducer-P3080.aspx)
Nothing to snag on the trailer or to get knocked off by debris in the water....
Brian
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I would like one but I already have an Airmar 1000w B175C-12-H Just have to cut a big hole in the bottom of my boat.
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Can you elaborate on the biax you laminated? I’m interested in your plan. What’s the advantages?
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Todd,
I wanted flush hatches so I made them, not wanting to use plywood I just layed up a pile of leftover biaxial cloth I had.
I had some left over 50" biaxial, cut it 12" x 24" When it cured remove peel ply and I layed a strait edge close to the edge and cut with skill saw, then to on tablesaw to do opposite side and used a tablesaw sled to do short sides. I barely have enough to make my discs. Going to use a router with a circle cutter jig thingy, pretty easy drill a tiny hole and put a screw thru jig and set the diameter and go for it. Used that jig on the cutout for the ports and backers. Just have to drill / countersink for mounting and install with silicone. eventually I will have to remove them so will need to cut perimeter and pry out after removing screws.
Long version:
layed out some plastic on the level workbench, put down a piece of dollar store pillow case (cheap peel ply mistake)- peel ply
10oz woven cloth, wet out
add a layer ov 12oz biaxial, wetout
keep adding layers of 12oz biaxial, wetting out each coat
when it gets thick as you want it add a final layer of 10oz, it will wetout by itself being on top of the previous wetout biaxial
lay down the cheap peel ply over than and drag a spreader around it, I used a 6" putty knife until it is soaked into the peel ply
The advantages? The lids will get walked on a lot and these hopefully will be bullet proof, especially when prying out later.
You could do it with plywood overdrill & fill at screwholes then redrill and countersink would work just fine but I overthink stuff a lot, funny sometimes ridiculous at times. Hopefully I am running out of things to overthink.
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Ok. Got it. Overthinking is my specialty!
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Brian,
You will probably laugh at this. I finished with fuel tank inspection ports, the discs i made are between 3/8" and 7/16" thick. The fiberglass tape I applied to the edge of openings protruded so I used the router set to proper depth to allow 1/16 of silicone sealer and trimmed with router. I still had the template, easy. then mixed up a slurry of epoxy and filled it up.
Moved on to adding support to the front hatches, still need to put those together but pieces are cut and fit.
Life getting in the way a bit, helping my son move, Easter Sunday with grandkids so not a lot of progress.
Pics:
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Pretty slick! Are you going to just use sealant to install the deck plates? Or screws? I was wondering if or when you plan to open them for inspection and what not and what your plans are. They sure turned out cool .... haven't seen anyone else do this before and I like it :)
Brian
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Brian,
I am going to drill and countersink holes, 6 on the little ones and 8 on the big one and use sealant or make a reusable silicone gasket.
assembled the hatch covers last night, still have to cover with 1/8" plywood after glassing the underside and a couple sealing coats.
The white stuff is some leftover epoxy with white pigment I was using to fill the weave in case you were wondering.
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Have you looked at gasket materials such as soft sponge neoprene and related? Seems like it might be easier or faster to just cut out a disk of soft neoprene and I'm pretty sure it's oil and petroleum product-proof. I don't like working with goop if I don't have to :)
Brian
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You are right, neoprene is closed cell and would be just fine to seal it up.
Thanks!
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I was looking at your fuel connections and it reminded me of something. I always 2 use hose clamps where it fits. Each opposite the other. Then you have a spare to steal when one let's go elsewhere.
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You are right, neoprene is closed cell and would be just fine to seal it up.
Thanks!
Just an idea. I know that in industry, I saw soft neoprene gasket material used a lot.... :)
Brian
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I was looking at your fuel connections and it reminded me of something. I always 2 use hose clamps where it fits. Each opposite the other. Then you have a spare to steal when one let's go elsewhere.
Thats a good idea, I have 2 clamps on the fuel fill hose connections opposed like you mentioned.
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FYI - The ABYC guidelines recommend double clamps on all fuel fittings, including the vent line and return (diesel). They (and the USCG) recommend re-usable, band-type (no wire clamps), 1/2" wide band or larger (on fuel fills), rolled-edge non-cutting bands, "non-perforated" bands, correctly sized and utilized, no less than 2 clamps on each connection, and they must be corrosion resistant. 316 stainless for offshore boats. Linear equal-compression clamps, mounted 180 degrees out of alignment from each other, is recommended. All fittings and clamps are supposed to be accessible, not expected to last longer than 10 years (USCG), and should be inspected annually or more often. Enclosed spaces are recommended to have fume detection. Lots more rules on ventilation, powered or not, for semi-permeable (plastic) tanks. Speaking of tanks, I prefer aluminum and prefer zinc-chromate primer on the metal first, then a good hard bottom paint rated for below the waterline. Standing water on tanks, inside tanks, and under tanks are the number one source of failure (corrosion).
The reality is that the perfect clamp is hard to find and that 90% of the boats out there don't follow these rules .... but why? It's easy to do the research and buy the best you can find, and they don't cost much either. I just looked at a US Boating article on a 'fuel system check-up' for your boat ... and EVERY PICTURE THEY SHOWED violated the rules above ... geez! It's cheap to be the smart guy with fuel systems....
Off my pedestal... Google is your friend :)
Brian
https://www.starmarinedepot.com/ideal-clamps-non-perforated-general-purpose-1.5-10-pack/pzz22187.html
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I not sure I read the pamphlet correctly but fuel fill lines definitely need 2 clamps but the vent and hose from tank to engine look to be one clamp.
I could be wrong...
I did use the 316 stainless rolled edge clamps, $$ clamps
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Jeez, look what I started! I dread the part where I have to start following “rules”.
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Now I have to read the whole chapter again, ha,ha,ha
Better to follow the rules now than later....
Some of the mentally challenging items for me, Electrical, Fuel systems and ventilation, read, read, and read again. I am more of a hands on guy, show me how and I can do it. If I read about how to do it thats when it can become more challenging.
This is what makes these forums great, lots of input and help. Brian is and has always been most helpful in every aspect of my build and for that I am very thankful.
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Just makes good sense to me that when it comes to flammables on a boat better safe then sorry. I’m doing the whole thing, including a blower on my compartment. It’s hard to find a safe place on a burning boat. Just one retired firefighters opinion. Fire hot!!
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Note two things ... I might be wrong on the 2 clamps on vent lines being required or not (old memory?), but fuel can and does go up and down a vent line, so at least the lower connection should have 2 clamps by good practice anyway. Second, the ABYC guidelines (some call them standards) do indeed differ from the US Coast Guard (the included stuff above). In particular, the ABYC and USCG differ on things such as square inches of scupper, how high scuppers must be above the waterline etc, time to drain water out of a boat, ventilation, and fuel system requirements. This is why the plans do NOT specify these details but DO state that the builder must research local regs and comply on their own (their responsibility). Someone has to be the tie breaker on which regs to follow, noting that while the USCG publishes Standard (must-comply), that they are for commercial manufacturers. The ABYC publishes Guidelines, not Standards, that are optionally followed ... but God help you if you want to manufacture and sell boats that violate the ABYC guidelines! They may as well be standards.
With homebuilt boats, it's up to you to follow what rules you choose - but the recommendation is to follow them all as closely as you can - they were written based on real-life situations where safety turned out to be lacking. When the USCG and ABYC standards contradict, it's up to you to make a wise and considered decision on which to follow, or neither. IF you are going to build an 'inspected' boat, e.g. you want a 30-foot Kodiak and a 6-pack captain's license so you can run a charter, then you will fail your commercial boat inspection if you don't follow the standards (you can decide on the contradictory ones and which to do - take your own chance with that). From what I can see, inspections are more focused on safety items aboard than exact details on boat size versus scuppers, ventilation, or fuel systems - but you never know.
Brian
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Just makes good sense to me that when it comes to flammables on a boat better safe then sorry. I’m doing the whole thing, including a blower on my compartment. It’s hard to find a safe place on a burning boat. Just one retired firefighters opinion. Fire hot!!
One of the most common fuel related accidents that happen in Alaska (and I assume everywhere else) is for fuel fumes to sneak around through hidden passageways and under decks until the find a source of ignition ... usually the electrical panel where non-ignition proof switches and devices exist. Consideration should be given towards prevention of fuel fumes from getting to dangerous parts of the boat ... even if you buy the shine and expensive Blue Seas ignition-proof electrical components (only), you can't guarantee that you or someone else make put a non-ignition proof device in the boat somewhere.
Brian
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Just makes good sense to me that when it comes to flammables on a boat better safe then sorry. I’m doing the whole thing, including a blower on my compartment. It’s hard to find a safe place on a burning boat. Just one retired firefighters opinion. Fire hot!!
One of the most common fuel related accidents that happen in Alaska (and I assume everywhere else) is for fuel fumes to sneak around through hidden passageways and under decks until the find a source of ignition ... usually the electrical panel where non-ignition proof switches and devices exist. Consideration should be given towards prevention of fuel fumes from getting to dangerous parts of the boat ... even if you buy the shine and expensive Blue Seas ignition-proof electrical components (only), you can't guarantee that you or someone else make put a non-ignition proof device in the boat somewhere.
Brian
Very good point and well taken. Its scary to think about a fire on a boat and makes me think even more about how important ventilation is underdeck.
I do have plans for passive ventilation and I have also purchased a Jabsco 35760-0092 Heavy Duty Flangemount Blower, I have not decided or figured out where to install it. I could mount it up near the cuddy bulkhead in front hatch drawing air from both side underdeck compartments and exhaust thru roof or mount at rear fishbox bulkhead drawing air from compartments below but I would still have to have air inlets from roof to the front compartments underdeck. I have more t ime to think about that and would like to use the passive, they do make solar roof vents that can be incorporated, the jabsco may be more than I need.
It may be a pain to vent thru cabin roof I would have to box in the windshield/ side panel so I may see about venting thru cuddy roof instead.
On 20th thought, I may vent thru the anchor locker, may be the best option,
Some preliminary ideas:
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I put the skins on the bottom of the front hatches, I put down 10oz glass and 2 fill coats before bonding to the framework and used the router with flush trim bit and followed with a 3/8 round bit. Way overkill but the lids do not flex.
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Wow... those are some hatch lids. I might have to follow your construction method and make some when I get there. I think I would kind of prefer overbuilt so the hatch lid isn't flexing or giving underfoot. It's kind of unnerving when that happens and you aren't expecting it when it's rough and you are concentrating on something else. Good stuff about the ventilation that I had no real idea about. It makes me wonder what else I have no idea about. :)
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Yeah ... those are the best hatch lids I've seen!
Ventilation: You have aluminum tanks? If so, no ventilation required but passive is not a bad idea. ABYC/USCG rules on ventilation require the incoming air to come from outside the superstructure. An inline blower and a sheer deck (rear facing) vent works well. You can make your own too ... just a hood over a hole, but there's a baffle in front of the hole to keep water from flowing in and a top baffle to keep splashes out:
PS: If adding ventilation, I would ventilate only the fuel tank compartments, using outside air and exhausting outside. Bilge, if sealed from fuel tank compartments, doesn't need ventilation ... just open access during long term storage to drain and dry. Inside cuddy and house, passive ventilation for most people is fine.
PPS: The vent below is also handy on top of the pilot house roof for passing wiring from inside the house to gear on the roof if necessary. If you make the top screw-down, then it's removable to help route the wires.
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Brian- I love that design! I have been thinking about the same issue. Aluminum tank, to ventilate or not. With a sealed tank coffin there can still be fumes that can enter the bilge through the openings for hoses unless they are carefully sealed. With that in mind the blower seems like a good idea. Having the blower ventilate the entire bilge would also catch any fumes from the tank coffin, no?
I assume you would recommend an intake and exhaust vent?
Ken
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Brian- I love that design! I have been thinking about the same issue. Aluminum tank, to ventilate or not. With a sealed tank coffin there can still be fumes that can enter the bilge through the openings for hoses unless they are carefully sealed. With that in mind the blower seems like a good idea. Having the blower ventilate the entire bilge would also catch any fumes from the tank coffin, no?
I assume you would recommend an intake and exhaust vent?
Ken
The exhaust vent can simply blow into the cockpit area - doesn't matter where, as long as it goes somehow into the open cockpit area. It's best if the tank area has no air passages to other under-deck areas. That's easier than trying to vent everything everywhere. I like to put centerline drain plugs through all under-deck bulkheads, but plug the ones that lead into and out of the fuel tank space 'coffin'. If you've got air passages from the fuel compartment into other areas, now is a good time to open things up if you need to and to seal them, e.g. caulk where fill/vents etc go through stringers etc. MOST fuel fumes issues are on poorly maintained boats that have developed untended leaks in bad places or have tanks that have corroded through. If you seal nothing else, seal the under-deck bulkhead leading into the cuddy area where fumes could build. I expect that a fumes leak into the pilot house would a) be noticed, and b) would be hard to reach a high enough concentration to ignite.
bd
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On the Hatch Lids,
Originally added 3/8" with 10oz glass between the layers and another 10oz layer on top of the 3/8" thinking it would be strong enough.
In testing I supported the ends and stood / bounced and could tell it flexed but I did not consider that the hatch lid would be captured by the support it lands on on the longer sides so testing should have been to test flex on the short side. It may have been enough..
So if I were to do it again I may not have needed all the extra support and if I were to remake I would omit the 3/8" and just add the perimeter and cross support pieces and put the 1/4" on top with glass on the inside because of the glass being in tension.
I believe I could drive a truck on them now, could be used for loading ramps.
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Better to be too strong than vice versa! Others will benefit from how well you made yours .... extra strong or not!
Brian
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Update,
Went Turkey Hunting last weekend, not a bunch to show but I did manage to get the Aft Cabin Bulkhead clamped in place. I am going to temp mount the side panels and draw windows holes so the aft cabin windows will line up with the side windows.
Enjoy:
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Fun to see the house coming together :). That little bit of clearance that you show is fine .... You probably noticed that putting in the aft house bulkhead is tough enough on it's own.... the extra clearance makes it a little easier to get the bulkhead in place. Looks like you can fill it by letting the lower side panels of the house fit into it, but either way ... it'll get filled one way or another.
Brian
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Is this the correct lower side panel / aft bulkhead profile?
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Update,
Went Turkey Hunting last weekend, not a bunch to show but I did manage to get the Aft Cabin Bulkhead clamped in place. I am going to temp mount the side panels and draw windows holes so the aft cabin windows will line up with the side windows.
Enjoy:
Any luck?
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The Turkey had the luck!
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Is this the correct lower side panel / aft bulkhead profile?
Yup ... that's the way you do it. The inner edge will be straight (so sliding windows will remain slider instead of 'stickers' LOL), and with the transition shelf temporarily tacked on, you'll transfer the curved shape of the lower pilot house side panels onto it so you can cut it out to fit before installing it. It helps to have a nailer installed along the top edge of the (curved) lower pilot house side panel - no more than 1/2" thick or so. This nailer gives you something to tack the transition shelf onto, but will also act like a batten that gives the top edge of the side panel a smooth nice looking curve.
Brian
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Ok,
I made my pilot house shorter and the side panels are just under 96", so I went ahead and glassed a whole sheet of 1/4" and put on a fill coat last night. I will be able to cut the transition and lower side panels from one sheet.
Busy weekend, birthday parties, land clearing, track came off excavator...
Fixed the drawing:
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Yeah, I noticed the orientation of the nailer before and neglected to mention it. Having in the vertical orientation will allow it to bend. You could use 2 layers of 1/4" ply as the 'nailer' too, putting one on at a time, so that the curve would be a little more pronounced. It's just aesthetics either way. I like curves better than straight lines.
Brian
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So the lower side panels top cut line will terminate with the cuddy side panels? not on top of the cuddy roof?
I might be a retard, brain strain sometimes.
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So the lower side panels top cut line will terminate with the cuddy side panels? not on top of the cuddy roof?
I might be a retard, brain strain sometimes.
Just think of the lower pilot house sides blending right into the cuddy side panels. The 'shelf' discussed above is the same thickness as the cuddy roof (doesn't have to be, but is best if the top of the shelf ply aligns with the top of the cuddy roof ply so it's easy to fair in).
Brian
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Thank You!
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Thank You!
Blush..... ::) ;D
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Not much progress since more Turkey Hunting last weekend (Turkey won) and shrimping this Thursday thru Sunday but I did manage to get the lower sides and transition shelf glued in along with the aft cabin bulkhead. No cloth or fillets just glued in.
When I get back from shrimping I will get back at it.
Bob
Pics:
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You're cracking right along and the boat's looking great! Love the laser level ... good idea!
Brian
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I cut the nailer 5 degrees bevel which made it easy to make level on top. The only issue I have after glue up is the transition is not perfectly strait like the photos done during mock up. Maybe screwed the parts down a different order so it has a slight bow, maybe 3/16". I think I will just add (laminate) another transition piece right on top to straiten it out and keep going.
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Cracking along and neglected to glass the outer face of the aft cabin bulkhead before I glued it in. Now I get to practice my vertical glass / epoxy ability.
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Cracking along and neglected to glass the outer face of the aft cabin bulkhead before I glued it in. Now I get to practice my vertical glass / epoxy ability.
Better than upside down glassing! Did I tell you how I glued in the aft house bulkhead, top on one side of the line and the bottom on the other? Nobody ever noticed the slight inward slope of the bulkhead ... :D
Brian
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Inward slope is probably a good idea, may keep it from swinging open!
Off to the Shrimping Grounds for 4 days. yum yum..
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Inward slope is probably a good idea, may keep it from swinging open!
Off to the Shrimping Grounds for 4 days. yum yum..
Yeah, that's it ... yeah, I did that on purpose!
Have fun shrimping! It's one of the things I miss after leaving Alaska.
Brian
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I am back and making some progress slowly. Sucks counting out 160 shrimp and pouring the rest back to the sea. Pulled these from 2 pots:
I added a second layer of 1/4" to straighten out the transition and it will blend in better to the cuddy roof. As you can see I could have planned better when I placed the aft cabin bulkhead and will have to be a little creative to add a threshold that I can remove to access the inspection port.
I love the vertical polisher with 1" soft foam pad to sand back the overhang, hold it flat when you get close and it does a nice job without damage to the glass.
Next up will be vertical glassing of the aft cabin bulkhead.
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Nice shrimp ... too bad you only get 160 of them. That's just one dinner for me :D
You may be glad for adding a threshold around that port cover ... it could be a nice way to pass wiring and what not from one side of the boat to the other in a hidden way :). In any case, every boat has little oopsies ... we just hide them and tell people that's the way we wanted it :D
Brian
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I finished my vertical glassing of the aft cabin bulkhead. Not nearly as hard as I thought, actually it was easy. I pre-coated with epoxy and waited 3 hours then set the roll of 30" x 5oz glass on the floor and pulled it up to the top and used a small spring clamp to hold it at the top in one spot and smoothed it on with my gloved hands and trimmed the edges. It stayed where I put it, wow! Started mixing epoxy and rolling it on even put fillets in the corners with 4 in tape wet on wet. No pics but I will update in a couple days.
I scarfed the plywood for the upper sides and will test fit before trimming and glassing (while flat on the bench of course) Its amazing my scarfs are turning out pretty good now, at first they were troublesome.
Power planer until pretty close, 8" disc sander and a block plane until they fit together nicely which took a couple test fits.
This is after power planer, I even tried a router with a jig but gave that up. I should have taken a pic of it when it at the final stage.
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Looks as good as it gets! I've never tried the router or circular saw methods ... have always just stacked the wood, drew lines on edges, then (bosch) power plane close ... adjust to whisker thin and finish - all power plane, with sometimes a little touch up with my Stanley low-angle block plane.
bd
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I temp mounted the upper sides and marked out windows and windshield's. i built them out of 1/2" just need to cut the holes and glass, and order some windows.
Would you glass before or after cutting?
On a side note I got a call from the Mercury dealer, I placed the order sometime in January and was told almost a year wait, but it came in. Than makes me happy!
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What model merc did you decide on?
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I temp mounted the upper sides and marked out windows and windshield's. i built them out of 1/2" just need to cut the holes and glass, and order some windows.
Would you glass before or after cutting?
On a side note I got a call from the Mercury dealer, I placed the order sometime in January and was told almost a year wait, but it came in. Than makes me happy!
Great news on the motor! It motor-vates you to get the boat in the water too!
I always glass flat pieces before they go into the boat, and fair-in the seams after they're built (taper the edges of glass tape with a carbide scraper, flat/straight blade). The less glassing you do inside the boat, the better ... which means 'the easier' and 'no glassing of vertical plywood'. On plywood that will be curved when installed, you can only glass the inside of the curve, e.g. the inside of the boat side. Putting glass on the convex side makes the plywood too stiff, but works just fine on the concave side of the bend. Finally, for pieces that get holes cut out, like the sections of the windshield, I glass first, then mark and cut out the holes later .... and when they're the final size, seal the plywood edges inside the hole: Slightly round over the edges of the cut-out, brush or roll plain epoxy into the end grain until it remains shiny even after 10-15 minutes, then let cure. Hand sand all, wipe with wet cloth to clean well, then smear silica-thickened epoxy into all the end grain leaving a smooth white coat. The first step above wicks epoxy into the wood cells. The second step fills all micro-details in the wood and leaves it smooth and ready for final epoxy coats. When you apply the final epoxy coats to those pieces, just roll the epoxy onto the edges of the hole while you're at it, and clean up any drips with a swipe of a foam brush.
Brian
Brian
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Todd,
I got the SeaPro 200, originally was going to go with Suzuki or Yamaha 4 cyl 200 but at discovered Mercs new motor at 483 lbs and 6 cyl torque I was hooked.
https://www.mercurymarine.com/en/us/engines/outboard/seapro/200-300-hp/ (https://www.mercurymarine.com/en/us/engines/outboard/seapro/200-300-hp/)
Brian,
I agree glassing vertical is not as fun, I not sure if I want to roll out a full piece of fiberglass only to cut out the windows or just glass 8" wide around the perimeter and fair the overlap in. Been sidetracked again helping daughter put in subfloor and pouring concrete and troweling to a smooth finish. Took me 2 days to recover from that SOB! concrete is relentless.
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I don't mind a little waste if it makes the job easier and faster, :)
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Bob, What did you have to pay for the engine?
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A little over
19k. 18,900 with DTS
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I could change my name to molasses.
Update some pics: Not much but some progress.
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Man, I love watching these boats take shape. That looks great!
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Gotta feel good to see the house take shape.
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more candy:
Pretty nerve wracking with 2 pieces of equipment.
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Brian,
On the windshield panel's, is one layer of 9oz glass on each seam (inner and outer) sufficient or add a layer of biax?
Bob
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Brian,
On the windshield panel's, is one layer of 9oz glass on each seam (inner and outer) sufficient or add a layer of biax?
Bob
Just the one strip of 4" wide 9-oz glass tape on window joints is fine (inside and outside) .... it's tough. No biax. :)
Brian
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Gees,
75 days to get windows... Motion Windows is what I am going with, Diamond Sea Glaze was way more $$.
Clear windshields and light gray tint on everything else.
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When you get a second can you maybe post the number of windows and the cost when you get a second. Thanks
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Well it is more than I thought it would be, but tinted windows add some not sure how much.
10 windows was 3,700
on edit, Diamond Sea-glaze was $4,850 plus tax and shipping.
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A lot of people use Wynne Enterprises windows - fair price - They come in a wide variety of styles, custom fit, and different levels of sturdiness ... your choice of tint and type of glass (tempered, laminated, different thicknesses, etc):
http://www.wynneinc.com/
Just an FYI - I have purchased Wynne windows myself in the past and was very happy.
Another way to save money is to use H-Channel (rubber) and Lexan / polycarbonate for windows that don't need to open and don't have wipers on them - Just buy custom windows for what you have to.
Brian
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I will give them a try, thank you for the info.
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I will give them a try, thank you for the info.
They're worth a look and the wait time usually isn't too bad. They have 'clamp in' windows that do not require holes or screws in your preciously epoxy encapsulated window frames too. The inner frame screws into channels in the outer frame of the windows, clamping your plywood between. I think they can go down to 1/4" thick plywood ... but check. You may need a border strip around the window opening to thicken it up for mounting windows.
Brian
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Just looked 1/8"-2 1/2"bulkheads
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After a lot thinking and mocking up the sides again I moved the windows down so they would line up better with the windshields. Still have port side to go.
I glassed both sides of the upper sides with 4oz.
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Oh man. That’s awesome!
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Looking great :)
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Looks great! You nailed the alignment!
Make sure there is enough boundary around each window for window frames to fit - Different brands will overlap the wood varying amounts.
Brian
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I installed the port side yesterday, I ran some blue tape along the pencil line I drew when test fitting, my contractor had an 8' strait edge I borrowed to make the line. Install was easier than the other side, used the 1" brad nail gun and some small blocks covered with packing tape to make it stay in perfect alignment. the other side I had rolled epoxy on the transition shelf then applied the glue and the blocks were slippery making it a little more challenging. Learn as you go..
I will do the fillets and 4" tape on the seams today and cut the aft windows out, should have done that before bulkhead went up but I wanted to make sure windows were all somewhat uniform.
