Glacier Boats of Alaska - Builder's Forums
Great Alaskan and Boat Building => General Discussion about the Great Alaskan => Topic started by: Todd j on December 31, 2018, 12:36:51 PM
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So. I think there are a couple ways to go about this.
What is the simplest way to accomplish this?
It seems raising the temp framing that the stringers sit on is the simplest way. That means your not committed to bulkhead locations if you desire different deck elevations in different parts of the boat.
I’m seeing a longer bow stem and less flare since the shelves and chines stay the same. Which will require a slight rework of the transom.
I’m thinking 4 inches btw. I’d like to keep the wheelhouse at the prescribe height, without change in elevation from cockpit to wheelhouse. Anyone do just this?
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I did both, raised the deck 3 1/2 inches (nominal 2x4) and raised the sides the same. All you need to do is raise the stringer support 3 1/2 inches.
Because you raise the deck, you either want to raise or drop the splash rail. The reason for that is because depending upon loading; fuel, people, gear Etc. you might want to add fwd scuppers (which I wish I had). I didn’t do that one simple step so in order to add fwd scuppers I have to go right through the center of the splash rail on the fwd scuppers...😢
My wheelhouse is about six inches taller than the callout. I’m 6’4” and not in favor of banging my head. The proportions look normal, and I would do it the same again!
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Ya, good point. I think I will slope the deck toward the transom. Maybe 4” on the framing, but actually add a wedge that is 5” aft the wheelhouse bulkhead. With a 1 1/2” taper. Then 4” inside the wheelhouse. I’m sure the 1” difference over the bulkhead will not be noticed.
I’m hoping it won’t look silly if I don’t add to the height of the wheelhouse.
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I know it’s not much, but I cut the 4 bottom panel molds today. Set them aside for now. My plywood order won’t be in until Friday, so maybe I will get the lvl framing on Wednesday for the jig and stringers. I bought a new 7 1/4” mag skillsaw. It sure is nice, it’s much lighter than my 25 year old stand by. The old saw sounds better, still.
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Todd,
Raising the floor? I made the stringers 4" taller, left the supports as is. More than one way to skin a cat!
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I thought about that too. The hang up for me was the amount of deck to roof clearance that would be gained in the cuddy by not raising the sole inside it. It would be super cool if there was a way to measure off of the stringer offsets to locate bulkheads ahead of time.
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Lofted and cut the stringers today. That starboard stringer was a rascal compared to the port side. They are 25’ long so there’s some room to play there. I have decided to build to 27 feet, maybe 27 1/2’ tops. I just will not allow myself to build so long I cannot walk freely around one end or the other. I can already see shop space dwindling.
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Ya, good point. I think I will slope the deck toward the transom. Maybe 4” on the framing, but actually add a wedge that is 5” aft the wheelhouse bulkhead. With a 1 1/2” taper. Then 4” inside the wheelhouse. I’m sure the 1” difference over the bulkhead will not be noticed.
I’m hoping it won’t look silly if I don’t add to the height of the wheelhouse.
Personally, I like the look of higher sides and a more hidden wheelhouse... very classic. Definitely better than looking top-heavy.
Brian
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I finished fairing the stringers last night. It was easy and enjoyable. I really like my new 7 1/4” mag skillsaw. I tucked the stringers away port and starboard against the walls and buried them with more boat parts!
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I built the jig today while I was bored waiting to go pick up my plywood. I got to within 1/16” measuring across the diagonals. I bought lvl long enough to build to 28’ and 4 of them. That way I could choose the best ones for the stringers. Glad I did. The lvl on jig were a freakin pita! I had a gnarly bow in one of them that was a real bastard to work out. I used a 10’ 2x4 with about 3/4” crown and lagged it to the side of the jig to straighten it out. Then I put a plywood brace to a transverse mounted 2x6. Screwed the crap out of it! It’s now strait +- the laser line. Gotta be good enough. Hoping all the extra crap I added won’t be in the way and can just stay put for the rest if the build. Pic taken before the jig was straightened
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Question?
Let’s say I add 4” to the framing that supports The stringers. I want to loft and cut the transom now. Do I simply add 4” to the 43 15/16” number and connect the dots?
Here the edge of the level represents the flare if lofted to plans dimensions. My pencil is the flare that I ended up with by raising the sole and keeping the same sole to shear as designed.
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Question?
Let’s say I add 4” to the framing that supports The stringers. I want to loft and cut the transom now. Do I simply add 4” to the 43 15/16” number and connect the dots?
Yup ... loft it the same way, but look at the drawing and imagine the bottom panels/chine flats moving 4" further from the top of the transom. Connect the dots between the junction of the chine flat and side and the top outside corner of the transom. NOTE: The motor cut-out will be deeper versus the top of the transom so that the shaft length of 25" (XL Shaft) will still work ... the cut-out is measured from the bottom of the transom, not the top. I'm sure you spotted that, but who knows who else is reading this? :) Also NOTE that the outer ends of the motor boards and the outer edge of the upper transom doublers (either side of the cut-out) will change since raising the bottom panels (upside down boat) without making the boat wider will slightly reduce the side flare. It's a tiny change though and you can just use the outer edges/sides of the transom as a template on the pieces to draw a cut line. It'll all be buried in a strong epoxy/glass seam regardless, so don't sweat it too much - just make sure the slot for the shelves are cut in the right spot. You'll add your 4" to the 17-13/16" measurement shown on the doublers (drawing 008a) to locate these slots ... cut'm a little loose and the devil be damned. It'll go together just fine.
Brian
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I am building to 27.5’. I will be building the 4" taller transom similar to what is in the plans at this point. I guess I can always cut it off if I decide to go with the bracket look like Rbob is doing. I have seen some pretty sexy splash wells on tolman skiffs. Will worry about swim platform later.
Brian, let's say for instance I max out the transom weight rating with horsepower. I construct/install some variation of a swim platform. If I go diving and crawl back into the boat over the transom using the swim platform. Will the transom rip off the boat motors and all. Consider I weigh between 220 and 240 depending on what time it is. My soaking wet dive gear likely adds another 100 pounds. Now the transom is overloaded by 340 pounds plus the weight of the swim deck.
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I am building to 27.5’. I will be building the 4" taller transom similar to what is in the plans at this point. I guess I can always cut it off if I decide to go with the bracket look like Rbob is doing. I have seen some pretty sexy splash wells on tolman skiffs. Will worry about swim platform later.
Brian, let's say for instance I max out the transom weight rating with horsepower. I construct/install some variation of a swim platform. If I go diving and crawl back into the boat over the transom using the swim platform. Will the transom rip off the boat motors and all. Consider I weigh between 220 and 240 depending on what time it is. My soaking wet dive gear likely adds another 100 pounds. Now the transom is overloaded by 340 pounds plus the weight of the swim deck.
Haha ... you weigh less than me!
First, no, you will not rip off the transom. Impact loads on the transom during normal operation exceed that by a long shot - no worries.
That said, my suggested build style for divers is to extend the stringers past the transom far enough to provide a swim platform, and extend the bottom panels and chine flats as well. This effectively lengthens the boat and puts the motor 'on a bracket' (of sorts). The way to lengthen the boat is to space out the lofting stations (equally) from the amidships point aft - check the manuals and study how the loftings change between the base 26' model versus those that are longer (noting that the same thing is done in reverse for shorter than 26 feet). In a nutshell, you divide the extra length by the number of gaps between equally spaced stations, then increase each station separation by that amount. The manuals will illustrate this better than this post.
The reason I like the method above is because it naturally provides flotation for motor and/or weight (you) climbing onto the swim platform. Since the boat is becoming effectively longer as well, this also mediates the aft movement of the CG due to the motors (and you) being behind the transom. This method has already been used on a few Great Alaskans and it works very well.
In your case, you'd effectively lengthen the boat from 27.5 ft to say ... 29 or 29.5 ft long on the water. K. Cannon in Oregon has a 29' 4" GA that already proves this length works well.
Brian
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I need to decide which way to I guess. Fortunately I have a long way to go before I make a decision. I made about 20 gallons of sawdust today. Scarfed all the bottom panels minus the last 2 3/8” scarfs. I can’t image doing that job with a hand plane. I used my power planer and it was still a job.
Back to the salt mine for a week!
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I need to decide which way to I guess. Fortunately I have a long way to go before I make a decision. I made about 20 gallons of sawdust today. Scarfed all the bottom panels minus the last 2 3/8” scarfs. I can’t image doing that job with a hand plane. I used my power planer and it was still a job.
A k to the salt mine for a week!
God bless power hand planers! I love mine ... it's a Bosch :)
Brian
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I’m still amazed that my shop space looks like it does. For those new to my project I’m building my boat in here. This pic was from November/December 2017
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I finished building all the transom parts today. There’s actually a lot more work there than I anticipated. I also finished the last of the bottom panel scarfs. Things are progressing nicely. Tomorrow it’s chines or shear shelves.
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Were those boards right on the ground? THey look pretty warpy ... You should post the AFTER picture in this thread too .... you did a TON of work on that shop!
Brian
Here ... I dug one up:
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One corner was all swallowed up! The extra low warpy corner was 11 inches lower than the corner with the sliding barn door that you reposted from the other thread. I raised it 6 inches before the building started to shift. It’s still low, just not really noticeable. As i said in the house for a GA thread. Not perfect, but perfectly functional!
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You added a lot of long-term life to that shop - what you did was the perfect medicine. The concrete floor is a huge improvement, as is the elimination of support posts in the middle of the shop by switching to trusses.
Brian
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I lofted the shear shelf templates yesterday. I learned 2 things. 2 doorskins are not big enough. I added a third partial skin I had left over from another project. Second, I was so excited to scarf plywood that I scarfed The 5th sheet. I only needed 4 for the bottom panels. So I think I can fix that by swapping layer 1 and layer 2. Looks like the stagger for the shelf blanks is about 6” or more. So layer 2 will become 3/4” and layer 1 will become 3/8”. There are no consequences down the road that I can think of, is there? I also wish I would have ripped the bottom panels first. Now I have to work with 7’ plywood panels for the chines. I need to Think ahead dammit!
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I finished the template for the shelves. I ended up gluing a small strip of doorskin to the 3 pieces at the joints and let it sit til next weekend. They turned out great. I used my block plane to plane right to the pencil line. Cut just a hair wide and worked to line. Only added a few minutes work, but it was worth it.
What is the reason for the lofting to come in(narrow at the transom) on the full size lofting? Without this sheet as reference does this just work itself out when you place the shelves in the molds? I feel like I’m missing something.
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I finished the template for the shelves. I ended up gluing a small strip of doorskin to the 3 pieces at the joints and let it sit til next weekend. They turned out great. I used my block plane to plane right to the pencil line. Cut just a hair wide and worked to line. Only added a few minutes work, but it was worth it.
What is the reason for the lofting to come in(narrow at the transom) on the full size lofting? Without this sheet as reference does this just work itself out when you place the shelves in the molds? I feel like I’m missing something.
1. If I understand right on the 1st post above, one side will have the sheer shelf layers in opposite order ... that's fine as long as the final thickness of everything is as designed.
2. The boat is narrower at the stern than it is at amidships. It doesn't matter if you use Sheet 002c or Sheet 002c-alt to create the sheer shelves. If you use the 002 version, the angle where the aft straight section (the A/B line) will result in the boat's width being narrower at the stern. This isn't obvious in Sheet 002c because loftings are only shown up to 168" from the bow. In Sheet 002c-alt, the full-size lofting, loftings are provided right to the stern so you can readily see that stern is narrower... but note that the wood from the 168" line to the stern is still a straight run, just like in Sheet 002c. The results are the same regardless, that the boat is wider at amidships, narrower at the stern. The molds are correct for carrying the shelves in the right place - Look at shelf molds #1, #2, and #3 in Sheet 010c ... notice how the width gets narrower as you go towards the stern.
The bottom line: Yes, it all works out in the end! ;D The stern end ... haha, pardon the pun :)
Brian
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I lofted and cut the chine flats this weekend. It was more time consuming than I anticipated. I learned that the jigsaw is most hated tool encountered so far. I should be sticking parts together within the next couple weeks as glass and epoxy orders trickle in.
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Lookin' great!
Jigsaw? Hated? Ha! It's the most-used tool in the stack (or maybe a 5" random orbital sander). I love my jigsaw (a Bosch). You learn pretty quick how to follow a line, apply side pressure to the blade towards the outside of a cut so the blade doesn't torque around etc ... doesn't take long. Keep in mind that close enough is good enough too ... epoxy fills gaps.
Brian
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I can’t cut a straight line longer than a inch. I used my block plane a lot to shape the inside curves. Maybe I need to upgrade the old jigsaw. I think after 30 years of bending nails and pulling wrenches I am seeing the early signs of carpal tunnel. Makes the hand work more difficult and I get tired quicker than i use to.
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Nice scarfs Todd what technique did you use?
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I can’t cut a straight line longer than a inch. I used my block plane a lot to shape the inside curves. Maybe I need to upgrade the old jigsaw. I think after 30 years of bending nails and pulling wrenches I am seeing the early signs of carpal tunnel. Makes the hand work more difficult and I get tired quicker than i use to.
Go slower ... go straighter! Or like you said, cut your wiggly line outside the marked line then plane down to the marked line.... old carpenter's trick. But really, if you can cut within 1/8", or even 3/16" of the line, it's close enough ... just put the boat together and let epoxy fill the wiggles. It's stronger that way anyway. Just eyeball the various curves before locking them in with epoxy, and if they look fair ... then good. The boat won't care!
Brian
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Power hand plane used for scarfs. Fast and easy! I then test fit and hand plane if needed.
I'm trying to cut out parts that fit and match. Still far from furniture joints
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I am enjoying your posts. Thank you for posting, keep it up please.
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I can’t cut a straight line longer than a inch. I used my block plane a lot to shape the inside curves. Maybe I need to upgrade the old jigsaw. I think after 30 years of bending nails and pulling wrenches I am seeing the early signs of carpal tunnel. Makes the hand work more difficult and I get tired quicker than i use to.
Try making your long curves with a skilsaw. You will get smooth consistent curves. A jig saw makes inconsistent curves which require cleaning up with a plane. Don’t plunge cut the curves like you do when cutting your stringers, but rat he still the saw deep enough so it will fully penetrate.
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My go to dust maker is my 7 1/4” mag skilsaw. I have used so far for everything except the inside curve of the chines, and inside bottom corners of transom.
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Glued the chine flats, one bottom panel scarf, and 1 forward section of of shelf blanks. I learned I would much rather layout and make cut pieces than mix and sling epoxy. I’m not good at waiting for stuff to set up and dry. Anyway
What is the harm in laminating the transom parts and glassing it after assembly?
I already routed the splash well notch into the motor board. How do I deal with glassing it?
How thick should a creamy mixture of silica thickened epoxy be? Is this another one of those. CLose is close enough deals again?
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Glued the chine flats, one bottom panel scarf, and 1 forward section of of shelf blanks. I learned I would much rather layout and make cut pieces than mix and sling epoxy. I’m not good at waiting for stuff to set up and dry. Anyway
What is the harm in laminating the transom parts and glassing it after assembly?
I already routed the splash well notch into the motor board. How do I deal with glassing it?
How thick should a creamy mixture of silica thickened epoxy be? Is this another one of those. CLose is close enough deals again?
I know how you feel ... building a boat is like being in the military. Hurry up and wait!
There's nothing wrong with glassing the transom after it's been made. As far as the splash well notch goes, you can glass right over it like it's not there, then after the epoxy greens up a bit, use a razor blade to slice along the top and bottom of the slot to remove the strip of glass that spans over it.
Creamy? Like the consistency of stirred yogurt or a tiny bit thinner ... not runny like unthickened epoxy, and not so thick that it'll stand on it's own. When gluing large surfaces together, you want the epoxy to both flow and be gap-filling when you press the two pieces together. And .... close is close enough! :)
Brian
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Man, it seems like the better the Economy seems, the crappier service gets. My epoxy was lost for 5 days in a whse in Atlanta. Then that carrier passed it off to a local carrier that never delivered it. After kicking rocks all day I called them to find they did deliver it, with a signature. Just so happens it wasn’t me who signed, and they didn’t deliver it to the address on the bill of lading. Now for whatever reason I can’t get ahold of my fiberglass supplier. No one answers the phone and email can take days and I’m too dumb to find what I need on thier website. End of rant
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Man, it seems like the better the Economy seems, the crappier service gets. My epoxy was lost for 5 days in a whse in Atlanta. Then that carrier passed it off to a local carrier that never delivered it. After kicking rocks all day I called them to find they did deliver it, with a signature. Just so happens it wasn’t me who signed, and they didn’t deliver it to the address on the bill of lading. Now for whatever reason I can’t get ahold of my fiberglass supplier. No one answers the phone and email can take days and I’m too dumb to find what I need on thier website. End of rant
What brand epoxy, what dealer, what delivery services? Might help someone else to know.... sux, guy. Sorry to hear about all the hassles.... that's definitely not normal.
Brian
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It bought ebond. They use r and l carriers. The local carrier I already forgot about. Fiberglass supply is who I am buying the glass and fillers from. Barry at ebond seems to be the go to guy. He is not who I initially dealt with, but I ultimately did get ahold of him for some technical q and a stuff that the original sales guy couldn’t help with. I would say don’t deal with anyone except Barry. He was also name dropped on the other forum.
