Author Topic: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build  (Read 224694 times)

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Brian.Dixon

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Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
« Reply #135 on: October 02, 2016, 04:01:59 PM »
Been reading the manual again, I cant find when to glass the exterior transom and if you use biaxial.

You're right ...I don't see that either!  (sorry)

Use plain woven fiberglass cloth throughout.  The  manual tells you what weights (I'd go 10 oz on the bottom, 6 to 10 oz on the sides and transom, your choice).  The order of glassing is as follows:

1. Glass the side panels, allowing glass to overlap onto (or even past) the chine (or clear past the chine flat onto the bottom panels ...it all works).  When cured, trim along the edge of the side panels (a sander w/80-grit held at an angle works great).  With a carbide scraper, scrape off any irregularities in the cloth (bumps, threads of glass, points etc) and along the edges of the glass where it overlapped onto other parts of the boat, e.g. overlap onto the opposite side panels at the bow, chines/chine flats/bottom panels (depending on how wide your glass was), and transom.  Then with a straight-edge trowel, use epoxy thickened with fairing compound to fill in / taper the edges of the glass to the hull.  Repeat for the other side of the boat.

2. Using a similar approach, glass the bottom panels, preferably allowing the glass to overlap onto the sides and past the keel a few inches.  If your glass isn't wide enough, then make sure you at least allow it to overlap past the  chines and onto the side panels a few inches.  If there is a gap between port and starboard glass along the keel, e.g. a long football shape gap, cut out fiberglass cloth to cover the gap, allowing it to overlap he perimeter of the gap a few inches all the way around (fair in the first glass before you apply the patch, then fair in the patch after it's cured).

3. Finally, glass the transom in a similar manner, allowing the glass to overlap onto the sides and bottom of the boat.

When you're done, the entire outside of the hull will be sheathed in glass, all edges trimmed and faired-in as best you can.  Note that you'll have to cut slices into the glass at corners to allow first one side, then the other, to overlap and be epoxied in place.  Remember my hint of making such slices slightly off from the  actual point of the corner and not slicing clear onto the corner ...stop short.  This will allow glass to stretch over the corner and protect it.

You'll be coating the boat (fill coats) with epoxy next, keeping in mind your future painting and possibly our graphite-epoxy coating on the bottom, so pay attention to the fairing... better early than late if you want to minimize work and time.  You'll fair again prior to painting, to fill hollows etc (long-board sanding), but the fairing that you do along edges and corners and seams/overlaps now will go a long way to help you get a nice finish on the boat later on ...with minimum effort (who wants extra work?  Especially if it's sanding, fairing and filling, repeat?).

Not sure if I mentioned it in the manual, but note that you'll likely want to glass the top of the transom, using wide glass tape (8 to 12 inches wide), letting the glass overlap the transom inside and out... nice to have bang protection along that top edge.  For that, I'd use 10-oz plain woven glass.

Brian

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Rbob

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Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
« Reply #136 on: October 02, 2016, 11:06:20 PM »
Thank you again, seems to be going at a snails pace.  I made the 3/4:" wide flat on the bow and rounded the chine seams and a full day of sanding , filling holes etc on Saturday. Today I faired the bow some more. I set up the laser and seems I screwed one side of the bow in a little more, so more sanding and got it looking good.  I finished the keel seam with 3 layers of glass, added fillet on front chine and put glass 2 layers on the chine seams (stern) and one 8" wide on the front part. Looked up, 9:00... dangit I wanted to get the seams done this weekend.

Called it a night.  I can scrape a little tomorrow night and put the final cloth on the chine seams.  Back to work tomorrow so I can rest up for tomorrow night.

I need to retire so I can work on my boat more.     

Brian.Dixon

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Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
« Reply #137 on: October 03, 2016, 08:18:46 AM »
Sounds like you got a LOT done to me!  I tend to mentally form to-do lists that I want to get done on a particular day, then make it about halfway through the list ... always.  I get a lot done, but I think I suffer from always expecting to be able to get more done than is feasible... so it goes, especially with boat building.

bd

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Rbob

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Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
« Reply #138 on: October 03, 2016, 02:15:38 PM »
So if I scrape the irregularities of the chine seam and fill with micro-baloon fairing compound and do a nice job with troweling it on, can I apply the glass without sanding the fairing compound? 

Like the fillets, let it firm up good and go for it?


Brian.Dixon

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Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
« Reply #139 on: October 04, 2016, 08:13:48 AM »
When I scrape off the irregularities, I go at it fairly assertively, but also make sure I do not accidentally dig into the fiberglass cloth too.  A carbide scraper is also the very best tool at removing drips and runs ...sanding is NOT.

After doing a good job with the fairing compound, I do indeed sand it.  It'll never be perfect, so sanding will help smooth things out.  You can sand as soon as it's cured enough to not ball up on the sandpaper, e.g. make little hard spots on the sandpaper.  It doesn't hurt it to sand too soon, but those little hard spots of fairing compound on the sandpaper make the sand paper less effective.  If you see those forming, just give it another day... go work on something else for a bit.  Sometimes, if it all looks pretty perfect as-is without having to sand it, I do sand anyway... but often just a hand sanding with 80-grit.