Couple pics:
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From here, the alignment and style, fit & finish all look really good. Including space for windshield wipers. It's going to be a nice boat :)
Brian
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"cut the aft windows out, should have done that before bulkhead went up"
Actually I am glad I did not cut them out, I ended up moving those down also to match up with side windows at the top. I made them 28" tall, hopefully looking aft from the helm will have a better view.
I did not get the fillets and taping done, connected upper/lower side aft where transition is and front transition where meet windshield.
I should have used a strait edge when gluing in the front windhsield frames, I pushed them in tight to the windshield doubler, maybe because of the angle not sure but they have a slight bow inward just at the bottom which I will have to fill before I glass the front.
Dang, wife needed here horse trailer tackroom floor replaced.... priority changed for a couple days.
Pics:
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Suggestions or advice please,
Contemplating / planning for foam sandwich roof, building off of the boat because I don't want to do it on the boat, its hot up there and a long ways down, scared....
In my busy mind I have tried to figure out whether to do a female mold or male mold (slat mold type). First thought was a male mold, screw down / clamp the 1/8" (3mm) then 1/2" corecell and then 1/4" okume, secure the foam and 1/4" from backside. I think I would have to do the 1/8" and foam at the same time, then add 1/4" for the exterior. Wait for cure, then turn it over to glass the inner surface..
I planned for 10% spring back but it seems the glass on the underside would help the most with this issue rather than the sheer of several layers epoxied together.
Which led me to think more about the female mold, attaching 1/4" then the 1/2" corecell, then 1/8 (3mm) at the same time seems to be a good plan, maybe all 3 layers at once, keep mixing and keep applying.
Glass it while it is still in the mold on the interior surface before taking it out of the mold.
I see a few have done it but what I have found is mostly build on the boat style.
Anther question, How much gap between the aft cabin door and jamb should I allow?
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I’m interested In using lighter materials up high as well. I’m so far behind you I haven’t really thought much about it. I had a hard time following your male/female versions of the mold. Other than working on the ground, is there other advantages to building off the boat
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First I must apologize for my ramblings, Brian is much better at explaining things, he makes it look easy.
The only advantage of building off of the boat is easy access to your work. I dont like the idea of dragging plywood and glass and epoxy on top of the roof while it is on the boat and working up there. Its getting hot here and its darn hot on the roof...
One advantage is you can glass the inside of the roof (4oz should be plenty.) when still in the female mold which adds a great deal of strength as glass is strongest when in tension, like when you stand on the roof. Standing on the roof places the underside in tension and the topside in compression.
Here is some reading on foam sandwich: https://bateau2.com/howto/foam1.php (https://bateau2.com/howto/foam1.php)
And a video which helped me understand: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwABZT2pIn8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwABZT2pIn8)
,in the video although they have foam stripped up for a much tighter bend, I am only guessing that the small curve of my roof will be manageable with the corecell foam which is roughly 40" x 80" and the plywood seams should overlap nicely.
Okume is the most expensive but it is light, I plan on 1/4" on the outside roof and 1/8" on the inside.
Not sure you ever need to stand on a roof though.
Might be a little overkill but 3 sheets of 3/4" particle board with 2x4 backers and 1x2 slats, I can cut one mold out with a jig saw and use it for a pattern and cut the rest with a router and template bit..
Drawing of female mold:
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Wow! You have put some thought into “ramblings”. Makes more sense to me now. I did check out some youtube videos on glassing foam. Very promising.
How long did i it take you to be able to use sketch up? Do/did you use it professionally. I have a sketch up copy for “a ten sided thingy that made your head hurt”(your words if I remember right) from another board. I can’t open it. Have you explored it any?
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yes, Sketchup made my head hurt. I hate the online version they have now, crashes and locks up on me.
When I first tried SketchUp after about an hour I removed it from my computer...
I came across a website Jays Custom Creations, you can download version 8 which you do not need a license for and he has tutorials and keyboard shortcuts and I have watched them all several times.
That was a game changer for me. The 10 sided thingy I still cant figure out, wrong version and wont open but I get the idea of the design.
Link:
https://jayscustomcreations.com/sketchup/ (https://jayscustomcreations.com/sketchup/)
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That's a great tip! Thanks rbob! I have been trying to figure out sketchup for a while, could never quite wrap my head around it. Looks like there is a nice long list of example videos that I can play with in my spare time to learn the ins and outs.
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Not sure what you mean by gap between cabin door and door jam? And which door? Cuddy door or pilot house?
On the roof construction, there's nothing wrong with doing it off of the boat and then putting it in place when ready. Either mold will work Nice thing about a female mold is that you can place weight (sand bags?) inside to press the roof into the mold. On a male mold, you have to put a row of clamps along the outer edge to hold the roof down.
Spring back? If the roof springs back after removing from the mold, it'll pull back into shape when installed. No worries.
Suggestions:
- I would still use 2 fore/aft roof stringers to support the roof over the pilot house... one on either side of the center companionway. The are also handy for providing handles or grips (see the plans manual). The foam roof w/thin ply outside and in is very strong, but the stringers will give the roof more weight capacity and stiffness.
- Be sure to build in 'nailers' (stringers) that run fore/aft or athwartships inside the roof so you have something to screw into for roof-mounted items such as antennas or whatever. You can also provide solid wood 'hard points' (square areas) instead of foam for those areas as well - nice for cable pass-throughs or vents etc. And I know it's difficult to do sometimes, it's a good idea to use a drill bit to make a shallow dent on each end of the stringers' centerlines or corners of hard-points. Later, after the roof is painted and you've lost or forgotten the details, these little divets tell you where the solid wood is when you go to mount stuff. Just sand them a tad so there's no sharp corners around your little countersinks, and coat w/epoxy and paint as always.
Brian
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Excellent idea on those divots, Brian.
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Finished the fillets and glass tape on the windshield inside panels, window sides inner and aft bulkhead in and out.
Roof rails are in the works:
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Boat side lined for a bit, working on honey doo's and taking a 5 day fishing trip to LaPush for ling-cod, sea bass and hopefully some salmon.
Still need to make my roof form but I went ahead and made the pilot house door. Not quite finished glassed one side, when I get back I will keep on. some pics:
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Have fun on the trip! The door looks good .. and will stay flat :)
Brian
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Rbob, I think I may have lost you, but you seemed to write that the ⅛" sheeting would be on the outside and the ¼" on the inside. Ignoring any structural issue, I would be inclined to put the ¼" on the outside/top. While you would have blocking in the sandwich on which to mount things -- radar/antenna/lights/etc., having the extra material over the whole roof would provide more protection from wear and tear and give you something to mount some small device outside of the blocking.
My $0.02 te
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All good Tom,
You are correct, I think I was talking about the male mold putting down the 1/8" inch first which would be the inside.
In my busy mind I have tried to figure out whether to do a female mold or male mold (slat mold type). First thought was a male mold, screw down / clamp the 1/8" (3mm) then 1/2" corecell and then 1/4" okume, secure the foam and 1/4" from backside. I think I would have to do the 1/8" and foam at the same time, then add 1/4" for the exterior. Wait for cure, then turn it over to glass the inner surface..
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Back from LaPush, Salmon Fishing sucked (have to release native Coho) but limits everyday of Rockfish and Ling Cod.
Slow progress but it is moving, have to finish a house porch addition in the next couple weeks which will put a **** in the boat build.
I did get the mortise latch cut out, it was my first attempt and I had the help of a friend who knew more than I and he had the sharpest chisels I have ever seen (scary sharp). My eyesight sucks for close up detail work so I am not super proud but happy it will suffice.
Started gluing up the door jamb, added 3/4" CVG Fir and will add a 1/4" plywood spacer then another 1/2" plywood that will protrude 3/4" inward to install the door seal onto.
Clamped strait edges to the top and sides.
some pics:
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Did you end up deciding where to buy your windows?
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Looking good and doing a great job ... Say, that's awfully pretty wood that your boat/deck/superstructure is made from. Is it Okoume? Maybe you should finish the whole boat with varnish :D
Brian
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Todd,
Leaning towards Motion Windows. They were 7 weeks out last I talked to them. Diamond Seaglaze was way more money and even though they dropped their price from the original bid 15% I think I will pass driving into Canada to get them. Motion Windows is about 1 1/2 hour away.
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Brian,
Yes, Okoume, it is about 1/2 the weight and twice as much $
I did not show the door jamb detail, the door is 1-1/4" thick, so I built up the jamb, it is not 5" wide like the drawing shows:
Looking good and doing a great job ... Say, that's awfully pretty wood that your boat/deck/superstructure is made from. Is it Okoume? Maybe you should finish the whole boat with varnish :D
Brian
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I messed up a couple boards, sometimes I am retarded....
So came in and took a break and looked at weatherstrips and decided to go with trim-lok. Just need to make the 1/4 inch border without screwing up this time.
Trim-lok :
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Good choice. The tube-type door seal works best (versus foam or other ideas). It's forgiving and works. :)
Brian
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Even though I am in house remodel mode, I did get the aft cabin bulkhead pretty much finished, need to do some final fitting before installing hinges on door and bulkhead.
I put 6oz tape on the opening and 3 layers on the bottom and added the 1/4" to capture the bubble seal.
more pics:
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I'm glad you're making progress in spite of those house duties ... don't I know how that goes! All that work you're putting into the door, the well thought out details and the effort you're making to make sure the door frame and door are flat and square, is going to pay off. With the seal around the door, you'll cut a lot of noise - probably will have the quietestl GA pilot house out there!
Brian
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What's going on with that hatch directly below the bulkhead?
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That was poor planning on my part. I will have to build a "chase" over it which will serve a dual purpose.
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I can appreciate the "poor planning" part extremely well. It seems that I can spend hours upon hours of trying to plan where to lay out something and I always run into a similar issue. Hell, I don't make many more boo-boos if I just "wing it" and not spend any time planning.
As I like to say in my home repair business: "Measure twice, cut once, then beat it into place with a hammer!"
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speaking of measure twice and cut once, what do you think of my carpenter/s rafter cutting ability? I fired him way too late, I discoverd all of the rafters look very similar, which is wny I am not making much boat progress...
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I received my roll of door weather-strip, it fits great, just need to get hinges and door installed.
Brian, not sure I need to glass where the door seal is installed. Can I just omit glass where the seal fits?
Bob
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Now that you have your gasket in hand how do you think that would work with a slider. Looks good
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Slider door is different, this is more of a compression seal, I am not sure how slider seals work.
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Yeah, that's a pretty bad rafter job Rbob.
On your boat - I, personally, would glass every last piece of exposed wood, whether it's on that door or not.
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I believe that the general consensus is lite glass and epoxy encapsulation on all wood is the "Best" course.
If my rememberer is working correctly, I believe it was Kent Cannon that did "epoxy saturation only" on some interior woodwork, and ended up warning us NOT to do that. The wood checked and the epoxy cracked within a year or two.
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I know it is better to glass everything but Kent used fir plywood which is very prone to checking, some people use mdo and epoxy coat only. Not sure if the okoume is prone to checking when coated with epoxy only.
Rather than regret it later I will glass it.
I guess the real issue for me is I do not want to add thickness that will prevent the door seal from fitting. I will have to glass a scrap piece of 6mm and see. 6mm is just under 1/4", crossing my fingers.
On the interior of the cabin do most people just paint over epoxy coated wood?
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If you have any worries about checking, even a light 1-1/2 oz glass sheathing will eliminate the risk. I glass everything, inside and out, for the primary hull, cuddy sides/roof, and pilot house components. For accommodations such as cabinets, seating, storage, closets, etc .... things that are inside and out of the weather, epoxy by itself is fine... this stuff is not the 'primary boat' and can be replaced if necessary.
Brian
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I installed the boat door today, I am soo happy to get this done. Still need to mortise the jamb side hinges but I wanted to make sure it had a even gap all around and it does.
I made a template for the hinges and mortised all 4 at once. I will cut the window out soon.
Pics:
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Nice job fitting everything! Did you decide against a window in the door, or is that coming later?
Brian
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Everything looks really good. NIce work
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Nice job fitting everything! Did you decide against a window in the door, or is that coming later?
Brian
The door window is marked out for cutting but I wanted to make sure no adjustment was needed to align with the other windows. It is marked on the inside and I did not check but I will tonight.
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Nice job fitting everything! Did you decide against a window in the door, or is that coming later?
Brian
The door window is marked out for cutting but I wanted to make sure no adjustment was needed to align with the other windows. It is marked on the inside and I did not check but I will tonight.
Cool ... looking forward to seeing it. VERY nice job on the door and framing!
Brian
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Surprisingly the windows will line up as marked. I went ahead and mortised the jamb side hinges and cut the window hole out:
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Outstanding work, sir!
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Thank you First Draft, but its marginal at best.. You would laugh to see me with 2 pairs of glasses on to do my detail work. If only my arms were 4 feet long.
Trying to finish up the Remodel this weekend so not much happening on the boat for a bit.
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Bob,
I have enjoyed your build. Makes a guy think about building a boat.
John
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Bob, what did you use to paint under the floor
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Thank you John, you and your boat have been an inspiration for me, love your boat!
Djeffrey,
Under the deck I used epoxy with white pigment but in the fish box and forward hatch I used Ebond 106 Polyamide coating. You will need a respirator if you use it, powerful fumes!
Still finishing up the remodel and helping my daughter paint her house this weekend (labor day) but should be back on the boat grind soon.
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Just finished with painting daughters house and remodel at home.
Time to get back on my boat build. I taped the plywood edges on all window and rear door opening. I found they make tape .5 inch wide, perfect. I rolled epoxy on the edges, 2 coats and let it get tacky before applying the tape so it would stay put which it did then rolled more epoxy onto it, even did the 1/4" edge on the aft cabin door stop.
I been putting off going into the cuddy for the inside fillets and 4" glass but today that is my goal for today.
pics:
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Rbob, "...You would laugh to see me with 2 pairs of glasses." I know exactly what you mean! My wife tells me it's especially entertaining to watch me try to work on something upside down and close to my face.
te
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I will say that I should have glassed the aft cabin door "door stop" both sides before installing, what a p.i.t.a.
I went ahead and glassed the edges of the sole port holes, cuddy door opening, both sides of the aft bulkhead door stop and the aft cuddy door.
I think I will finish installing the hatch lids, finish glassing the sole then the seating and interior before the roof.
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Well ... I will say that you're doing a great job on the glassing :) And yes, I believe in glassing everything you can prior to installation of the part ... only glassing what you have to on the assembled boat. Keep up the great work and thanks for our continuous stream of photos! We get to enjoy your progress and build process with you!
Brian
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I glassed both sides of cuddy bulkhead ( should of glassed it before I installed), the cuddy bunk tops, edges of hatches and area in front of the windshield. I also added fill coats on all of the above.
I started with the hatch Frame install but more fitting to do, need to pull the frames back out and trim a little due to interference. Building your own hatches and frames adds a lot of time to the build, I hope they are worth it.
One thing to note, the rear hatch is insulated and is a bit taller so the glass did not want to lay down over the top edge so I used some 3" wide ribbon (like peel-ply) to make it stay down. It is soo much flatter where the ribbon was, no "filling the weave" on that.
I may just get some peel ply for the floor and cabin roof, just need to justify the expense.
A few pics below but not much to show for all my work I did this weekend.
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Looks great. It will be exciting to see your project as a whole. It’s turning out quite nice.
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Brian,
When glassing the cabin sides to the sheer decks and to the boat sides can I use one piece of glass or should I use 4''x 9oz tape on the seams and then add glass to cover all...
Bob
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Brian,
When glassing the cabin sides to the sheer decks and to the boat sides can I use one piece of glass or should I use 4''x 9oz tape on the seams and then add glass to cover all...
Bob
If you're glassing cuddy or house sides after they're installed on the boat, then there's no reason you can't run the glass down and over the fillets where the sides meet the sheer deck. I prefer 9-oz over those seams and the glass on the cuddy/house sides are likely only 6 oz or so (maybe even 4 oz), so you'll have to figure out how to increase the glass on the seams, e.g. run sheer deck glass over the seams (if you haven't already glass the sheer decks). Make sense? I'm sure you can get away with lighter glass, but then I stop and think of a big sneaker wave slapping the side of the house with high weight and momentum .... extremely unlikely, but ?
Brian
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9 oz glass on the seams it is, one way or the other.
Thanks you Brian!
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9 oz glass on the seams it is, one way or the other.
Thanks you Brian!
On seams, unless otherwise called out, the only thing that matters is the total weight of glass over the seam that has 2" or so overlap onto the wood on either side. There are always lots of ways to build up to the minimum required weight (or beyond). Stacking order, wider tape down to narrower tape or vice versa, is insignificantly different. I tend to go narrow first, wider tape/glass follows, first layer 2" or so onto the wood and each subsequent layer going an inch (both edges) wider than the prior tape layer.
Brian
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The second major issue after the amount of glass you lay on to the corner, is the quantity of fibers removed or cut sanding the corner. If the fibers aren't continuous, they aren't doing squat.
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The second major issue after the amount of glass you lay on to the corner, is the quantity of fibers removed or cut sanding the corner. If the fibers aren't continuous, they aren't doing squat.
True ... If you sand the glass off, you need to re-glass it. I give hints in the manual on how to glass a 3-sided corner and get it smooth ...
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I ordered some peel-ply and going to use it on the deck and roof when I get to it. Gave it a try on the hatch covers and looks like there may be some benefit at least on the flat panels. It should make for a lot less sanding and a non issue for blush since it peels away. I purchased the 2.74 oz x 60" and for $3.55 a yard so its not a big deal comparing cost to labor and epoxy.
Pic:
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Nylon Taffeta is a lower cost alternative to peel ply, although it looks like you got a pretty good deal, so may as well stick with the real McCoy ... I'm just throwing out a point of information on the topic.
Brian
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The pic above is the imitation from Walmart, I believe it was polyester taffeta almost $5 a yard and it works good except that it was folded up and I wish I would have rolled it onto a cardboard tube cause it did not lay completely flat (folds left a line)
This pics below is the Peelply from Fiberglass supply 2.74 oz ( they do have a cheaper one)
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Lots of work done, not much to show though. I glassed the exterior windshield panels, taped the cabin transition and lower seam with 6"tape (6oz) which allowed me to put 12" on the cabin sides and shelves overlapping onto the sides. All one marathon session yesterday.
Saturday I picked up my kicker motor 9.9 Mercury Pro Kicker, no pic cause its still in the box!
https://www.mercurymarine.com/en/us/engines/outboard/fourstroke/prokicker-99-15/ (https://www.mercurymarine.com/en/us/engines/outboard/fourstroke/prokicker-99-15/)
Next is glassing the cuddy roof and bow section.
Only one pic:
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It looks great. Your cruising right along
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Wow ... your glass work is so perfect ... nice neat and straight edges, great fairing ... it's not just going to be a good boat, it's going to be a good-looking boat!
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I find it near impossible to install tape in a straight line. I haven't really cared too much on the hill. On the.inside of the.house I would like to do much less standing, filling and fairing. What's your secret?
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What's my secret?
Not sure, not that strait but the glass I used over the shelf is 12" wide so not too hard to line up. On vertical panels I have been rolling on epoxy and let it tack up before applying the glass dry, it stays where you put it so roll out glass with a little tension to avoid the wrinkles and use a gloved hand to smooth out as you go and start rolling on the epoxy till wet-out and a final wipe shower squeegee or plastic spreader and gloved finger to push glass into fillets.
On the shelfs I applied a couple feet of glass and was able to pull quite hard on the roll of glass as I rolled out 6-8 feet at a time, the tension really helped the glass lay tight over onto the sides of the boat without any wrinkles.
Learning as I go, I found if you want a really strait line put down some 2" blue painters tape where you want the glass to end, let the glass go past the tape and just epoxy part way onto the tape and cut later with a sharp utility knife. (Brian's instructions)
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Groovy. thx!
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Had the same issue on the tape. Usually the tape was on a fillet / inside corner, so I finally made a line down the middle of the tape -- dashed or whatever. Then I also folded it so the crease was in the middle length-wise and then just laid the tape making sure the crease was in the middle of the fillet. But then whatever works, right? :-)
te
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"Learning as I go"
So I learned another thing after 2 hrs of scraping the edges of the glass tape I put down... I should have not let the glass edges get so close to the fillets. s.o.b... that made for some tedious scraping.
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Another marathon yesterday, Scraped, cleaned with ammonia & water and glassed the cuddy roof, cuddy bulkhead, sheer decks again (fillet and 4" glass) Bow and Anchor section and put fill coats on the lower side panels.
Few pics:
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I like your pulpit.
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I like your pulpit too. You must be using a anchor winch or windlass? I was wondering how I would do mine. The winch is pretty good idea. Is there any support under the pulpit? How thick is that plywood?
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Todd,
Just got back from a week off. The pulpit is 3 layers of 1/2" with glass between the layers. Only fillets on the underside but Brian drew a nice support and I will add when I get time.
I added a layer of 12in biax and another layer of 6oz x 20" wide over the pulpit for added strength and abrasion resistance.
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It’s difficult to tell in the pic above, but is the pulpit added to the anchor locker deck? Any closer up pics? It sure is blended In Well
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The pulpit / anchor locker deck is one piece with 2 pieces of 1/2" added to the underside.
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Got it. Thx. Nice job!
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Detail: the roof on the anchor locker is 2 layers and I did not make it flat, when I laminated together (upside down) I put blocks around the edges and big weights in the middle to give it a slight bow, It is soo sturdy 2-3 people can stand up there.
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I think I would like to steel this! Do you have the length and width of the pulpit? May I?
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I do, its at home so I will post later.
Rbob
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Found it:
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Thanks. Your the best!
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Couple more with underside fitted before gluing in:
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Thank you!
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Found it:
I started on this deck piece today. Did you take the 16” number from the point of the bow?
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If I remember correctly I made a 1/8" template as pictured and placed it on the bow for best fit and traced the line on the underside and transferred to 1/2" plywood
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pics
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Pretty quite on the board, everyone must be working on their boats.. Its my New Years Resolution also!
I have been at it just not much to report or show for all the hours of sanding but I am on a mission. I faired the bow, windshield panels and upper cuddy sides. Just put some quickfair on some pinholes and minor blems that needed attention. Pics below.
I am going to glass the sole while I wait for the above to set. Once I get done glassing the sole I will put on a couple coats of epoxy on the bow and cuddy sides and that should be it until I get to the painting stage.
I want to finish some of the detail work before I move onto the roof build.
Happy New Year to all!
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Mission aborted after the 3rd row of glass, hit it tomorrow....
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Nice job on all that fairing ... believe me, I know how much work that is! The results look fantastic! Your boat is really going to be nice ... you work will reward you every time you look at it!
Brian
PS: Yeah ... tends to get quiet around the holidays and in the 'recovery period' right after.
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I got up early and finished the glass on the aft deck and sanded the spots that I touched up. Just got done with 1st coat of epoxy and I am happy with the way it looks, hard to catch the reflection with the camera but here are a couple pics:
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Wow! That looks spectacular
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Long day, got up and 5 this morning and just got in about 10 and put a second fill coat of epoxy on the upper pilot house, cuddy and bow.
I also got the second fill coat on the sole. Time to fit the hatch lids.
There are some details I need to work out with the helm layout and the transom door etc..
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VERY good fairing job!
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I made a little progress, at least some. Whoever wants to build their own hatches you should re-think it.. It is time consuming and labor intensive.
Making the frames to catch the hatch and provide a second step for a weatherstrip was challenging for me. I am pretty sure a interior finish carpenter or cabinet maker would have excelled in that sort of thing. I ended up (after a failed attempt) just making 2 frames on the bench and epoxied the together then pre-coated the frame and opening for the hatch and pushed them in, making sure I would have a hatch that is flush when closed. I used a brad nailer with 316 stainless brads to secure.
I opted for flush mounted hinges that open 180 degrees without binding. Not too bad just trace them I wanted them and used double-sided tape to attach some guides for the router. Flush hinges protrude in the hinge area so another set of guides to make room for the hinge barrel.
So a whole weekdend and 3 hatch frames installed and 1 hatch installed. I did not get to the latch.
Pics:
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Wow! Nice work
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Thank you Todd. Worked till 9:30 tonight on the boat to finish installing the hinges on the front 2 hatches. I have compression latches to install just need to think it thru before I drill some holes.
The middle hatch sits a little low so I need to shim the jamb, the t-square was slipping, fixable just more to do. The rest of the hatches are rock solid to walk on, I am happy about that.
Pic:
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Update:
Made a little headway, cut a big hole in the cuddy roof and plugged some holes in insulated hatch frame.
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I like it. My hatch is on back order, so my cuddy is on hold a bit. Things sure move slowly at times don’t they!
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How did you cut the long smooth curves on the pieces of wood that the hatch is sitting on? Do you have a bandsaw? Really nice job in matching the shape of the cuddy roof...
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Bob, you got some skills. Boat is looking great
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How did you cut the long smooth curves on the pieces of wood that the hatch is sitting on? Do you have a bandsaw? Really nice job in matching the shape of the cuddy roof...
I used the roof template and a jigsaw, then used 40 grit on a semi curved sanding block to make it fit nice. It was 1 1/4" tall when I started, when I got it to fit I trimmed it on the table saw with fence to make it slim as possible.