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It bought ebond. They use r and l carriers. The local carrier I already forgot about. Fiberglass supply is who I am buying the glass and fillers from. Barry at ebond seems to be the go to guy. He is not who I initially dealt with, but I ultimately did get ahold of him for some technical q and a stuff that the original sales guy couldn’t help with. I would say don’t deal with anyone except Barry. He was also name dropped on the other forum.
Good to know. I've heard Barry's name elsewhere as well....
Brian
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Got the chine flats put up tonight. They turned out fine. I tried to see how strong a bottom panel scarf was after 5 days on the scarfing table. Not a strong as I wanted it to be!
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Several points ... first, the glass that'll be on either side of the joint has very high tensile strength that would prevent such a breakage, so not to worry.
Second, it's hard to judge the situation from my perspective. For example, tests that I've done (and others have done) have failed to break the joint and breaks occurred on either side of the joint instead. So why did yours break in the joint itself? Dunno ... the possibilities are many. Dust, sanded instead of planed scarfing (sanding seals wood cells, cutting leaves them open to wick epoxy into them). Was each surface of the joint precoated carefully, repeatedly (brush) until the whole joint remained wet looking after letting it sit for 10 minutes? This guarantees that the epoxy has wicked into the wood cells as far as it'll go. Was the joint then filled with thickened epoxy right away or after the epoxy that you used to saturate the joint has cured? Right away is best. How thick was the thickened epoxy? It needs to be soft enough to flow well inside the joint as it's pressed together, thereby acting as a gap-filling mix. If the epoxy is too thick (too dry) and combined with not enough saturation of the wood cells prior to assembly, then it's possible that the wood itself drew epoxy out of the joint, leaving a too-dry mixture behind - which will be weaker. Was the joint pressed together hard enough to squeeze all the epoxy out of some areas? And for full strength, the epoxy should be kept warm (room temperature) and allowed to cure for at least a week before testing. Hard to say. I prefer to use a plane to cut scarf joint (no sanding), vacuum the dust out of each face of the joint, saturate very well before gluing, use a soft silica/wood flour mix for the gluing, and I want to see squeeze-out around the whole joint, but leave it loose enough that you know you're not squeezing all the epoxy out. I avoid stressing the joint at all until it's been glassed.
To fix a busted joint, scrape and/or sand to remove all lumpy epoxy remains until the glue faces are smooth again, then plane off a little more to open up the wood cells, vacuum well, then saturate and glue as described. Don't stress the joint until well cured and handle it gently until you can get some glass on it. If no time to glass the whole thing, then just glass a 12" to 18" long strip of glass tape over the joint on each side and that'll reinforce it until you finish glassing later.
Hope that helps :)
Brian
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For informational purposes: The epoxy was still very far from cured. I used my scraper and scraped it back down to bare wood in about a half hour. The end of the scarf that looks completely epoxy starved was not part of the joint as that panel is wider the the other.
some Things I’m gonna do different this time. Use foam roller instead of chip brush to wet scarf. I like the way the foam roller puts down a consistent coat without over doing it. Easy to recoat as well. I can actually see the drier grain slurp up the epoxy. More squeeze out, will also move scarf to a reinforced part of table so I know it’s good and flat and has something solid under it. Vacuum all future epoxy parts.
One thing I cannot control is temperature. It cured as long as other parts just did t work. MAybe if I get in the shop today and keep the heat up for most of the next three days it will get a better start on curing. I also layed The shelf blanks lamination on top of the freshly glued scarf. It turned out just fine.
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What’s everyone using for cleaning sticky resin and hardener from tools?
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Todd, I have used alcohol in the past. Works best if you get on it while epoxy is wet.
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For informational purposes: The epoxy was still very far from cured. I used my scraper and scraped it back down to bare wood in about a half hour. The end of the scarf that looks completely epoxy starved was not part of the joint as that panel is wider the the other.
some Things I’m gonna do different this time. Use foam roller instead of chip brush to wet scarf. I like the way the foam roller puts down a consistent coat without over doing it. Easy to recoat as well. I can actually see the drier grain slurp up the epoxy. More squeeze out, will also move scarf to a reinforced part of table so I know it’s good and flat and has something solid under it. Vacuum all future epoxy parts.
One thing I cannot control is temperature. It cured as long as other parts just did t work. MAybe if I get in the shop today and keep the heat up for most of the next three days it will get a better start on curing. I also layed The shelf blanks lamination on top of the freshly glued scarf. It turned out just fine.
Sounds perfect. Put a couple of heat lamps on the joint for a couple of days....
Brian
(https://happymoneysaver.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/chicks3days-054.jpg)
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What’s everyone using for cleaning sticky resin and hardener from tools?
Acetone works best, but wear nitrile gloves rather than latex. Latex 'breathes' enough to let epoxy-laden acetone come through and soak into your skin. No need to develop a sensitivity to epoxy .. right? :D
Brian
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Are nitrile gloves good for all this boat stuff. Epoxy?
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I think so. I bought a box of 100 at HF.
I like the heat lamp idea. I may just look into that.
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Are nitrile gloves good for all this boat stuff. Epoxy?
Nitrile provides a solid barrier that doesn't let anything through, and solvents or epoxy doesn't harm it. Mechanics use them virtually everywhere. Buy the ones that are long and go at least 2 or 3 inches up your wrists. I find that you tend to get epoxy on your wrist if you just use the regular ones. If glassing or epoxying over wide surfaces (or hard to reach areas) that you might bump with your arm while reaching, get Tyvek sleeve guards - the ones that are like a tube and have elastic on both ends:
Tyvek Sleeves (https://www.amazon.com/Magid-SL20-EconoWear-Disposable-Sleeve/dp/B079YC7D6R/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1550322840&sr=8-6&keywords=tyvek+sleeves)
Long Cuff Nitrile Gloves (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00T57Q9PY/ref=sspa_dk_detail_0?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B00T57Q9PY&pd_rd_w=5Dr69&pf_rd_p=2bd81721-c115-4b8d-93a3-2ecd17466ded&pd_rd_wg=g9WyC&pf_rd_r=96BR5XRVBJCNDRSYAYG3&pd_rd_r=05c97678-31ed-11e9-bd42-5d0f89a094ac)
Brian
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I reglued the crappy scarf that I busted. I must have mixed the goop wrong Or something. After less than a 24 hr set I was handling it like it was cured for days. I wonder if I added resin to the resin and didn’t mix any hardener in. That would explain why it was still wet after 5 days. I glued 2 more scarfs for the bottom panels. One more, then I can glue the 3/8” panels to the 3/4” panels.
I did get a heat lamp, but I think I probably won’t need it too much.
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I reglued the crappy scarf that I busted. I must have mixed the goop wrong Or something. After less than a 24 hr set I was handling it like it was cured for days. I wonder if I added resin to the resin and didn’t mix any hardener in. That would explain why it was still wet after 5 days. I glued 2 more scarfs for the bottom panels. One more, then I can glue the 3/8” panels to the 3/4” panels.
I did get a heat lamp, but I think I probably won’t need it too much.
Mistakes happen, but with this kind of building, it's generally easy to fix them. No boat is ever built without something not quite going as planned.
Brian
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I glued some more scarfs. I forgot about the second layer of bottom panels, so those are done now. I’m. It sure how I’m gonna handle the bottom panel once they are scarfed together. Any tricks for such long pieces without help?
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I glued some more scarfs. I forgot about the second layer of bottom panels, so those are done now. I’m. It sure how I’m gonna handle the bottom panel once they are scarfed together. Any tricks for such long pieces without help?
Long, bulky, really heavy, unwieldy ... hard to handle ... yup! You're getting a BIG boat out of the deal! Personally, I've gotten bottom panels into the mold by myself by lifting end, middle, other end onto temporary supports and sliding into place. I know someone that use a chain hoist to pick up one end (panel on EDGE) and futzed it into place picking up the other end. Tricky no matter what. Easiest is to get a couple of friends and pick it up on edge, set down along the keel, then lay it off to the side that it goes on. Once the whole bottom panel assembly (including glassed one-side chine flats) is done, you can clamp or screw boards across it and lift with a block and tackle or friends to set it aside until it gets lifted into place on the stringers, transom, and bow stem. The good news is that you CAN do it all by yourself if you're careful and think things through. There have been several people that have built the boat entirely alone, using tripods or hoists or block and tackles to assist .... including flipping the hull in-place when the time came, and cranking the hull up onto a trailer. The friends route is fastest and easiest, but not required.
Brian
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I got the first full bottom panel glued up tonight. I’m planning on shooting a couple ling cod in the face tomorrow. My freezer is getting empty again. so I got some stuff done after work. Hopefully I can get that panel off the jig Sunday and glue the other one up before I go back to work. Might even tackle the transom.
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Looking good! Parts are getting BIGGER!
:D
Brian
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Took Friday off from the project. I did manage to shoot a 32inch Ling. I traded one of his fillets for 1 1/2 steelhead fillets. Coming down with what ever is in the wind. Didn't leave bed yesterday. Might sneak out today
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Took Friday off from the project. I did manage to shoot a 32inch Ling. I traded one of his fillets for 1 1/2 steelhead fillets. Coming down with what ever is in the wind. Didn't leave bed yesterday. Might sneak out today
Definitely sounds like scuba spear fishing is the most effective way to catch one of my favorite fishes.... lingcod!
Hope you feel better soon...
bd
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Todd, was wondering where you live. Sounds like you do some cool adventures. Dj
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Dj, I live in Oregon. Just west of Eugene. I do some kick ass stuff on occasion!
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After shoveling snow for half a day I did manage to finish the last scarf on the starboard bottom panel blank. I got the port blank off the jig without help. That’s a lot of wood right there!
Re: second layer bottom panel blanks. Would it work the same to trace the the shape onto the second layer blank, then use a spacer block to lay out the cut line. Just like it is suggested for bulkheads in manuals? Did that make sense? Less flipping me thinks!
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After shoveling snow for half a day I did manage to finish the last scarf on the starboard bottom panel blank. I got the port blank off the jig without help. That’s a lot of wood right there!
Re: second layer bottom panel blanks. Would it work the same to trace the the shape onto the second layer blank, then use a spacer block to lay out the cut line. Just like it is suggested for bulkheads in manuals? Did that make sense? Less flipping me thinks!
You'll want to be sliding that second layer around and looking at it to make sure it fits, no? Haven't heard of anyone not flipping the sheet over, but who knows? Maybe you're on to something?
Brian
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Sounds like it’s not fully recommended. Just looking for a easier way.
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Sounds like it’s not fully recommended. Just looking for a easier way.
I suspect the chance of making an error is greater, but that doesn't mean it won't work or that I'm correct. Poke around with the idea out in the shop and try it... there is always room for improvement :)
Brian
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While the subject of stringers is still hot I have a question. Should I preglass stingers if I will be adding to the top of them after the flip? How far should I go?
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While the subject of stringers is still hot I have a question. Should I preglass stingers if I will be adding to the top of them after the flip? How far should I go?
Preglass all stringers before installation .... easier that way. I do wrap the glass over the tops, and then between that and the fillets/glass tape to the hull, they're entirely encapsulated in glass. That's a good thing below decks....
If adding to the tops of the stringers later on, then glass over the top of the added wood and let it overlap the original glass by a couple of inches. Make sure ends of the added wood are buried in glass tape/epoxy to encapsulate the new wood completely..
Brian
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Groovy
thanks
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Groovy
thanks
Yeah ... sorry for the quick and dirty post. Was in a hurry but wanted to respond. You can do it in whatever order you want, the goal being all glass/epoxy under the deck. If you glass the LVL first, then add wood and glass that later, the glass/epoxy between the LVL and deck-raising wood provides another 'rot stop'. That would only matter if you one day decided to lag bolt into the stringers to mount something on the deck. Any leakage and rot from an imperfect seal would stop at the glass on top of the original LVL. But that's an extreme case. You can decide what to do. Personally, if I wanted to lag into the main stringers, I'd probably drill and oversize hole, fill with epoxy, and put a hex-head bolt into it head first (threaded end sticking up) and call it good. Lots of ways to skin a cat!
Brian
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No worries. Your response was timely and had all the info in it I needed to satisfy my curiosities. I do like the upside down bolt trick.
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No worries. Your response was timely and had all the info in it I needed to satisfy my curiosities. I do like the upside down bolt trick.
Yeah .. with the head of the bolt buried in epoxy, there's no way it can come out OR cause water intrusion into the wood. Similar for transom motor mount bolt holes ... oversize drill first, back-fill with epoxy and seal well, then drill correct size for the bolt through the middle of the epoxy 'plug'. Use washers or aluminum plating bigger than the original oversize hole so that loads are distributed to the plywood, not just the epoxy plug. My preference is a 1/4" aluminum plate, inside and out, holes drilled in the right place for bolts.
Brian
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I got my bottom panels cut out along with the second layer of bottom panels. I just let the side of the first layer overhang the saw horses enough I could trace from the underside. No flipping! I glued up some more shelf blanks. I need another sheet of 3/4” to finish those pieces. I want to have everything cut and ready before I butterfly the bottom. I think it will look like mad progress that way
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Looking good! Pretty soon, you'll go from big flat pieces of wood to something that is looking like YOUR BIG BOAT :D
Brian
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I had a void in one of my shelf blank laminations. I tried to fill it with unthickened epoxy. It started to drip out the other side. I taped some plastic to it to hold it back long enough for it to cure. I will later be able to dribble some in and fill the void. I used what was left for another project. Anyway, I added some cabosil and used it where I needed it. Had a bit left over. Came. Back in a hour and the solo cup was melted and the epoxy mix was cured hard as a rock. Why didn’t the unthickened epoxy cure at the same rate? It takes forever when you are “waiting “ for it.
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I had a void in one of my shelf blank laminations. I tried to fill it with unthickened epoxy. It started to drip out the other side. I taped some plastic to it to hold it back long enough for it to cure. I will later be able to dribble some in and fill the void. I used what was left for another project. Anyway, I added some cabosil and used it where I needed it. Had a bit left over. Came. Back in a hour and the solo cup was melted and the epoxy mix was cured hard as a rock. Why didn’t the unthickened epoxy cure at the same rate? It takes forever when you are “waiting “ for it.
One thing that affects the cure rate greatly is the temperature of the epoxy. Now, what that means when talking about epoxy in a cup versus epoxy on your project, is that the project (boat) will both draw heat out of the epoxy while it cures, and generally the epoxy on the project will have greater surface area which allows heat to dissipate into the room. When the epoxy is in a cup, there is minimum surface area and the epoxy's heat that comes from the curing reaction is going to be more trapped in the epoxy ... so the epoxy gets warmer, cures faster, warms itself even faster, cures even faster etc...
If I want a little longer pot life out of a batch of thickened epoxy, I'll spread it out thin on wax paper, or sometimes, around the sides of the cup to increase surface area.
Be careful with epoxy getting hot .... I've seen epoxy in a cup get hot enough to smoke ... I'm certain that breathing uncured epoxy smoke (hot fumes) is not going to be very good for your lungs. Your goal in using epoxy is to never expose yourself to it in a way that could cause you to develop a sensitivity to it ... once you develop a sensitivity to it, then that's it .... sensitive for life. Use good gloves, sleeve guards, and keep the epoxy cool.
Brian
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ive had a number of batches go off... the solution is mix small batches and have everything ready. I'm using 21 in epoxy now and there isn't time to mess around.... if there is any holdup I do exactly what brian says... dump out and or dumpe in shallow pans or multiple pans... and if its thickened I spread it on a piece of plastic like a big plastic box lid.......
I one time gave about 12 oz a 20 sec shot of microwave heat.... I started ewalkign downstairs and dy the time I got down the basement into the shop it was hot in my hands and congealing..... I threw it into the boat thinking I could salvage the resin and big globs and what looked like snot runs hardened up making quite a mess.....
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Thanks guys. Good to know
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I got some boaty stuff done this weekend. I built the last of the shelf blanks. I still need to scarf on the last length to each blank. I did get some cvg and glued up the bow stem blank. I also got the motor boards and upper doublers glued to the transom. I had a ah-ha moment today. I outsmarted myself by half once again. I realized that all of my careful parts stacking and separating are for a wet side down boat. I guess before I butterfly the bottom I pack all the parts out and trade sides. That will give me a opportunity to open the building and blow the dust outta there.
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I used David’s microwave trick on a few cold mornings. Worked well, you just need to move faster...
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I built a gravity fed pellet stove. I put the epoxy and hardener in front of it. It makes it easy to spread, but I can’t tell that the pot life is any shorter. I had one cup go off after I walked away from it. Probably about 40 grams of wasted epoxy. It melted the cup!
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I have my shear shelves all scarfed together now. I intended to glass the bottoms. The only tape I have wide enough to cover the entire bottom of the shelf is double what the plans call out. I have lightweight 4 inch wide tape. What do most people do?
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Todd what did you decide on swim platform? Dennis
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I have my shear shelves all scarfed together now. I intended to glass the bottoms. The only tape I have wide enough to cover the entire bottom of the shelf is double what the plans call out. I have lightweight 4 inch wide tape. What do most people do?
well I used my heavy tape to get it done. I let all the extra hang toward the inside of the boat. Can the extra tape be used to tie in the gunnel decks or should I just get rid of it?