If your epoxy forms any kind of a blush, do also make sure that you wash down the hull with ammonia water before sanding.  I just mix up a 5-gal bucket of water w/ammonia and use an old hand towel like a wash cloth to liberally wipe down the hull before sanding ...and a quick wipe after sanding, right before coating again.

Brian
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Cannon

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Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
« Reply #140 on: October 05, 2016, 02:08:41 PM »
I used a card scraper for the fine tuning prior to glassing. Worked well! Best though if you do wet on wet whenever you can.
Remember, the ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic was built by professionals.
Started building Paula J the 2nd Week of June 2015, finished her the second week of July 2016.

Brian.Dixon

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Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
« Reply #141 on: October 05, 2016, 06:49:24 PM »
I used a card scraper for the fine tuning prior to glassing. Worked well! Best though if you do wet on wet whenever you can.

Is that one of those scrapers that looks like a square of sheet metal ...you give it a slight bend and pull it along?  I think I saw a guy on TV scraping (like fine planing) the top of a cabinet that he'd made with one of those.  Never seen or tried one myself....

Brian

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Rbob

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Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
« Reply #142 on: October 06, 2016, 08:13:06 AM »
Card scrapers work, just like the carbide scraper.  The sewn edge on the cloth leaves quite a ridge and my wet on wet of biaxial left areas along that edge with bubbles which I opened up with a knife and filled with fairing compound. Maybe not doing it quite right. 

Worked till 1:00 am Monday night and threw my clothes in the wash and left my cell phone in my pocket.... son of a bitch probably a $600-700 mistake.. and no backup of my photos or data so another lesson there.  Its an I-phone.

Sanded the fairing compound on one side last night will do the other side tonight. My original plan was to put on another layer of glass every night to avoid all the sanding which did not happen so grinding it out as they say.


Rbob

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Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
« Reply #143 on: October 06, 2016, 10:25:33 AM »
Sanding lightly with 80 grit on the epoxied cloth by hand, hope that's good enough, did not want to use a d/a and tear up the glass.

I stopped the chine glass at the transom, did not wrap it onto the transom.

When I tape the transom exterior there will be 60oz of glass on this chine end unless I am supposed to stagger the glass somehow.


Brian.Dixon

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Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
« Reply #144 on: October 06, 2016, 02:50:57 PM »
Card scrapers work, just like the carbide scraper.  The sewn edge on the cloth leaves quite a ridge and my wet on wet of biaxial left areas along that edge with bubbles which I opened up with a knife and filled with fairing compound. Maybe not doing it quite right. 

Worked till 1:00 am Monday night and threw my clothes in the wash and left my cell phone in my pocket.... son of a bitch probably a $600-700 mistake.. and no backup of my photos or data so another lesson there.  Its an I-phone.

Sanded the fairing compound on one side last night will do the other side tonight. My original plan was to put on another layer of glass every night to avoid all the sanding which did not happen so grinding it out as they say.

Your phone might still be OK if you had a Samsung S7 like mine... It's waterproof to 2 meters and shock resistant (and so is the case it's in - shock resistant that is).  This is WHY I went for this particular phone.  It's more "outdoorsman ready" than any other that I looked at.

Brian

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Brian.Dixon

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Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
« Reply #145 on: October 06, 2016, 02:52:34 PM »
Sanding lightly with 80 grit on the epoxied cloth by hand, hope that's good enough, did not want to use a d/a and tear up the glass.

I stopped the chine glass at the transom, did not wrap it onto the transom.

When I tape the transom exterior there will be 60oz of glass on this chine end unless I am supposed to stagger the glass somehow.

Good ...no need to wrap chine tape (glass) onto the transom.

bd

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Rbob

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Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
« Reply #146 on: October 11, 2016, 11:57:40 AM »
I glassed the front chine's with 8" x 10oz cloth and 12" x 12oz biax.  I now know why you should put the cloth on top of the biax!  It worked good though no extra seams to fair on the chine flats and I used Tape & Drape to catch the epoxy runs which really sucked having to scrape them off when I did the rear chine's, still pissed over that.

I scraped the edges between glassing sessions and scraped the biax and applied a thin coat of fairing compound.   

I had problems with wet on wet glass getting void's along the edge of the glass so I decided to slow down a bit more and do one at a time.
 

Rbob

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Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
« Reply #147 on: October 11, 2016, 11:58:43 AM »
More pics:

I used full length glass from previous chine glass, rolled it up on tubes after wetout and rolled it out, the cloth was easy I was able to pull on the glass hard enough to remove wrinkles from the front after about half of it was on.  The biax was more difficult to bend but I just ran it a little higher to help make the bend and trimmed it off at the blue tape.


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Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
« Reply #148 on: October 11, 2016, 12:05:19 PM »
Just need to figure out the transom extension so I can finish taping the transom.

Rbob

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Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
« Reply #149 on: October 11, 2016, 01:54:56 PM »
I may have to install risers on the stringers, the extended platform and the rear bulkhead while upside down so I can finish taping the transom.
 
I just don't see any other way.

I have 2 questions, should I use 1/2" or 3/4" for the rear bulkhead?  and should I extend the rear bulkhead down to the fairbody or just stop it at the sole?