Not much progress though lately, Mother in-law passed Friday, spent time with Father in-law Saturday and Granddaughter birthday on Sunday.
I did order a Wallas heater today.
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My condolences on the family ... sometimes putting the boat aside for a bit is the right thing to do. Family's more important.
Which Wallas?
Brian
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Thank you, I bought the 30GB, I plan on putting in a portable tank outside of the cabin under a seat box. Sceptor makes some that will work, just got to make the fuel pickup 3/16". I read people have trouble with the 5psi EPA vent not working causing deformation so need to look into fixing that vent...
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008F92HJA/?coliid=I3SS65WP85K5VU&colid=H0AEYJUFI8XK&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008F92HJA/?coliid=I3SS65WP85K5VU&colid=H0AEYJUFI8XK&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it)
On another note, mounting the port soon and I remember reading mounting them level but need to make sure.
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Is the tank compatible with diesel? Usually, they're yellow or clear if they are. Never having had to buy a plastic diesel tank, I'm not sure what the differences are, whether a gasoline tank is compatible with diesel or not, or vice versa.
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Yes compatible. Just not color correct. Big label should do it, maybe find a diesel screw on cap in case I get old and cant remember.
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Yes compatible. Just not color correct. Big label should do it, maybe find a diesel screw on cap in case I get old and cant remember.
Close enough! A label would help prevent the local floating gas station from filling it with the wrong stuff...
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Even better, vented diesel cap:
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Nice....
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Working on the rear fish box, takes me what seems like forever, glass both sides and fill coats before cutting out pieces and assembling. You will notice a different color plywood, its Marine Sande plywood (not the stuff from Home Depot), its strong point is impact resistance and $60 a sheet.
Still have to cut the bulkhead for front hatch access, add doublers before installing bulkhead and a cutout for transom door.
Progress pics:
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That really looks good !
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Not much progress, birthdays and memorial service taking a couple Saturdays. That's life.
Still working on rear fish box, I wanted the inside corners to be round so I can use it as a livewell. To make the corners round I bought a cardboard tube: https://www.lowes.com/pd/QUIKRETE-Common-6-in-Actual-5-5-in-QUIK-TUBE-48-in-Concrete-Tube-Form/3017526 (https://www.lowes.com/pd/QUIKRETE-Common-6-in-Actual-5-5-in-QUIK-TUBE-48-in-Concrete-Tube-Form/3017526) and wrapped it with a layer of biaxial and a layer of cloth, easy and cheap. I cut it in 4 pieces on the tablesaw and removed the peel ply and installed. I am going to use epoxy and glass bubbles to fill the void (no cabosil) it should flow good enough to fill completely. No pics of the tube...
I will add blue dye and coat it several times before installing the lid.
Couple pics:
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Nice work! Did you find any voids in the Sande? Your's looks pretty tight...
WARNING: When you use straight epoxy to fill behind your nice curved corner pieces, do it a small step at a time ... the stuff can exotherm badly enough to reach 400 F ... not enough to ignite, but hot enough to cause damage. Can't tell (or guess) how hot YOURS will get, but experiment with how deep you can go with each pour before you just fill it and let it go... Let a batch kick off in a clear plastic cup (outdoors, on gravel or dirt) and watch the cup melt.... 8)
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I was going to mention the exotherm, I had a small pile of quikfair start smoking on me a short while back after I didn't spread it out enough and held onto too long, a pint of epoxy kicking off somewhere on a multiyear project would cause me all kinds of anxiety haha... I researched sande after you mentioned it rbob and all I found was interior grade, is there a specific exterior grade sande plywood?
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Well,
Too late for the exotherm experiment, sob.. I will report back. Its not strait epoxy about 1/2 volume glass bubbles. I think I will run back up to the shop and take its temp.
Voids in the Sande, yes a few small ones.
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Temp is luke warm after a couple hours. So I dont know how warm it got. Its a small void, less than an inch thick but its 12 inches tall.
I cut the transom door, its a 9" rise from the step that will build and will flip down inboard.
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The Sande I found is marine grade. Found it in Tacoma, not far for me. I would not use it for the hull but for anything add on why not.
https://www.awi-wa.com/products/sheet-products/marine-plywood/
(https://www.awi-wa.com/products/sheet-products/marine-plywood/)
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I was going to mention the exotherm, I had a small pile of quikfair start smoking on me a short while back after I didn't spread it out enough and held onto too long, a pint of epoxy kicking off somewhere on a multiyear project would cause me all kinds of anxiety haha... I researched sande after you mentioned it rbob and all I found was interior grade, is there a specific exterior grade sande plywood?
Edensaw is a reputable supplier and they sell marine grade Sande too.
bd
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Glad the epoxy fill didn't create any issues. Is it just my eyes, or are there tiny bubbles in the epoxy fill? If so, then it probably did get hot ... but the bubbles don't hurt anything.
You're boat's coming along well ...
Brian
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Reminds me of a song, Tiny Bubbles, in the wine!
Yes tiny bubbles but I am pretty sure they were there when I poured the thick (thicker than pancake batter) mix. It did settle just a bit so who knows.
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All done ... all good! ;D 8)
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Finally got the last of the sheer decks down. Still need to cover with glass & epoxy. I broke off about 6-7 brads and had to dig the out so I will finish this week with the glass work.
Update pics:
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Everything you do looks prostyle. When you filled the corners of the fish box can you fill it in lifts?
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Thank you for the compliment, pro style = cover your mistakes!
I seem to make plenty, I doubled up the top of the fish box, cut the hole for the hatch and marked out the inside and added the doubler.... I thought that was awesome until I tried to glue the sheer deck down and it did not fit due to the rounded corners I added, sob epoxy every where so a big rush to mark and cut the corners. Scraped back the epoxy on the corners, set the skillsaw to 1/2" deep and made 4-5 passes on each corner and chiseled the corners off and install.
Thank goodness for slow epoxy.
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Thank you for the compliment, pro style = cover your mistakes!
I seem to make plenty, I doubled up the top of the fish box, cut the hole for the hatch and marked out the inside and added the doubler.... I thought that was awesome until I tried to glue the sheer deck down and it did not fit due to the rounded corners I added, sob epoxy every where so a big rush to mark and cut the corners. Scraped back the epoxy on the corners, set the skillsaw to 1/2" deep and made 4-5 passes on each corner and chiseled the corners off and install.
Thank goodness for slow epoxy.
LOL ... Every boat has SOMETHING hidden in it!
Brian
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Even if you have something “hidden” your work is easy on the eyes. You have some skills I haven’t figured out. For one, how are you cutting the perfect reliefs for your hinges and hatches? Router I presume, but what’s the pro tip?
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Hinges I did with a router, thanks to google for figuring out how to make template's and double sided tape. Just match router bit to hinge radius.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnqP3qVjCLY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnqP3qVjCLY)
The hatch lids I used a skill saw with a guide to make perfectly strait cuts then inserted a jig saw to do the corners and a little sanding in the corners.
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Ahh you make it sound so easy
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It was easy after I did it a couple times. Videos helped a lot.
Well I spent 2 hours contemplating drilling a hole for the slam latch with a confused look on my face.. scared of ruining a hatch lid. So I made about 6 different mock ups. I will drill the holes tomorrow when I am fresh.
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Lol, I have delayed drilling my scupper holes for two months. That’s a big hole in a nice transom.
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I’m going out the sides in front of the splash well. Works in my case with the raised decks and sheer.
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Didn’t think of that. Hmmm
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I don’t know how much you can distress the transom. If you built the bracket extension who cares. It will just drain onto the swim deck. I don’t have room to build that way. My .02
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Back to boat progress, spent the day mocking up the seating and mounting the suspension to the slider, what a mis-match. Seat has 5 x 12 mount pattern as does the suspension but the slider only has 5 x 12 on one side and some bastard pattern on the other side. So my solution was to take one of the slider mounts and swap it out so the slider will have 5 x 12 on both sides. Just have to go get 2 more pieces of aluminum for the other slider.
I went with Deckmate Pontoon premium seating, so comfortable I almost fell asleep testing it.
Pics:
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Nice. Lets see those front seats
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That was a teaser! I will try to get a pic later.
Helm chair:
https://www.pontoonstuff.com/products/premium-reclining-pontoon-captains-chair?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&gclid=Cj0KCQjw09HzBRDrARIsAG60GP9p6fNxWmMfDHbQ3CaPcrQ_CI9tbjVxL6w00sLt1BMnEp-bWcLhaQ8aAjtMEALw_wcB (https://www.pontoonstuff.com/products/premium-reclining-pontoon-captains-chair?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&gclid=Cj0KCQjw09HzBRDrARIsAG60GP9p6fNxWmMfDHbQ3CaPcrQ_CI9tbjVxL6w00sLt1BMnEp-bWcLhaQ8aAjtMEALw_wcB)
$90 later and I have 2 pieces of aluminum 1/4" x 9" x 11"
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I fell off my boat, landed on my side and cracked some ribs. Off of the swim step (had moving blanket hanging over the edge) landing on my side.
After I caught my breath I mixed up some epoxy and put a tack coat around the perimeter of the rear sheer decks, layed down for a couple hours and went back up to add fairing compound to the sheer deck / side seam.
Way to painful to work right now so taking a little time off to recover.
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Oh no! Hope you heal up quick. No fun
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No kidding! Take your time to heal up properly before you get back to work! I fell 14' (ladder fall) in a shop once and dislocated both shoulders ... and tried to keep working. Take it from me and don't!
Brian
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Ouch. I’ve come close a couple times. We don’t bounce like we use to.
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I second Brian's advice. About six weeks ago, I tipped over and fractured my skull on my concrete shop floor. I won't bore you with the details but as a result of it, my balance was severely affected. After a couple of weeks, I tried to get back to work on my boat and scared myself when I started up a step ladder and immediately got dizzy again. I guess my point is, don't push it so much that you make it worse and extend your recovery time. Hope it quits hurting soon!
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Holy crap, talk about bad karma. I just fell off the swim platform head first, bruised elbow and shoulder, lacerated wrist. No more talking about falling :)
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Warning, Boat building can be dangerous!
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You guys need to put the bourbon away while working on the boat!! ::) :o ;D
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No fair trying to make me laugh!
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;D ;D ;D
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I threw away some broken window glass a few months back and accidentally left a shard hanging out of the trash. I went to grab a new jug of resin next to the trash a few days later and fully impaled my forearm on the shard. The ER doctor who stitched it up said I very narrowly missed disabling my right hand. Of course I was mostly pissed that I lost out on a solid afternoon of work sitting in the ER. That one didn't involve any bourbon but a couple other close misses definitely did hahaha. Be careful out there and feel better Bob.
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Well I can't seem to stop doing a little bit on my boat, I added the support pieces on the inner edge of the sheer decks. Need to fill some screw holes and round over the outer and inner edges before attempting to do the glass work.
I think doing the glass work will be ok, its just bending over and sanding, pushing / pulling is troublesome.
Handling 7' long pieces of trim was not hard but I certainly do not want to overdue it and prolong my recovery.
Laying on the couch all day is the worst.
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Being up and about, a bit of fresh air, is good for ya... your body will tell you if you're overdoing it
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Making and taking baby steps but I managed to install and glass the sheer deck support/trim and do the upside down glass work.
I Applied a tack coat of epoxy, wait 3 hours, apply fillets and wait a couple hours and put the cloth in place, pressing it into the fillets and three 90 degree corners.
I used slow hardener (not by choice) but it gave me lots of time between sessions to rest / recover.
I put on 2 fill coats after the initial wet out and was done at 11:30 last night.
Pics:
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Looks good. Got a shot of it straight on from the center of the cockpit?
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How about this:
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That transom really looks good. I wish my building was 2 feet longer! That is really what I wanted to do. Maybe on the next one.
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Working on Seat Box's again, box's are 10" tall and I need to make a 6-7" platform to go in front of these box's. Scared to commit just yet because I need to figure out my helm layout.
Couple more pics"
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Bob, I agree it was hard to figure out seat height without at the very least a steering wheel. I went ahead and bought it all, wheel, power steering and cables. Mocked it up and then built my boxes. Looking great. Getting fun.
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Making a bit of progess, I glassed the rear sheer decks with 2 layers of glass yesterday and put on a fill coat this morning. Up till 11:30 again last night, I am worn down so going to take it easy today.
Pics:
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It's coming together SWEETLY!! Your design decisions are turning out great, and you're doing Bristol work! (not that Palin kind of bar-fight bristol .. the GOOD kind instead!)
bd
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Still doing baby steps but I applied fairing compound and will start working on helm and seating while it hardens enough to sand:
Not looking forward to sanding with sore ribs.
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Whole Lotta Sanding going On!
Not much to show but I figured I would post, starboard side is faired as well as the sheer decks maybe get the port side faired by tomorrow night. Still working during the day and sanding 2-3 hours in the evening which is about all I can do with these sore ribs..
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You're doing fine work ... really looking good :D
Don't do too much and re-injure those ribs!
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Looks great as usual!
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Taking tonight off, ribs are a little sore from too much sanding...
Need to take it easy, sob.
I will do less physical boat projects for a few days, still have seat boxes to glue down, and helm work.
Thanks for the kind words!
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Looks fantastic. What is your plan for the roof?
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Looks fantastic. What is your plan for the roof?
Not fall off of it!
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Looks fantastic. What is your plan for the roof?
Not fall off of it!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :o ::) 8)
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Hey, I'm looking at all those window openings. Where are ya buying them? Tempered or laminated?
te
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Hey, I'm looking at all those window openings. Where are ya buying them? Tempered or laminated?
te
Probably going to go with Motion Windows.
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Whole lotta nothing happening fast here.
Ordered the hydraulic steering and ready to mock that up and in the meantime I have nearly completed the helm, glove box, chase for fuel fill and compartments in front of seating.
Pics:
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Your doing a super clean job. That will pay off when you go to paint. Looking great
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Spent the last week reading all 42 pages of your project, thank you so much for sharing.
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Thanks for reading it, I have been making some progress just not enough to make a post but soon.
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Rbob, do have any more pictures of your deck hatches. I like how they are relatively invisible. I need 1 in the house and maybe 3 in the cockpit. I want to use all my glorious under deck space, but don’t wAnt to be tripping on hatches all over.
I found a hatch builder that does custom square flush hatches, but what you did is nicer
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I have a few, they are overbuilt mainly because of one friend that weights close to 300lbs and they do not flex when he walked on them. Depending on the size of the hatch 1/2" and 3/4" with glass in the middle may be stiff enough.
I originally bought latches but other than the fish box I wont be using them, probably just drill a hole big enough to get a good size finger into.
Pics:
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Thank for sharing your work once again. Did you install any drain on the lip that support the hatch? Can water fill the little trough you created and spill into the compartment?
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I did not install drain and I am hoping the seal does a fairly good job keeping most of the stuff out of the fish box. Not worried about the ones in the wheelhouse.
I thought about it but talked myself out of the extra trouble (for me) Fish in the box wont be there more than a day so if a little water ( fish slime etc) gets in there I dont think it will hurt anything.
I am getting side tracked till next Thursday, leaving tomorrow to do some shrimping in the San Juans. That should help my attitude.
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Another thought, the support can be cut out of 2x material and notch it for the support and you could even leave enough room around the perimeter to add an adhesive type bubble seal. The seal you should figure out first then make the clearances match the seal.
Here is a pretty narrow one:
https://www.amazon.com/Trim-Lok-D-Shaped-Rubber-Seal-Sensitive/dp/B00NL4BKKG/ref=sxbs_sxwds-stvp?crid=3LB88QRDXPYUZ&cv_ct_cx=d-shaped+rubber+seal&dchild=1&keywords=d-shaped+rubber+seal&pd_rd_i=B00NL4BKKG&pd_rd_r=32e5fdb2-686f-4cb8-bfc0-5598786ce6b3&pd_rd_w=K2BCv&pd_rd_wg=uhs1f&pf_rd_p=183579a1-f0e6-4556-8e39-8fe08e8f8141&pf_rd_r=V6FP51E7792X8M81SGMX&psc=1&qid=1590887536&sprefix=d-shaped+%2Ctools%2C269&sr=1-1-dd5817a1-1ba7-46c2-8996-f96e7b0f409c (https://www.amazon.com/Trim-Lok-D-Shaped-Rubber-Seal-Sensitive/dp/B00NL4BKKG/ref=sxbs_sxwds-stvp?crid=3LB88QRDXPYUZ&cv_ct_cx=d-shaped+rubber+seal&dchild=1&keywords=d-shaped+rubber+seal&pd_rd_i=B00NL4BKKG&pd_rd_r=32e5fdb2-686f-4cb8-bfc0-5598786ce6b3&pd_rd_w=K2BCv&pd_rd_wg=uhs1f&pf_rd_p=183579a1-f0e6-4556-8e39-8fe08e8f8141&pf_rd_r=V6FP51E7792X8M81SGMX&psc=1&qid=1590887536&sprefix=d-shaped+%2Ctools%2C269&sr=1-1-dd5817a1-1ba7-46c2-8996-f96e7b0f409c)
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Making slow progress, rear steering station and battery box is in progress. pieces cut today and glassing them before the install.
Helm and seat boxes are done, still need to mount up the heater so the list keeps getting longer.
Pic:
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Good advice, Ed! What's the status on your Great Australian? Did you sell the hull?
bd
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Back from shrimping and not much to report for boat progress, worked on helm and fitted the fish finder and Vessel View gauge.
Working on battery box, rear helm and storage for portable diesel tank for Wallace Heater.
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Looks outstanding. You know that at some point you are going to have to get a roof on there? 😆
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I am enjoying the ventilation and great lighting! Soon as I finish up these small items I will be onto the roof, cant wait.
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How was your shrimp trip? Something I’ve wanted to try
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Weather was good and shrimping was good, easy to do just put in some catfood and send it to the bottom.
I only took one pic:
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I am making it as complicated as I can, and it is taking more time than I though... but battery box is in, going with 2 6-volt house batteries under the rear helm. Still have not mounted the shift assembly which needs consideration for the cable routing.
If you have suggestions I am all ears.
Pic:
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Can't tell if it's glued in already or not, but if not, have you considered raising it off the deck ... toe room under it while using the rear helm? I sure like the dual helm... nice!
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It is glued in, the helm sticks out about 3 inches further than the battery box so I do have toe room.
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It is glued in, the helm sticks out about 3 inches further than the battery box so I do have toe room.
Ah ... cool, and you won't be standing right up against the helm either. Sounds like you've got plenty of room...
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Building a mock up for the shifter, I will have to close in the bottom part. The pic of the port side will hold the aux diesel tank and storage under a seat.
Pics:
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Look what i drug home:
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What a beautiful trailer! You're going to like that. Your battery boxes are in my favorite spot for them ... from a CG and usefulness perspective, battery wiring not too long ... weight near the aft house bulkhead ... acts as a seat or step up to the sheer on the port side. Good on ya....
bd
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I have the same trailer... Watch the most forward brace, it will be very close to you keel. We had to add a beefed up brace and a keel roller to avoid the bolts. Let us know how it goes once you load you boat.
Mark
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Thanks for the heads up!
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Great looking trailer!!!
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Thank you Chuck, been a little over 4 years since I bought my kit from you, I was hoping to do this a little faster but working full time and life gets in the way.
I am keeping an eye on your build and cant wait to see it finished.
A shout out to Word Boats.
http://www.wordboats.com/listings (http://www.wordboats.com/listings)
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Thank you Chuck, been a little over 4 years since I bought my kit from you, I was hoping to do this a little faster but working full time and life gets in the way.
I am keeping an eye on your build and cant wait to see it finished.
A shout out to Word Boats.
http://www.wordboats.com/listings (http://www.wordboats.com/listings)
So welcome. Your build is looking real good. I get so many good ideas from watching other builds.
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I am having eye trouble, I cant see staying home to work on my boat for the next 3 days when shrimp season is open and limits have been increased to 120 spot shrimp.. Yum!
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I can see a roof in my future, as well as a few other things. Going with foam sandwich roof, 1/4" okume, 1/2" pvc foam and 1/8" okume for top layer.
Making a roof mold was time consuming but it is stout and I can walk around on it and I am not on top of my boat trying to work in 90+ up there. Comments and suggestions welcome.
Gunnel shelfs with conduit run for kicker shift cables from rear helm and shift console for front helm.
Pics:
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Very cool. I was hoping I would be ready to put the roof on my boat this winter when temps are much cooler.
Did you have any trouble finding 1/8” okoume?
Will you still need the fore-aft roof supports?
It will be exciting to see how it turns out
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No trouble finding okume, just be prepared to hand out the greenbacks! I bought 4mm and 12mm, and I need to look up what I paid, it is really light weight so I hope there is economy in there somewhere.
I just checked Edensaw and they list 3mm 3-ply. I will take a close look at mine again, it has probably 5 layers.
Roof supports, I do have fore / aft supports but they are not going to be notched into the aft bulkhead or windshield support. Crossing my fingers, I am in uncharted territory on sandwich construction. No planning on having a bunch of weight up-top so we will see.
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Yes okoume is expensive. I’m using on all the superstructure. My supplier says 1/4” is 7 pounds lighter than hydrotech. I’m sure your roof will turn out great
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The 4mm I bought was $60 a sheet, not that bad considering I only needed 3 panels. Correction, I did not get 12mm, it was 6mm (1/4")
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Even though it seems spendy, the plywood is not the biggest part of the price for building one of these boats... buy the best!
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Been making sawdust while waiting for roof lamination's to dry. I cut out roof hand rails that will go on the inside of the boat and saved the fall off to cap on the outer roof structure. Used a router template which was really nice but takes time since you can only remove so much on each pass, 1/4" was a bit much so 1/8" - 3/16" took quite a few passes but I wont be spending a bunch of time sanding...
Rounded the edges while the board was still one piece, then cut it up and rounded the exposed corners, the roof slope is 3.5 degrees where they mount so I cut to match the slope.
I need another 1/4" sheet to finish the roof blocking so a trip to town tomorrow.
Once blocking is in I will use 3m fastbond contact cement to install the foam and outer skin.
Couple progress pics:
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Those look really nice. When I did The grabs in my cuddy I used a holesaw and jigsaw. Finished them off with a carbide burr. I don’t have experience with routers. You make it look easy.
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I fitted the grab rails while waiting for epoxy to cure on the roof lamination, I will put the last piece of the perimeter blocking tomorrow. This weekend I will give the foam a try. This sandwich roof is taking extra time but I am enjoying seeing the last pieces come together.
Pics:
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Your grabrails really turned out nice ... the template and router did a great job (in your hands :) ) ...
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Thanks to Youtube, I had no clue how to use a router.
On the curb / visor, my roof will extend 16" past the aft cabin bulkhead and I was thinking of stopping the curb just short of the aft bulkhead instead of running it full length so water can run off the side. I am worried it may look odd not extending full length.
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I'd mock it up, stand back and take a look at different ideas. Note that there's nothing at all wrong with putting strips of wood on top of the house roof to guide water to where you want it to drain, or to have a drain hole through the side curbing ... it looks and works fine. I believe it's very important to have water drain onto an area with no windows ... water on a window wrecks visibility, encourages eventual leaks into the boat past the window, and means you can't open the window for a little ventilation on a rainy day. The same concepts apply to diverters on the sheer deck to force water over the side instead of into the cockpit or even the dry well (splashwell).
Brian
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Mocked up, I could direct water to area without window, if I go most of the way back water will enter the rear deck helm station.
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I think you nailed it ... that's a perfect spot to drain the water off. Add a little diverter on the roof to direct the water to the side ... And the mock-up of the 'curb' or 'visor' looks great too :D
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Slow grind going on here, I wanted to get the foam glued down today but didnt happen, it will tomorrow. I put tapered dowels in the grab rails as cheap insurance against rails splitting when people attempt pull ups. Grab rails are glued in and filleted.
Update Pics:
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My timing is impeccable, I had a great idea to put on 2 coats of the fastbond and glue down the top skin, its midnight and just 45 min to go before I can put down the last 2 pieces.. Pics tomorrow. My wife is helping me, glad I have an understanding wife.
I used dowels when putting down the foam just like you do with formica, my painter suggested to do what his dad does (upholstery guy) lay down some plastic, slide it around and pull out a foot at a time and roll it down. That works amazingly well.
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Going to be a long day at work, looks like I will put some epoxy in the seams tonight and put down some 4oz glass with filler coats this weekend. I used 2 putty knives to put a tiny gap between the 4mm okume so the seams will be easy to fill.
Pics as promised:
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I managed to get the roof seams faired and glassed the roof with the help of my wife mixing epoxy. I still need to add a fill coat which will be a little later tonight and will be using peel-ply on the roof outer and inner surface.
I marked out the overhang on sides and windshield before applying glass.
I am hoping for only one fill coat with the peel ply, unless Brian suggests more.
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Looks great from here!
"Waterproof" is 1 properly-saturated layer of fiberglass plus 2 'fill' coats, or 3-4 coats of epoxy on bare plywood (3 coats is marginal and I think, not reliably waterproof on softwoods). You'll know by looking at it ... smooth and glossy is a good sign, anything dull or inconsistent in shine and smoothness isn't.