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Todd what did you decide on swim platform? Dennis
I have not decided what to do about swim platform. At this time I have the transom built ready to glass and put away till the bottom is all done. I figure it will give me a bit more room in the cockpit. My stringers are quite a bit longer than they need to be. I’ve been thinking about letting them run wild and somehow using them to tie in the swim platform. My shop is just big enough to squeeze around one end of the boat at a targeted length of 27 1/2’. Are you building in a swim platform?
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I have my shear shelves all scarfed together now. I intended to glass the bottoms. The only tape I have wide enough to cover the entire bottom of the shelf is double what the plans call out. I have lightweight 4 inch wide tape. What do most people do?
If I read you right, you have the shelves all put together, ready to glass, but they're wider than the 4" tape you have? You can either buy wider tape, or allow subsequent applications of the tape (glass) to overlap an inch. It's a "do whatever works" kind of situation. There's nothing wrong with buying extra rolls of glass tape in varying width, in the 9-10 oz range .... you'll have other projects in the future, will do repairs and modifications etc. Stock up a little.
Brian
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I have my shear shelves all scarfed together now. I intended to glass the bottoms. The only tape I have wide enough to cover the entire bottom of the shelf is double what the plans call out. I have lightweight 4 inch wide tape. What do most people do?
If I read you right, you have the shelves all put together, ready to glass, but they're wider than the 4" tape you have? You can either buy wider tape, or allow subsequent applications of the tape (glass) to overlap an inch. It's a "do whatever works" kind of situation. There's nothing wrong with buying extra rolls of glass tape in varying width, in the 9-10 oz range .... you'll have other projects in the future, will do repairs and modifications etc. Stock up a little.
Brian
I just used the wider tape on hand. Should I get rid of the hangover bit on the inside? Or let it dangle to wrap around later. It might not be too easy to do that if I wetted any hang over tape, bit it may be doable. I more or less flushed it up to narrow side of the shear deck so there will be very little to trim off that side
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I am. The wife wants a rear door. I get a boat, she gets a door. Seems fare.
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That will work! I like it. I really thought hard about extending the deck and the bottom through the transom like you drew it. However without the curve. I decided against it only because it added to the build time and I thought it would less cumbersome so land a fish of the back. If I. Hold have built a foot longer I probably would have done something similar to your plan. Your wife got the door, my wife insisted on something inside the dimensions the plans allow. 27 1/2’ is still a good size boat.
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The curved transom(s) does take longer to build, BUT it's stronger too. Additionally, it helps in a following sea as well (which in turn is a help against tendencies to broach). I like it :)
Brian
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Ore progress and I owe a few pics
Bottom with stem in background
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Shear shelves glassed.
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Transom glassed
What is the best way to poke some epoxy into the little bubble at the bottom of the lvl. I was thinking small syringe typical of wisdom tooth washer.
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Go to your local feed and seed or vet supply and buy syringes, drill a 1/16" hole on each end of the bubble. Inject epoxy into one hole .... air goes out the other until the bubble is full. Put masking tape over both holes if the orientation of the wood would let the epoxy drain back out. That's what I do anyway. If it's a seriously big bubble, cut the bubble out with a razor blade and glass over it with a piece of glass large enough to overlap the surrounding glass (a patch).
Brian
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Should I expect my glass work to look like this? I know that it wAs wet. I did the job wet on wet. Is this air trapped ?
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Without being there to make sure, I would say it looks a little low on the epoxy saturation. It's likely that the underlying wood soaked up some of the epoxy in the glass while it was beginning to cure. Generally, when that happens, it'll be drier on the surface of the fiberglass because the epoxy migrates from outside to inside if the wood's soaking it up. The way to prevent this is to roll on plenty of epoxy when glassing, wait 15 minutes or so and roll on more wherever the weave of the glass is starting to show too much. For THIS epoxy work, a boat like the Great Alaskan, we are NOT trying to finesse the glassing so that it only has exactly the most perfect amount of resin in the glass ... leave that for the America's Cup boats. Having extra epoxy is fine. Glass generally will not float off the wood if you've rolled or squeegee'd from the center outward, which stretches the glass a bit.
In your case below, sand it lightly with 80-grit, wipe it down with ammonia water and let dry, then put a healthy coat of epoxy on it and move on... all is well. If the weave is showing after that, roll another coat of epoxy on. You want it to end up fairly glossy, but it's not necessary for the epoxy to fill the weave to the point of smoothness either. Extra epoxy below decks is never a bad thing, regardless.
Keep on truckin'.....
Brian
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Sounds good. Thanks
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Sounds good. Thanks
No problem ... I've done a little glassing that looked just like that myself! It'll work! :)
Brian
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I got my air bubbles on the transom filled with epoxy. Got the shelves off the jig and and readied it for the bottom. Did a little cleaning in the shop too. I bought a half dozen HF clamps for the build. Maybe tomorrow I will get the bottom stitched and opened up!
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I got my air bubbles on the transom filled with epoxy. Got the shelves off the jig and and readied it for the bottom. Did a little cleaning in the shop too. I bought a half dozen HF clamps for the build. Maybe tomorrow I will get the bottom stitched and opened up!
Yeah ... and you know what happens next, right? All those big flat pieces of wood that you've been man-handling around are suddenly going to be shaped like a big giant boat in your shop! It's one of my favorite parts of the build! (Other than sanding .... boy do I love sanding :o)
Brian
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Got the bottom butterflied and some epoxy stitches in! My shop just doubled in size getting the bottom panels off the saw horses.
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Sweet! Fun, eh?
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Nice
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It was pretty gratifying to see something that looks like a boat in there!
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It was pretty gratifying to see something that looks like a boat in there!
Wait until you see what a monster it is after you turn the hull upright!
Brian
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Ran the fillet and glasses the inside fairbody seam. That took lots more time than I figured it would. Then again when when I am reduced to 2 day weekends there is never enough time for anything. I got the chines epoxy stitched. It’s looking boatier all the time. In The pics it looks like some tape was t wet enough. It’s just a reflection. I used a boatload of epoxy on that seam. You see what I just did there? 🙂
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Looking great, Todd! Yeah ... if you calculate the volume in those long seams, it adds up to a lot more than you'd guess. On the other hand, think of the millions of slaps and pounds the hull will absorb from waves while you're out boat on the big water ... feels good to know that this boat design is over-strong. That was for a reason!
Love seeing your boat coming together! I appreciate all the pictures!
Brian
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Todd,
Looking good. Keep at it, progress is a matter of time. "Matter of Time" I might name my boat that.
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Looking great Todd! You are cruising! Question for you since you just did this - how many hours approximately did it take you to do the interior seam on the keel? I am doing it this week and want to do it all in 1 shot but need to plan so I don't get interrupted by the kiddos or their mom. :)
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It took me somewhere between 5-8 hours. I had everything I needed close by. Mix in large containers. Any unthickened epoxy you use to precoat the wood can just get thickened and used for your fillet. I did 10 foot sections wet on wet with 30 minute hardener. If I could do it again I would coat the entire seam all at once, fillet the entire seam all at once the tape it with prewetted glass all at once. Even if I only used 10 foot lengths of tape. HTH
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That does help! Thanks for the advice...
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I cut the zip tie stitches off with intentions of glassing the chines. I was looking over the project and something caught my eye. I seem to have a bit of a bump where the 4’ and 8’ length of 3/8” scarf together. I figure I could make it disappear before I add the second layer of bottom, but I’m concerned the stringers may not properly fit if the bottom is covered with cured cloth. I know there is a lot going on right there with the shape of the bow. In the photo you can almost tell that there is a gap at each end of the 2’ level. FWIW I checked a few dimensions and didn’t see anything wonky.
How concerning is this?
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Wow, I was just going to ask Brian the same question. I opened my bottom panel this week and see the same hump. Your right there is a lot of curves going on there.
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I also have this gap at my front mold #4. Do I need to screw this down at the top edge or let in round up. I did screw it down in the v
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Humps, bumps, and screws ... oh my!
No worries, guys. Wood is a natural product and it'll always vary from boat to boat. Remember the old saying that the only difference between an experienced wood worker and a greenhorn is that the experienced wood worker knows how to hide the defects better :)
OK ... back to boats. I wouldn't worry too awfully much about the humps and bumps - you'll have ample opportunity to fix those things later ... if it's still necessary to do. I would not try to fix these things now, and I'll tell you why. The bottom panels are a large floppy sheet of plywood and they'll take on much more of their final shape after they are resting on (and screwed down onto) the main stringers. Apply the second layer of 3/8" ply on the bow when it's time, and do not worry about filling humps or hollows first.
As for the 'hide the defects' mentality, keep in mind that each step is an opportunity to correct anything that's not quite right from the last step. For example, before adding the chine flats, make sure the spreader bar and critical dimensions at the bow are what the plans specify. Add a screw through bottom panels to molds (towards the top end of the molds) if necessary to pull the panels into the mold equally on both sides of the boat etc. Eyeball the edge that the chine flat will attach to, give the bottom panel assembly a general look and/or measure to make sure all is square, then add the chine flats. Just prior to adding the 'stitch welding' epoxy between ties, give it one last look .... you're not committed to anything until you've locked things in with epoxy (and even then, most things are fixable).
Later, before putting the side panels on, again ensure that the chine flats have a smooth straight run on their aft ends (as discussed in the manual) and that all curves forward of the aft straight run are fair and smooth (they will be) before you lock the side panels into place with epoxy.
It's not until after the outside of the boat has been glassed (seams, sheathing of the whole boat etc) that you stop and take a look at any remaining humps or hollows. Fairing these things out is the second-to-last thing that you do before finish coating ... whether graphite epoxy or a paint system. Once faired, the hull gets a couple of finish coats of epoxy and then you move on.
Hope that all makes sense - I'm just saying "stick with the plan and no worries". You've got to expect some variations to occur. Those molds are there for a reason, so no reason not to force bottom panels down onto them prior to putting on the chines Trust your eyes and double check a lot before locking things in with epoxy. Fair later, not now. No fairing between layers of plywood. Keep on truckin'! Looking great from this end!
Brian
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Thanks Brian. I too had a gap between the 3/8” ply and the mold. I just put a couple screws in it.
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Thanks Brian. I too had a gap between the 3/8” ply and the mold. I just put a couple screws in it.
This is the correct thing to do. The forward mold assumes a single layer of 3/8" ply and the offset to make up for the thinner plywood in this region is already designed in. Eyeball it after screwing it down and if it isn't quite fair, you can play with how tightly you screw it down or how much gap you leave - fair curves are the most important thing, and not to worry on side panel fit - they're fit to the boat, not vice versa. But really, all this is fine tuned via 3D CAD, so it should just work. I haven't heard otherwise and there's a lot of Great Alaskans floating around.... :)
Brian
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No progress this weekend. Our new puppy has learned to climb. I spent my free time gathering materials and building new/different fence. This has behind on other honey-dos I did buy some ammonia. So I guess that’s progress.
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No progress this weekend. Our new puppy has learned to climb. I spent my free time gathering materials and building new/different fence. This has behind on other honey-dos I did buy some ammonia. So I guess that’s progress.
Haha ... don't I know that feeling ... list of the want-to todos being nixed by the have-to todos :D
We're getting a new puppy this summer too ... a sister for our current fellow....
Dornschatten Labradors (https://dornschattenlabs.com)
Brian
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Our girl. She starts obedience school tonight.
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She looks really sweet :) How old?
bd
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About 12 weeks.
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About 12 weeks.
Nice ... cute too :)
We get our 2nd lab in late summer, I think .... we're #14 on the list and 1 dog pregnant, 2 going into heat soon.
Brian
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Labs are great dogs. We’re hooked on boxers. They are just happy clowns. This pup is our3rd and probably last puppy. I forgot how much work they are. Just like kids, when they grow up we say remember when.
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Labs are great dogs. We’re hooked on boxers. They are just happy clowns. This pup is our3rd and probably last puppy. I forgot how much work they are. Just like kids, when they grow up we say remember when.
Yup ... I've always liked Boxers too. Our neighbor has two beautiful brindle ones.... always playing and happy :)
bd
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I got my fencing project finished in time to tape 1 chine flat before I left for work again.
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Changed title since we have a new GA
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Changed title since we have a new GA
:D :D
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Yesterday I got home from work early enough to tape the other chine. Today I covered the inside of the fairbody with the 10 ounce cloth. I used a lot of epoxy. I think I used about 4 gallons of resin so far. I have been pouring out of laundry detergent container. It’s great because it has the anti drip son of a gun in the spout.
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I like your station with all the fiberglass on conduit / dowel. Mind is still in boxes on a table. You are making good progress.
I used a lot more epoxy than necessary in the beginning and by the time I get finished I will be close to an expert. I now spread epoxy around with a big plastic spreader / 6" putty knife. I also have been using a aluminum roller (3/4" round with grooves in it) to make sure the cloth is sitting down on the wood and go back with putty knife / spreader with firm pressure and low angle to remove the excess resin onto unsaturated cloth. Its amazing how much resin you can move and not have starved cloth.
I also started precoating the wood before glassing also using a 6" putty knife or whatever size fits the area, dump the resin out and spread it around and after you get it spread out go back with putty knife and use firm pressure (smash it!) and move the excess epoxy onto uncoated wood. You can wait until green state and carefully roll your glass out and continue or wait another day or more and give it a good scraping / cleaning and roll out glass.
I am still amazing how far the epoxy goes when pre-coating, then you do not have to worry about wood soaking up epoxy.
I am certain I could have saved 5+ gallons doing it this way.
Rbob
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The station works well. Cutting cloth is t real easy but not too bad. I have been using method 3 in the construction manual. I like having epoxy on the wood before I lay the cloth onto it. It’s still plenty easy to get the wrinkles out
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Cutting cloth: I like using scissors (dedicated to the task) for cross-cuts such as cutting fiberglass tape to length, but prefer a wheel cutter (for fabric) to convert cloth into strips of fiberglass tape. Cutting diagonally across cloth to make strips of tapes creates tape that has the yarn crossing the seam at a 45-degree angle without having to buy biax. When yarn crosses at a 45, it follows hard turns (like chines) a LOT easier without tending to lift up and create bubble spots.
Precoating and ridged rollers: I find that the ridged rollers work well, but are primarily useful for when rolling multiple-layer wet-on-wet layups or layups with mat layers (not recommended). Otherwise, if I precoat, scrape and sand, then the hard smooth surface that results really makes it easier to use a plain foam roller alone for all of your work - no ridged roller to clean. I quit using mine after I accidentally set it aside (and forgot about it) with epoxy and it cured hard all over it .... now I only use foam rollers. Everyone's techniques vary a little....
Brian
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I got the bottom panel assembly turned over and it’s patiently waiting it’s next bit of attention. I thought I was being careful. Making things just right before I committed to glass and tape. I set the molds back onto the fairbody just to see if anything moved. I was less than excited to find I cannot even for e it to fit the molds now. Also the last 18” or just about every aft of the glass and tape tends to hook up when I lay the level on it.
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At Mold 1 the fairbody is too wide. At 2 & 3 it’s too narrow. At 4 it’s pretty darn close to where it was when I turned it.
Brian, am I just being too picky? I think I should be more concerned with the hook in the aft end.
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Once the transom is supporting the aft end and the bottom panels are screwed/glued to the stringers, you'll want to take a look at things then. I expect some variation to occur, but this is OK. Trust your eyes. You want fair curves where curves exist and straight runs aft. If you're careful to guarantee straight runs on the chine flats before you lock them in by installing the side panels, then you're good. If after building the exterior hull seams and you're getting ready to add the sheathing (glass cloth) over the whole outside of the boat, then that's when you want to give it all a careful analysis and fix any hollows and fair-in any minor humps. It's not unusual to need to fill and fair - it's a big boat, unlikely to be naturally flat everywhere you look. Once the hull has been faired the first time, and you've glassed the whole thing, you'll again look at it all carefully, sighting the long way (fore to aft and vice versa) to look at the bottom etc before putting final epoxy coats on. You want 2 coats on top of any fairing compound or mix that you apply.
Can you take some longer perspective pictures of your boat? It's hard to tell for sure what you're pointing out. As far as I know, nobody's tried fitting bottom panels onto the assembly after putting it on the stringers. I care mostly that all curves are fair rather than how precisely the bottom fits the molds now that it's not supported in the same way.
Brian
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The close ups were to demonstrate the amount that the shape changed after rolling it over. I held the side of the mold down that was not in the photo. She is fair. I expect to cut off some of the aft end of the bottom panels when I fit the transom. I will post a pic when I get out side so you can see the whole bottom.
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How do the bottom panels fit the stringers? I expect some settling (flattening) of the deadrise, but it won't be much and the curves ought to remain fair. In your last picture, all look A-OK to me :)
Brian
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I’m a long way from fitting the stringers. I still need to tape the outside seams. I did fillet the keel. Maybe by next weekend I will be ready to lower the bottom onto the stringers. I still need to glass them.
I put the aft end straightening 2x6 back on the outside of the hull. I got it pretty much whipped. I think they will stay until I get the stringers in.
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I’m a long way from fitting the stringers. I still need to tape the outside seams. I did fillet the keel. Maybe by next weekend I will be ready to lower the bottom onto the stringers. I still need to glass them.
I put the aft end straightening 2x6 back on the outside of the hull. I got it pretty much whipped. I think they will stay until I get the stringers in.
Yes, I got ahead of myself and for whatever reason wondered about the stringers. You should at this time still have 2x4s (or similar) across the bottom panel assembly (clamped to chine flats on opposite sides) for strength so you can build the exterior seams. 2nd layer of bow goes on later, after the bottom panel assembly is lowered onto the stringers, transom, and stem. The bottom panel assembly will take on it's best final shape at that time. It never hurts to put things on like those 2x6s to hold the parts as close to final shape as you can while building seams.