Brian
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Ok,
After the first coat was tacky, I applied a generous coat of epoxy and put down the peel ply. Its non eventful and does not look like much but it will fill the weave without scraping, cleaning and sanding. Peelply is a golden on the big surfaces.
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Peel Ply is amazing stuff. I ordered some to try it out and once I tried it I ordered another $400 worth of the stuff. It is now my favorite friend saving me sooooo many hours of sanding
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I will add one last coat of epoxy as Brian suggests, I know without peelply you do the initial glass wetout, add a fill coat, scrape sand etc and add a 3rd coat. The fill coat is to basically fill the weave and a topcoat for protection. How much gets sanded away is a guessing game.
I think with a digital caliper one could do 2 test panels of the same thickness and compare peel-ply 2-coat vs 3 coat sanded/scraped epoxy and/or make the panels exact same size and weigh the samples before and after the coatings.
I may give this a test, and report the findings.
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Good plan. Use that 3rd coat. It's not that much material is removed by scraping and sanding, noting that you should lightly sand even after using peel ply, but more about the thickness of the epoxy resin itself. I doubt you'd end up with any too-thin regions after glassing, especially with peel ply, but for the cost and effort, why not? Pilothouse roofs end up storing stuff ... fish nets and gear, rafts, etc ... it's a good area to protect with glass, epoxy, paint...
Brian
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What is amazing is the almost invisible seam the peelply leaves behind. There is a seam where the glass overlaps that I will scrape / sand before adding last coat of epoxy tonight.
First pic is peelply on part of the roof, second one showing peelply seam which was hard to capture on pic.
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You already know about making sure there's no residual amine blush before adding more epoxy, so I won't mention that ... but you know, subsequent coats of epoxy just need to have the shine removed from the previous coat (unless the prior coat is newer than 36 hours old, plus or minus). You can take the shine off, without removing epoxy that you want to keep, by just lightly scraping ridges, specks/bugs, bumps off first then put your random orbital on top of a green scrubbie and 'sand' the epoxy. The random orbital sander does a great job of scrubbing epoxy with a green scrubbie ... takes the shine right off without actually sanding. Folks not using peel ply may have more of a weave pattern left that needs to be filled, so sanding helps ... green scrubbies alone may require more fill coats to get it all smooth (MY opinion is that the only smooth, shiny, faired surfaces should be those between the waterline and sheer, the exterior faces of side panels, and maybe the roof of the cuddy ... all else is OK to see a fiberglass pattern on).
Brian
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That is one of the benefits of using peel-ply, if amine blush occurs it occurs on the outside of the peel-ply and no sanding or minimal sanding on seams for example.
I almost wish I had used peel ply after the 3rd coat of epoxy but it was 10:00pm when I put on the second coat.
Linky: https://epoxycraft.com/westsystem/using-peel-ply-to-best-effect/ (https://epoxycraft.com/westsystem/using-peel-ply-to-best-effect/)
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Thanks for the link! I shared it on FB...
Brian
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I test fitted the roof, marked the inside corners of the bulkheads and snapped chalk lines for the cabin side's and roof supports. I rolled on a thin coat and will fill some holes and fair the seams before applying the glass.
I had 5 men help me set the roof on, not heavy at all but it was nice having all help to guide it on. I used scaffolding planks and ladders fore and aft (planks were athwartship) and no pics but we just picked it strait up and walked it right into position, two guys in the boat to guide it across and into position.
I forgot to get pics of the test fit and scaffold...
pics:
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Looking great! Handy to have those extra hands, especially for the cumbersome pieces ... :)
Brian
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Update, finished fairing inside of roof, light coat of epoxy, filled holes and sanded, 4 oz glass and 2 fill coats with peelply. Added the side window supports to make dropping the roof into place easy...
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Good idea putting those side window/panel supports in place ahead of time - that's a lot easier than doing it after the roof is on.
bd
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One last test fit, had to make sure the roof would drop in with no issues and it did, fits like a glove.
Going to add the curb visor and may even paint the exterior before install. Jury is out on the paint before install..
I am the one with no hair!
Pics:
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Really puts the finish on what the boat'll look like ... looks great!
'No hair'? Should say 'no hat' ... hard to judge who's got hair when 3 of 4 have hats on!
bd
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Looking good Bob! I am working on laminating my roof, and planning on basically the same route as you to basically finish and paint it on the stands and lift it on. Do you think you needed 4 people to put it on? I am planning on myself and one other, but if it was really awkward and you think 4 was pretty necessary I can figure out how to recruit a few more.
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Jason,
It is not heavy but may be somewhat of a struggle for 2 guys. 4 people is better, 6 was awesome. You dont want to slide it and squeeze out epoxy.
I will probably have 6 to install it.
You will know when you test fit it if you need more people.
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Fantastic bob!!
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Looks great. You did a nice job, as usual!
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Beautiful work. Talk about raising the bar for the rest of us... ;D
For one thing you've convinced me to get some peelply and try it.
te
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Thank you all for the kind words!
Going to try the curb thingy today, trimmed the roof to final shape and coated the edges with 2 coats.
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Bending the visor is challenging, soaked the bend areas for about an hour and applied heat with propane torch on one side and heat gun on the other and ended up with cracked wood on the outer, inside is not cracked so I am going to bond it to the roof, do a repair over the damaged area and apply the outer skin.
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Bob ... guess what? The GA has been built for almost 16 years now, and in spite of several planning on it, *YOU* (TaDaaaahhh!!!!! Ching Ching Ching!!!) are the VERY FIRST to actually build the Prince Rupert visor!!
So ... inquiring minds have a need to know. Are you bending 3mm, 4mm, or 1/8" plywood around those tough corners? Or did you buy 'bending plywood'? (Example in link):
Bending Plywood (at Home Despot) (https://www.homedepot.com/p/Columbia-Forest-Products-3-8-in-x-4-ft-x-4-ft-PureBond-Radius-Bending-Plywood-Project-Panel-4124/310331869)
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I’m watching this closely. A visor was on my gotta have it list since the beginning.
Did you experiment with thin plywood or any other materials before you wrapped the front corner? What thickness is it? That’s asking a lot of any wood material I think. You seemed to have pulled it off. That repair I’m sure pails in comparison to some of the other things needed to get you where you are today. I would be most happy with it!
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For the record, as long as the wood describes a smooth curve when bent and doesn't break clear through, I'm OK with splits and cracks .... they'll get filled with epoxy (saturate well) and glassed-over. Think of the wood as a core material for the most part. Also glass the inside of the curve while the wood is flat - It will be in compression during bending and will not make it harder, but may keep the wood together while in the process of building. I'd love to experiment with that plywood that's designed to be extra bendy ...
Brian
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I am bending 3mm okume so 2 layers to match up with the 6mm side curb.
Hindsight I could have probably built it with pvc foam board.
https://www.fiberlay.com/prod-core-materials.php?subclass=&startrow=15 (https://www.fiberlay.com/prod-core-materials.php?subclass=&startrow=15)
Although I have not tried bending that either.
On the outer skin I think will bend it cross grain and will have to use more than one piece but its a thought.
JG "Jeff" from this site visited this morning and had a great idea I am going to try, heating up a wet towel in the microwave till its so darn hot you need tongs to handle it.
I need to make sure the 3mm is dry before gluing it down, maybe just apply heat for about 20 minutes then go for it.
On edit I wish that bending plywood was in stock, I would go to town right now and get some but Sept. 3rd is too long for me to wait. Looks interesting.
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And I wonder how the PVC foam sticks to epoxy? I'd probably glass it and then do a peel-test ... leave a strip loose and see if you can yank the cloth back off of the foam.
You can also use a block of styrofoam or equivalent, carve it to shape for the corner curbing, put peel ply or plastic or wax paper on it and use a 100%-glass lay-up.
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Just curious. Is cutting shallow kerfs in the inside of the bend not a good option in this situation? It may not be a good solution in this situation?
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I am not experienced with bending, although I am getting an education on this project. Sawing kerfs may work on thicker wood but probably not on this thin stuff and different radius on top and bottom
I did do a couple test pieces today 3mm and 4mm and what I found was the 4mm was easier to bend without breaking. Maybe the 3mm being so thin makes it fragile.
I did the tests using wet towels super heated in the microwave and was not gentle when I forced it into submission without either breaking. Then I tried it on a replacement piece of 3mm and cracked it..
My plan on the bending is to make a simple steam box 2' x '3 big enough for the corner pieces. If I cant get the 3mm to bend without cracking I will try the 4mm.
So I changed gears for a bit, did a lot of sanding and glassed the corners that had cracked, block sanded the cracked areas to fair before adding 2 layers of 4 oz glass on the corners. I plan on removing the front visor and glassing the inside before installing it.
I bonded the roof rails which was left over from the inner grab rails.
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Coming along nicely. It’s interesting that the thicker wood seemed to bend easier. I like the roof runners. Good idea
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Looking back at your photos it’s not super obvious to me how you clamped the initial roof layer to your form. Is it just slightly larger than needed making room for screws than simply trimmed away ?
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I think the bending effort is going the best that it can and exactly as expected. We all appreciate all the candor and shared experience. It's looking really sweet :D
Brian
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Todd,
In the pic before and after the heat gun you can see I attached the 3mm skin 16" x 97" to the temp mount blocks with screws, made a mark on both ends the designed height and used a batten and my wife to mark a line about an inch higher in the middle and guessed on the sides and cut in place before bending. Mount blocks are attached with double sided tape.
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I see, that tape must be hell of sticky, I was referring more to the first layer of roof skin to the mold.
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I am a retard, first layer was clamped at the outer edges and screwed thru the slats into the 1/4" plywood, I had my wife on top while I put the screws in from the bottom. In hindsight I would have run the 1/4" athwartship as the seams would have been easier to finish.
I attached a pic, if you make the roof a littler bigger you can crew right down thru the 1/4" around the perimeter and put the rest in the field. You will see tiny blocks under the slats, only reason for that I did not have the correct length screws so I made about 150 tiny blocks and drilled holes in them.
I see, that tape must be hell of sticky, I was referring more to the first layer of roof skin to the mold.
sticky tape for sure, a lot of the time removing it pulls wood fibers:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07L6BS2KX/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07L6BS2KX/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
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I found some bending plywood, you can get it to bend the long way or the short way. Its only $28 a sheet so needless to say I am taking a 30 mile drive and getting some.
This link is 3/8"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c30fwtSCvuA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c30fwtSCvuA)
https://www.awi-wa.com/products/specialty-sheet-products/benderboard/ (https://www.awi-wa.com/products/specialty-sheet-products/benderboard/)
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What you did in the perimeter is mostly what I imagined. Did you screw the field from under without shining through what would be the top inside of the sandwich?
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What you did in the perimeter is mostly what I imagined. Did you screw the field from under without shining through what would be the top inside of the sandwich?
Correct, screw length was taken up by the spacers I added, you could possibly find correct length screw. Page 43 has good pics, foam and top skin was glued down with contact cement.
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Crystal. Thx
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I picked up the bender board plywood, I have not cut it or used yet but it is very flexible. You buy it 4x8 or 8x4 and it either will make a 8' long tube or a 4' long tube.
I made a rear spoiler if you will, sawed up some thin strips of cedar and glued on top of the roof form. Not very efficient use of a board, i/8" - 3/16 strips with 1/8" of sawdust between every cut. makes for a lot of sawdust. Spent the evening cleaning up stuff.
Pics:
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What are you going to use the bendy ply for? You already nailed the curves of the visor, is there something else that has tight bends on the roof that I am missing? BTW, looking fantastic as usual...
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What kind of wood is the bender board made from?
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The 1/8" is made from Italian Poplar.
https://www.awi-wa.com/products/specialty-sheet-products/benderboard/ (https://www.awi-wa.com/products/specialty-sheet-products/benderboard/)
The reason for the bendy ply is I do not have confidence that the second layer will go on without cracking again. By the time I make a steam box and bend 2 outside corners and put a piece in the middle the bendy stuff sounds really appealing.
I will either put one layer over the top of what I have or go with 2 layers of bendy ply.
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Looks like they have 9mm (just less than 3/8th inches) in Meranti too. Looks like cool stuff .. I wonder, other than aligning grain, how they make it so bendable?
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That is what they do, all layers have grain the same direction.
More info:
https://www.amerhart.com/product/wiggle-wood-bending-board-8x4-ft-7-inch-minimum-radius (https://www.amerhart.com/product/wiggle-wood-bending-board-8x4-ft-7-inch-minimum-radius)
http://packardforestproducts.com/bending-plywood/ (http://packardforestproducts.com/bending-plywood/)
https://www.roberts-plywood.com/quarter-round-elongated-radius-plywood.html (https://www.roberts-plywood.com/quarter-round-elongated-radius-plywood.html)
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Cool, and unlike plastic, epoxy and glass sticks to bender board ... what a great product!
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Kind of a slow grind, got side tracked cleaning the shop, I did manage to get the curb visor and sides glued on, just need to add the second layer of 3mm to the front. I kept the 3mm okume for the first layer, its much stiffer.
The bend-ply stuff wraps the corners like there is no corner, its amazing stuff. I made a paper template of the okume visor while it was in place and cut the bend-ply.
I found a new use for bailing twine and used staples to hold down the 3mm, way easier to remove and no hole to patch up.
Not sure about the rear corners, I am installing a rear curb so water can go out the corners.
Pics:
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Hmmm.. Now I am tempted to go grab a sheet at my lumber store. Visor looks great, glad you went first so I can use you as a source of inspiration and guidance. :)
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2nd layer glued down, need to finish fairing the seams and glass the outer layer.
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That's a very good looking visor!
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Looking better all the time, trimmed / sanded the edges yesterday and put fairing compound on. I am going to adjust the side profile to the 60/40 as designed, apparently my math was off when I cut it the first time.
To builders that go this route I suggest not patching the front section, would have been better to add what I needed to the rear of the side panels or scarfing beforehand. Just more sanding..
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Looking good! Are you planning on leaving the back open? I am not entirely sure where to put drainage ports on mine as I closed the back, so I am curious about what you are planning on doing with regards to that. That's quite the bath of fairing compound too. Maybe I need to just go for broke and just lather it on so I don't have to apply it 5 times.
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Json,
It looks thick but not really, probably 1/16" on the front and sanded it once and done. You may not need any, the bendy-ply over the okume does not lay down perfect. Small dimples where I firmly pushed the staple gun and I used a lot of staples so rather than try to repair 150 staple dents.. The front sides however were more work and filler.
The back will be open on the corners to drain. I do have a small piece the runs across the back edge to install to divert the water to the corners.
I am not sure about my corner drains either.
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I'd leave the back end open. It's handy for putting stuff up there. To prevent water draining into the cockpit, add a strip of wood from port to starboard (can be V-shaped, pointing forward) to act as a gutter to drive water to the sides. Open a small hole in the visor on each side to let that water drain out. Try to design it so the water drains out on either solid side panel or on a window that does not open. You don't want to drain the roof onto an opening window - you'll have to keep the window shut when it rains. Anyway ... just my 2-bits. Probably what I would do.
FANTASTIC job on the visor!!! :D :D :D Looks really great!
Brian
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It will be exciting To see it on the boat
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I thought I might be glassing the curb tonight but not going to happen, one low spot on starboard side had to add more filler. Maybe tomorrow night.
Couple pics:
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Nice work on the fairing ... really professional!
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Brian,
I think I am going to adjust the side curb to match where the windows split. Credit to my wife for thinking of that.
Something like this drawing:
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Good eye ... I think that'll look great. Looks like you've got some width behind the last window too, if you need a place to drain the roof off to the side ...
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Its 10:00 pm, finished glassing the curb exterior, just need to get up early and put a coat of epoxy on before work tomorrow.
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Trimmed the glass this morning and put on coat of epoxy and peel-ply, ran out of peel-ply about 1/2 way down starboard side.
Taking a break for 10 days, going to do some archery elk hunting. Still need to put a fillet on the inside edge of the curb visor and some glass on the front inside of the visor, I am looking forward to gluing on a roof and painting.
Oops, forgot the pic...
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Trimmed the glass this morning and put on coat of epoxy and peel-ply, ran out of peel-ply about 1/2 way down starboard side.
Taking a break for 10 days, going to do some archery elk hunting. Still need to put a fillet on the inside edge of the curb visor and some glass on the front inside of the visor, I am looking forward to gluing on a roof and painting.
You deserve a break ... good luck on the elk hunt
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Get a big one! You might have an excuse to add onto the shop. Looks like your running g out of "head" room ;D:
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I'm back, tough elk hunting with all the smoke, visibility and air quality sucked. I did not get one but still have the late season.
I will post progress pics as soon as I make some progress!
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Love to see hunting pix, even if shy one elk :)
Welcome back!
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I finished glassing the inner curb, and mounted the rear roof trim, draining out the rear corners.
Added fairing to the glass seam on the roof, I probably should/could have left it as it was so a little more sanding for me to do.
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Not much to report but I did get the rear roof support fillet and glassed. I plan on priming soon!
Glassing the rear curb turned out way better than I thought it would, I stuck it to the back edge first, using a wide piece of glass and ran it side to side and did not follow the curve (pulled glass strait across) and stuck it to the epoxy that was nice and tacky. I did brush some fresh epoxy on the fillet and out onto the roof an inch or so so I could press it into the fillet easily.
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Haven’t seen any reports on your build progress. Hope everything is groovy!
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Everything is ok, just side tracked for a bit, stupid to have 2 projects. Just needed to get my challenger project in epoxy primer. Busy at work again so hauling my roof down to paint it has been a timing thing. I want to paint it before I install it.
The other woman:
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I can’t believe you are stepping out on your boat. You obviously are not married or have one really cool wife. 😂
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That must be said to all of us!
Dig the ride!
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ok, back from archery hunting, 3pt mule deer and my first grouse.
Where was I, oh ya working on roof still, hauled it to my shop this morning and I will be priming the curb visor with a sand-able primer and will coat the rest of the roof with epoxy primer that will not need sanding.
I dont think anyone will mind the roof not being not being perfect, who will look up there anyway..
Couple pics below.
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WOW, you have set the bar high! Do you have a paint booth? That certainly makes things nice. Ive been wondering how I will paint in my boat barn. Worried about all the spiders and junk choking out and falling into the paint from the fumes. Maybe I could cover the boat and set off a bug bomb or something...
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Looks really great, I really like that style roof
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WOW, you have set the bar high! Do you have a paint booth? That certainly makes things nice. Ive been wondering how I will paint in my boat barn. Worried about all the spiders and junk choking out and falling into the paint from the fumes. Maybe I could cover the boat and set off a bug bomb or something...
It's not that big of a problem, you just sand them off and paint it again :) Once you paint and fume the first time there are very little that fall out the next time. At least that's what I tell myself 5 feet from where I am looking at my visor from...
Looks great rbob! I was wondering when I would get to see your masterpiece of a roof painted. It's seriously crazy how high you are setting the bar. Well done.
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Rbob, what kind of foam did you use in your roof?
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Todd,
I used Fiberlay PVC80 1/2" Rigid PVC Foam. I just checked their site and its not showing up so may have to give a call.
https://www.fiberlay.com/prod-core-materials.php?cat=PVC%20Foam%20Core&subclass=40100109001025-401005200011001&startrow=0 (https://www.fiberlay.com/prod-core-materials.php?cat=PVC%20Foam%20Core&subclass=40100109001025-401005200011001&startrow=0)
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Thank you!
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I hope I did not set the bar high for spraying primer.. it does lay down pretty nice for primer, its epoxy primer, 1:1 mix and sticks like glue.
I tried to match the color for the curb visor similar to the blue on the Mercury engine cover. maybe paint tomorrow night.
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Going to paint curb visor in the morning, family stuff tonight.
Pics of archery hunt:
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Got up and 4:00 am, painted and clear coated the curb visor.
I could have sanded spent more time with the 320 grit after I final blocked with 220 so I may do a little buffing, another lesson learned. I will get the rest of the roof painted this weekend and haul it home for the install.
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WOW! Nice work!
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Thank you,
Not as nice as it looks in the pic, it shows some sand-scratches which I will avoid when I paint the rest.
I had my wife help me with the color selection, trying to be fairly close to the Mercury accent color.
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Very successfully week. Nice visor and deer!
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Very successfully week. Nice visor and deer!
... and ruffie! Ruffies are everything a chicken WISHED it was!
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Woah. That's gorgeous.
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Thank you all for the compliments, a weekend of honeydew's and Christmas tree getting kept me from working on my boat. Life happens.
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Did you buy a wallas diesel heater for your boat? I’m shopping kit prices while considering the likelihood I may need service. They sure are spendy
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Yes on Wallas heater. Spendy for sure but worth every penny.
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Yes on Wallas heater. Spendy for sure but worth every penny.
It'll out-last you too... quality is worth paying for.
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Wabasto, espar, and wallas arw the ones I've been looking at. I've yet to really be able to see the differences. Did you tip the scales for wallas because of scanmarine being sorta near?
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They are probably all good choices, Its been almost a year and I cannot remember the differant price points. I made my decision on a Wallas because my friend has one in is Thunderjet offshore and you can leave the doors open and keep warm on a cold day. That was enough for me. I did visit the scanmarine booth at the boat show but ordered it online, same price.
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Had to take a look to see if I had 2 layers of glass on the shelves / side joint, what a relief..
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Rbob, how do you like that big ol aluminum cast hatch you bought? I’m looking to put one in the cockpit to cover my fuel tank fittings. Did the quality of the product live up to the price? Your .02 appreciated!
Thanks Todd
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It is bullet proof and maybe a little overkill but being on the swimstep its what I wanted. Inside the cockpit probably wont matter much. Try to get one that is not real tall, If you can flush mount it would be better, just have to have enough backing underneath.
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For those that truly want the boat to float high when swamped or capsized (God forbid), the best deck hatches are the screw-down aluminum hatches that seal well. Plastic deck plates (etc) do NOT seal well. Small deck plates, say 8" diameter and smaller, can be gasketed and screwed down plates of polycarbonate ... those work well and you can see through them. Best to have fuel manifolds, switches, etc higher than the deck and pass-throughs through the deck to under-deck passageways should be sealed etc. The option is to fill under-deck areas with cut-to-fit closed-cell foam (polyethylene is best). Anyway ... the deck plate discussion inspired me ... just my 2-bits :)
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Working on my Winldlass install, I opted to mount the windlass on a piece of CE Grade Phelonic, I did not want the windlass flexing the roof / bolt holes with potential leaking in the future.
Used spray adhesive to mount the template, drill press to drill the holes and a friend with a bandsaw / oscillating drum sander and router to make the finishing easy for me!
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Working on my Winldlass install, I opted to mount the windlass on a piece of CE Grade Phelonic, I did not want the windlass flexing the roof / bolt holes with potential leaking in the future.
Used spray adhesive to mount the template, drill press to drill the holes and a friend with a bandsaw / oscillating drum sander and router to make the finishing easy for me!
It did not have to be CE grade, just chose it because of the cloth thinking it is stronger.
I made the pad about 1/2" +/- wider than the windlass and rounded.
I think this would be a good backing for the cleats and stern eyes.
https://www.ebay.com/str/Norva-Plastics-Inc/PHENOLIC/_i.html?_storecat=10847825 (https://www.ebay.com/str/Norva-Plastics-Inc/PHENOLIC/_i.html?_storecat=10847825)
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For those that truly want the boat to float high when swamped or capsized (God forbid), the best deck hatches are the screw-down aluminum hatches that seal well. Plastic deck plates (etc) do NOT seal well. Small deck plates, say 8" diameter and smaller, can be gasketed and screwed down plates of polycarbonate ... those work well and you can see through them. Best to have fuel manifolds, switches, etc higher than the deck and pass-throughs through the deck to under-deck passageways should be sealed etc. The option is to fill under-deck areas with cut-to-fit closed-cell foam (polyethylene is best). Anyway ... the deck plate discussion inspired me ... just my 2-bits :)
I'm not trying to save money on my build, but the solid poly blocks for under the PH when priced made me cringe. I couldn't do it. I think screw down aluminum hatch is what I want. I haven't seen that as a option, so back to Google it is.
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For those that truly want the boat to float high when swamped or capsized (God forbid), the best deck hatches are the screw-down aluminum hatches that seal well. Plastic deck plates (etc) do NOT seal well. Small deck plates, say 8" diameter and smaller, can be gasketed and screwed down plates of polycarbonate ... those work well and you can see through them. Best to have fuel manifolds, switches, etc higher than the deck and pass-throughs through the deck to under-deck passageways should be sealed etc. The option is to fill under-deck areas with cut-to-fit closed-cell foam (polyethylene is best). Anyway ... the deck plate discussion inspired me ... just my 2-bits :)
I'm not trying to save money on my build, but the solid poly blocks for under the PH when priced made me cringe. I couldn't do it. I think screw down aluminum hatch is what I want. I haven't seen that as a option, so back to Google it is.