Brian
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Gotcha. I need to find a way to better handle the bottom. I don’t have room enough to put it aside while I prep the jig for the next phase. Will have to do everything while it’s suspended overhead. Need another chainfall. Looking forward to the next batch of progress.
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Today I put the molds on the jig. I got the stringers and the shelves along with the stem all onto the jig. I was nice to get the parts off the floor and out of the way. I got rid of some scraps I was holding onto and have a little more room to maneuver in the shop. I had the the stringers on the jig before the shelves. Those rascals are extra stabby on one end and head bonky on the other. Somehow I managed to avoid them while moving around.
It was nice to see how well the parts fit together. The stem and shelves were just about perfect. No gap on the shelves at all. I think the stem support may have a tiny twist. Just looks like the top needs to pull over a tad.
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First of all, your shop is way to clean. Your making me clean my shop before I take any more pics. Secondly you speak my language when you use words like stabby and head Bonky. Lastly the boat is looks fantastic.
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Thanks. I built it just for the boat. Check out my thread titled “A house for a GA”. It’s in this forum too. You won’t believe what a piece of crap I started with. I started with a naked inside building that was so clean I found myself sweeping all the time since the new concrete was so well, new. I didn’t have time to put other crap in it. There is an advantage to leaving an inch of sawdust on the floor. It absorbs all the epoxy I slingshot away from my project. The floor is covered with it.
After seeing a big glassing project fail on another forum and one bad scarf(my fault) I am careful with the dust. It’s everywhere! I hit all the parts with a foxtail then with the shop vac. As soon as my other chainfall arrives I look forward to doubling the shop space as my project will become more boaty looking.
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The only epoxy joints that I've seen fail were either because of dust and/or epoxy starvation. You learn to de-dust and then glue things up right away before they re-dust, and end grain needs epoxy until the shine stays.
Love the last 2 pix in particular .... the curvy lines of the boat are really pretty ... you can see it materializing right before your eyes :D
Brian
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I think my epoxy scarf failed because I added resin instead of hardener
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I think my epoxy scarf failed because I added resin instead of hardener
Yeah ... I remember that. Human error ... it happens. Humans are everywhere too ... I think it's some kind of infestation :D
Brian
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observations to pass on. I built all the components and stored them for installation down the road. In particular I stored the shelves on edge against the wall. I wish now I would have clamped them together until I needed them. One of them took on an undesirable shape. While on the shelf molds the weirdo one doesnt take the same shape. It may settle out due to just sitting on the molds.
I’m not crazy about the shape of the shear as it is now. It’s humped up in the middle. I think #2 needs to move down. I’m pretty sure I built it correctly. I am building to 27 1/2’. I put mold 2 at 82” aft of 3. And mold 1 84” aft of 2. Does that sound right? Page 76.
Here lies the question. If I want to monkey with the shear should I have the transom locked in so something doesn’t go hAywire?
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observations to pass on. I built all the components and stored them for installation down the road. In particular I stored the shelves on edge against the wall. I wish now I would have clamped them together until I needed them. One of them took on an undesirable shape. While on the shelf molds the weirdo one doesnt take the same shape. It may settle out due to just sitting on the molds.
I’m not crazy about the shape of the shear as it is now. It’s humped up in the middle. I think #2 needs to move down. I’m pretty sure I built it correctly. I am building to 27 1/2’. I put mold 2 at 82” aft of 3. And mold 1 84” aft of 2. Does that sound right? Page 76.
Here lies the question. If I want to monkey with the shear should I have the transom locked in so something doesn’t go hAywire?
Good on ya for stopping and evaluating along the way - trust your eyes. The shelves should describe a fair curve, no humps and bumps.
So ... First observation. You did the right thing in averaging the mold locations between the 27' and 28' positions given in the manual. The curve of the sheer looks correct on the 'good side' but not on the other? Can you provide pix? My suggestion at this point is do what you need to do to force the 'bad side' into position. Once the side panels are on, the sheer shelves are locked into place. Without seeing a picture, I don't have a good read on how far off the one side is, so I can only speak in general terms here, but I can for example imagine things like building a custom mold at the right spot (a strong one) that you can clamp down to in order to give the sheerline the right shape on the 'bad side'. If the issue is small, say 1/2" plus or minus, you could consider fairing it out after the boat's upright too. And note that smaller variations are virtually unnoticeable on a finished boat as well. One guy that I know of got Mold 43 off by nearly 3" ... holy smokes, you might say(!) ... it gave his boat a powderhorn sheerline that in the end looked good. Can you take some some long-ways photos that look down the sheer and highlight the 'hump' and post them? Thanks....
Brian
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Yes I will send some pics when I get back home again. One side that has a smooth curve seems to look incorrect too. It appears that molds 1 an 4 are closer and to the shop floor than 2 and 3. Creating the banana shape. It is not what my eye likes but it is fair. Does that make sense? The wonky shelf has a upward bow between 3 and 1. Making them Banana shape worse looking and not fair. I know a picture is worth a thousand words. I will see if I can get far enough away with my limited space and post pics
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Yes I will send some pics when I get back home again. One side that has a smooth curve seems to look incorrect too. It appears that molds 1 an 4 are closer and to the shop floor than 2 and 3. Creating the banana shape. It is not what my eye likes but it is fair. Does that make sense? The wonky shelf has a upward bow between 3 and 1. Making them Banana shape worse looking and not fair. I know a picture is worth a thousand words. I will see if I can get far enough away with my limited space and post pics
You're building a standard GA, right? Not the Kodiak? Double check your molds against the specs given in drawing #010 (I believe) to make sure the vertical positioning of the shelves is right, and double check the mold locations on the jig too. Just for the record, note that unlike some boats that have a low spot in the sheerline in the amidships region, the Great Alaskan sheerline is a monotonically increasing curve from stern to stem. In other words, the sheerline gets progressively higher from the stern forward to the stem, and the curve upward gets a little steeper on the forward half of the boat. Look at the profile pictures of the boat in the #000x series of drawings to see what it is supposed to be shaped like.
I look forward to seeing your pix....
Brian
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Yes. Short skinny GA. Not the kodiak ;D
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Yes. Short skinny GA. Not the kodiak ;D
You likes your boats like you likes your gals, eh? :D
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Good news Todd, we are neck and neck on our builds so I went out and looked at my build and like yours it appears that mold 2 is high(humpy) then I started thinking about it. Mold 1 and2 are almost level, mold3 is much lower as it turns up at the bow. So it makes sense to me that the hump should be there. 1,2,3 should not be in a straight line.. 1 and 2 should be straight.
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Good news Todd, we are neck and neck on our builds so I went out and looked at my build and like yours it appears that mold 2 is high(humpy) then I started thinking about it. Mold 1 and2 are almost level, mold3 is much lower as it turns up at the bow. So it makes sense to me that the hump should be there. 1,2,3 should not be in a straight line.. 1 and 2 should be straight.
Looking at Sheet #010c, you can see that the shelf molds get deeper as you progress from the stern (Mold #1) towards the bow (Mold #4 and f'w'd). This is as it should be. Now, when the stem presses the tips of the shelves downward (see top half of dwg 010), there may be some tendency for the shelves to bow upwards, leveraging off of Mold #4 (bow end) ... if they do, then you should clamp them to the shelf molds. It's not a bad idea to clamp to the molds on every one of the 4 molds and then sight down the shelves to see how they're doing. That's the picture that I'd like to see. From what Todd says, one of his shelves took on a warp or (?) while set aside in storage and may not follow the intended curve as nicely as it should ... which is a different thing than I just described .... but perhaps clamps on molds will pull things into shape? But anyway ... this is all conjecture until Todd (no rush!) gets a chance to post some pix. Regardless, it's interesting ... and whatever is going on, there IS always a way to fix it. No worries :D
Brian
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For comparison, a pic of mine
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Both of my shelves fit the molds without clamps. I didn't force the shelves down at all to the stem. I have the issue same as Djeffery and a crooked shelf on the other side. Put in a few day!
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For comparison, a pic of mine
I only looked at mine as viewed from the stem. That's the only way I can get far enough away to see it. Do you get a different perspective if your is viewed from the stem.
I don't see the hump in yours that I see in mine.
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This hump?
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Mine bump up at mold 2. Second mold from the aft end
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Mine as well. I think that is correct.
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This is the hump at mold 2
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This is after I lowered the mold to 1 inch above the 2x4 brace.
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This is the shelf that went wild
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I know it’s rough to see what I was complaining about in the first 2 photos. I have more boat than building. The shear is more appealing to me after the adjustments. I need to add a mold and force the jump out in the third photo. With the adjusted mold the shear looks more like the drawings to me. I checked all the dimensions and they were good to go.
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Thanks for the pix, Todd ... helps a lot. The good side looks fine to me, especially after adjusting the mold a little. All pieces of wood will bend slightly differently, so I'm not entirely surprised.
I can see how the 'wild side' is different in shape. I wonder if you can put a long straight piece of wood on top to bridge what looks like a low spot beyond the 'hump' and then clamp it to pull the low spot upward until the curve is straight ... even as a temporary thing (since it's like in the way of installing side panels) while you fit a custom mold to that area ... might need some experimenting. I would also say that if you got it 90% correct, that fill/fairing and the overall size and detail of the finished boat would result in slight differences not being noticeable. I always say, "Each step of construction is a chance to fix what went wrong in the LAST one AND is a new step to complete." Ask me about the pilot house door where I cut the opening too large and had to fit ply into the opening to reduce it to the correct size (and fair it all in), or about the nice bulkhead alignment lines I drew on the hull ... then installed the bulkhead with the line on the front face at the top, and the line aligned with the back face at the bottom ... nobody could ever tell that he bulkhead had a bit of slope to it! In the end, you get a great boat ... just keep going and keep an open mind, fix, forget, progress onward... 'tis the life of a boat builder. :)
Brian
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We’ll see if I get back out there to fix it today. Got to do life stuff for awhile.
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We’ll see if I get back out there to fix it today. Got to do life stuff for awhile.
It's OK ... the shop will be there waiting for you :D. No shop, no sanity ... have shop, will build :)
bd
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Got to play for a couple hrs in the shop. I added two molds to the jig between 1 and 2. I got both sides shear to match one another. I studied the shear line on the plans that locate the molds. I was able to get them super close using a line laser. I shot in one side then the other. This is a before and after on the side I thought was closest to correct.
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The other side before and after.
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I ended up placing mold 2 back in its intended location. I may play with it a bit more. It’s very difficult to get a perpendicular perspective since I can’t roll the jig out.
It appears to me the shear is straight for the last 8 feet or so. It would be nicer to have the subtle curve all the way aft. There’s always tomorrow
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I ended up placing mold 2 back in its intended location. I may play with it a bit more. It’s very difficult to get a perpendicular perspective since I can’t roll the jig out.
It appears to me the shear is straight for the last 8 feet or so. It would be nicer to have the subtle curve all the way aft. There’s always tomorrow
Looks good from here ... the aft part of the sheer is fairly straight by design. You'll never notice any differences.... :)
Brian
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You'll never notice any differences.... :)
Nor will the fish
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Ya I know. The shear is what defines the boats sexy right of the bat. I want sexy!
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Couple hiccups. The shear and stringers do not fit the transom well. Everything is PLS and I checked all the dimensions and I found everything is to be within a 1/8” of the target.
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It looks like I can fix the stringers by deepening the notch and raising the temporary framing a bit. I’m already +4” on them. A bit more wont be the end of the world.
Brian I have 41” measuring from the bottom of the transom at the outside edge of the chine flat to the top of the shear. Given that, if I raise the stringers to match the transom notch am I in any danger of running out of side panel width at 48”?
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I ended up putting 1/2” plywood spacers on the temp supports. Other the transom a bit deeper with some chisel work and the stringers fit perfectly. That puts my shear 4 1/2” above the stringers design dimensions
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You've got the right idea. With a boat this long (with PARTS this long), a small error on one end can result in larger error on the other - You just do what you need to do to fit the parts. For example, if you've lofted and cut out the shelves for the boat and boat sides match and are fair, then you may have to do a little adjusting on the shelf molds and transom slot to make it all fit. For example, place the shelves in the molds, forward tips clamped together and in the transom slots as described in the manual (for order of events), but nothing epoxied yet. If the shelve molds are a little too wide, then it could be that with the forward tips clamped together, the aft ends don't fit all the way into the transom slots. The forward tips together and the fit in the transom are the bottom lines here, and you should do a little trimming on the inside edges of the shelf molds to let the shelves go where they need to while they are supported in place. And as the manual suggests, if the joint at the forward tip doesn't fit just right, run a saw through it to remove wood on the tighter part of the joint and move the tips together again ... repeat if necessary to create a nice joint at the bow. Clamp or screw the tips of the shelves together there, then attempt to fit the aft ends of the shelves into the transom ... adjusting molds as necessary. If the shelves are a bit wider than the slots in the transom that were made for them, then ... adjust the slots in the transom until there's enough room for the shelves. Don't epoxy anything into place until the bow end is correct, the shelves are all properly supported (vertically) by each shelf mold, and the aft end of the shelves fit the transom slots nicely.
Brian
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Loosened up the shelf molds and tapped the shelves to where they should go. I thought that it was interesting that moving the #1 in about 5/16” had no effect on molds 2 and 3. I ended putting them back where they were. I have tha transom all braced up to the jig and it is glued to the shelves now. Next on the list is to glass the stringers so I can get the bottom panel assembly on the jig again.
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Loosened up the shelf molds and tapped the shelves to where they should go. I thought that it was interesting that moving the #1 in about 5/16” had no effect on molds 2 and 3. I ended putting them back where they were. I have tha transom all braced up to the jig and it is glued to the shelves now. Next on the list is to glass the stringers so I can get the bottom panel assembly on the jig again.
Wood is what it is ... each piece a little different. And 5/16" is nothing !
Glad to hear of your progress! Post more pix ... love'm!
bd
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Transom glued in for good! Went a little nuts bracing the transom. It’s heavy and I don’t want it putting weight on the shear.
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Looking good! It never hurts to add extra support to heavy components. Another place you'll likely want to do this is to block up the shelves halfway between the stem and forward mold while you install the side panels. When the shelf-to-side panel mating surfaces are all 'lubricated' with epoxy, bending the forward side panels around the boat will want to force the shelves downward (towards the floor) ... the construction manual describes how to mark and check as you go - if you want to avoid a powderhorn sheerline, then you'll want to block-up the shelves. FYI.
Brian
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I bought a 3 piece roller kit from amazon after seeing it used on another boat. That grooved roller and the surform are my new favorite tools. I started glassing the stringers today as I wait for my chain fall to arrive. The roller really does a great job at getting the air out of the glass without lifting it like the foam roller does. I’m hoping to have the bottom assemble back on the jig next weekend
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I knew you would like it. Really lays the glass down in the resin.
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Thanks Djeffrey for the tip!
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Is this the correct way to install the corner knee?
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Yup, you've got it. On the underside (the side you can see above), make sure you give the knee/transom seam a nice thick fillet and glass. Optional, but I like milled glass fiber in any thickened epoxy mix used for connecting to the transom or bow (or even fairbody) - these are stress concentration areas. Also notice that on the topside (the side that faces the sky), you can't put a fillet and glass because the blocking goes there ... OR you can, but you'll have to shape the blocking to match the fillet's curves and will likely have some fill to do. But it's not necessary. The epoxied-in blocking adds plenty of strength and that's why it's there.
As in the pic below, top side of the knee will get blocking that adds up to the thickness of the sheer shelves. You'll likely put plywood on top for corner storage areas (later) that will bring it up to the same level as the sheer decks (below).
Brian
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Thank you! I wasn’t as sure looking at the photos in the plans. Now I can do something while I wait for stringers to cure.
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I might be the last to know this, but. Don’t put your abs pipe fillet tools in acetone. I did it today and in half a day I had a black smudgy mess. It disappeared!
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Yeah ... haha. You can use a strong vinegar mix to clean them if the epoxy's very fresh, otherwise, just wipe until clean with paper towels when done. They're cheap and replaceable. Acetone melts the ABS plastic....
Brian
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I made a bunch of them from a scrap of pipe I had. They will go in the garbage from now on.
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I made a bunch of them from a scrap of pipe I had. They will go in the garbage from now on.
I find the elbows to be handy ... but a couple in each size from really big (4") on down... 2" and smaller being the most common sizes that you'll use.
Brian
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Sooooo, I forgot to pull the screws that held the transom to the shelf. When I went to unscrew them they of course broke. The are of course ferrous. They are buried 1/4”-1/2” inside the face of the transom. Is there much chance these could come back to haunt me? The only screws I have broken so far are on the transom where I used the milled glass and thickener. It’s strong stuff I guess.
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Sooooo, I forgot to pull the screws that held the transom to the shelf. When I went to unscrew them they of course broke. The are of course ferrous. They are buried 1/4”-1/2” inside the face of the transom. Is there much chance these could come back to haunt me? The only screws I have broken so far are on the transom where I used the milled glass and thickener. It’s strong stuff I guess.
If it were me, I'd dig them out and have peace of mind about it. Hole filling is easy, so a ragged hole is OK. Seems like I saw a trick for getting screws out like these ... like a big roll pin that you could twist onto the end of the screw (screw inside the hollow roll pin), then use a driver-drill to back them out. I've done things like drilling holes all around the busted screw and then used needle nose pliers or vise grips to grab them and turn/wiggle them out. I'd google around ... might be an easy way....
Brian
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Ok. I will just peck away at it with a chisel or drill around it as you suggested.
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When epoxy has set and it is hard to get the screws out try heating the screw head with a soldering iron. It will usually soften the epoxy enough to back the screw out. Broken off, a different story.
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Don't worry about broken screws. I've probably got two dozen broken off screws in various places on my 19 year old Tolman and I've never seen hide nor hair of any of them. You'll do more damage trying to dig them out than you will ever encounter by leaving them in. Screws don't back themselves out of wood over time. And I've been doing carpentry work for 40+ years.
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My favorite tool for broken screws are a steel roll pin. Buy a couple different sizes so it will fit the screw.
No need to dig it out, I used a clearance drill same size as the od of the roll pin and drill down till you feel the broken screw., just pound it down on the screw and then send a flame from a micro torch down the roll pin and unscrew it with a vice grip:
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Don't worry about broken screws. I've probably got two dozen broken off screws in various places on my 19 year old Tolman and I've never seen hide nor hair of any of them. You'll do more damage trying to dig them out than you will ever encounter by leaving them in. Screws don't back themselves out of wood over time. And I've been doing carpentry work for 40+ years.
Thanks ... that's real life experience that is very good to know about :)
Brian
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Thanks, Rbob.... that was the trick that I was looking for :D
Brian
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I’m almost ready to glue the bottom on. Before I do I have a question.
Here goes. Has anyone ripped the bottom half off the stringers where the extend beyond the transom, and left them wild? I’m wondering if it would help to make a super sturdy support for swim platform. The piece ripped off could be ripped down again and glued to the piece still on the boat to raise the platform further above the water line.
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Not sure if you saw these. I think if you raised the swim platform out of the water you would lose some flotation at the back of the boat.
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Yes, these boats are comparatively light weight compared to commercial glass or aluminum boats. It is better to extend the bottom as shown above than it is to have a bracket that's raised above the bottom of the boat, e.g. Armstrong style brackets.
Brian
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I’m referring to a “swim platform” support not a bracket. I’m building the transom per plan. The outboard will hang off it. I want a swim platform of some kind if for no other reason than to get back into the boat when I fall out. I thought maybe someone had used the stringers that were sticking out to facilitate this. Maybe I will draw a picture.
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Got some shop space back!!
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I’m referring to a “swim platform” support not a bracket. I’m building the transom per plan. The outboard will hang off it. I want a swim platform of some kind if for no other reason than to get back into the boat when I fall out. I thought maybe someone had used the stringers that were sticking out to facilitate this. Maybe I will draw a picture.
Oh ... Gotcha. I think everything will work fine as you describe :) But yeah, show us a sketch and I can say for sure, but I misunderstood at first and think your swim platform concept is fine.
Brian
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Nice progress!
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Thanks Djeffrey.
So now that I have seen the boat in it’s space I wish I would have went bigger. Oh well, that ship has sailed. Still thinking about my swim platform idea and remembered the all whit OR GA with the sponsons added as to not waste or cutoff extra material hanging out. I like that idea better! It is also proven too. IIRC that boat holds the worlds record for fastest GA. Anyway this brings up a couple questions for Brian.
Here goes.
1) I stopped the glass on the stringers just short of the transom. If I do the sponson do I need to continue the glass to the end through the transom for strength reasons?
2) my bottom panel assembly sticks out past the the transom by 21 1/2” the stringers much further. What would be ideal length? I figured use it all.
3) the chines are approximately 9” shorter than bottom panels. To extend these can I “just butt them up” since I’m outside the main structure of the boat? Or do I need to 8 to 1 these in place?
4) it seems this way I could mount a kicker on the port sponson without worrying about adding weight to the transom.
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The white GA in Oregon with sponsons was a little heavy in the stern. Partly because of no flotation in the center section and the fact that the motor was on a bracket as long as the sponsons (or close to it). Would've been better to build one as shown above so no loss of flotation if a long bracket were desired. It's a big heavy motor too, which didn't help. And he built a lightweight house and walk-through cuddy. All in all, that boat performed great regardless, but picks up a little porpoising at speeds above 44.
1) Stringers and glassing ... not so much a strength necessity near the stern, but you want them wrapped with glass and encapsulated with epoxy considering their 'in the bottom of the boat' location. Waterproof and check proof (crack-proof).
2) Yeah ... unless you like scarfing in an area where you want the bottom to be as flat as possible (followed by fairing and crossed fingers), I'd let the bottom panels define the swim platform length.
3) Yes, just glass over the butt-joint top and bottom with at least 10-oz and 6" overlap on each side of the seam, and do everything you can to make them run flat like a true continuance of the chines.
4) Probably ... Might want to consider trailer bouncing it around. The further from the axles of the trailer, the more kicking in the kicker ... if you can remove it for towing, that'd be best. Use a strong bracket or make a mini-transom for it.
Brian
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Nice progress Todd! Almost time to get some sides slapped on that thing. :)
Brian, from your answer to (2) here, as I am also kicking around scarfing some extra length on the bottom panels to max out my stringers, what types of performance or stability issues manifest when the bottom back portion isn’t perfectly flat or true? I have seen mention that it should be in numerous places, but haven’t heard an explanation of what the adverse effects are if it’s not. I imagine it probably depends on the type of defect (cup, curve, etc) but would love to learn more to make a more informed decision.
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Thanks Jason. I feel like it’s almost about to look like a boat. It sure is nice to have so much more room in the shop.
Brian, I have no intention to use a bracket. It sounds like the sponson idea is not the best choice for my build after all. I didn’t realize until further study that the motor was back as far as the sponsons. My build will be much different than the boat we are talking about.
I think after you pointed out so many differences I’m going to trim off the the bottom past the transom and mock up the swim platform for you to look At.
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Thanks Jason. I feel like it’s almost about to look like a boat. It sure is nice to have so much more room in the shop.
Brian, I have no intention to use a bracket. It sounds like the sponson idea is not the best choice for my build after all. I didn’t realize until further study that the motor was back as far as the sponsons. My build will be much different than the boat we are talking about.
I think after you pointed out so many differences I’m going to trim off the the bottom past the transom and mock up the swim platform for you to look At.
Lots of thinking goes into a boat, and it'll be great when it's done! And yes, definitely post sketches and we'll get it all tuned in before you invest time and cut wood!
Brian
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Nice progress Todd! Almost time to get some sides slapped on that thing. :)
Brian, from your answer to (2) here, as I am also kicking around scarfing some extra length on the bottom panels to max out my stringers, what types of performance or stability issues manifest when the bottom back portion isn’t perfectly flat or true? I have seen mention that it should be in numerous places, but haven’t heard an explanation of what the adverse effects are if it’s not. I imagine it probably depends on the type of defect (cup, curve, etc) but would love to learn more to make a more informed decision.
Ideally, you want water to slide straight backward off the bottom of the boat, disconnecting cleanly at the transom. This will produce the best efficiency and performance.
As far as what defects do what:
- If the bottom is a hump near the stern, it'll tend to suck the stern deeper into the water (bow higher), and part of your horsepower is going into maintaining that downward suction on the stern of the boat. Same thing, but much lesser, occurs if the radius of the edge where the transom meets the bottom is too large. If the issue is too large (hump), you can also introduce porpoising to the boat (same thing as a boat with a CG too far aft due to loading etc).
- If the bottom has a hollow towards the stern, it acts more like trim tabs, pushing the bow down and making it plow a little more than it should ... again, a waste of energy from your motors, lower fuel efficiency.
- If you have both humps and hollows, or one side has a hump and the other a hollow, then you've got situations fighting each other and see more of a general loss of efficiency (which also means speed, BTW). If one side has a hollow and the other side a hump, then the boat will heel to the side that has the hump when on plane.
You achieve optimal planing trim and fuel efficiency if none of the issues above exist. That's the goal. It's easiest to extend bottom length when all plywood is flat on the shop floor.
Something else to consider is that this boat tapers narrower from amidships to the stern, so extending the boat would continue that tapering and it'll appear that the transom is too wide as a result. The RIGHT thing to do, assuming putting the original transom design at the stern end of the boat (not the swim platform shown above), is to allow the transom to define the width of the stern even if it means moving shelves outward to do so. This will produce more of a gap between side panels and the chine flats, but it's perfectly fine to fill them and glass the seams right over the filled gap. It'll be small... a quarter inch or so.
Note that if the hull lengthening or 'extension' is a swim platform behind the transom, that it's OK to allow the small amount of taper to continue, but I still prefer the swim platform being as wide as the original transom, even if it introduces a gap along the edges of forward or 'original' transom... It's all fine tuning though, small gaps, and will work either way. I just like more flotation in the stern than less...
Does that thoroughly confuse things? :D
Brian
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That curved transom sure is a beaut!
Brian
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This is kinda what I had in mind. What do you think?
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Todd,
Nice sketch! Looks like it'll work, but I have one question. In the top view of the transom, you've got angular sections rather than a flat transom? If not building a laminated curved transom, then you'll want those nice heavy motor boards (2 LVLs, one above the other) running clear across the boat from one side to the other. Now, if that's what you are doing and those angular sections are only higher than the motor boards, then that's fine. Just use strong transom-to-side and transom-to-bottom seams with milled glass fiber, wood powder, silica epoxy mix and strong glass.
Plus, I suspect you'll have a short motor bracket or jack plate between the two swim platforms? Make sure the manufacturer's clearance requirements are met for when the motor is turned hard to the side. I expect there's enough room between the extended stringers, but you'll want to verify that. If you don't know what motor you'll use yet, just check several manufacturers and outboard sizes and design for worst case.
Brian
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In the overhead view I was attempting to show the shape of the transom as it leans aft. It looks like sheet 000d. I just didn’t add anymore detail like you did. I built the transom per plans with four more inches added to the sole.
I think I will cut everything off and leave the stringers wild for now. I can always cut them off if I change my mind later
I had not planned on any bracket or jack plate is there really any advantage? I don’t even begin to know what the prices are or where to find one.
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In the overhead view I was attempting to show the shape of the transom as it leans aft. It looks like sheet 000d. I just didn’t add anymore detail like you did. I built the transom per plans with four more inches added to the sole.
I think I will cut everything off and leave the stringers wild for now. I can always cut them off if I change my mind later
I had not planned on any bracket or jack plate is there really any advantage? I don’t even begin to know what the prices are or where to find one.
Ah! I get the view ... thanks :)
4" to the sole .... keep in mind that in the original design, the lower motor mount bolts are right between the bottom of the drywell and the deck. If you raise the deck, which is a great idea, just make sure you account for where those lower bolts come through so you can either leave the deck open to the bilge or have access through a large deck plate to those bolts. And it's a good idea to use an aluminum plate as a big washer for those bolts too. They'll stay trouble free the longest that way (you should check their torque now and then for the first few trips.
My preference is for a short jack plate. It'll let you tune the cav plate-to-water height just right. I like that better than 'move that heavy motor up or down a set of holes' (which usually leads to calling it "good enough" and NOT adjusting it).
Brian
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Wow. I did one side of the second layer of bottom today. I thought it was way worse than fitting/gluing the bottom on. I used 30 minute hardener with a shop temp of 60-65F. I had plenty of time for both jobs, but I sure wish I had someone to feed fresh epoxy to me.
I had the chance to use Rbob’s busted screw removal technique. I used a soldering gun to preheat the screw, but it wasn’t very warm at all and worked well. It so easy there’s really no reason to leave a broken screw behind. I used a gasket punch instead of a drill and it makes a perfect hole without making a ugly hole to patch.
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Any reason one cannot fabricate the rear framing from plywood and maybe a layer of biax in the middle? The best I could do was $80 for two 8’ cvg 2x4. I have enough scrap I’m sure I could make 4 nearly any size and shape I want.
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Todd,
That's fantastic on the screw removal! I think I'll post your pix on the FaceBook page :) Thanks for sharing .... I wish I knew that trick when I've done the 'drill and wreck and dig and drill and wreck and dig ... then huge fill and fix' process, LOL.
By 'rear framing', I believe you're talking about the 2x4-ish vertical pieces that go from deck to shelves? Their primary job is to prevent flex, and there by allow to transfer loads, in the side panels. The primary structural components are the shelves and sheer deck structure, and the deck and stringers all glued into a 'box girder' type assembly. The vertical framing pieces are secondary. That said, there is no reason you can't laminate them up as described ... except you do not need to add biax between layers. And whether using solid or laminated-from-ply framing pieces, you'll be glassing them on the inside anyway. Just laminate them up and put'm in. CVG is awesome stuff, but if it's that spendy nowadays, then it's time to find another way, eh? Another option for this boat, wherever I called out CVG wood, is to use knot-free (or tight-knot) solid lumber. Just let epoxy wick into cracks and defects around the knots or wherever they occur first, then glass before putting them in. Close 'nuf.
Brian
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I Installed the other second layer of bottom today. As I neared the bow screwing off as I went, I started to lose my gap that I carefully set using carpenters pencils. Ir happened on both sides. Without the gap as I set it, I would have hit the chines before I could draw it right. Just a heads up for those coming behind me. That gap matters!
Btw Brian, we discussed laying out the second layer of bottom without all the flipping of the panels. This could have contributed in some way to my loss of the gap. It worked!
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There's more than one way to skin a cat, and I'm always open to hearing about improvements that might help out others. That's one of the reasons that these forums are here ... not just to answer questions for individuals as needed, but so others can learn too.
Brian
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TodAy I scarfed the side panels. I wish I had done it while I had the jig rigged as a scarfing table. These scarfs looked the best yet.
Brian, is there any reason you say to fair the bottom before the sides go on? I’m thinking it doest matter, but wanted to be sure.
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TodAy I scarfed the side panels. I wish I had done it while I had the jig rigged as a scarfing table. These scarfs looked the best yet.
Brian, is there any reason you say to fair the bottom before the sides go on? I’m thinking it doest matter, but wanted to be sure.
Did I say that? :)
What's important is that the parts fit together right, e.g. proper inset on the stem and the bottom panel assembly in the right position, and that the entire length of the chine flats are as perfect as you can get them ... nice straight runs aft, smooth and fair curve up to the bow. Once the side panels are locked in with epoxy, it locks in the shape of those chine flats. Anything can be faired if something went wrong, but it's easiest if you make things as perfect as you can before locking in with epoxy.
As for fairing the bottom (etc), note that it is done to some degree always ... after taping the seams, before sheathing the hull if there are any hollows to fill, the overlap areas of glassing (always). Each step 'corrects' or smooths out the last one. Makes it easier when it comes time for final coating.
Brian
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I didn’t think of it like that. I glassed two side panels yesterday and they are ready to hang. It sure looks more boaty with them mounted rather than up against the wall. I’ve resisted getting on top of the hull since it’s 8 feet off the floor and really hot up there! Time to dig in before it really heats up
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Kinda crappy shots as the building isnt big enough to get any distance away.
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That's looking good!
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It's looking sweet! Nice how smoothly those side panels curve around the boat, isn't it? :D
Brian
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Great progress
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I have 1 side on now. Epoxy stitches curing over night. It sure looks bigger with the side panels on. Still a ton of work to do, but it feels closer to being ready to flip just because it looks like a boat.
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Looks great! You think it looks big now? Wait until you turn it over and can no longer see inside without a boarding ladder! :D
bd
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Got both sides on now. Not looking forward to all The sanding. Thinking about getting a WEN air filtration deal for the shop. They are cheap and I’m worth it
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Todd,
Your boat is coming along very nicely, scarfs look good so you should not have a whole bunch of fairing to do. The best and easiest fairing compound I have tried is system three quick fair.
Its expensive and worth every penny. I tried mixing my own, lots of searching for an easy sanding mix but for the money and time spent I would have used it from the beginning. It sets up fast so you can sand the same day and re-apply. I bought the three quart tubs, twice.
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Thanks for the compliment. I’m getting better with the scarfs. Here’s the scarfs I cut for the on the boat scarfs I did yesterday.
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- Sweet scarfs! You've got that down pat!
- Yes, highly recommend an air filtering system ...
- Good advice on the Quick Fair stuff ... you mix very small batches at a time because it cures quickly, but it goes a long way too .. you'll be surprised
:D
Brian
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WhAts the easiest way to fix this? I think I did t take enough off the stem. My first thought was to add a couple layers of glass and just taper it to nothing.
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I did some sanding and blew a lot of dust out. The boat saw the light of day today. I also bought 2 wen air filtration boxes. For those on the fence, the price went up in the last week.
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The things we fuss over
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Looks like you got it dialed in! The only thing I'd add is that if the milled off ply made the ply thinner in areas inside the boat that are not backed by the wood of the stem and/or thick fillet and glass, then after the boat is upright, build those areas back up. For example, laminate a cut-to-fit piece of ply over the thin areas, making sure the patched in piece extends onto full-thickness ply, then glass it in and use nice fillets and filling along seams or stair-steps of ply on ply. It's all inside the crash chamber, so it won't be seen. Strong is good :)
Brian
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Good idea. I’m sure it’s mostly backed by the stem. I might laminate in a chunk of 3/8” just for good measure. Thanks for bringing it up
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Looking good!
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I catch from Kokanee jigging
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So, as fairing is in full swing what is the preferred long board? Air, is there a electric one? What’s everyone else using?