These are a good choice, 6" or 8" or 10"
http://stores.armstrongnauticalstore.com/deck-plates-1/ (http://stores.armstrongnauticalstore.com/deck-plates-1/)
Or billet aluminum:
https://www.eddiemarine.com/shop/electrical/hatch-actuators/hatch-actuator-accessories/billet-aluminum-deck-access-plate-400-70 (https://www.eddiemarine.com/shop/electrical/hatch-actuators/hatch-actuator-accessories/billet-aluminum-deck-access-plate-400-70)
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For those that truly want the boat to float high when swamped or capsized (God forbid), the best deck hatches are the screw-down aluminum hatches that seal well. Plastic deck plates (etc) do NOT seal well. Small deck plates, say 8" diameter and smaller, can be gasketed and screwed down plates of polycarbonate ... those work well and you can see through them. Best to have fuel manifolds, switches, etc higher than the deck and pass-throughs through the deck to under-deck passageways should be sealed etc. The option is to fill under-deck areas with cut-to-fit closed-cell foam (polyethylene is best). Anyway ... the deck plate discussion inspired me ... just my 2-bits :)
I'm not trying to save money on my build, but the solid poly blocks for under the PH when priced made me cringe. I couldn't do it. I think screw down aluminum hatch is what I want. I haven't seen that as a option, so back to Google it is.
These are a good choice, 6" or 8" or 10"
http://stores.armstrongnauticalstore.com/deck-plates-1/ (http://stores.armstrongnauticalstore.com/deck-plates-1/)
Or billet aluminum:
https://www.eddiemarine.com/shop/electrical/hatch-actuators/hatch-actuator-accessories/billet-aluminum-deck-access-plate-400-70 (https://www.eddiemarine.com/shop/electrical/hatch-actuators/hatch-actuator-accessories/billet-aluminum-deck-access-plate-400-70)
Those are interesting deck plates. I have never seen one that doesn't have an outside ring. I will have to see if I can find any reviews on these
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A peak at my roof, it did not go as good as I wanted, I used a pressure pot and a cheap spray gun with 1.3 fluid nozzle. Either this spray gun is a P.O.S. or I did not/could not get it adjusted right. I will sand the clear coat smooth and spray it again with my go to spray gun Iwata lph400. Its a big panel and I am a short guy so reaching across seemed a no brainer to use a pressure pot but it sucked for me.
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It looks really good!
On a side note. I find myself studying your work for inspiration. I used your details for my doors into the wheel house. I am wondering how mush reveal your left with on the window flange at the hinge mortise?
THX Todd
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Todd,
Found a pic with a ruler on the aft cabin: It looks like 4 inches without the window installed.
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I was wondering more the left right side to side. I was reading your build again last night and saw a pic with the window cut out of the door. There was a hinge next to the window cut out. All along IVe been Hoping I left enough room for the window flange on the inside and outside of the of doors and bulkheads and walls while maximizing the amount t of light into the ph
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Boat roof is painted and heading home today. If goes as planned I will be gluing it on this weekend.
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Looks fantastic! Definitely raising the bar on that one!
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Thank you, I am glad it is done, the light gray is not as good as I wanted even after the redu, but the blue turned out fantastic.
In my struggles I discovered my clearcoat gun had a 1.4mm fluid nozzle which is a mystery to me, switched it back to a 1.3mm and adjusted the air pressure to 24psi at the gun from 20psi.
It should not have been a struggle for me (spraying part) but thats life, sometimes stuff happens. Just glad I figured this out before I spray the rest.
I know most will not spray the paint but you can have issues with either.
The clear coat I found is rated below waterline which is amazing stuff, it is from Tamco, Hi-impact Clearcoat.
HI-IMPACT clear was developed by Tamco for those who want the ultimate chemical, fuel, UV, scratch and water resistance. This clear can be used under the water line on (fresh or salt water) watercraft which makes it great for boats and jet ski’s as well as skydrol resistant for use on aircraft. If you are looking for the best of the best in the automotive refinish industry look no further than HI-IMPACT
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Sounds like tough stuff! Keep in mind that there are 2 different types of paint rated for use below the waterline ... I suspect the Tamco clear coat is the first type. The first type is a hard-shell finish that is very close to being impervious to water. It is a barrier. The second type is kind of the opposite ... it allows both water and air to pass through the coating, albeit slowly. The barrier type, given very long storage in water (most of a year) can result in water trapped under the coating, and then as climate and temperatures change, it can cause bubbling in the paint. This type of paint is best for trailer-sailors. The semi-permeable type (second type above) is better for boats that are stored in the water ... noting that boats that are stored in the water need to come out once a year or so for bottom inspection, cleaning/sanding, and recoating. I believe that the (manufacturer-recommended) primer coat for the semi-permeable type is a barrier coat as well, but the 99%-protective semi-permeable finish coat prevents it from ever seeing enough water absorption to be an issue. Note that the semi-permeable type can sometimes be anti-fouling as well. A third type of bottom or below-the-waterline paint is 'ablative anti-fouling' paint that actually sheds off into the water as it's used up - it needs recoating now and then as well - sometimes ablative bottom paints are not legal in certain bays, e.g. sensitive oyster beds and what not exist - check local rules. Anyway ... just a few thoughts. Most don't leave their boats in the water longer than a summer season and therefore any below-the-waterline paint system is going to work fine.
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Rbob, did you buy just the 25' of door seal product you posted about way back when? I seem to remember someone buying something similar and had to buy way more than needed. They were offering it up for sale. Anyhoo i cruised your thread where you were showcasing your door and didn't see any mention of it. Im ready to buy something like it too. I put the caliper on the 1/4" ply and got closer to 5/16" after it was glasses both sides. That bulb seal is available in the 2 different sizes. Wondering which way to go? Is the 1/4" stuff in your opinion, flexible enough to swallow another 1/32" if needed?
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1/4" fits, I used the 3/8" bubble:
If you open the "drop down" list under the STYLE, you will see lots of sizes to choose from.
https://www.amazon.com/Trim-Lok-Trim-Seal-Side-Bulb/dp/B00NL40XTK/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=TRIM-LOK+-+3100B3X1%2F4A-25+Trim-Lok+Trim+Seal&qid=1609368098&s=industrial&sr=1-3 (https://www.amazon.com/Trim-Lok-Trim-Seal-Side-Bulb/dp/B00NL40XTK/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=TRIM-LOK+-+3100B3X1%2F4A-25+Trim-Lok+Trim+Seal&qid=1609368098&s=industrial&sr=1-3)
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Looks fantastic! Definitely raising the bar on that one!
The bar does not get any higher than perfect:) Super nice!
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I made a short video clip, no music or talking, need to work on that part when I get time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GQd73G2oMw&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GQd73G2oMw&feature=youtu.be)
For the heck of it who likes Whales? This is out of LaPush on my 22' SeaRaider aluminum boat with my friend Jack, he seemed very concerned:
https://youtu.be/DllXCrjhgCs (https://youtu.be/DllXCrjhgCs)
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I always enjoy seeing whales when I’m out. We saw some smacking the water with their flukes on day goin out and coming back from halibut fishing. I’m guessing it’s mating thing. It was really loud and you could see it from a great distance.
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With help we set the roof on, I originally was going to apply the glue before setting it down but decided it would be easier to prop it up and add the glue and just set it strait down.
If you remember when I test fitted the roof I marked the inside corners and the roof rail locations and installed a strip of wood that the side window panels will have something to glue to and be strait.
Video was done by my wife without asking so you can see. Videos are catching on..
https://youtu.be/sr_As0tjFJc (https://youtu.be/sr_As0tjFJc)
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Your boat is looking fabulous. Nice work! That blue is killer. When I did it it was really easy to just prop it up like you say on some 4x4 scraps and slap some glue on and then pull them, for sure much easier than glue on first.
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Thanks Json.
I glued it on tonight, I will add fillets both sides and 4" cloth on the exterior perimeter as Brian suggests in the manual.
Pics:
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It looks great as usual!
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Outstanding
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Update,
I finished the fillets and taping the roof, and modified my front hatch opening a little, I had built it with square corners and rounded them glassed and added fillets. I topped the fillets with fairing compound while still tacky.
Did I say how fun glassing and filleting overhead is? I put a pencil line on the cabin side to line the glass up and blue tape on the edge of the roof to protect the paint. Process was roll on a coat of epoxy, wait till slightly tacky, add fillets and put the glass tape on dry, and roll on epoxy to wet out. The dry glass sticks to the epoxy and stays put, lined it up on the pencil line and pushed it upwards into the fillet and onto the inner roof.
The fillet wetout the glass, wish I took a pic of that.
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Great progress .. love the curves and style, and the big hatch! I'm not in favor of minimal hatches - big ones let you get out more easily when the chips are down and the keel is up!
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I have been working on the storage compartments, seems to be very time consuming but I am almost done.
Looking back I wish I glassed a sheet or two of 1/2" plywood both sides and at least one fill coat. It would have saved a lot of time glassing and adding fill coats to these little pieces.
There are 3 lids, only showed one with edge glassed.
Pics:
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I mounted the lids and drilled and filled the screw holes oversize and bedded the mortise lock, that was a little scary to remove. I wrapped the lock with packing tape and coated with wd-40 and slid it into the hole that was 2/3 full of gel magic.
The battery box lid is lift off type hinges.
Pics:
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Wow! Nice work! Kinda like bedding the action on a rifle...
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"Kinda like bedding the action on a rifle..."
That's what I thought after I removed it.
Well one thing led to another, I did not like the way the strike plate captured the door latch, and the hole I drilled was just into wood so I made the improved version, just have to glue it in tonight. The phenolic sheet is not drilled thru.
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The plastic piece in the door jamb is a great idea. Are you happy with the way your striker plate came out? When I flush my door to the aft edge of the PH bulkhead my striker plate won’t stick out past the bulkhead.
The only way I see to fix it would be to cheat the mortised lock away from the centerline of the door edge.
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Phenolic sheet is harder to cut than aluminum, amazing stuff. I will fit the striker plate today. Dealing with 14" of snow this morning so a round of shoveling walkways for me.
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Snails pace today, mounted the Wallas heater, forgot to take a pic but will ad it tomorrow. Installed the latch plate and mortise latch and tested. Closes with just a swing and sounds solid:
https://youtu.be/Wioos9ISqdA (https://youtu.be/Wioos9ISqdA)
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Brian, can you move this the the projects section?
I have worked some on the boat, sanded one complete side including upper sides and have the other side upper sanded so a little more sanding before applying primer surfacer. I am dragging my feet a little since I need it to warm up somewhat before painting.
I cut out and glassed my overhead fishing pole storage rack and applied fill coats on both sides today so tomorrow I can glue them in permanently. I purchased storage racks and could not bring myself to install the plastic pieces...
Luckily I have a router and a pattern bit and double-sided tape and some leftover epoxy..
1/4" bungee cord used to secure pole in the open slots. Not in the pics
pics:
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Nice. I have been hemming and hawing over this for my boat, this is a cool way of doing it. Thanks for sharing.
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Great solution, will definitely do something similar.
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I like it!! Did you figure out the spacing or did you have a pattern to measure. What are the center to center dimensions of the full round holes? Looks like about a 1 1/2" hole for the butt end of the rod?
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Chuck I can measure tomorrow, the holes are 1.75"
https://www.ebay.com/itm/352899863302 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/352899863302)
Off shrimping thru Saturday.
on edit, lining the slots with this:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01B5FNRA8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01B5FNRA8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
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Holes are 4.5" on center.
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Thanks Bob I will have to draw this up looks like a great idea!!!
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Rbob, I did not catch the weight rating or model # on your venture trailer. It looks closest to their tandem 8800# model listed for 23-27 foot boats. Is that pretty close for a guess? Thanks, Todd
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I can double check, but I am sure it is the #8800
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Thank you, I think I will get the same one. I am hoping to get the boat out of the shop before fall and a trailer would be helpful. Thank you
Todd
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I can double check, but I am sure it is the #8800
I got my trailer from sandy also. Overall it was a good experience dealing with Sandy. I just had to convince him my 31' boat didn't need triple axles and wouldn't ever weigh more than 6500 pounds on the trailer with 162 gal of fuel, all gear and 300# of ice. That calculation was probably at least 500# heavy in my opinion.
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I have yet to fill out the venture trailer estimator. I’m wondering if I will need a hybrid of sorts. Longer trailer with lower rating. So something like the 8800# rating for the next length longer trailer
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I went with the 8800# trailer and extended & lengthened the main beam for my size boat
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I went with Kokopelli out in Maricopa AZ, 7k lb aluminum trailer that can hold 6k. I plan on not trailering heavy, getting fuel and ice at the fuel dock when possible. We will see how that goes. It comes this weekend so if I get the boat on it I plan on getting a dry weight before too long, I should probably "finish" my boat first tho...
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I went with the 8800# trailer and extended & lengthened the main beam for my size boat
I’m assuming this is something you Arranged score you picked it up and not a modification you did after the sale ?
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I went with the 8800# trailer and extended & lengthened the main beam for my size boat
I’m assuming this is something you Arranged score you picked it up and not a modification you did after the sale ?
Yes I had the factory make the changes to suit my needs. I have a copy of the invoice with all the specs at the office if ya want to see it let me know
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Good to know thx
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Heat wave be dammed, finished sanding the exterior yesterday and gave it the final wipe down at 11:00 last night. Up at 4:30 knowing I only have about a 3 hour window for moderately warm temps.
SOB it was hot wearing a paint suit...
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Awesome! Can’t wait to see how it looks painted…
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Same for me cant wait to see it painted
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I blocked Starboard side and most of port side, cant keep going, even with a box fan blowing on me while I sand.
Just need to block the upper sides below the side windows, I ran short on primer on the starboard side ( one heavy coat) so its going to be one more session of priming and blocking before I am ready to paint.
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Eesh.. that looks painful. But man, you are going to have a first class paint job. I really am looking forward to seeing the end result of this...
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It's worth it ... you're doing a great job. You'll never remember the days of sweat when you're out on the water enjoying a cool breeze in your face ... :D
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Update, I primed a second time and blocked for the last time, it was a lot easier not being in the 90's. Blocked this time with #220 vs #120 the first coat.
I decided to remodel my rear steering station so been a couple days glassing and epoxying both sides and will be install the pieces today. I will post pics later.
Last priming:
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Looking so good! I like all the lines, but then whats not to like on a GA:) We are in the same phase of construction. I'm priming inside and out right now. If all goes well I should be all painted by the end of next week.
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Rear Helm update,
I like this a lot better, don't know what I was thinking. Funny doing a remodel before its finished.
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I see why you like it too!
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Last night I rolled on Total Boat Epoxy primer/surfacer on the upper pilot house, I blocked it tonight. Getting closer to painting it but dont want to rush it.
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It’s going to look so good.
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I hope it does, getting closer..
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Such a nice job. Going to be a great boat.
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Update,
I have not painted exterior yet but I did go ahead and prime and block and final sand the forward cabin, aft cabin exterior and the rear fish-box and the door fronts. #220 block, re-guide coat and d/a sand with #320. Another thing checked off.
I went with an AGM start battery, should work just find.
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Looks like quality work as usual! I made my battery box configuration just like yours from what I see. Having said that I’m wondering if your batteries are in some sort of tray? Anything between them and the deck surface? What are your plans to restrain them? I have yet to decide or work out those details. Thanks
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Batteries are just sitting in there for looks right now, I did order 3 battery trays, plastic ones by Attwood. Originally going to use a strap type. I should have checked regulations first, I just did. See below.
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I’m now concerned I don’t have room for 3 trays. I could raise the floor to accommodate I suspect. Thanks for the info. One more thing to think about. Thx
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Looking sooooo good!
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With the help of my granddaughter I was able to turn the boat and head it towards the door. I loaded it almost all the way and discovered I need to move my bunks up, its late so I will pull the trailer from under the boat and move my bunks up so it will clear the front crossbar.
I went the easy route, borrowed boat jack-stands to raise the rear and lifted the front with my excavator and borrowed a forklift to back the trailer under the boat.
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Soooo close
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So nerve racking up in the air like that!!!
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Took the trailer across the scales yesterday and the boat today, by the math its 3,020lbs including the 3 cans of garbage so probably 2,900 lbs.. no glass, no seats etc.
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Looking real sweet!! nice set-up....so exciting
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You have built a beautiful boat , one to be proud of.
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Thanks for the compliments, heading down tomorrow to start the painting, Epoxy sealer tomorrow and exterior painting Sunday.
Lots to do still once painted, more paintwork aft cabin, non skid deck etc. Nice to get it out of the my shop.
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It’s pretty exciting seeing all the projects finishing up. You have done a great job. Did you decide against putting the brace under the pulpit?
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It’s pretty exciting seeing all the projects finishing up. You have done a great job. Did you decide against putting the brace under the pulpit?
Yes, no brace for me. Crossing my fingers.
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It’s very strong as is. I hope you don’t damage it. I have been going back and forth. I haven’t come up with anything I’m wild about.
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Took the trailer across the scales yesterday and the boat today, by the math its 3,020lbs including the 3 cans of garbage so probably 2,900 lbs.. no glass, no seats etc.
Sounds like my calcs, using 45# per cubic foot average (for this type of construction) is right on the money! The weight is one of the reasons that this boat gets better than TWICE the gas mileage that commercially-built competitors get ... When gas hits $8/gallong, YOU will be out fishin' while the rest are just wishin'!
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Took the trailer across the scales yesterday and the boat today, by the math its 3,020lbs including the 3 cans of garbage so probably 2,900 lbs.. no glass, no seats etc.
That is great to hear. I'm hoping to come in around 41-4300 lbs. Dry no engines gives me hope. Everything else pretty much done except for motors. We will see soon enough. As soon as I get my insurance shes heading down the road to a scale
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Long weekend, but another major milestone completed, exterior is painted. I am happy that it looks as good as it does. There are flaws and some runs I need to fix but stuff happens when old guys grab a spray gun.
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Nice! Love the bright spray rails. I wanted to do that but then I realized how hard it was to make rails that look good bright haha. Yours look perfect. That’s seriously awesome.
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VERY PRETTY WELL DONE
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Spray rails were challenging, 3 layers of meranti and capped with ipe.
One more shot with masking off, the next pic will be with windows installed.
Thanks for the compliments!
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I hate to say it but your boat is too nice to put in the water. The first time someone bounces a downrigger ball off the side your going to have a mental breakdown.
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We could almost form a small Coast Guard with all beautiful the GA's finishing up!!
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Spray rails were challenging, 3 layers of meranti and capped with ipe.
One more shot with masking off, the next pic will be with windows installed.
Thanks for the compliments!
I’m totally ignorant when it comes to britework. Are the rails glassed? Oiled? Thx
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Todd,
I did not glass mine, I put them on one layer at a time because of the difficulty bending at the front. I used G-flex to attach and staggered the scarf joints as needed. I put 3 coats of epoxy and sanded to #320 before painting. I masked off the spray rails to apply sealer and base-coat color and pulled the tape before applying 3 coats of clear coat on the whole boat.
If you were using single stage paint Alexseal etc. you could mask off the spray rails and apply 3 coats of clear (paint) first and after cure mask off and paint your boat as usual.
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Thx
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Took my boat home to do the rest of the work, had to get creative since my boat does not quite fit strait in, so I visited Harbor Freight and picked up 4 wheel dolly's. Moved my boat most the way in at an angle and moved it sideways with the dollys.
Going to have to be that way until I put an addition on my shop.
https://www.harborfreight.com/5200-lb-max-vehicle-weight-ultra-mobile-self-loading-dolly-64601.html?_br_psugg_q=wheel+dolly
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I have been drilling holes for bilge's pumps, fishbox drain, Wallas heater exhaust and installing latches in my deck hatches. I installed the Bomar aluminum hatch on the swimstep.
Drilling holes in a boat is just wrong....
I purchased Tessilmare Radial52 Rubrails and they use tracks to hold the rubber and need holes drilled probably every 6" to make it really secure. Close to 120 holes, dang I hope it is worth it.
I will post pics as soon as I get enough progress to make it worth the wait.
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I understand about all the hole drilling. I am trying my best to locate and drill all the holes while I can be sloppy with the epoxy. Every time I think I’m done I find myself spending another day locating and drilling more holes. It’s a never ending process.
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I have been drilling holes for bilge's pumps, fishbox drain, Wallas heater exhaust and installing latches in my deck hatches. I installed the Bomar aluminum hatch on the swimstep.
Drilling holes in a boat is just wrong....
I purchased Tessilmare Radial52 Rubrails and they use tracks to hold the rubber and need holes drilled probably every 6" to make it really secure. Close to 120 holes, dang I hope it is worth it.
I will post pics as soon as I get enough progress to make it worth the wait.
I got the same rub rail it can be a challenge to get it on the bracket. Using a heat gun to warm it up helps a lot.
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Chuck, I am having trouble with the stainless steel ends, they sit about 3mil high when placed on the rubrail. Waiting for customer service to call me or reply.
What length screws did you use to install? I thought 1.5" but I was wrong, only about 3/4" in the wood which seems too short..
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Update, I installed the rubrails with the help of my wife, I rolled them out on the lawn and let it get warmish 74 degrees before bending onto the tracks.
So I drilled 114 holes for the rubrail tracks, (temporarily installed and removed tracks) wetted out with epoxy with a small 1/8" round brush and let cure overnight. I used a syringe and gel-majic to over filled every hole and installed the tracks. What a marathon...
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That looks great. It will work well too.
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I added rub rails on top of the gunnel, could not grasp loading ice chests, crab pots and shrimp pots without potential damage.
Makes it kinda utility looking though.
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The rub rails on the sheer is a super great idea! Does the rub rails together eliminate any possible damage to edge of the boat? Looks like it. I did 20 oz of glass. I like your approach better!
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The rub rails together should keep the corner from being hit if the object bridges across both rubrails, it will still be possible for damage on the corner but setting ice chests or tackle boxes or whatever else should eliminate unless someone slams it down carelessly.
I can take a pic tomorrow.
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... Or most importantly, you can haul shrimp and crab pots in over the rail without creating a 'rope groove'! :D I like your use of the rubrail better than the UHMW that I've seen screwed onto some sheer decks.
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I like it too. Thx!
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Great Idea, never thought of that. I have seen guys recess say a 1/2" diameter stainless rod into the tops of the sheer leaving the top half exposed above the gunnel. By putting these 2-3 inches apart maybe 24" long in the right place would help protect the finish from sliding things like ice chest over the top. Of course this dose not work if you installed the cockpit coming like the plans call for. I'm thinking I may do a single on my top of my coming pretty much full length. I use the Scotty single wheel crab pot puller, it actually works real well. When I first saw it I didn't think it would last but its really held up well. Saves from the rope damaging the outside corner gunnel to side joint.
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Scotty puller would be too much work for this old guy, shrimp pots at 250-300ft and crag pots sometimes down to 200ft. I think I will stick with a electric puller and davit.
I painted the dash , aft cabin exterior bulkhead, inner gunnels and the face of the livewell with Alexseal 501. I used the roll additive which works amazing, cool thing is the white I used is almost a dead match to my exterior paint.
My first coat I had some runs a lot of fiber from the roller cover even though I wrapped tape around it to pull off the loose fibers. I switched to Wooster Pro foam and will never go back to the other, your results may vary.
It takes 3 days to apply 3 coats but what the heck. Only a couple pics for now, this is coat #2 below.
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Looks great, I am gonna have to try some of those rollers. I bought a bunch of the mohair ones, they work pretty well but I am always looking for something better. It took me a lot of practice before I was able to do a good section without runs, yours looks great.
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Man that does look nice. Gorgeous.
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Looks great, I am gonna have to try some of those rollers. I bought a bunch of the mohair ones, they work pretty well but I am always looking for something better. It took me a lot of practice before I was able to do a good section without runs, yours looks great.
These foam rollers https://www.amazon.com/Wooster-Brush-RR308-4-1-2-Pack-2-Inch/dp/B002YCA9BM/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=WOOSTER+BRUSH+HIGH+DENSITY+FOAM+ROLLER&qid=1632172995&sr=8-2 (https://www.amazon.com/Wooster-Brush-RR308-4-1-2-Pack-2-Inch/dp/B002YCA9BM/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=WOOSTER+BRUSH+HIGH+DENSITY+FOAM+ROLLER&qid=1632172995&sr=8-2)
I not 100% sold on their use, maybe in some areas the foam edge is nice but the mohair (if you can get all of the lint out) works quite well and I think it is easier to get an even coat as it is hard to tell with the foam. Rolling takes practice for sure.
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Started installing components, nothing wired in yet but nice to see something installed:
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Looking good!
Beware, with 2 helms, all those batteries, and all the cables, etc. on the starboard side, you're setting yourself to list significantly to SB. Hopefully you have a plan to put some heavy items on the port side to compensate?
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Good point, I may move the lead acid battery to starboard if needed. The Lifepo4 batteries are a considerable weight savings; both of them are 46lbs combined in comparison the the lead acid at 57lbs.
The 9.9 kicker (111lbs) will be on the port side and I thought it should offset the weight of the batteries but I did not consider the station itself and the cables. My Walllas heater is on the port side along with a 4 gallon fuel tank which is not a lot of weight.
Honestly I don't know how to calculate too much at once so any help and advice I can get I will take it.
Thank you for the heads up.
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I will be watching you closely as my setup is very much like yours. I have the weight of the refer parts on the strbrd side too. I don’t know or what much about the merc stuff. The Suzuki fly by wire doesn’t weigh a lot, but it all adds up
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Since your average captain probably weighs 200# plus or minus (plus ... for me!), it makes sense to design for being slightly heavier on the port side. The GA will roll a couple of degrees relatively easily at first, but then stiffens up quickly past that. That's at rest. When on plane, it'd be pretty tough to out-weigh the dynamic forces on the boat that keep it level ... not to worry.