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I am using a 16 inch by 2 3/4 inch two handed block I got off amazon. Hook and loop sandpaper. I like the hook and loop because it seems to hold paper solid. I just ordered a flexible one for curves, same paper. I am using microballoons for fairing, sands fast.
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So, as fairing is in full swing what is the preferred long board? Air, is there a electric one? What’s everyone else using?
The point of a long board is to a) be flexible so it'll follow the natural curves of the boat, and b) it's long enough to span typical humps and hollows in the surface of the boat. I have not seen any commercial answer that I like as well as the one that I made for myself. First ... go down to your local auto body repair supply house (or online) and see what type of sticky-back sandpaper they have. It'll come in rolls and will typically be around 3" wide. That's how wide you make your long board. The length should be about 24" to 26" long. Cut it out of 1/4" plywood. Add 3/4" dowel handles, on end, one about 2" from either end of the long board. I glue and screw it in place, screwing from the back (sandpaper) side, counter sinking the screw so it won't stick up under the sandpaper. I added a small fillet of epoxy around the base of each handle to strengthen it up.
I long board by sanding horizontally first, then at a 45-deg angle up one way, the at a 45-deg angle up the other way (the two 45-deg angles are 90-deg apart from each other). The primary sanding is the horizontal direction and this will reduce your work when sanding at the 45-deg angles. Don't make things absolutely perfect ... This is one of those 80% rules ... work beyond that won't show in the final paint.
Brian
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Yes you can make your own just how you want, paper is 2 3/4" wide. I prefer the hook and loop so I bought industrial strength hook and loop off of Amazon a 15ft roll for $17. You only need one side for the sandpaper.
You can buy hook and loop sandpaper in rolls also so if you make a non-standard board it will work perfectly or cut up the 16 1/2" to make it work.
The reason I like hook and loop is you can re-use the paper or switch between grits easily, if the sticky stuff gets dust on it, no stick no more!
For fairing I like #60 and switch to finer grit (150 -220) before priming but for sanding primer you don't want the HD and they make almost any grit you need.
Amazon is where I purchased the Mirka Abranet, it is screen type roll, not solid backing.. blows out easily, less clogging.
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Soo, are you getting both sides of the hook and loop so you can attach one side to your custom board?
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Yes, sir! Its is a super sticky adhesive so line it up good before you lay it on your board and press it down firmly / use a roller to attach. It does not come off.
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I was confused because what you posted looks like open mesh. I looked at several boards on Amazon and didn't see the abrasive that went with. I can make my own with al the stuff ifi get it right.
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Todd,
The sandpaper is open mesh Velcro backed.
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=mirka+abranet+roll&ref=nb_sb_noss_1 (https://www.amazon.com/s?k=mirka+abranet+roll&ref=nb_sb_noss_1)
You can buy the durablock hook and loop block up to 48" (4.5" wide), rigid and flexible. check ebay also. They get $$ which is why I made my own. You can get 4.5" sandpaper also.
https://www.amazon.com/Dura-Block-AF4419-Black-Sanding-Block/dp/B003M5UK14/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=durablock+velcro+block&qid=1561652829&s=gateway&sr=8-4 (https://www.amazon.com/Dura-Block-AF4419-Black-Sanding-Block/dp/B003M5UK14/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=durablock+velcro+block&qid=1561652829&s=gateway&sr=8-4)
https://www.dura-block.com/Hook-Loop-Blocks_c_20.html (https://www.dura-block.com/Hook-Loop-Blocks_c_20.html)
I dont reccomend 4.5" wide paper / blocks unless you have two people to operate the 36 - 48" sanding board (misery whip), made me whine like a little girl.
I made a block with 2 rows of velcro and can use to strips of 2 3/4" paper which is a lot cheaper than the 4.5" paper. It is a beast to use.
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That was very helpful. Thx. Think I'll try it
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Started some more taping between sanding sessions. Any tips for taping outside corners? I taped the fairbody and it kicked my ass. I could not seem to get the tape to lay down tight and flat to both sides of the keel on the knee. I think I’m going to have to try to inject some epoxy in there. Pain in the butt.
I did install my two new wen air filters. It’s amazing what’s in the air even when your not making dust. If you don’t have one or two in your shop I think you should get some. I bought two small ones for a 20x30 shop. Healer than 1 bigger one. The remote controls both units simultaneously so that’s cool
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Started some more taping between sanding sessions. Any tips for taping outside corners? I taped the fairbody and it kicked my ass. I could not seem to get the tape to lay down tight and flat to both sides of the keel on the knee. I think I’m going to have to try to inject some epoxy in there. Pain in the butt.
I did install my two new wen air filters. It’s amazing what’s in the air even when your not making dust. If you don’t have one or two in your shop I think you should get some. I bought two small ones for a 20x30 shop. Healer than 1 bigger one. The remote controls both units simultaneously so that’s cool
The best fiberglass tape for taping seams around hard bends is .... homemade glass tape. You cut it out from standard woven fiberglass cloth. You cut the tape at a 45-deg angle to the weave. When applying the tape to the seam, the yarn crosses the seam at a 45-degree angle. This effectively reduces the sharpness of the bend in the direction of the yarn and the glass lays down a lot easier. With a wheel cutter and metal straight edge (yard stick), you can create your special tape pretty fast. When applying it, you'll have stragglers of glass along the edges on the boat ... ignore that and just get the glass wetted out. Use your carbide scraper after the epoxy cures to slice off and smooth the stragglers.
Brian
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I checked it this morning and it looks better than I let on. I don’t think it’s going to take anything extra. Will gave another look when I get home this weekend.
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I just emptied my second 5 gallon bucket of epoxy. Those big flat panels sure are thirsty. I ordered up a durablock and some paper/mesh. I have one hollow that is taking a fair amount of filler. The scarfs did not take hardly any filler to make them fair.
I finally cut the extra plywood off the transom and the sides of the boat. I couldn’t find a pullsaw so I used my trusty reciprocating tool. This tool is another one I bought for a not boat related project, but has found its way into the boat barn a couple times. I’m not sure how I lived this long without it!
A couple weeks back I posted a hand drawing of a swim platform idea. For swimming/diving and getting back into the boat. It used the stringers as supports. I left the top(away from the water) 3” still on the boat. I figure I can add a 1 1/2” back to the top to get further away from the water. I welcome any thoughts on pursuing this design.
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Looks like that should work for the swim platform. Just to make it pretty, but also help with loads, I'd add some curvy knees on the bottom of the extensions in the bottom corner where they come out of the transom.... more boaty and more stronger :D
Brian
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Good idea. I was concerned about “stuff” too close to the bottom
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That's a cool idea for the platform, I am looking forward to seeing how that turns out. Does your 27 1/2' include the platform or is that going to be in addition?
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The swim deck is in addition to the 27 1/2’ hull. I was hoping I could put a sturdy platform onto what length of stringer I have sticking out with a nice bit of hang over. All this pending the Outboard won’t hit it
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Today I taped my chines. You Kodiak guys have your work cut out for you!
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Good idea. I was concerned about “stuff” too close to the bottom
Stuff on the back of the transom won't affect planing since it's all out of the water when on plane. A couple of knees doesn't add any appreciable weight.
Brian
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I measured my buddies Honda 150 at its widest point lock to lock. It needs 1/2” more than the inside clear. I have decided to knock off the stringers and put a swim platform on the starboard side. Nothing to worry about hitting.
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I measured my buddies Honda 150 at its widest point lock to lock. It needs 1/2” more than the inside clear. I have decided to knock off the stringers and put a swim platform on the starboard side. Nothing to worry about hitting.
Another idea is to put the outboard on a bracket that moves it further aft, and maybe shortening the swim platform and otherwise use your original ideas. This may put the widest swing point just behind the swim platform.
Brian
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That's a good idea. I did look into a jack plate. Not a ton of money considering the entire cost of the build. I may trim off the port stringer and try to save the other. Mounting the kicker to the transom instead of the design I submitted a ove would presumably partially offset the cost of jack plate
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After measuring a couple outboards and some more noodling and one more bonking my noggin I cut the stringers off flush with the transom. I think I will mount my kicker on the transom as well. I intend to put a platform on the starboard side with a tubular kicker/brace to support the aft end from the transom. One great thing about this construction method is the ability to to about anything without too much disruption in the build process. Thanks to all that played along!
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After measuring a couple outboards and some more noodling and one more bonking my noggin I cut the stringers off flush with the transom. I think I will mount my kicker on the transom as well. I intend to put a platform on the starboard side with a tubular kicker/brace to support the aft end from the transom. One great thing about this construction method is the ability to to about anything without too much disruption in the build process. Thanks to all that played along!
Yup, you can bolt a swim platform onto the boat too ... no need to use the stringers. Just follow the instructions in the manual on transom weight, including the down-grading of motor weight for bracket length and weight. Gotta keep the CG in the right window. I know of one guy who didn't, regretted it, fixed it .. that costs extra money and doesn't make anyone happy!
Brian
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I found some time to glass the side panels yesterday. Starting at 7 pm was a bit of a mistake. That’s when temps in the shop started to cool down, so that was a luck coincidence. I can’t believe how much epoxy I have been blasting through! If I get a second wind I might tackle the bottom panels.
I followed(I think) the instruction manual to lay out the rails before I glassed the sides. I have pretty sweet battens and no way was it it going to bend around the front third of the boat. I finally layed on flat and tacked it to the hull to get the bend. It was a rascal
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Hi Brian, got a question. Is the Newport spray rail the day profile as the rock port? It looks like it, but there are a couple dimensions missing on the specific Newport detail. Thanks
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Hi Brian, got a question. Is the Newport spray rail the day profile as the rock port? It looks like it, but there are a couple dimensions missing on the specific Newport detail. Thanks
Yup ... the spray rails for the Rockport and Newport are identical. Looking at Sheet 012 and Part 1 (of 2) Construction Manual, page 107, I'm not sure what measurements are missing? Let me know and I can get them for you and can update the manual or drawing.
Brian
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All dimensions for the rockport are plainly spelled out on 012. Maybe since intended to be straight rather than bent. The two piece spray rail for the Newport looks identical, it is missing two of the dimensions that are included on the detail for the rockport. They do however look identical. If I read closer it may have been made plain in the manual.
I’m not nitpicking, just needed some clarification. Thanks for the reply.
Todd
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All dimensions for the rockport are plainly spelled out on 012. Maybe since intended to be straight rather than bent. The two piece spray rail for the Newport looks identical, it is missing two of the dimensions that are included on the detail for the rockport. They do however look identical. If I read closer it may have been made plain in the manual.
I’m not nitpicking, just needed some clarification. Thanks for the reply.
Todd
BOTH the Rockport and Newport use the same spray rails and dimensions/offsets. The Prince Rupert, however, is different. Instead of having a long curving spray rail from stem to stern, it just has a perfectly level spray rail along the aft third of the boat - this is for style more than anything. Since the spray rail on the Prince Rupert doesn't go all the way forward, it's a good idea to add the aux. spray rails along the chine on that hull (I actually recommend it for all models). The Prince Rupert has instructions in the manual for the offsets. Actually all models need both Sheet 012 and the manual together to get it figured out .... I need to simplify this - it's confusing.
Brian
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I think I might have got my "which boat starts with a R" mixed up. Going from memory while away at work. Either way sounds like we've got it covered.
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I think I might have got my "which boat starts with a R" mixed up. Going from memory while away at work. Either way sounds like we've got it covered.
Perhaps, but you made a valid point on Sheet 012. It shows vertical offsets from the chine, but not the horizontal. You have to read the manual for that. My philosophy is that drawings ought to be as standalone as possible, and the manual should just expand on otherwise-complete information that's in the drawings. I need to update the 'Kodiak v. the Standard' drawing so that the differences are shown better... might as well update Sheet 012 as well.
Brian
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Your the best!
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Your the best!
Hmmmm.... that's not what my wife says?!
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Maybe she.should.start a GA project!
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Maybe she.should.start a GA project!
;D ;D ;D ;D ::) :o ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Hard to find time to do much of anything. Got the bottom nearly glassed. Just need to get a stripe down the keel. Took the night off. Headed to Florence to dive up a dozen dungeness!
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Hard to find time to do much of anything. Got the bottom nearly glassed. Just need to get a stripe down the keel. Took the night off. Headed to Florence to dive up a dozen dungeness!
Are you diving around the docks? We've pulled up some nice ones just sitting in lawn chairs down on the dock (I've got a favorite spot :) )
Brian
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On the north jetty there is a concrete entry/exit where you can walk into the bay. I hear it was part of old cannery. Anyway, from there we swim inland to a 50 foot deep hole. It shallows up as you find your way to the center of the river. Chase them around and come back the same way. There are some old pipes so it’s easy to tell where your at. I have a video of this dive on my YouTube channel.
I only got 5😢. It was fun to get wet. I’m used to about 100 dives a year. Since I started the GA I have dove twice.
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On the north jetty there is a concrete entry/exit where you can walk into the bay. I hear it was part of old cannery. Anyway, from there we swim inland to a 50 foot deep hole. It shallows up as you find your way to the center of the river. Chase them around and come back the same way. There are some old pipes so it’s easy to tell where your at. I have a video of this dive on my YouTube channel.
I only got 5😢. It was fun to get wet. I’m used to about 100 dives a year. Since I started the GA I have dove twice.
5 is more than I have!!
Your GA will be your new dive platform.... :D
bd
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The older I get the harder is to dive. It’s a lot of extra weight and I’m not as flexible as I used to be. Some asshole put my dry suit in the dryer, so there that. I intend to build some sort of swim platform to gain access into the boat from the water. Might be easier to have a nice ladder built that just hangs off the shear. Like a swimming pool ladder for divers to gain entry back into the boat
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This is the longest I have gone without touching the boat. I’m having withdraws. My two fishing buddies each with their own boats gathered 84 albacore between them yesterday. Meanwhile I’m In Detroit of all places. I did get a hat at the Henry Ford museum so far that’s the highlight! I’ll wear it while I’m driving the beater!
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That's called motivation... others out fishing while you're not! When you're boat's done, there will come the day when your buddy's stay home and you go fishing ... 'cuz you get twice the gas mileage and high prices at the pump keep them home!
bd
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I’m hoping to get some more unthickened epoxy on the side of the boat today.
I was disappointed to see how many runs I had after my last batch had cured. More darn sanding. A tad bit more Fairing on the bow and chines and I will call it good.
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Are you working outside now Todd?
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Oh no. Inside until the big reveal. I may move her out to put the cranes-in or blow the dust out for paint, it it is being built inside
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Ah, I see. I was under the impression that you had the hull sitting outside to work on while you were installing your crane this summer...
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Not ready yet!
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I’ve been rolling unthickened epoxy on the hull. I’m having a hell of a time fighting runs. I’ve even come back and rolled it again. On top of that I don’t seem to get much coverage and can still feel the glass weave. Any pointers?
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I’ve been rolling unthickened epoxy on the hull. I’m having a hell of a time fighting runs. I’ve even come back and rolled it again. On top of that I don’t seem to get much coverage and can still feel the glass weave. Any pointers?
There are several possibilities. One is coat thickness. Use a short-nap foam roller - the red barber pole striped "adhesive rollers" or the yellow "adhesive rollers" from System III or Fiberglass Supply in Washington do a great job of applying epoxy and keeping the coat thin. Also, roll on as little as possible with each coat, re-rolling in opposing directions to get each new patch of epoxy to cover as much region as possible, then use a foam brush to tip off the coat (remove bubbles and smooth the epoxy). If that doesn't work, then viscosity of the epoxy may be the issue. Brand of epoxy and temperature are the main factors here. For example, I know System III works well in all temperatures, RAKA is a little thicker if I recall and may make a better choice ... Aero Marine is on the thin side and may tend to run. You may also experiment with mixing really well, letting the mixed epoxy sit in the cup for 3 or 4 minutes, then mix again and pour into your roller pan. This will allow the epoxy to just begin to set a bit while it's in the cup, then when it's poured into the roller pan it then has a lot of surface area and cools off. Hopefully the result is that after rolling it on the boat, it'll cure quicker and run less. Another factor with viscosity is the ambient temperature - if the weather is warm, the epoxy will be thinner and more likely to run. You may want to wait until it's dark outside and cooling off before you coat the boat much. Or get up early enough in the morning to get a coat on and curing to the sticky 'green' stage before the day starts warming up. FINALLY, the cure-all for runs is the use of a sharp carbide scraper - Don't try to fix them with sanding. The scraper will take the runs off flush with the remaining epoxy where sand paper will sand the thin epoxy around the run just as fast as the run, resulting in the removal of your epoxy coat around the runs .... bad juju.... :)
Let us know how it goes....
Brian
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I rolled on thin and went all over the panel and and knocked the bubbles down with a foam brush. It looked great for several hours then started to sag in spots again. The bottom looks great and is about Ready for graphite. At best the sides are probably a 25’ finish. I hope I can do better than what I’ve got now. I should put one more coat of epoxy on the sides. I don’t want to sand it all off. I se what damage I can do with the scraper maybe tomorrow after it hardens up
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Maybe as a help to others, you might post the brand and product of epoxy that you are using? And what temperatures are you working in? Worst comes to worse, just keep scraping the runs smooth with a carbide scraper and adding more thin layers until the weave is filled. In any case, it sounds like either your epoxy viscosity is low or the hardener's not kicking fast enough. Note that you CAN ever-so-slightly round up on hardener, but if the brand offers a higher speed hardener (designed for cooler shop temperatures), you might consider getting some until the more vertical epoxy coatings are done.
Brian
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It’s ebond. 80 degrees and heating up. 60 minute hardener. I have some 30 left. Maybe I will try it next
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Todd,
I had trouble with runs also, I am nor sure what rollers you are using but try the cigar high density foam rollers and press down firmly when rolling, you will be surprised how far you can go.
On my sides I added a little bit of silica which helped a bunch.
No tipping required.
I have used different brands cigar rollers but these are firmer:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/WHIZZ-Cabinet-and-Door-6-Pack-4-in-Mini-Foam-Paint-Roller-Cover/3026938 (https://www.lowes.com/pd/WHIZZ-Cabinet-and-Door-6-Pack-4-in-Mini-Foam-Paint-Roller-Cover/3026938)
Bob
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It’s ebond. 80 degrees and heating up. 60 minute hardener. I have some 30 left. Maybe I will try it next
Yeah ... your hardener is a bit slow. You should aim for 20-30 minute stuff for warm weather and just mix and apply smaller batches at a time. Once the epoxy is rolled thin on the boat, it's got a huge surface area to dissipate heat while it cures and it'll cure slowly compared to when it's in a roller pan. Get it on the boat fast, then take your time to roll it as thinly as possible.
Brian
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It wasn’t quite as bad as I thought. It appears that I am seeing small flaws under this new coat of epoxy. When it is shiny it has great depth. It throws off the eye. With a little roughing up it looks like a rough orange peal. I’m shooting for a 2-3’ foot finish. All that said I do have a question
Can I put the final coats of graphite epoxy directly over the fairing compound and continue with light fairing between coats? I am using white glass bubbles not the purple. I’m not sure if I should expect it to completely cover or not
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Todd,
I had trouble with runs also, I am nor sure what rollers you are using but try the cigar high density foam rollers and press down firmly when rolling, you will be surprised how far you can go.
On my sides I added a little bit of silica which helped a bunch.
No tipping required.
I have used different brands cigar rollers but these are firmer:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/WHIZZ-Cabinet-and-Door-6-Pack-4-in-Mini-Foam-Paint-Roller-Cover/3026938 (https://www.lowes.com/pd/WHIZZ-Cabinet-and-Door-6-Pack-4-in-Mini-Foam-Paint-Roller-Cover/3026938)
Bob
When I say tip, all I am doing is smoothing out the bubbles. I am using grey 1/4” Knapp adhesive rollers. I think I will try adding some cab-o-sil to my next batch and use the 30 minute stuff
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Todd,
I though I replied from work but this caught my attention:
" I am using grey 1/4” Knapp adhesive rollers"
Sorry for the bluntness, but ditch the 1/4" roller, get the whizz 1/8" foam Brian is suggesting or (my opinion) get some cigar 4" cigar high density foam rollers I suggested.
Not the ones for latex.
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No worries is that the one you put the link to above?
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yes
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Questions on the spray rails??
1) at 5” aft of bow where spray rail starts, Will a screw really reach the stem?
2) do the auxiliary spray rails start at the same point? Or should they join each other meeting at the fairbody?
Thanks, I’m anxious to cut something again. Been working more hours than I like and my boat building is falling behind. Now it’s archery season and the build will further slow.
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Questions on the spray rails??
1) at 5” aft of bow where spray rail starts, Will a screw really reach the stem?
2) do the auxiliary spray rails start at the same point? Or should they join each other meeting at the fairbody?
Thanks, I’m anxious to cut something again. Been working more hours than I like and my boat building is falling behind. Now it’s archery season and the build will further slow.
- Yes, you can use the graphite epoxy for fill coats on top of faired fiberglass. Most prefer to just roll on clear epoxy for a couple of fill coats (faster, no mixing), then when reasonably smooth, light sand and finish with 2 coats of graphite epoxy.
- Without looking, I can't remember how far back the spray rail starts from the bow, but if it's far enough back for the screw to miss the stem .... move it forward
- Both auxiliary spray rails and main spray rails are definitely a "close enough is close enough" kind of deal. If you've got them going right to the bow, or stopping several inches short .... it's fine. No need for overthinking on either of these. Spray doesn't really climb up the hull that far forward.
Hope that helps!
Brian
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Yup it helps. Just looking for clarification. Then manual does call for 5” aft of bow. I’m away at work for the week so I couldn’t do any measuring. I will put a nice taper as directed on the main to avoid interfering with any bow roller. Thanks
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Yup it helps. Just looking for clarification. Then manual does call for 5” aft of bow. I’m away at work for the week so I couldn’t do any measuring. I will put a nice taper as directed on the main to avoid interfering with any bow roller. Thanks
I'll double check the CAD model and see if 5" is bad advice or not.... :)
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Ok. Either way sounds like I'm aiming for the stem. Thx
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Ok. Either way sounds like I'm aiming for the stem. Thx
Yeah ... the whole point is that if the splash rail gets dinged up and not repaired, like if you have a hidden ding that violates the epoxy and the boat's kept outside and wet (rain or dock), the splash rail may absorb water and swell up ... popping the end off the boat as the wood tries to straighten. Saw that happen on a non-GA skiff once. The heavy screw that goes into deep wood is your back-up. I think it's the only metal that I suggest putting in the boat too (not counting finishing with fittings and gear etc).
Brian
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Groovy. Got another one. I found the weight of the finished boat in the plans, but couldn’t find the weight of the hull for the flip. For some reason I had 900-1000 pounds stuck in my head. Do you know how close that number is?
Thx
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Groovy. Got another one. I found the weight of the finished boat in the plans, but couldn’t find the weight of the hull for the flip. For some reason I had 900-1000 pounds stuck in my head. Do you know how close that number is?
Thx
That's about right. I can look it up in the CG spreadsheet this weekend....
Brian
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Ok. I’m still a couple weeks maybe longer. Considering rolling the dice on using the boat barn structure for the flip. If I spread the load out I may be fine. I think I over doubled the strength of the rafters by sistering the scissor trusses to the exit rafters Slow and easy we’ll see
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Ok. I’m still a couple weeks maybe longer. Considering rolling the dice on using the boat barn structure for the flip. If I spread the load out I may be fine. I think I over doubled the strength of the rafters by sistering the scissor trusses to the exit rafters Slow and easy we’ll see
I've seen people use a couple of chain hoists and do it all by themselves ... I still like the beer and pizza party with a dozen of your friends and rolling the boat over in the front yard ... everyone's excited and having fun, and you're the center of attention ... your baby's coming to fruition ... people love it! It's a major milestone worthy of lots of photos and group photos :D
Brian
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Remember that trusses are designed to hold weight from the top compressing down. So if you pull weight on the bottom cord of a truss you are pulling on the weakest part. If possible pull weight from the top of the truss, if not able to do that put a couple doubled up 2x6 or 2x8 crossways through the bottom cord to distribute the weight on several trusses...... wear a helmet just in case.😝😝😝😝
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I figure if I can get it hovering off the jig and set it down I’m good to go. Will definitely not try the bottom cord or lifting from one truss
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I stand corrected. Spray rails start 4” aft the stem and 4” ahead the stern. I had said 5 “ in a earlier post
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Ok, so used the profile on sheet 12 for the aux spray rails. Placing them against the hull adjacent to the chines they turn up or make the flat a v shape as they are built, since the sides are not square to chine. In the manual they say that their job is to effectively widen the chine flat. Should they be flush with the chines? Or Should there be a slight step from the chine flat to the aux spray rails? I looked on page 119 but still not sure.
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Ok, so used the profile on sheet 12 for the aux spray rails. Placing them against the hull adjacent to the chines they turn up or make the flat a v shape as they are built, since the sides are not square to chine. In the manual they say that their job is to effectively widen the chine flat. Should they be flush with the chines? Or Should there be a slight step from the chine flat to the aux spray rails? I looked on page 119 but still not sure.
Good question ... In looking at the manual, a little more info would be helpful. Perhaps the following snip of a drawing helps explain how closely the auxiliary spray rails mount to the chine and it's rounded corner. In a nutshell, I like to mount the aux rail as low as I can, as long as it doesn't overlap the rounded corner of the chine too far ... noting that epoxy will fill small gaps along the bottom of the aux rail if it overlaps too far (it's not critical).
Brian
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I stand corrected. Spray rails start 4” aft the stem and 4” ahead the stern. I had said 5 “ in a earlier post
Actually .... you spotted a weak point in the plans. In looking at the stem dimensions (with side panels on), you'd have to start the spray rail a lot closer to the bow than I specified. I need to correct this in the plans. OTOH, if you want to start 4 or 5 inches back from the stem (for aesthetic reasons), just put a block of wood or a second layer of ply on the inside of the hull where the screw goes and use a screw short enough to stay inside wood. The possible downsides are that the interior block of wood may conflict with the bunk installation (easy enough to work around) and/or may complicate lining the inside of the hull with adhesive-back carpet like material ... some people do that to avoid condensation on the inside of the hull while sleeping and it adds insulation to the boat.
Looks like about 2" or so:
PS: A screw is just one option, and it's an optional option. The curves on the f'w'd third of a GA are not extreme, so perhaps the previously discussed risks are very low. Besides skipping the f'w'd screw entirely, you could provide some additional backup/strength by adding layer of glass over the forward end of the spray rail - you'd have to fair-in the glass edges.
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Groovy. Got another one. I found the weight of the finished boat in the plans, but couldn’t find the weight of the hull for the flip. For some reason I had 900-1000 pounds stuck in my head. Do you know how close that number is?
Thx
That's about right. I can look it up in the CG spreadsheet this weekend....
Brian
OK ... I looked it up. The hull, at time of turnover, weighs about 900 lbs for a 26' boat ... and about 1000 lbs for a 30' Kodiak version. Hope that helps. :)
Brian
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Hope you didnt stay up too late doing homework, thanks!
After I posted my apologies for giving the wrong dimensions in the forum I found the 5” number again? FWIW I moved the spray rail closer to the stem so I can grab it with a screw. They are cut and scarfed.
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Hope you didnt stay up too late doing homework, thanks!
After I posted my apologies for giving the wrong dimensions in the forum I found the 5” number again? FWIW I moved the spray rail closer to the stem so I can grab it with a screw. They are cut and scarfed.
Yeah ... It looks like the text in the manual has some inconsistencies here :(
Brian
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There’s bound to be. There’s a lot of stuff I. There!
Did one main spray rail today. It was a rascal. It doesn’t look quite right at the bow, but it’s on there and it ain’t coming off. Looks nice viewed from aft. Those curves aft of the bow make that wood do stuff it’s not comfortable with. It’s all screwed down with big fillets.
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There’s bound to be. There’s a lot of stuff I. There!
Did one main spray rail today. It was a rascal. It doesn’t look quite right at the bow, but it’s on there and it ain’t coming off. Looks nice viewed from aft. Those curves aft of the bow make that wood do stuff it’s not comfortable with. It’s all screwed down with big fillets.
The technical term for when wood is both bent and twisted is 'torture' ... for a reason. It works best if you use natural wood such as mahogany rather than plywood, and if the wood's too stiff and doesn't want to comply, then building the rails up in 2 layers instead of just one helps. So far, nobody's had to use steam bending to get them on. Epoxy is your friend....
Brian
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Any builders reading this? Did you glass your spray rails? Why? Why not? I intended to but I’m not sold. Your .02 please
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Any builders reading this? Did you glass your spray rails? Why? Why not? I intended to but I’m not sold. Your .02 please
2¢ is about all my view is probably worth since I haven't actually gotten my project wet yet, but I am glassing my spray rails as we speak. I debated it a bit, it's a pain in the butt, but at the end of the day they are protruding from the hull and will probably rub against things here and there, or get dinged, and less risk of intrusion and/or abrasion resistance at the end of the day will probably make me sleep better. It likely wouldn't be hard to cut them off and put new ones on if they were to ever get compromised (relative) but it's just one more thing that could lead to time off the water. I am glassing them with 10oz just because I had some extra laying around in full boat length and just cut some tape out of it to width. Looking back I kind of wish I went 6oz for an easier time, 10oz didn't seem to want to follow small curves very well so I have been going back and injecting epoxy into voids a bit. It's been a more time consuming process than I had hoped but I am almost done so... w/e.
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I couldn’t get 6 oz tape to wrap the aux rails. Tried off boat. I think I can do the main with 6 or 8” tape. I couldn’t find any lighter tape at fiberglass supply. My former contact there is no longer with them.
Any tips for glassing small parts?
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Hey Todd, I did glass mine with tape. Not hard to do but took a lot of time, mostly filling the fibers with epoxy. Lots of coats. After my flip I can see that they still need some work. Good luck.
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I couldn’t get 6 oz tape to wrap the aux rails. Tried off boat. I think I can do the main with 6 or 8” tape. I couldn’t find any lighter tape at fiberglass supply. My former contact there is no longer with them.
Any tips for glassing small parts?
I used 10oz and they were a pain but I got them done fairly well (the aux rails), the second one better than the first. The problem I was mostly running into was the glass overhanging resting on the sawhorse wanting to push the rest of the glass off the piece at that point. I tried to trim it as close as I could to fit and then just sort of kept on pushing it in place until it stayed. The other thing that works better for me glassing small stuff is using a chip brush to wet out the glass. I oversaturate it right on the piece and use the brush to push it into place until it stays there, and then kind of touch up less wet parts behind where I am currently working as I go. It's tedious but it seems to work ok.
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Any builders reading this? Did you glass your spray rails? Why? Why not? I intended to but I’m not sold. Your .02 please
I didn't on my Tolman, but wish I had as just this year I had to completely remove and replace one of them due to rot. Only a tiny breach in the epoxy coating caused it to suck up water like a straw over time.
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Any builders reading this? Did you glass your spray rails? Why? Why not? I intended to but I’m not sold. Your .02 please
I didn't on my Tolman, but wish I had as just this year I had to completely remove and replace one of them due to rot. Only a tiny breach in the epoxy coating caused it to suck up water like a straw over time.
Just out of curiosity, how many years did it last before that was required?
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Brian once suggested making tape out of cloth cut 45* to the edge of the cloth. That allows to tape to bend at NOT right angles. I have some 6oz cloth, but it sure is ragged once it’s cut and seems very wasteful if you need 25’ strips. Also adds several lap joints in the tape lay up. I think I will try to round over the edges a bit more and try to pin the tape down with some tiny finish nails. Not sure it’ll work.
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Brian once suggested making tape out of cloth cut 45* to the edge of the cloth. That allows to tape to bend at NOT right angles. I have some 6oz cloth, but it sure is ragged once it’s cut and seems very wasteful if you need 25’ strips. Also adds several lap joints in the tape lay up. I think I will try to round over the edges a bit more and try to pin the tape down with some tiny finish nails. Not sure it’ll work.
True ... woven cloth with the yarn running at 45 degrees (cut your own tape diagonally from wide cloth) bends over sharper curves more easily. Yup .... there are trade-offs.... like hairy stragglers all along the edge of the tape. MY solution is to ignore them ... don't sweat it. It is FAR easier to just let the tape cure, stragglers and all, then just after curing you use a sharp carbide scraper to remove all the goobies and stragglers, and taper the edge of the cloth to the hull. Don't try to fix things when the epoxy is wet .... takes time and never works well.
Brian
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Soooo, I’ve been struggling with the spray rails. I checked the plans many times. I’m using the right numbers. I don’t like the way they fit the boat. Enough so I ripped it off to start over. Much work and not fun I might add. I don’t know if it’s perspective and the distance as viewed said perspective?
At about the first 60” station aft of the bow the spray rail appears to dive toward the chine and then break away as it gets closer to the stem.
Last Night I laid them out again and played with a string and moved it around at the stem. To my eye 3” lower at the stem looked like it mirrored the chine flats better. Without the snake as I described earlier. I must have looked at 50 similar boats. They all seemed to mirror the chines or have a nice swoop up and away from the chines. Idk, my boat I can do what I want right! I guess if I had it to do over again I would do a dry run!!!
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Soooo, I’ve been struggling with the spray rails. I checked the plans many times. I’m using the right numbers. I don’t like the way they fit the boat. Enough so I ripped it off to start over. Much work and not fun I might add. I don’t know if it’s perspective and the distance as viewed said perspective?
At about the first 60” station aft of the bow the spray rail appears to dive toward the chine and then break away as it gets closer to the stem.
Last Night I laid them out again and played with a string and moved it around at the stem. To my eye 3” lower at the stem looked like it mirrored the chine flats better. Without the snake as I described earlier. I must have looked at 50 similar boats. They all seemed to mirror the chines or have a nice swoop up and away from the chines. Idk, my boat I can do what I want right! I guess if I had it to do over again I would do a dry run!!!
Hmmmm.... I need to double check the drawing. The spray rail IS supposed to follow the chine, so I'm puzzled on the measurements in the drawing. I'll get back to you soon on this. Note that if you allow the spray rails to gently curve upward (away from water) as they travel to the stern, then it makes it more forgiving in how the boat looks when sitting a little stern low due to loading ... the 'smile' shape is an old boat building trick.