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Took a few days off from the build, Sekui for Halibut, Lings and a few salmon.
Nice chicken halibut and was soo good to go fishing.
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Wish I coulda been there! :D
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Brian,
Next summer you have an open invitation on my boat also, quit wishing and lets go fishing!
Progress on my boat is a little slow right now, taking time with family for birthdays, grand daughters volley ball games and even got away yesterday for some mushroom picking with my wife Tiffany. Chanterelles and some white chanterelles. I could have filled a couple buckets of Lobster mushrooms but my wife did not care for them.
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Nice haul and THANKS! I really need to un-complicate my life and make time for more fishing ...
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Thanks so much for visiting with me Saturday Rob. You have a beautiful boat going there. I got some more fillets done on Sunday and look forward to getting ling to the deck work and gas tank installations.
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Update,
I built my battery tray and installed it. It sits off of the floor 5/8" just to stay a little dryer. I had some left over G-10 Phenolic (touch as hell) that I cut into strips and installed between the batteries. Drilled / tapped for the battery hold downs I made of of the same type of plastic... 3 batteries barely fit in there (lack of planning) and the battery trays I bought would not work. Cool thing is they do not move at all when bolted in.
I spent part of the day re-adjusting my trailer bunks and installed a couple of keel rollers to keep the keel off of the crossmember. I had already installed 2 pieces of 3" x 3" square tubing to mount the keel rollers, glad this part is done. I am 5 minutes away from Zittles Marina and they let me bowwow a couple boat stands which made lifting the rear of the boat easy along with a floor jack up front.
I re-adjusted bunks 3 times to make the boat land on bunks, target bunks and both front rollers evenly.
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Bob, I like what you did with the rollers, but I am a little concerned about the shafts sticking out each end. One time I got onto my trailer a bit crooked and put a nice scrape in my boat on the support for the center roller. I have seen small tapered rollers on the outside of the main rollers on some units.
Just something to think about.
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Gary,
I dont think I need to worry about the ends of the roller shaft, with target bunks there are no way to miss the rollers.
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Great.
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I should have said:
"with target bunks there are no way to miss the rollers, I sure hope they do not.
Good point and I will take a long look a it tomorrow, you may be on to something.
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Rbob, when I mentioned this issue to Sandy he said that the fix was to lower the rear bunks and raise the front bunks. Add the front roller if needed. He thought the front roller should only take the knee long enough to miss the crossmember and then lose contact altogether when the boat is nested on the trailer.
Please forgive me if I’m talking out of turn here. I have yet to fight the fight. He made me feel kinda dumb for even bringing it up.
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Todd,
No forgiveness needed, I gladly welcome all suggestions and opinions. Sandy is correct, I found out the hard way to lower the rear and raise the front.
I will probably load the boat under power and I thought what could happen if one roller slips or bends and my keel hits the crossmember, so I put in 2 keel rollers.
I highly suggest borrowing / renting the screw type boat stands if you adjust the bunks with the boat on the trailer.
If I did it again I would:
- Remove all the nuts to be adjusted/removed and apply anti-seize
- Raise the front bunks and lower the rear bunks
- Spread the main bunks for better support
- Install auxiliary front crossmembers and keel rollers
- When installing center bunk bolts, sight down the bunk to make sure it is not sagging before drilling and installing the bolt.
I do not understand Sandy's thought about "take the knee long enough to miss the crossmember and then lose contact altogether"
Before I installed the keel rollers, I could feel the boat move (up/down) when walking up to the cuddy, it did not seem stable, it does now.
When I adjusted the rollers and target bunks I raised the front of the boat 1/2" - 1" with a floor jack and piece of glue lam and adjusted the target bunks and rollers to land almost the same time. (target bunks a little tighter).
I can take a couple pics later showing the bunks position in the supports.
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Re: #3. Does spreading the rear bunks also lower the boat into the trailer? Did you need to notch the bunks into the trailer to get lower? Lastly, does the stringers land on the bunks?
Mine are already sitting low as possible although the knucklehead that drilled the holes did not use the same location in each mounting tab. Kinda annoying, but I’ll live with it.
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I will try to answer.
Spreading the bunks does lower the boat into the trailer, the bunks land on supports I did some measuring.
No I did not notch the bunks, and did not spread them far from where they were and the same knucklehead drilled my bunks. You can compensate by moving bunks slightly inward on the low side or slightly outward on the high side. Added some more pics.
From the front of the target bunks to the front crossmember is about 60" and to the bow eye is almost 9' so lots of overhang for the target bunks to support. 1-1/2" clearance to the front crossmember to keel.
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Update,
I mounted up all my doors, lids etc and forgot to take that pic, I will add it later.
I purchased a second fish finder that will share my transducers, I was going to mount it above rear station window but looking up sucks. I already installed my switch panel but I am considering moving it and installing the fishfinder in its place.
Just have to figure out where to put the switches, any suggestions?
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Check out Ram Mount. They may have a solution. I think they have some pretty cool stuff.
On a side note, what stuff will you be switching from the second station? I honestly had plans to have nothing out there except the helm and binnacle. I may need to rethink
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Todd,
The things I can switch from the rear are the washdown, gunnel lights, fish box and led drain plug, oh and the horn. We almost had a collision with another boat, other boat barely missed our stern and the captain was not at the helm and neither were we, yelling did not get his attention.
Never heard of Ram Mount but I will check into it, Thanks!
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Great point about the horn at the second station. I will have to keep that in mind. What if you mount that switch vertically on the port side of the face with the wheel on it? Kinda sucks that the stickers would be oriented the wrong way though, but they would be easily accessible. BTW, I like that switch. Do you have a link?
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I haven’t got far enough along for too much thinking on wiring stuff. You make a good argument for the horn especially. Shorter wire runs too for the stuff in the cockpit. I like it
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Switch panels I got thru New Wire Marine, you design what switches etc. I chose circuit breaker style to eliminate another fusepanel.
https://newwiremarine.com/product/e-panel-builder/ (https://newwiremarine.com/product/e-panel-builder/)
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more pics:
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That looks great!! What are your plans for the decks and interior side panels?
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Non skid on the floor and just sanitred coating on the sides. I will do that last.
I finally drilled the transom, I borrowed a jig, removed jig and drilled 1 size larger. Using a dauber coated 2 coats a day for 5 days. I am confident it is protected. ;D
On edit, fixed the photo.... I posted that from my phone and it did not work so good.. :o
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Looks good from here ... :D
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The quality of your work always looks so good that the rest of us now have something to aim for.
100/100
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Now I know where all the hinges went, Ha Ha. The boat is looking great you can see the finish line.
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Todd has inspired me to work on my boat! I spent the day sanding (go figure) and varnished my grab rails and put the dash covering on. If you remember I did not make room for the compass so I redid it. Instead of painting I put a textured dash in. I have to wait 24 hours between coats so a couple more days to finish the varnish.
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What type of varnish are you using? I used rustoleum marine spar varnish for some, didn't really like it. Switched over to total boat gleam, like it more, but curious what you are using? Everything looks great. I need to post some pics, I just haven't felt like I have had anything pic worthy. I should probably post more...
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Those switch panels look sweet! As does everything else. What are your plans for the PH Ceiling? It’s super shiney, are you leaving it as is?
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Good morning!
Answer to questions, the varnish I used is Sikkens Cetol Marine Teak, It was easy to brush on and only have one coat on so I will update when done. The only reason I used it was for the teak bow grab rails, says it can be used on any wood so I did. The only other varnish I have used was on my house door.
For the interior of the pilot house and cuddy I purchased Hull Liner. I need to install the Hull Liner before installing windows, once I finish the varnish I will move forward.
https://www.amazon.com/Interlux-IVA316-QT-Natural-Fluid_Ounces/dp/B0017KQKX8/ref=sr_1_2?crid=3OZ3SSPCEP895&keywords=sikkens%2Bcetol%2Bmarine%2Bnatural%2Bteak&qid=1639751733&sprefix=sikkens%2Bcet%2Caps%2C152&sr=8-2&th=1 (https://www.amazon.com/Interlux-IVA316-QT-Natural-Fluid_Ounces/dp/B0017KQKX8/ref=sr_1_2?crid=3OZ3SSPCEP895&keywords=sikkens%2Bcetol%2Bmarine%2Bnatural%2Bteak&qid=1639751733&sprefix=sikkens%2Bcet%2Caps%2C152&sr=8-2&th=1)
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I know there was some discussions on the windows and hull liner. Did you plan ahead to add hull liner into the clamping sandwich? Motion said it would not work in my case. I’m wondering how hard it would be to put the hull liner flush to the clamp ring?
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You can install the windows, and temp install the trim rings (over the hull liner) then cut around the hull liner using trim ring as your guide, remove the trim ring and pull the hull liner off where you trimmed it. Just remember not to apply a bunch of contact cement in the area of the trim ring.
There are other work arounds to the Windows + Hull Liner issue. The best way is to measure your finished thickness of the window opening including the hull liner and order the correct trim ring. I did not think that far ahead..
Motion sells a trim ring spacer but its $2 per foot, I only need 1/16" so I will need 2-3 roll's of neoprene tape available on Amazon. I will install the gasket between the trim ring and window frame.
https://www.boatwindows.com/boat-window-installation/ (https://www.boatwindows.com/boat-window-installation/)
https://www.boatwindows.com/shop-parts/#!/1-8-Trim-Ring-Spacer-Gasket-Per-Foot/p/13133152/category=3007613 (https://www.boatwindows.com/shop-parts/#!/1-8-Trim-Ring-Spacer-Gasket-Per-Foot/p/13133152/category=3007613)
https://www.amazon.com/Density-Neoprene-Stripping-Insulation-Soundproofing/dp/B07WGTG8RP/ref=sr_1_5?crid=OIGT7Z5E1CCO&keywords=neoprene+tape+1%2F2%22+wide&qid=1639759656&sprefix=neoprene+tape+1%2F2+%2Caps%2C1113&sr=8-5 (https://www.amazon.com/Density-Neoprene-Stripping-Insulation-Soundproofing/dp/B07WGTG8RP/ref=sr_1_5?crid=OIGT7Z5E1CCO&keywords=neoprene+tape+1%2F2%22+wide&qid=1639759656&sprefix=neoprene+tape+1%2F2+%2Caps%2C1113&sr=8-5)
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Brian,
Here are a couple pics of transom:
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You can install the windows, and temp install the trim rings (over the hull liner) then cut around the hull liner using trim ring as your guide, remove the trim ring and pull the hull liner off where you trimmed it. Just remember not to apply a bunch of contact cement in the area of the trim ring.
There are other work arounds to the Windows + Hull Liner issue. The best way is to measure your finished thickness of the window opening including the hull liner and order the correct trim ring. I did not think that far ahead..
Motion sells a trim ring spacer but its $2 per foot, I only need 1/16" so I will need 2-3 roll's of neoprene tape available on Amazon. I will install the gasket between the trim ring and window frame.
https://www.boatwindows.com/boat-window-installation/ (https://www.boatwindows.com/boat-window-installation/)
https://www.boatwindows.com/shop-parts/#!/1-8-Trim-Ring-Spacer-Gasket-Per-Foot/p/13133152/category=3007613 (https://www.boatwindows.com/shop-parts/#!/1-8-Trim-Ring-Spacer-Gasket-Per-Foot/p/13133152/category=3007613)
https://www.amazon.com/Density-Neoprene-Stripping-Insulation-Soundproofing/dp/B07WGTG8RP/ref=sr_1_5?crid=OIGT7Z5E1CCO&keywords=neoprene+tape+1%2F2%22+wide&qid=1639759656&sprefix=neoprene+tape+1%2F2+%2Caps%2C1113&sr=8-5 (https://www.amazon.com/Density-Neoprene-Stripping-Insulation-Soundproofing/dp/B07WGTG8RP/ref=sr_1_5?crid=OIGT7Z5E1CCO&keywords=neoprene+tape+1%2F2%22+wide&qid=1639759656&sprefix=neoprene+tape+1%2F2+%2Caps%2C1113&sr=8-5)
Interesting. Thank you. They didn’t offer a suggestion or workaround when I inquired. I will keep this in mind. I hope to use the boat some before it’s completely upholstered.
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Brian,
Here are a couple pics of transom:
Thanks! Really turned out sweet too!
bd
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Looks really good!!
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Its been slow on the forum (and my build) but I have been gathering supplies for interior "Hull Liner" and lots of electrical stuff, I will take some pics when I have more to show.
I built the base for the removable cuddy cushion and just finished wrapping the edges. I absolutely love the 1" fiberglass tape to finish the edges, so easy to do. Just roll or brush some epoxy on the edges and wait a couple hours to get good and sticky and apply the fiberglass tape dry and it stays put. Follow with a coat of raw epoxy on the edges and follow up with another thickened coat of epoxy.
Couple pics for the heck of it:
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Are you then cutting it off flush with the surface once it starts to harden??
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RE: "Are you then cutting it off flush with the surface once it starts to harden??"
I will trim it off tomorrow after it is completely set with a snap blade type utility knife. I have done it both ways and its easier when the glass is not sticking to my fingers.
I use the Shinto Rasp the most to remove the leftover glass and drips after trimming with the razor knife and/or a good carbide scraper. Whatever works and for non cosmetic trimming you can literally sand the protruding glass off with a d/a.
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RE: "Are you then cutting it off flush with the surface once it starts to harden??"
I will trim it off tomorrow after it is completely set with a snap blade type utility knife. I have done it both ways and its easier when the glass is not sticking to my fingers.
I use the Shinto Rasp the most to remove the leftover glass and drips after trimming with the razor knife and/or a good carbide scraper. Whatever works and for non cosmetic trimming you can literally sand the protruding glass off with a d/a.
LOVE those rasp, they know how to remove material
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Update,
I was going to install VHF overhead but the fishing pole rack makes it too crowded and I don't want to stand up to access the radio, so I added a mount for it. I could/should have made the dash have a little more room below the steering wheel and switches and installed the vhf there. Hindsight..
I made some backing plates for the ceiling lights, horns and the radar which I have not purchased yet but I will be. I want the supports already in and ready.
pics:
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thanks for the picture of your edging tape got it now.
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Rbob, to you remember where you bought your switch panels? I rally like that idea
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Todd,
"remember where you bought your switch panels?"
Yes, NewWireMarine. You design anyway you want:
https://newwiremarine.com/product/e-panel-builder/ (https://newwiremarine.com/product/e-panel-builder/)
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👍. Thank you
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I've been unsatisfied with all the switch panels I've used over the years and have recently discovered the Newwire panels and am planning to specify them for a complete re-wiring job on a client's boat - they're the most compact solution with good labeling I've seen yet for simple switch panels. I think I still prefer standard Blue Sea breaker panels for cost/benefit but for switch-only panels the Newwire is the way to go.
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Re. VHF. If your radio includes AIS, did or do you plan to install a seperate ant for it?
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Tom, Good morning,
re: "did or do you plan to install a separate ant for it?"
My radio (Standard Horrizon GX2400) is AIS/GPS and has an internal antenna and I am thinking about adding the optional antenna although I am not sure it is necessary. My prior boat had VHF with AIS and was awesome to know what big ships and charter boats were close by in the fog etc. AIS = poor mans radar is a great tool but fishing halibut last year with a buddy we were struggling finding the "spot". He was able to find a group of boats on radar about a mile offshore from where we were and we moved near them and started catching halibut. That is why I am planning for radar.
Good to hear from you, hope all is well,
Bob
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I started with electrical and looking at the marinco wiper controller, instead of 1/4" female spade connector I decided to use packard 56 terminals since I had them from a previous wiring job and they have constant tension on the terminal (and the special crimp pliers).
I mounted the battery switch, busbars and fuse holders on a single board and will mount the board in the rear helm cabinet along with shunt-negative busbars.
Sneak peak:
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Nice, professional, heavy-duty ... but I wonder about those spade-like connectors. Do they lock together? If so, are they hard to disconnect again?
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Brian,
"but I wonder about those spade-like connectors"
The Packard 56 terminals slide together the same as the spade connectors, but they do not become loose over time, the tab on the 56 style keeps tension on the male spade terminal they slide onto. Hope that makes sense.
"The Packard Type 56 line of electrical connectors and terminals are the standard OEM connectors on American cars for the 50’s, 60’s, 70’s, and early 80’s. These electrical connectors, which were used throughout the engine compartment and vehicle, have since been replaced by sealed connectors."
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Thanks! Learn something every day ...
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Not much to show but I did get the electrical board installed and couple wires crimped and installed before mounting.
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Electrical is not easy for me, spend most of my time thinking and re-thinking. It is painfully slow but mostly because my lack of experience but I am going to get this done no matter..
One thing I found was cable tie saddle's and zip ties that releasable so I dont have to cut them loose.
Here are some progress pics of the front power distribution, hopefully tomorrow I will have something closer to finished, at least for the wiring. Comments and suggestions welcome.
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Unbelievable work, what attention to detail.
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Looking good! Take it slow and think through it, it's not as intimidating as it seems... I hooked up a bench power supply to my fuse boxes to test loads, makes it a little less unknown for that portion. Start with the fused loads and work your way back to hooking up the whole thing. It is super interesting to see how everyone else is tackling this part of the build too.. glad I am part of this forum.
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"bench power supply"
Good idea, I will add some power and test as I go just need some components hooked up.
Its nice to have New Wire Marine switch panel with 2' leads already labeled making it easy to sort and install on terminal strips.
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I once completely, from scratch, rewired a 64 IH scout 80. I made a spreadsheet with wire size, color, terminations, and numbered each end. Made it nice a year later when I had to expand or fix something
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Thats cool, still have the IH Scout?
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I sold it several years ago to finance a dive boat project. My daughter found it on CL some time ago. It’s exactly the same as I sold it
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Rare to see IH Scouts and that one definitely gets your attention.
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Love the use of link bars to connect busses and switches for your high-amp connections - I'm planning to do the same for a complete electrical replacement on a boat. Also, I hear you on how slow this process is. I take a lot of time making a detailed drawing and having all my loads on a spreadsheet so I can confidently calculate wire sizes. Then I can go through the drawing, order all the parts, and have maybe 80% of what I need on the first order. Keep up the good work, love it!
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Rare to see IH Scouts and that one definitely gets your attention.
In my younger, wilder days! I built a v8, automatic chassis from a v8 scout 800 with spring over lift. Twin stick transfer case larger axles from a Scout 2. Then I lowered the body onto it. It was fun
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Thanks Dan,
I followed your lead and used a spreadsheet also for wire length, amp draw, wire size and fuse size which helped a great deal the rest is just me being an amateur (retard) for taking so long. ;D
For those that are interested in the link bars, they are all part of BEP Pro Installer series.
https://www.bepmarine.com/en/products/pro%20installer (https://www.bepmarine.com/en/products/pro%20installer)
I used graph paper to draw out how the components would fit together (about 8 times) then placed the order of mostly BEP products and a few Blue Seas because I already had them. I like how compact it ends up being.
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Todd,
RE: "In my younger, wilder days!"
We could write a book about those days!
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Still crimping, soldering, heat shrinking and installing cables. I thought I would have some Nav Lights lit up but I did not quite make it but real close.
The bad? I crimped the wrong lug on and had to cut it off, I soldered a battery terminal when I should have put a lug on.
I soldered on a battery terminal on and forgot the heat shrink so had to remove the lug then slip the heat shrink on and re-solder it.
The good? I am getting pretty good at it! I cut the crimped lug to see how good the crimp looked on the inside and it looks like solid copper.
Some pics:
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Nice neat work ... good on ya. And this is why you buy a real quality crimper right at the git-go .... it's worth it.
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I have it powered up, Nav lights, panel lights and if I hook up a couple wires my windlass.
Working in confined spaces are hard on my back and knees so I took my time (excuse) and took breaks as needed. Here is what I have to show:
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Wow, awesome. That’s looking really good! Congrats!
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Wow,
What beautiful work. Continued to be impressed by the quality of work you do.
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I found a use for my hole saw left over plugs, made pucks to attach cable clamps and pass thru for windshield. Going down rabbit holes for wiring runs and making more work for myself. Pics below.
In the meantime, I ordered Garmin Radar GMR 18 xHD and external gps-position sensor along with the n2k network stuff. Should be here next Friday.
I really wanted the Garmin Fantom Radar but it was not compatible with my existing chartplotter and sonar module.
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Re: pucks. Did you do much surface prep to the already painted stuff? Was it difficult to make them look part of original build. They do look good.
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RE: "Did you do much surface prep"
The pucks were already glassed on the front, so I wrapped with 2" fiberglass tape and 1 fill coat (and filled the hole with resin). Sanded 220 and 320. Cheated a little, took them to my shop and painted them in the paint booth, had left over white base coat and clear coat. Nice to glue down already painted.
Not much prep:
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I am endlessly going down rabbit holes.... but when UPS showed up today, I forgot what I was doing and unpackaged the radar and misc.
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Nice looking work. It seems I remember you changed your mind about the battery hold downs. Have you made a decision on how you are going to secure them?
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re: changed my mind about the battery hold downs.
Yes, the ones I bought took up too much room. Its tight with 3 batteries so I made the brackets out of left over phenolic G-10. Page 59 of my build post #873 has a pic.
And this close-up:
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Ok. Thx. That looks great !
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Waiting for some supplies to show up so I have been working on support for cuddy mattress, I have drilled holes in the roof for the radar and antenna and been coating the holes with several coats of epoxy, pics of that when I get closer.
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Added a fill coat and tried out the mattress support, Its strong!
NMEA network is almost complete, rear helm and ext GPS/position sensor will do it for now leaving 3 extra ports if I ever need to add something.
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Nice, looking good, I like the support. I might need to do something like that, I haven’t put too much thought into it yet. Looks like it fits well tho…
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Power to Chartplotter at rear helm, installed right angle connector on the nmea 2000 cable and just need to shorten the Garmin network cable to complete. The nmea 2000 connectors are not all the same as I found out, they all fit the backbone fine but the device can be clocked differently. AKA another rabbit hole.
The angled protrusion on the left is for the hydraulic steering fill, warning to others make sure you have plenty of drop to your rear helm or you will be doing similar.
On edit, I forgot the pic...
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My NMEA Network is working! Battery monitor works also. My first time terminating these tiny wires, pretty easy just tiny. Not much to show but here it is:
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That’s cool. This made me remember that I had to make a bunch of cat5 cables once upon a time, thinking about it is much more intimidating than actually doing it. Lookin good tho, I bet it feels good to get the system powered up. I did my chart plotter the other day and was blown away by how nice it is (details on the charts, responsiveness of the touchscreen, etc).
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"thinking about it is much more intimidating than actually doing it"
;D
So true, and wearing 2 pair of reader glasses so I could see the colors on the cut off plug. I did not trust my eyes so I confirmed the colors with an ohm meter.
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Check this out, a remote control for my windlass:
https://youtu.be/rrBNcRH3zHQ (https://youtu.be/rrBNcRH3zHQ)
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That remote looks like it is gonna be a great deal.
Re: your mattress support. I am planning on nearly the same thing. I have a wallas heater and haven’t decided where to put the register. My initial instinct was to put it low where it would blow under the added support. I’m not sure how well that would work.
Will you be ducting heat into the cuddy?
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Yes,
I will be ducting into the cuddy, just have not figured out where and how. I want registers to defrost the windshields, thinking of making a plenum since not much room for 3" ducting on ceiling of cuddy.
If anyone has ideas or plans for ducting, please share.
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I like the plenum idea, however my cuddy supports may make something like that problematic, but there usually is a way. My less than photographic memory makes me think Skanmarine In Seattle said the defrost ducts would not be needed with the Wallas? I’m hoping that if necessary it is a easy add on using your plenum suggestion
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I set the radar on the roof so I can cut the cables for length, they send 49' power and network cable. Enough power cable left over for the mast light.
Horns are wired to a relay up front, so no voltage drop from rear helm.
Sound bite below.
https://youtube.com/shorts/pBcoD1UI4eU?feature=share (https://youtube.com/shorts/pBcoD1UI4eU?feature=share)
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That looks like a great place to mount the horns. I had horn exposed and it never lasted a season. I gave up and got a jet ski horn in a bottle.
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Does Garmin provide any specs for line of sight forward? Like, when looking over the visor so you can see close-up obstacles?
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RE: "Does Garmin provide any specs for line of sight forward?"
This is what they show:
BEAM WIDTH 5.2° horizontal, 25° vertical
MAX RANGE 48 nm
MINIMUM RANGE 20 meters
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RE: "Does Garmin provide any specs for line of sight forward?"
This is what they show:
BEAM WIDTH 5.2° horizontal, 25° vertical
MAX RANGE 48 nm
MINIMUM RANGE 20 meters
Looks like no need for aiming up or down, that a straight-out shot 'looks' as close as you can look in front of the boat, and way further than you'd need. I've only heard good things about Garmin radar...
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Well,
You wont believe it, with the help of my nephew Andrew and my wife Tiffany we got the motors installed today and it went without a hitch.
The kicker is not bolted because I have reservations about drilling 4 more holes and I want to check a couple more times before I commit.
Pics:
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Dang, nice! One step away, you are right there! Stellar work as always! I gotta think about the kicker, my single will probably be good for the splash and until I need a second in some situation comes up I hadn't considered haha. That's got to feel good tho, congrats!
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Looking great! When are you planning on launching? Did that motor mount plate come with the motor?
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Looks good Robert!
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so sweet!!!
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Thanks for the compliments!
I plan on launching as soon as I can, that said I was called back into work so working part time on my boat again.
The transom support plates I got from Lunar Marin:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/274903989425?hash=item40018dfcb1:g:i9gAAOSwfbxhFn4e (https://www.ebay.com/itm/274903989425?hash=item40018dfcb1:g:i9gAAOSwfbxhFn4e)
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Thanks for the compliments!
I plan on launching as soon as I can, that said I was called back into work so working part time on my boat again.
The transom support plates I got from Lunar Marin:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/274903989425?hash=item40018dfcb1:g:i9gAAOSwfbxhFn4e (https://www.ebay.com/itm/274903989425?hash=item40018dfcb1:g:i9gAAOSwfbxhFn4e)
looking real sweet!!!
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I got called back to work so working part time again which sucks.
I ordered steering hoses, shifter cables etc and will install to motors once received.
Upholstery, windows and non-skid is on the to do list.
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I could not use the reinforcement plate for the lower inside (big motor) because of a brace so I ordered the round ones.
while mounting the kicker I was unhappy with the big mounting bolts / washer deal so I tested one of the round ones from the big motor and it fits perfectly.
Once kicker is mounted with the thru bolts I will glue the big transom support washer in place so the kicker mount bolts will tighten against the transom support washers.
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Lucky fit! I know that some have ground a flat spot on one side of plates and washers to make them fit as well... whatever it takes! Those round 'plates' you got look like the bomb... :D
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Re. pict of your wiring layout, where is that located? It doesn't look like it's behind the console....?
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RE: Lucky fit!
That did not work out, my thru bolts are in the way so I took out the big washer headed bolts on motor. If I did it again I would not have drilled the upper transom bolts, just the lower ones then I could have used those cool anodized support washers.
Anybody want a good deal on those washers? pm me.
Tom e, the wiring layout I think you are referring to is on the inner starboard hull, beside the captains chair.
on edit,
Got up at 5:00 this morning and installed the kicker by myself including the tie bar to big motor.
Drilled holes for hydraulic bulkhead hoses and pole holders. Applying epoxy on the holes every hour until I have plenty on/in the holes.
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I switched gears for a bit, I needed my ceiling completed prior to finishing my wiring so got a fair amount of hull liner applied. I added 1/4" landau top foam on the sides and cuddy interior for sound / and insulation.
Laundau top adhesive and a cheap harbor freight spray gun makes quick work of applying glue. Trimmed with razor knive and wide drywall knife as a guide.
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great idea with the drywall blade, thanks for the post, Ms Jones and I have a ton of headliner and insulation in our future.
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Wow that headliner looks sweet
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Had a small burst of energy after work today. Port side lower completed.
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That liner looks really good. I am looking forward to seeing how you finish out your ph!
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I agree. Me too. Looks great
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I found some more un-used energy last night!!
Starboard side lower done. A bit challenging since I already installed the shifter but still happy.
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I ran out of glue, I used 2 gallons so far. I installed foam and fabric on the anchor locker bulkhead, and a second layer of foam on starboard side cuddy ceiling. Since I did not insulate the cuddy roof I plan on 2 layers of 1/4" closed cell foam (landau top foam) on the cuddy ceiling and upper sides of cuddy.
Progress pics:
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3rd gallon of glue showed up today so more hull liner to install tomorrow.
In the mean time I made some shoes for my cleats to sit on.
Why? Its easy to over tighten the cleans and sink the cleat into the wood, it happened on my bow cleat at windlass. Since I want the cleats really tight and secure I thought it would be a little work for some added security.
The phenolic g10 is has a High tensile strength 51kpsi listed.
Any way here they are:
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Back to the Hull Liner:
Trying to finish the Cuddy today. It is more time consuming than I thought at first, go figure!!
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Looking sweet ... and I like the hidden wire track :)
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I have a couple more wires to run then I will tighten up the zip ties and trim them.
I suck at figuring out how much glue I needed. Its going to need another gallon, thats 4 total.
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Work of a master craftsman, thanks for the pictures, giving us lots of ideas.
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Lindy,
Thank you for the compliment. "Work of a master craftsman"
I keep faking it till I make it!
Good news is an upholstery guy I know was kind enough to pour off a gallon of landau contact cement, so I do not have to wait another week to keep going on the hull liner.
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Bob, What level of VOCs are you dealing with?
The last time I had anything to do with contact cement, a fella had to wear a full faced, heavy duty, carbon-based respirator. And then it took more than a day to get the fumes out of the building I was working in.
BTW regardless, I'm jealous. What a fine interior you'll have!
te
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Tom,
"What level of VOCs are you dealing with? "
Along with the exhaust fan on and a door cracked I wear a paint respirator. I cannot smell fumes or have eyes burning etc. A good painting type respirator is a must as is good air flow.. Your health matters.
The link is for the "disposable" one is a medium, I wear a large (07193) They come with pre-filters. Keep them in the ziplock bag they come with when not in use.
BTW, the Alexseal fumes are at least twice as bad.
https://www.amazon.com/3M-07192-Paint-Spray-Medium/dp/B0002STR22/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=3m%2B07193&qid=1650983285&sr=8-5&th=1 (https://www.amazon.com/3M-07192-Paint-Spray-Medium/dp/B0002STR22/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=3m%2B07193&qid=1650983285&sr=8-5&th=1)
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Did you mention the name of the hull liner you are using. It looks amazing.
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The Hull Liner I got from Rex Pegg Fabrics but you can look up hull liner its available from lots of suppliers.
http://rexpeggfabrics.com/index.php?prodID=1969&cat=Marine%7C110%7C (http://rexpeggfabrics.com/index.php?prodID=1969&cat=Marine%7C110%7C)
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I have Hull liner completed on starboard side, windshield and port side to go then I will be installing windows. Sneak peak at window install also.
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That really looks good.
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Found a boost of energy and finished the windshield hull liner.
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I can't stop being amazed by the outstanding job on the hull liner ... wow!
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I’m very impressed too. Amazed at how well you are able to follow the contours.
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Thanks for the compliments!!
I finished the port side tonight, one step closer.
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On the center pic above. Across the roof and over the square nailer/support piece to the top edge of the window. Is that one continuous fabric?
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Todd,
"Across the roof and over the square nailer/support piece to the top edge of the window. Is that one continuous fabric?"
Yes.
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You sir are a magician!
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I wont be making much progress this weekend, granddaughter's soccer game today and Mothers Day tomorrow so I thought I would post the one completed windows install. The gap / wall thickness I discussed prior I solved by ordering 5/8" ss black screws and 1/2" wide x 1/8" thick rubber. I marked and drilled with a little brass tube and glued with weatherstrip cement. I am happy with the results.
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Had a little time on my hands so put I put in 2 more windows.
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Nice and professional! I like how you've maximized visibility through all the windows ... :D
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Spent Saturday watching my Granddaughter's Volleyball game. I did manage to get the 1/8" rubber spacers drilled and glued onto all the windows.
Sunday, I am on a roll, I installed 4 side windows so far and after some lunch I will get the front windows in.
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Front windows are in!! Happy dance!
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Took a few days for shrimping in the San Juans, back at it soon.
On a side note I observed the fuel burn on Ray's 23' Thunderjet Offshore Yamaha 250
17.8 gallons per hour..
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I started hooking up hydraulic lines and realized I would be better off if I finished the swim step's non-skid. Went down easy, masking before each application since you pull the tape while it is still wet so the edges stay clean.
I have a gallon of white and a gallon of gray rubber coating (Sanitred's Permaflex), probably a gallon of soft sand is way more non-skid than I will ever need.
White was really bright and not wanting too dark of a gray I added 20% gray to the white.
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Looks perfect, amazing work
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That looks awesome, nice work rbob!
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Hello, re: the Tesselmare rub rails you bought? I’m having a hell of a time finding a vendor. Could you please share your source? Thanks
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I am sure this is where i bought them:
[https://www.go2marine.com/search?keywords=Tessilmare]
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Taking some personal time for me and my wife, southern California sunshine for 3 weeks. I cant wat to get busy on my boat heading for the finish line..
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I am sure this is where i bought them:
[https://www.go2marine.com/search?keywords=Tessilmare]
Thanks Robert I’ll give them a look. Happy and safe travels
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I bought mine from Fisheries Supply, Seattle.
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Thanks, TE. Will check there too.
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Bob - how's the boat looking these days? I keep expecting a picture of it on the big blue to show up...
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My boat project has stalled, dealing with some health issues besides working full time. The outboards are 90% connected, just need to install clean power harness and finish the hydraulic steering, the kicker is all hooked up.
I thought I would have it in the water this summer but sometimes life gets in the way. Not to worry, I will keep pushing on just not as hard as I was.
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Dang, sorry to hear that. Sounds like you are close in any case...
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Dang, sorry to hear that. Sounds like you are close in any case...
Yes, sorry to hear of health issues ... but, get a little done now and then as life allows and it'll get done.
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Looks like I may get something done this weekend, soccer games are finished.
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Does this help?
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Todd,
Yes it does. Thank you!
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I have been working and making some progress on my boat, its close to completion and will try to launch this summer. Lighting on the helm wiring access is triggered by a magnetic switch on the ground circuit, open and you can see without the use of flash light etc.
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Wow,
Looks great! glad to see ya back in the game.Cant wait for the launch.
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Very innovative and good looking work.
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Daaaamn! Fine job throughout. I would love to snuggle into that Vberth. The extra touches on the wipers, everything! Makes me feel like my boat is very utilitarian. I sure hope I can see it in person some time.
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I wish my boat looked as good as yours. You are the "Master". Thank you for pushing all of us to build fine boats.
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Thanks to all of you for the kind words and support.
Still chugging along making progress, seats are installed. I have to complete the non-skid on the pilot house and rear deck. Oh, I remodeled the storage compartment to include foot rest storage box's.
Pics:
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Looks a little quite on the forum, I do have seats installed and non skid in Pilot House and Cuddy, I should be able to complete the Non skid on the aft.
Not sure how others installed the HIN tag so I decided to inlay it partially. I was lucky, I did not go thru the glass when inlaying the HIN tag.
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Beautiful HIN tag ... how big is it? I assume you'll epoxy coat the inset and use caulk when screwing the HIN on? Got a second one to go in a hidden place that only you know?
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Its 5" x .7" Yes , I have one coat of epoxy on the inset and iwll add one more coat before bedding in 2-part epoxy seam sealer, second one to install in the "hidden place"
on edit,
I purchased the tags from Lunar Marine:
https://www.lunarmarine.com/product/316-ss-hin-tag/ (https://www.lunarmarine.com/product/316-ss-hin-tag/)
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What a nice job. As I said before, your work makes mine so utilitarian. I bought a harbor freight stamp set, 5200, and some screws
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Those HIN tags are awesome too ...
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What a nice job. As I said before, your work makes mine so utilitarian. I bought a harbor freight stamp set, 5200, and some screws
I have a knack for making things take longer and more difficult than it needs to be.
I would have been fishing by now if...
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When you are ready, you are ready!
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What a nice job. As I said before, your work makes mine so utilitarian. I bought a harbor freight stamp set, 5200, and some screws
I have a knack for making things take longer and more difficult than it needs to be.
I would have been fishing by now if...
My builder must be related ... going on THREE YEARS to build a house and shop. Every sub has a million excuses why they make you wait weeks and weeks for them, and all orders take weeks and weeks to get what you need. We must be at a negative priority ... sigh. Sorry ... venting here.
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Waiting for some non skid to dry on cuddy roof, a couple pics of HIN painstakingly installed with tamper-proof machine screws:
I like the machine screws, used them on my deck plates also. Drilled a little deeper than the screws and tight enough for the machine screws to grab the wood and overdrill the first2/3rds of the hole so the thickened epoxy will form the threads. Coat the screws with WD40 and add thickened epoxy (think mayonnaise). Next morning unscrew the screws and scrape off excess and you have threaded holes for a strong install.
That is how to take a really long time to install a HIN!!!
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Preview of Cuddy Roof non-skid:
This is one coat of Permaflex over the soft-sand non skid. I am going to add one more coat and call it good enough. Then on to the aft deck non-skid.
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Looks very professional! Got a planned launch date?
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I like how the HIN number has GA28 in it. BTW that it by design, I have some discretion how I issue a HIN number:)
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Planned date? My only plan is to launch this summer, not going to stress to much about it. I added a 2nd coat of Permaflex to the Cuddy Roof non-skid and it looks better so good enough.
I need to order more Permaflex not sure I have enough for the aft deck so I think I will use what I have for the gunwale's.
That is cool that the HIN has GA28!!
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I like how the HIN number has GA28 in it. BTW that it by design, I have some discretion how I issue a HIN number:)
That would be cool. In Oregon it’s ORZ######## if the state issues it. Z is home built
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Wow, that HIN plate is so nice... Long time or not, you are going to have a real head turner when you get on the water. Your boat is turning out sooo nice.
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I like how the HIN number has GA28 in it. BTW that it by design, I have some discretion how I issue a HIN number:)
That would be cool. In Oregon it’s ORZ######## if the state issues it. Z is home built
The HIN identifies the boat manufacture (WEW) which is in this case is a kit from West Coast Boat Works. I'm registered as a boat manufacture with the US Coast Guard. The next 4 characters (SGA28) are listed at my discretion, in this case it stands for a standard 28' 8'6" GA. If it was a Kodiak the "S" would be a "K". The last 4 characters identify month and year of the boat. The OR number is a state registration number, it has nothing to do with the HIN:)
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Its been a masking marathon, I masked the perimeter of the non-skid, sand everything with #120, clean twice and mask for the areas I do not want non-skid (perimeter) and style lines.
I coated last night and added non skid, pulled the tape, added a coat of Permaflex this morning, pulled all the tape. This evening I will remask and give the final coat of Permaflex then on the the fish deck.
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Ok,
Final coat done last night at 9:00. Here is a few pics:
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That looks like a job well done! It looks awesome!
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I'm looking at that anchor winch ... looks like it feeds the rode into a chamber below ... can chain go through it too? Can you share brand and model? Looks 'just right sized'
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The windlass is an Anchorlift Barracuda, its not a freefall is my only regret.
Yes on the chain, I have 50ft of 1/4"
https://www.anchorliftdirect.com/product/barracuda-900-windlass-b912/ (https://www.anchorliftdirect.com/product/barracuda-900-windlass-b912/)
I have coated and applied the non-skid on the rear deck. I added soft-sand until rejection on the rear deck. I will vacuum up the surplus tomorrow and apply the final coats.
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Nice work. Really nice work. I’ll be doing the non skid paint this winter and polishing up some of the earlier finishing work. I had a HIN plate made and installed it with stainless screws and drilled out the slots so it can’t be removed.
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Non-Skid work is complete, just finished the second coat of Permaflex. I mixed 80/20 off white and gray to get the light gray, should be a little cooler to walk on. Cant wait to try it out.
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Not only great looking, it looks like it'll work well and be easy to clean too! In other words, "Just right!" :D
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I am really happy with how it turned out, went up this morning to take a look and its dried to an eggshell shine which should be easy to clean. I did not want glossy.
Pics:
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Wow that is looking good. Your non-skid looks really nice.
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Update,
I have an appointment with the Marine Surveyor on the 22nd. I have a question; Can I get it licensed without survey? My thought was survey is for insurance, just not sure.
Also started on boat cushions, going to give it a go, actually I cut out the foam cushions and my wife will sew them up. Sailrite has a great tutorial on making v-birth cushions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVDsT8QWxko (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVDsT8QWxko)
Here are a couple overview pics:
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Upholstery work in progress, pics as soon as Tiffany and I get it done. Meanwhile I have been adding misc. amenities, although not as cool as an anchor roller, I did install 500ft of 8-ply brait anchor rode and 75ft of 1/4" chain.
on edit: Added a quick video https://youtu.be/7JQ5TC5dP7c (https://youtu.be/7JQ5TC5dP7c)
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Where or how does your anchor well drain? Over the side or down to a bilge pump?
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Yes good question, for the drain I have shower type drains 1-1/2" each connected to pvc all the way to the bilge, should allow for good air movement.
I lost my mind for 3 1/2 hours looking for the bow eye!!! SOB My wife decided to help me look claiming I cand find milk in the refrigerator and found it in 20 minutes.
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That's how it is here ... something's not lost until my wife says it's lost. I can never find diddly and she finds it in 1 minute....
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ok, installed bow eye and attached the anchor rode with a Bolen.
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I also believe in keeping a sharp knife, in a sheath mounted to the boat, in the bow ... if you ever need to let that anchor go in a hurry, you'll thank me.
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I am stoked, Tiffany and I (mostly Tiffany) completed the cuddy cushions. Thanks to youtube (Sailrite videos) and Tiffany's skillset the cushions are done. I cut the templates for cushions and cut & glued the cushions. I used 2" semi firm and a 2" Serene topper. They are so comfortable it's hard to describe.
The coolest thing was wrapping the cushions in plastic and vacuuming them to 2/3rds their original size before slipping them into the covers.
Show time:
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Dang, nice job on the cushions. I need to get in gear and get mine done. Yours look fabulous.
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Update,
I have an appointment with the Marine Surveyor on the 22nd. I have a question; Can I get it licensed without survey? My thought was survey is for insurance, just not sure.
Also started on boat cushions, going to give it a go, actually I cut out the foam cushions and my wife will sew them up. Sailrite has a great tutorial on making v-birth cushions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVDsT8QWxko (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVDsT8QWxko)
Here are a couple overview pics:
In Oregon no survey was required for anything. I used the boat for nearly 9 months without a HIN or registration number on the hull. hope it helped with getting insurance in my case, which was extremely difficult and super lengthy.
I understand it’s kind of a personal thing, but I’d like to see us all report the survey value for the benefit of future builders. Hope your survey goes well and comes in wherever you need/expect it.
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With your cushions and couches that is going to be one comfy boat.
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Add the gentle, forgiving, motion of the boat combined with those cushions, you'll sleep like never before!
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Next week should be my week for launching!!
I have an appointment to have my motor programmed on Tuesday and will have necessary documents for getting it licensed.
I added a cushion on cuddy bulkhead just in case!! Survey was done, I do not have a copy yet but will post results. He was very impressed to say the least.
I have bled the hydraulic steering. I used "Outboard Specialty Tools Bubble Purge G2, that is the most amazing tool and highly recommend it for anyone bleeding hydraulic steering. I cannot move the motor period, in the video Tyler states that 1/4" is acceptable. I called and Tyler (owner) answered the phone and gave instruction for dual helm. You can look up youtube videos of the process.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07KFWZTHS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07KFWZTHS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
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Killer, you are due for a day on the water! Can't wait to see how it goes for you, also looking forward to hearing more about your survey.
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Survey is in!!
I guess he really liked my boat. Glad to have this part done, heading to Portland Wednesday for the motor start up programming. To be licensed soon.
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All I can say is ... (https://t4.ftcdn.net/jpg/02/09/65/05/360_F_209650573_aqlaXMxoBDMaXck0WQmnBryltJIwpK6F.jpg)
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I'm with Brian... That's incredible. You are setting the bar high for everyone in this community rbob :) Great job!
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That’s a beauty. I still think mine is way too low. I believe my boat is under valued.
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That’s a beauty. I still think mine is way too low. I believe my boat is under valued.
Yeah, the surveys vary a lot. I'll bet the same boat would vary plus/minus $50k or more if you took to several surveyors. I think Chuck Mazzola's fine boat should've appraised for more too ... it's a gem.
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What a great number! Congratulations!
Please let us know what your insurance is willing to cover -- value or replacement cost. Also, I didn't see that the numbers included the trailer? In any event, it's worth every cent of it!
Were you surprised at any of the detailed findings in the survey?
te
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Thanks for all the kind words. Surprised in the detailed findings?
My surveyor estimated the weight at 10,500lbs. A couple recommendations and suggested a bow rail although not in the report.
Now I know what "Bristol" means Brian! Thank you from the bottom of my heart, without you none of us would have the amazing Great Alaskan!
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Update,
I have licensed the boat today, headed to Portland tomorrow for the motor programming.
While I was at it, I finished a couple of items on the checklist: Mounted the boat hook and Tiffany made one more cushion that snaps to the lid. The thing I hate is the "Throwable Cushion". My plan is to have Tiffany make a new cover, Blue with white stripe. I see no restrictions for color on the throwable cushion.
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My less than photographic memory had me searching for a 24” diameter throwable ring. That’s what I ended up with anyway. It’s mounted to the PH door. A throwable cushion would sure be easier
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My less than photographic memory had me searching for a 24” diameter throwable ring. That’s what I ended up with anyway. It’s mounted to the PH door. A throwable cushion would sure be easier
Yeah, virtually all boat seat cushions are flotation devices nowadays. The ring might be easier to hold onto, for longer, by putting an arm through the hole (or two arms if you're "just little"). Also, the ring likely has line/rope on it ahead of time, ready to be used for throwing, hauling back and throwing again if necessary, or hauling a person back ... while seat cushions generally will not have a line/rope already tied to them and neither will most boats have a good coil of rope just waiting for this circumstance. I like the ring - and they look very salty, very boat-y...
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Agreed,
Rings look way better, I am re-thinking the cushion idea.
Good news is I have a running engine. I love the sound of it, I'm crazy about a Mercury!!
My kicker motor is leaking fuel though so I will address that tomorrow.
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I took my boat across the scales today, I towed it with my 2006 Nissan Titan because that's what I towed it with when I weighed the new trailer and completed "bare hull"
Had to go back to post #828 to find the previous weight.
It now weighs 5,040 with 25g of fuel. I believe filling it up will add another 360lbs.
Calling it 5,400 lbs.
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Could not take it, had to do a few more things before the launch:
I need to find out why videos are blurry, sent from a buddy boat..
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Spent the day on the water, I do have a couple minor things to address but the boat sits in the water well balanced. I will need to move my motor down 2 holes because of prop cavitation.
https://www.facebook.com/reel/678253187547474 (https://www.facebook.com/reel/678253187547474)
https://youtu.be/mGYwmnYGkjU?si=TJ3qoUowaGMJUDIa (https://youtu.be/mGYwmnYGkjU?si=TJ3qoUowaGMJUDIa)
https://youtu.be/iN0eKB0TF50 (https://youtu.be/iN0eKB0TF50)
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Wow again and congratulations!!! That's a beautiful boat!
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Way to go! It’s great seeing you get your boat on the water! Turned out fantastic…
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Wow, this will be the 1st outboard I'm aware of that is mounted too high. Looking back to page 65, it does look like your anti-ventilation plate is a few inches higher than the bottom of the hull. It should be somewhere around 1/2" to 1" higher than the hull for every 12" back from the transom. Also interesting that your 200HP engine is getting 17mph at 3580 rpm, whereas my 250 gets me a hair over 20 knots at that rpm, which is 23 mph and our boats are approximately the same weight I think.
Your finish work in the cabin with the upholstery, headliner, etc. is exemplary. Love all your craftsmanship!
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Congratulations. Looks great.
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Thanks to all for the kind words, means a lot!!!
Yes my motor is mounted too high for sure; I have 2 holes to lower it so maybe it will be ok, crossing my fingers.
It is amazing how easily it planes and how slow you can keep it on plane. I have reverse chines and the hull edges are as sharp as I could make them on the back and sides, maybe that helps a little.
I will report back after I lower my motor.
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Ok,
I lowered my motor 1.5 " It is in the top hole so no more lowering. It is almost touching the transom.
I will take it for a test run tomorrow. In the meantime, what do you guys think of the height?
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I probably should not chime in here because my knowledge of this kind of stuff is a bit foggy:) It's my understanding (read my prior disclaimer) your still to high. If your in your last hole moving down you might consider an extension bracket with manual or hydraulic adjustable lift. I'm pretty sure it would just mount in your existing transom holes
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I probably should not chime in here because my knowledge of this kind of stuff is a bit foggy:) It's my understanding (read my prior disclaimer) your still to high. If your in your last hole moving down you might consider an extension bracket with manual or hydraulic adjustable lift. I'm pretty sure it would just mount in your existing transom holes
I asked so thank you for chiming in. I have the same opinion and have considered the bracket idea, I will be heading out this afternoon for a test run. It was easy to take the motor off so other than getting a longer rigging tube and a bracket time will tell.
The anti cavitation plate is right at 2" above the bottom of the hull so rising an inch for every foot is going to be close.
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I probably should not chime in here because my knowledge of this kind of stuff is a bit foggy:) It's my understanding (read my prior disclaimer) your still to high. If your in your last hole moving down you might consider an extension bracket with manual or hydraulic adjustable lift. I'm pretty sure it would just mount in your existing transom holes
I asked so thank you for chiming in. I have the same opinion and have considered the bracket idea, I will be heading out this afternoon for a test run. It was easy to take the motor off so other than getting a longer rigging tube and a bracket time will tell.
The anti cavitation plate is right at 2" above the bottom of the hull so rising an inch for every foot is going to be close.
Motor looks high to me too. Best way to check is to get on a moderate plane, say 19-20 mph or so and have someone go take a look at how the cav plate is riding ... video it and look later if you want (don't drop your phone in the drink!).
If I were you, I'd not worry about a few inches of set-back and would add a manual jack plate to your line-up. If you ground out on a sandbar, you can jack the plate all the way up and try to use the prop to get off the sandbar - of course, send a couple of passengers over the side to rock and push the boat first (motor off, tilted up) ... running a prop close to the muck and sand can result in your cooling galleys getting plugged up ... then the marina mechanic has to poke long wires back and forth through your cooling system while trying to flush to get the muck out, and you know how summers are ... want your boat fixed fast?? Good one ... haahaaaa! Best to stay off the sand. In any case, a manual jack plate can help you out in an emergency and help you fine tune motor height as well.
Brian
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It's also been a minute since I was dealing with this type of thing, but I think my motor on a 4" bracket was about this position or height relative to the keel, and I ran into issues with cavitation. If you do run into issues then take a good hard long look at your steering and rigging to make sure it's going to fit with whatever bracket or jack plate that you choose. I don't think there was any 4" jack plate that would fit for my motor/transom.
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It's also been a minute since I was dealing with this type of thing, but I think my motor on a 4" bracket was about this position or height relative to the keel, and I ran into issues with cavitation. If you do run into issues then take a good hard long look at your steering and rigging to make sure it's going to fit with whatever bracket or jack plate that you choose. I don't think there was any 4" jack plate that would fit for my motor/transom.
json,
I studied your setup and looks like a 10" bracket would be in order if I go that route, crossing my fingers for sure..
on edit, this is what makes this sight so great.
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It's also been a minute since I was dealing with this type of thing, but I think my motor on a 4" bracket was about this position or height relative to the keel, and I ran into issues with cavitation. If you do run into issues then take a good hard long look at your steering and rigging to make sure it's going to fit with whatever bracket or jack plate that you choose. I don't think there was any 4" jack plate that would fit for my motor/transom.
What about a 6" manual jack plate? See any of those?
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What about a 6" manual jack plate? See any of those?
I *think* my issue was the rigging tube started interfering once I got past 4". 4" put the rigging tube above the step, but didn't let the steering clear. I think once I got to 6" I started running into issues with the rigging tube. At 10" I still have some issues with the rigging tube but I just try to keep the motor turned hard to port when I am putting the motor all the way up and it clears when I have it like that. For that reason I don't think I really considered a 6" jack plate.
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Test run proved that a setback bracket will be in order.
Disclaimer.
I made the transom taller than spec, my original plan was to offset the main motor 8" and balance with the kicker motor. (remember the Nolan notch? RIP) I changed my mind on the motor offset after I made the transom taller so that's on me. Hindsight I would have built the transom as spec'd by Brian.
I have looked at the options, because of steering ram on front of the outboard I see at least a 10" bracket. 8" inch looks like it will have clearance problems.
Bob's machine has fixed style brackets with 1.5" lift built. I do not see any reason I cannot mount that upside down to lower and 2 different mount options for height besides that along with the 5 holes on the outboard.
Only problem I anticipate is rigging tube length.
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Brian,
Moving the motor back 10" will do what to the balance?
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Brian,
Moving the motor back 10" will do what to the balance?
With your single motor, it won't have a huge impact. For the record, I know that I, myself, and some others have had issues with clearances versus Bob's Machine brackets. Do your research carefully before you pull the trigger on one ... their tech support was worthless. I'd pick a #1 manufacturer of a different brand.
Brian
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I would also verify with the tec turning upside down is not an issue. Also be sure there is no taper from top to bottom of the bracket...Just my 2 cents:)
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I used a atlas 4” jackplate plus 4” offset fixed. I really like the jackplate and make a game of tuning it to max economy. I’m sure a 8” atlas would work as well. I made a HD transom saver fwiw
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Todd,
Do you have a pic of the HD transom saver?
I need to study a little more before pulling the trigger. Most jack plates are made to raise the motor. Tech support at Bobs said reversing the bracket would create more clearance problems. He did stat that the motor in the middle hole gave the most clearance.
I really like the look of the Seastar and its anodized. Atlas / TH-marine has more adjustment.
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The no lift brackets from Bob's combined with a jack plate moved my motor down by maybe an inch, and when combined with the setback I think that was pretty much all I needed to get my prop on the right level.
https://bobsmachine.com/product/fixed-setback-brackets-no-lift/
I am not sure if that combo would be effectively the same as just an 8" jack plate, but since there is no lift and the transom is 14° or so angled down it lowers the jack plate as a result. When I look at the jack plates on their site they all look like they have lift integrated into them, although I am not 100% sure.
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Are you set against cutting your transom down to stock size and then refinishing it? A hassle, yes, but maybe getting the right bracket/jack-plate combo is too? Just wondering ...
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Are you set against cutting your transom down to stock size and then refinishing it? A hassle, yes, but maybe getting the right bracket/jack-plate combo is too? Just wondering ...
I will avoid cutting the transom at all costs, major surgery and repainting, yuk.
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I will avoid cutting the transom at all costs, major surgery and repainting, yuk.
Yeah, I see what you're saying. I wouldn't cut the transom either. I guess a bracket and/or jack plate is the solution. Maybe you can mount it a couple of inches low and also gain some advantage from the water rising behind the boat? Well ... it's all "new boat stuff" ... sometimes it takes a little to work minor bugs out and then after that, you just use it and have fun without stopping to think about it.
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Thank to everyone for the input, seeing what Todd and Json did helps. I did more measuring and phone calls to ech support. I ordered the 10" fixed bracket since it mount the motor just as low as the adjustable bracket, just have to use cherry picker. I should not have to move once I get it set.
In the mean time Tiffanny and I installed the graphics, it was Tiffany's design. She has graphics background and a keen eye for detail.
Her are a few pics:
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Wow! Beautiful graphics! Did you have a vinyl shop make decals or are they painted on?
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They are decals, Tiffany did the design and we sent it in to Boat Lettering to you, they sent us the proof's. They have stock graphics you can insert, we called them and they had us send it in.
https://boatletteringtoyou.com/lettering/ (https://boatletteringtoyou.com/lettering/)
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Sweet! I've bookmarked them ... might need them myself!
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I will try to get pic of the transom saver I made in The morning. FWIW I think my marine mechanic had to trim a bit off the top of the 4” spacer brackets that the jack plate mounts to. The entire jack plate was a pain altogether. I would do different next time.
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Transom saver. I made it from stuff I had on hand. I’m not a welder!
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That looks great!!
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It really does the job. It doesn’t touch the ground when down so it’s handy that way. We’ll find out if it holds up to a 1600 mile road trip coming up
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Todd,
Can you send a pic of where your bracket had to be trimmed?
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Yes, until then, it was cut off the top so the top edge of the bracket and top edge of the jack plate were at the same level
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Todd,
Ok, I understand what you did. Don't bother with the pic.
Before I install the motor I will mount bracket directly on motor and see if it clears the steering ram with full tilt up. I should have it tomorrow.
Thanks for your help as always.
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Sure. Here it is anyway
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Todd,
Thank you for that, nice to see up close.
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I got side tracked waiting for backet which I have. In the meantime, I installed defroster ducts and cuddy. It took me awhile to decide how to do it but I am happy with it.
Showtime:
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Wow! Looks like you've dialed it in pretty perfectly ... professional and effective!
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Wallas heater is amazing, plenty of air from the defrosters, I have a inline fan installed but have not wired it yet so expect to be defrosting windows quickly.
Here is first glimpse of my motor bracket installed. "Bob's Machine" 10" bracket with 1.5" of lift bult in. I installed it so 1.5" of lowering is bult in! This allowed me to raise my motor on the top hole and have plenty of clearance got the steering and rigging tube. I will be taking on a test run today.
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Looks great from here! How's the cav plate line up with the bottom of the V of the transom?
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Pic,
I will have to modify for full tilt up.
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Brian,
"As mentioned before, you measure the waterline from where the bow cuts water aft to where the waterline ends on the transom. That's your at-rest waterline length, and it's a design parameter (the 'design waterline' or DWL). For a PLANING hull, the window where the CG should land is 60-65% of that waterline aft of where the bow cuts water."
I measured the at rest waterline, its 297" Boat is 28' not counting the pulpit. The boat sits almost level using a bubble level on the rear deck. I am not concerned but the math still had me wondering what I was doing wrong.
On a side I did have to trim the bracket and I will trim it a little bit more tomorrow. I had to order another rigging tube since it is a little tight now but what's another $40?
I added a boarding ladder since the surveyor suggested it and grandkids had a little trouble getting up on the swimstep from the water. I should probably jump in the water and see what kind of struggle it would be climbing back into the boat.
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In the recent pic with the level extended from bottom of hull out to the lower unit, it appears to me that the anti-ventilation plate is about 1 1/2 to 2" BELOW the level of the bottom of the hull, whereas it should be about 3/4 to 1" ABOVE the bottom of the hull for every 12" aft the prop is from the transom because water rises in this area. So it seems like your engine should be raised about 4" from where it is. You will have greatly improved steering, greatly improved ability to trim the engine properly, and you might even gain a bit of efficiency. As is now, it looks like the anti-ventilation plate will plowing through the water rather than up near the surface of the water as intended.
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In the recent pic with the level extended from bottom of hull out to the lower unit, it appears to me that the anti-ventilation plate is about 1 1/2 to 2" BELOW the level of the bottom of the hull, whereas it should be about 3/4 to 1" ABOVE the bottom of the hull for every 12" aft the prop is from the transom because water rises in this area. So it seems like your engine should be raised about 4" from where it is. You will have greatly improved steering, greatly improved ability to trim the engine properly, and you might even gain a bit of efficiency. As is now, it looks like the anti-ventilation plate will plowing through the water rather than up near the surface of the water as intended.
Yeah, I mis-looked and retracted my statement. The cav plate does look low now. Curious to hear how it ran in the water. The "rises an inch for every foot of bracket" rule is more accurate on deep-V boats and you don't get as much rise behind the boat with this boat's 14-deg deadrise and mostly-prismatic hull form.
Glad to hear the boat trims well.
Brian
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Dan,
I can take another pic, pics can be deceiving and the pic is from the side of the lower unit. In the last test run the anti cavitation plate was near the surface barely. Water seems to rise about .5 inch per foot when observed while running.
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Another pic, strait edge is next to center strake. The anti-cavitation plate is 1/2 to 3/4 inch below the strait edge.
This will be my starting point. I will check prop slip to verify the efficiency.
On edit, I added another pic, I leveled the boat front to back and put level on anti-cavitation plate.
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That's a good starting point. "Work boats" generally run the anti-cav plate 3/4" below the bottom of the V while "sport boats" generally run the plate even with the bottom of the V. Sounds like 1/2" rise in water for each foot of bracket is what you observed? That sounds pretty accurate. It seems to indicate that you could run the cav plate higher by an inch or so? Testing tells all. For most of us, you want the anti-cav plate just skimming along on top or just below the water, making double sure that the motor is 'peeing' (cooling) OK ... and I'll say, "at 21 mph or so" ... every other speed should work fine if you have the motor optimized at that speed.
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After modifying the bracket for a little more clearance the motor will lift almost all the way up without interference, almost.. I thought about shortening the factory support lever 3/8" but its stainless and I would have to take it somewhere to have it welded.
So I thought about using a support tube, I had one on my 22' Raider with Honda BF200. You raise the motor and slide it onto one of the rods (not sure what they are called). I could not find one listed for a Mercury but I did find another style of bracket that snaps into the any of the transom tilt holes, it works absolutely perfect.
Both motors tilt and steer without issue. New stainless all-thread steering link is new and had to be bent for clearance. No tubes or hydraulic lines are getting crushed. Moral of the story is build the transom per spec! Should be able to do a test run today.
link for bracket:https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BRMZF2T7?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BRMZF2T7?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details)
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Oh! Yes, certainly, the new pic looks much more convincing - that looks prefect to me, glad it's running about right in the water. Onward!
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So I have water spraying because motor is a little too low, another exercise coming up.
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Still need to adjust motor but in the meantime, I installed my Sherpa winch. I also changed from surge brakes to electric/hydraulic. I dont have aluminum welding ability so I bought a RV Lockbox and mounted it to a 2" angle iron frame I made with u-bolts to attached to tongue and installed a .25 aluminum plate to mount battery on which lets any water drain out the bottom of the box.
Oh, Installed battery on/off switch to 500amp fuse to battery terminal feed-thru. I made custom length cables with soldered battery terminals and hydraulic crimp for the lugs. On to the motor adjustment.
Pics:
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Wow! Very professional! Good find on that RV lock box, and just the right size too. You're going to like that Sherpa ... :D
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Did you get the wireless remote too. It?s great!!
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Did you get the wireless remote too. It?s great!!
no, but I may. Time will tell.
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I like it. Sometimes I don?t even get out of the truck.
I?m curious how your battery does? I have a 150 amp fuse and can pop it if I?m pulling uphill
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Todd,
I would change the fuse, mine came with a 500 amp fuse.
I have not tried it yet but I will report back.
On edit,
Todd I read that pulling power is reduced as the diameter of the webbing increases which means more amp draw. So I was thinking that we really do not need 30ft of webbing, 20ft should be plenty. Just a thought.
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Good to know on the fuse. FWIW I quite often use more than 20 feet of strap. I often spool it almost to empty so I can hook it to the boat while standing on the dock. Otherwise I end up stepping on the fender and then onto the frame. Often getting my foot wet. Also I don?t like standing on the fender because they don?t feel up to a lard butt like me.
I love my electric/hydraulic disk brakes. I use one battery for both. Do you?
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Todd,
Yes, one battery for brake and winch. I have been walking down the tongue and hooking strap to bow eye, its a balancing act. I use a rope to pull the boat while standing on the tongue. I always think there has got to be a better way to do it. Driving the boat onto the trail scares me. Even my aluminum boat I would winch it on although I have driven that boat and a friends aluminum boat onto the trailer under power but windy conditions and current is not fun.
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I too, do not power onto the trailer. Even with the 250, there is not enough power to drive onto the trailer without it deep into the water. So why try. I will consider a larger fuse, but 500 Amps scares me. I know for a fact that 150 amps won't tear the bow eye out of the stem so there is that. You will like the winch!
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Went today for a boat ride, I am happy to report that propeller was really close to my target rpm's. 5,200 and 5,400 was the target. 4 people on board. The prop is 15.5x17 3-blade. No cavitation and no spray..
Maybe someone can tell me if this looks right, the anti ventilation plate :
On edit I should have taken video of the sherpa winch making it look easy to pull the boat onto the trailer, it wa worth every penny.
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Hi Robert, I've been wondering if there is any specific reason you didn't go with an adjustable jack plate? Only asking since you ended up with a transom stand off similar to me. I went through a substantial amount of pain getting the outboard to work with the transom too, albeit for different reasons. Now that it's all worked out I really like the jack plate. Just curios??
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Adjustable jack plate was more money, I figured once I got it Adjusted I wont need to move it. I am good with the bracket i have now,and it is easy for me to raise or lower outboard with cherry picker. By myself a 20 minute job. The first bracket i purchased was a waste of 300 bucks, 1.5 inch offset made it to high or to low. I am limited to 3/4" adjustment increments and I can move up or down without interference. I have good hindsight now.
On edit, if I remember correctly the adjustable brackets do not have much down travel.
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I think you are right about the down travel. Maybe I wouldn?t be as big a fan if I was properly set up. Not sure if I am or not. Either way it sounds like success. Thanks for the thoughtful answer
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Todd,
A good way to see if you are set up (I think / my opinion) is to use a prop calculator to see if you can get an improvement adjusting your motor up or down.
At set rpm say 3k, record your speed once trimmed the way you like and then adjust the motor up or down to see if your prop slip is less.
I am not there yet but I have found that a deeper set motor used more fuel vs too high and you get cavitation so it can make a difference.
https://bblades.com/propeller-slip-calculator/ (https://bblades.com/propeller-slip-calculator/)
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Yes, and as you experiment with how high you can go, keep an eye on the 'pee' from the motor to make sure that it's deep enough to get all the cooling water it needs. Dan Boccia found that, with his boat and configuration anyway, you could run the anti-cav plate higher than expected and still get enough cooling ... and higher gas mileage. It's worth experimenting with.
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I will try just for fun. I make a game out of adjusting the jack plate and trimming the engine to get 3 MPG. While at cruise I bring the engine up until it slips then back it down. Or I watch my GPH and increase/decrease speed until I get my speed 3X my consumption. usually when loaded for a day's fishing trip this speed happens at 30 MPH and 4200 RPM.
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3 mpg at 30 mph is pretty great! What can you get closer to 21 or so? Technically (which doesn't always agree with real life), 21 mph should be pretty optimal (plus or minus 2 mph)
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I?ll have to give it a try next time I?m out
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I will try just for fun. I make a game out of adjusting the jack plate and trimming the engine to get 3 MPG. While at cruise I bring the engine up until it slips then back it down. Or I watch my GPH and increase/decrease speed until I get my speed 3X my consumption. usually when loaded for a day's fishing trip this speed happens at 30 MPH and 4200 RPM.
30 MPH at 4200 is also amazing. At 4200 rpm I'm at 23MPH running twins
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What?s your top speed with your twins Grady?
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Rbob, have you tried your boarding ladder yet? I need something better than the rope one I have (it's not safe in a man-overboard scenario when it's stowed), and still looking for a minimal solution. Curious what you bought to mount that (they have additional brackets, not sure if I need one or not, they are an extra $50) and if it's actually ok to get in and out of the water with, since your swim step is about the same height as my swim step. Thanks!
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I have a whitecap invisible negative transom ladder which I can not find a way to mount on my boat, will give it to you if you can make it work on your boat. Clever design, but just won't work for me
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Json,
The boarding ladder just bolts to the setback bracket. Its sturdy and easy to use. Its easy to climb up from the shop floor.
On edit, have to drill 2 holes, available for port or starboard mount.
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Great info, thanks Rbob! Lindy, I sent you a DM...
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Json,
The boarding ladder just bolts to the setback bracket. Its sturdy and easy to use. Its easy to climb up from the shop floor.
On edit, have to drill 2 holes, available for port or starboard mount.
Thats a great deal! It looks like you drill a hole in the transom and slide it in.
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Thats a great deal! It looks like you drill a hole in the transom and slide it in.
Ya, really sweet looking ladder if I can make it work. I am gonna try, I think I have the right spot for it...
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I took a video of winching the boat onto the trailer today, it took 30 seconds which is pretty amazing. I used my "anchor buddy" bungee to take care of aligning the boat while I hooked up the winch strap.
https://youtu.be/NfqgIKJe1Ak?si=0eekI5_74eslQ5gi (https://youtu.be/NfqgIKJe1Ak?si=0eekI5_74eslQ5gi)
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Dang! You almost don't even need to get your trailer wet. :) That thing is pretty sweet, definitely looks easier than hand cranking for sure.
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I took a video of winching the boat onto the trailer today, it took 30 seconds which is pretty amazing. I used my "anchor buddy" bungee to take care of aligning the boat while I hooked up the winch strap.
https://youtu.be/NfqgIKJe1Ak?si=0eekI5_74eslQ5gi (https://youtu.be/NfqgIKJe1Ak?si=0eekI5_74eslQ5gi)
Wow! I like that. How did you get the rope hook onto the boat?
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I took a video of winching the boat onto the trailer today, it took 30 seconds which is pretty amazing. I used my "anchor buddy" bungee to take care of aligning the boat while I hooked up the winch strap.
https://youtu.be/NfqgIKJe1Ak?si=0eekI5_74eslQ5gi (https://youtu.be/NfqgIKJe1Ak?si=0eekI5_74eslQ5gi)
Wow! I like that. How did you get the rope hook onto the boat?
cj8mule,
The anchor buddy has a carabiner that I clipped onto the upper bow eye.
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I sure love mine. I?ve even used my remote while driving too. I?ve noticed the bow not properly nested while going down the road. Just a bump on the remote and it sucks it right up. It?s difficult to tell how much force is on the bow eye, so I release the tension on the winch while the boat is at home
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Interesting! I've always strongly preferred to back my trailer into the water and float the boat up to the bow roller. Seems like the dry friction of the bunks on the bottom paint or graphite will wear the finish down. Just seems like a recipe for more bottom paint maintenance. Any observations about that?
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Interesting! I've always strongly preferred to back my trailer into the water and float the boat up to the bow roller. Seems like the dry friction of the bunks on the bottom paint or graphite will wear the finish down. Just seems like a recipe for more bottom paint maintenance. Any observations about that?
Agree ... but that gets tough on a shallow ramp or beach launchings
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When I winch on I usually have the fronts of the trailer fenders(we have same trailers) about 8-12? submerged. I more or less use the winch to guide the boat forward as it floats. I then back up as needed and winch again. Usually have to adjust once on flat ground. No more wet feet or need to change boots. The shoulder muscles appreciate it too
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I could back in deeper, maybe a little but no adjustment is necessary as it loads perfect every time. As far as wear, not much friction on these bunks but you can see slight rub marks but does not seem to remove material. I suspect that 100 launches per year for 5 years I would probably recoat the graphite/epoxy at some point anyway, time will tell. Honestly, I am more worried about beach landings causing wear on the epoxy.
The anchor buddy bungee pulls the boat perfectly into position, its the first time I tried it and leaving just enough bunks exposed for the boat to find center on its own and a little help at the aft of the boat was the easiest retrieval I have done on any boat.
BTW, per Brian's advice I give the bunks a light spray with silicone before retrieving.
My aluminum boat has a roller trailer and when I winched it on with trailer too deep the boat was never centered so I started not putting the trailer in not so deep and like magic it was always centered. Thats the reason I do it that way now.
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Good point about the boat not centering if the trailer is in too deep. I'll try backing in a bit less this summer and see how that works.
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Yeah ... if you're in a tad too deep, boats love to drift off to one side while you pull out and 'land' the boat on the bunks ... crooked every time!
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Dan, do you have 2 sets of bunks on your trailer? My experience is just like Bob?s. No matter what trailer depth, centers perfect every time. As far as I know, myself, Bob, and Chuck all have the same trailer.
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Todd I'm quite positive the Kokopelli trailers have just a single set of bunks. That's what I recall of mine. It's rare that I have a problem centering the boat, but it does happen.
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The bow roller is a hard rubber and was causing paint damage so I added a stainless steel protector. I ordered flat ones and did my best to form fit with some wood and a bfh. There is a little gap so i added some butyl.
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I did the same thing, only yours is prettier. 2nd haul and mine was scuffed up. I like yours better
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Todd,
I just hope it stays on, not to confident about the adhesive that was used. If it comes off I will get one with the red 3m vhb tape.
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I had a small amount of sideways movement on one side as mine was 2 pieces. I just put a couple screws in it and some 5200. BTW hammer forming is really cool. Ive always wanted to try making something
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"Ive always wanted to try making something"
Making a boat counts!!
BTW This is the first time I have hammer formed, crude but worked out. One big smack with a 3lb hammer did it. Making the form the right width and routing the edges. In hindsight I would have made the driven block longer instead of holding another block on a smaller block, Does that make sense?
Need to get fishing and stop wishing.
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Yes, I see what you mean about the block. Have you seen "japhands make it custom" on YouTube? I'm not in the industry, but I think this kid is really talented and does also do some really cool hammer forming. I have a pretty short attention span and have started into knife making. I'm nearly finished with building a 2 x 72 belt grinder.
Yup, I made a boat. It's a blast, I love being on the water in it. It has exceeded my expectations all around. Are you done with all the shake down stuff yet?
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It looks and sounds like maybe leaving the UHMW (or wood) strip off the bow just above the lower bow eye ... easier to fit a bow protector onto the bow. Maybe would even open up some commercially-made products that are designed for a simple V-shape bow.
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Shake down run, I need one more run to be sure, just been busy on house remodel so my priorities are messed up right now. I watched japhands, that is an amazing skill, they make it look easy.
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Shake down run, I need one more run to be sure, just been busy on house remodel so my priorities are messed up right now. I watched japhands, that is an amazing skill, they make it look easy.
Puget Sound?
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Yes, Puget Sound. I launch out of Zittel's Marina on Johnson Point. I am 5 minutes from there. I loved it when we could crab here.
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It looks and sounds like maybe leaving the UHMW (or wood) strip off the bow just above the lower bow eye ... easier to fit a bow protector onto the bow. Maybe would even open up some commercially-made products that are designed for a simple V-shape bow.
I don?t remember this in the plans, but without the piece
You refer to sure made my job easier. I added a pic in my post above
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It looks and sounds like maybe leaving the UHMW (or wood) strip off the bow just above the lower bow eye ... easier to fit a bow protector onto the bow. Maybe would even open up some commercially-made products that are designed for a simple V-shape bow.
I don?t remember this in the plans, but without the piece
You refer to sure made my job easier. I added a pic in my post above
You're right. The plans mention leaving the strip off in the area around the bow eyes, but not an area for a bow guard. Basically, the area that you leave off for the lower bow eye would just be extended upward to make room for the guard. I'll add it to my notes for the plans update that I'm working on ...