More later.... Thanks for the heads up
Brian
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Groovy. I’m sure the numbers are right. It might be my eyes playing tricks on me. Upside down boat. Can’t get the whole picture inside The building. No one else unhappy. Gotta be me. FWIW. I did measure with a drywall square perpendicular to the chines as prescribed
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Todd, I feel like there is a bit of a hump on mine too, but like you I can't really get a good enough look at this point to know if I am happy or unhappy. I think they will look ok, they do approach the chines on mine a bit as they push forward to the bow, but not to a degree that I think they look that funky. At this point I am just kind of trying to get them faired in as well as I can and get things flipping, aka moving on. Ripping them off sounds lousy tho. Now I am kind of anxiously awaiting a correction from Brian that I will then have to figure out if I need to fix or not. :)
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I did put a string at 19” from the chines at the stem and ran it. Ack through the rest of the marks. BY my eye it more closely followed the chines without crowding them and them flaring away. I used (or attempted to) a batten as suggested. It was impossible to get that thing to bend 10 directions at the same time. I divided up the stations and shrunk the math and compared it to my original marks. They were pretty close. If Brian comes back with the same numbers, I think he will. I will push the bow end away from the chines and rock on. After I rebuild the spray rails
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Thanks for your patience guys ... probably won't get a chance to take a nice peaceful look into the CAD model until the morning....
Brian
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I'm a little reluctant to comment here, having not built a GA, and therefore could be considered a bystander/non-combatant. ???
To my eye, virtually all Tolmans and GA's end up with aux. rail positions that aren't quite "in harmony" with the shear and chine in the final pictures, and all builds seem to have a struggle at this point.
Why? I suspect that it is due to the fact that the shear tends to get "customized", and the chine location has a bit of float to it's position. Also, the water-line and bottom paint come into play with the esthetics.
So, attempting to define an exact location in the plans that will please everyone, will likely prove to be an exercise in futility.:o
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I'm a little reluctant to comment here, having not built a GA, and therefore could be considered a bystander/non-combatant. ???
To my eye, virtually all Tolmans and GA's end up with aux. rail positions that aren't quite "in harmony" with the shear and chine in the final pictures, and all builds seem to have a struggle at this point.
Why? I suspect that it is due to the fact that the shear tends to get "customized", and the chine location has a bit of float to it's position. Also, the water-line and bottom paint come into play with the esthetics.
So, attempting to define an exact location in the plans that will please everyone, will likely prove to be an exercise in futility.:o
Even I don't like my original spray rail locations ... now preferring some up-sweep towards the stern. The problem with spray rails that follow the chine (the most common example on the water) is that when the boat's floating level, the spray rails have a downward slope towards the stern that makes the boat look like it's sitting stern low when it's not.
Brian
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I measured my installation of them, and am about an inch and a half less distance between the chine and the spray rail at the bow perpendicular to the chine vs about 60-80" aft of the bow, so they do curve back (at least relatively) towards the chine. I see what you are talking about Todd, and looking at 19" measured from the chine up the bow stem seems like it's more harmonious with the rest of the spray rail. That said, I think it will look sort of interesting and unique, so I think I will probably keep them there regardless of what Brian's CAD model says (thanks for looking that up Brian) especially since the alternative sounds really really painful. A paint job on an old p51 comes to mind...
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That is sexy! I like the top pic too. The bottom attachment was a oops
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Brian. I will do the banana spray rail. Bow at 19” below chine with a roll of the dice. How about 1 1-4” taper from the last 60” station to the stern. What’s your .02?
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Brian. I will do the banana spray rail. Bow at 19” below chine with a roll of the dice. How about 1 1-4” taper from the last 60” station to the stern. What’s your .02?
I'm looking into the CAD stuff now ... it's tricky because when you build the boat, you measure along the surface and the change in flare along the sides makes the measurements inconsistent ... it's trigonometry. You want a visually-correct line (side view) on a surface that's continuously changing. I do like the higher sweep upward towards the bow, and I do like the 1-1/4 inch upward sweep at the stern. I agree that this is the best looking spray rail and will make the 'looks' more forgiving of different boat loadings.
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PROPOSAL - How do you like the spray rail line below? I raised it up towards the bow and also at the stern .... I think the amount at the bow looks sporty? Feedback welcome ... I want to update the plans and add a Sheet 012Alt that has a 'smile' or 'banana' splashrail. The amount raised at the stern is 1-1/4", which I agree is just right.
Let me know what you guys think ... if it's cool, then I'll slice up the 3D CAD model with it and measure the offsets... and create the new drawing.
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I’m in. Looks delicious. I agree it’s difficult on the boat. But easy in 2D. The CAD pics in red above. Can you give a brief explanation of each pic. The red on red is hard for me to see what I’m looking at
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Sorry about the red on red. It's the outer surface of the hull itself and all surfaces are on the same CAD layer ... There is one blue main stringer and the bow stem (also blue) in the pictures as well.
The reason for posting the pics is to show the curves from the side, but how they are different on the actual hull ... because the side flare varies continuously.
bd
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Curios? What number did you assign to the bow end from the chines?
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Personally, I prefer the shape of the "red on red" of the two examples shown.
To my eye, the rail can't be "more curved" than the shear - ie: it shouldn't converge on the sheer as the rail approaches the bow and stern. But you are also fighting the increasing flare as you approach the bow, which is creating a bit of an optical illusion in the 2d sideview....
PS. json - I believe that is a P40 - P51's had their air intake scoop for the radiator near the rear of the wing, the stance of the main gear was wider, and folded towards the center, not back.
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PS. json - I believe that is a P40 - P51's had their air intake scoop for the radiator near the rear of the wing, the stance of the main gear was wider, and folded towards the center, not back.
You know, I was wondering when I posted it, so TIL the diff between a p40 and p51. :)
I think I am more a fan of the red model, hopefully my spray rails look similar enough. The upsweep looks good, but looking at the cad model and reading your feedback Brian I see that the flare is what's causing the discrepancy in that distance. Either way both look pretty legit IMHO, so I really have no opinion about which is better or worse. I am hoping my hull floats regardless of which one I put in place.
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PS. json - I believe that is a P40 - P51's had their air intake scoop for the radiator near the rear of the wing, the stance of the main gear was wider, and folded towards the center, not back.
You know, I was wondering when I posted it, so TIL the diff between a p40 and p51. :)
I think I am more a fan of the red model, hopefully my spray rails look similar enough. The upsweep looks good, but looking at the cad model and reading your feedback Brian I see that the flare is what's causing the discrepancy in that distance. Either way both look pretty legit IMHO, so I really have no opinion about which is better or worse. I am hoping my hull floats regardless of which one I put in place.
Haha. It’ll float. I have other motives at play as far as my build goes. I also added 4” to the side panels and 4 1/2” to the stringers. So proportionally mine still looks different. It’s a smiley spray rail for me. What is it about bananas and boats? Brian we should only speak of the smiley instead of b word!
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I fought the fight for the last time. Did the smiley. Even at 19” from the chines I wasn’t happy. I went back about 6’ and let it loose then just nailed it back down. I’m guessing in the 22” range. It still looked pinched pinched to the chine about 5-7’ aft of the bow. I massaged the whole thing around by eye. After it all I’m pretty close to 29” off the shear until about the last 6-7’. It’s not as cool as the 2D above but I like it a little better.
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Good point on the b-word! Although I've caught plenty of fish with a 'b' in my lunch.... :)
One thing to keep in mind too,, when looking at profile views from the CAD model is that the real boat on the water will appear to have less up-sweep at the bow and along the spray rail. This is because as you view the boat from the side, in person, the side of the boat is closer to you than the bow. The slight difference in perspective makes the sheer line and spray rail look less than they are. I've seen boats with an upward sheer in the CAD view, but they looked like they had a flat sheer in person. Something to keep in mind.
Brian
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I love that! Too late for me but I would do it.
PROPOSAL - How do you like the spray rail line below? I raised it up towards the bow and also at the stern .... I think the amount at the bow looks sporty? Feedback welcome ... I want to update the plans and add a Sheet 012Alt that has a 'smile' or 'banana' splashrail. The amount raised at the stern is 1-1/4", which I agree is just right.
Let me know what you guys think ... if it's cool, then I'll slice up the 3D CAD model with it and measure the offsets... and create the new drawing.
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Good point on the b-word! Although I've caught plenty of fish with a 'b' in my lunch.... :)
One thing to keep in mind too,, when looking at profile views from the CAD model is that the real boat on the water will appear to have less up-sweep at the bow and along the spray rail. This is because as you view the boat from the side, in person, the side of the boat is closer to you than the bow. The slight difference in perspective makes the sheer line and spray rail look less than they are. I've seen boats with an upward sheer in the CAD view, but they looked like they had a flat sheer in person. Something to keep in mind.
Brian
I see what you mean. Perfect example. Look at the Pau Hauna on the website. They rails in that perspective look straight
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Brian’s tip for cutting cloth on a 45 to make tape worked like a champ! I put 18 ounces of tape on my auxiliary spray rails with out any trouble at all. It’s a pearl! Thanks
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Sweet! And tough as nails now too!
Brian
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FYI - I just uploaded Sheet 012Alt, an alternative spray rail shape and location. This version has good up-sweep towards the bow for a more sporty look, and at the stern end, the rails sweep upward 1-1/2" from their lowest location. This 'smile' shaped spray rail helps the boat look better on the water even if loaded a little heavy in the stern... old boat painters trick :)
Brian
PS: Scroll waaaay to the bottom of the file list on our website's Downloads page. I need to fix the sort order, but for now, the new file appears down at the bottom of the list.
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Brian:
Are those dimensions given the "true length" dimension, or is it the dimension in the plane of the drawing - essentially the TL dimension x the cosine of the flare angle ?
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I hope those are true length dimensions, otherwise mine is way off haha...
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It will be interesting to see how close I am to the numbers above. I think I am very close. Will report back after my vacation.
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Brian:
Are those dimensions given the "true length" dimension, or is it the dimension in the plane of the drawing - essentially the TL dimension x the cosine of the flare angle ?
These measurements are on the surface of the boat ... you lay a square or framing angle on the side of the boat and measure along the surface from the chine flat downward. In CAD, the profile (shown) is drawn, then used to create a surface that you use to split/slice the side panel into two, then you perform a developable unrolling of the panel between the splash rail and the chine .... and take dimensions off that. Long way around to block to just saying "Measure down from the chine flat ... on the SURFACE of the boat ... C'est facile!
Brian
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Hey, that sounds like what is in the instructions
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Hey, that sounds like what is in the instructions
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :o ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Hey Todd, I did glass mine with tape. Not hard to do but took a lot of time, mostly filling the fibers with epoxy. Lots of coats. After my flip I can see that they still need some work. Good luck.
I glassed mine with 6 oz. they held up pretty good. Ive been reading Ruele Parkers book and he was a huge fan of using xynole-polyester fabric to cover his boats.... as he said it made sharp turns much easier than e glass. I suspect the rails would be a good place to use that. He talks about it extensively in his book. my buddy in NJ is building his 29.5 sea bright skiff -
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Hey Todd, I did glass mine with tape. Not hard to do but took a lot of time, mostly filling the fibers with epoxy. Lots of coats. After my flip I can see that they still need some work. Good luck.
I glassed mine with 6 oz. they held up pretty good. Ive been reading Ruele Parkers book and he was a huge fan of using xynole-polyester fabric to cover his boats.... as he said it made sharp turns much easier than e glass. I suspect the rails would be a good place to use that. He talks about it extensively in his book. my buddy in NJ is building his 29.5 sea bright skiff -
Agree. Hopefully someone will try the xynole-polyester fabric and let us know how well it tended to stay in place, not bubbling or floating off the wood (it's less dense than epoxy resin). With proper technique, good yet light materials such as Kevlar (Aramid) can be used.
Brian
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Brian, Lyle from NJ is building Parkers 29 Sea Bright Skiff in lapstrake plywood. He used it and ust posted pictures. He said it wasn't bad at all. Did you see the pics. Its amazing actually.
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Kyles boat in NJ..... (Reuel Parker Sea Bright 29')
by the way Reuel said you can build this as ab OB version and in strip plank versus lapstrake ply.... 100 hp max and put the big fuel cell where the IB would go...
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I finally got all the spray rails on the boat,1 half glassed. These buggers really seem to have slowed the build down. Hope to have them faired and ready for bottom treatment with a flip before years end. We shall see. I did my own layout/offsets to come close to the new smiley rail design. It more closely follows the chine flats with a small upsweep at each end.
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I finally got all the spray rails on the boat,1 half glassed. These buggers really seem to have slowed the build down. Hope to have them faired and ready for bottom treatment with a flip before years end. We shall see. I did my own layout/offsets to come close to the new smiley rail design. It more closely follows the chine flats with a small upsweep at each end.
Those spray rails are long and need to be installed carefully from one end to the other (start at the BOW end ... use a partner while you temp-bolt along the way). Nice when it's done.
I like your spray rail shape without having seen it! The upsweep on both ends is a great idea.... common for the boot stripe (or line where the black graphite meets the side panel paint) as well... when you get that far.
Brian
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Smiley spray rails. Can’t take much of a shot of the bow as I can’t see it unless I’m two feet away Due to size of building and the shape of the bow makes it disappear the further back I get.
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Sweet! Did you glass over them? Just curious.... :D
Brian
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Yes, two layers of 10 ounce tape
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The front
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Nice .. Looks like you did a great job on the fairing too. Looks like glass minispheres fairing compound - my preference. It feathers out and is smoother than phenolic microballoons.
Brian
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I put more fairing compound on the floor than on the boat. Put it on , sand it off!
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I put more fairing compound on the floor than on the boat. Put it on , sand it off!
What did you use for the sanding? A random orbital, orbital ... or a long board?
bd
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I used a random orbit and long board. The ro more on straight tape lines on the sides. Long board on the bottom and boe and curvy stuff. Long board hurts me.
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Todd,
looks bulletproof! I can still feel the pain from longboarding!
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Thanks. I need to scrape some runs I missed and coat the sides again after fairing the spray rails. I probably made extra work for myself doing everything the way I did. Oh well
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Got the bottom paint done. Spent all day cleaning, mopping, blowing out the dust. Shops sparkly clean!Not sure I like it. Hope it’s ok. A little not a smooth as I wanted it. I will try to post pics to the bottom paint thread.
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Looking good Todd, looks like you will be flipping soon!
I started using glass mini-spheres and I wish I had used it sooner, sands way easier..
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Turned it over after Everyone left last night.
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Turned it over after Everyone left last night.
Congratulations on this MAJOR milestone! :D :D :D :D :D I agree on the bottom finish ... K.I.S.S. ... movin' on!
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WTG Todd! That's got to feel great!
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Congrats, big day.
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Way to go and congrats on the flip.
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Thanks all!
I finally finished the last of the marathon filleting and taping. Holy cow that’s a lot of work. As I plan my next push(two weeks off). I’m taking stock of my supplies.
Turned hull, all seams taped per plan and I have used about 44 gallons of epoxy and I’m still not done fussing with the sides and tops of the spray rails. As you guys look back how much did you use to get to this point? I’m guessing several gallons ended up as dust on the floor. I’m sure I could do better on another one.
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I am finishing up those seams as well, it's seriously so much work, gotta keep the eye on the prize. I think I have used 25 gallons or so to this point. 44 gallons seems like a lot. The exterior coats I did were all pretty thin though, but I did a lot of them. I feel like these interior seams have really used up a ton of glue (especially the stringer ones). I think I read an estimate that the whole boat would use ballpark 60 gallons somewhere, but not sure where that was.
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I don't remember where it's stated, but the 60 gallon number is about right if you use epoxy efficiently. Coats should always be as thin as possible, with the possible exception of the area under the decks, and you should prefer multiple thin coats over fewer heavier coats ... like painting.
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I think I messed up on my epoxy count. After thinking about it I think I’m about 29 gallons into 30.
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I built the crash chamber today. I used the jiggle stick method instead of the tracing method spelled out in the manual. It’s quick and pretty straight forward
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Nice neat work .. look at how closely and cleanly the parts fit!
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There were a few minor adjustments made. Especially where there were layers of tape that would not allow the bulkhead to sit down against the hull. Fairly quick work
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I agree, nice clean work. My neck is getting sore looking at photos sideways though.
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I don’t get it? I don’t know if it’s me or something in Brian’s settings. I don’t have a computer so I do all of this from my phone. When I was at work I looked at the forum and all my junk is sideways? Maybe I will look and see which way everything rotates and spin it the other way before I post it.
Rbob are you using a computer or a mobile device to view?
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Nice job. It’s fun getting going on the inside.
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I don’t get it? I don’t know if it’s me or something in Brian’s settings. I don’t have a computer so I do all of this from my phone. When I was at work I looked at the forum and all my junk is sideways? Maybe I will look and see which way everything rotates and spin it the other way before I post it.
Rbob are you using a computer or a mobile device to view?
It's a weirdness of the Simple Machines Forums. It seems like if an image is too big or something, it displays sideways. When I save them to disk and open with a photo editor, they come out right side up. For the forums, I have very high image size limits, but they probably display best if resized down to 1024 pixels on the larger dimension. In any case, I haven't explored it too much but I don't believe it's a settings issue.
bd
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As I look ahead I see the opening in the aft cuddy bulkhead is 44 inches. When I look at my tape measure at 44 inches I don't think I could get through it. Any one build this and decide it was too small or is it just right? I have already thought of a couple ways around it.
BTW building without epoxy sucks!!! Ebond shipped it out as they always do. Thier freight companies are inept. The last batch got lost, passed off to a third party carrier and delivered to NOT me, pita. This most recent order made it to within a hour of my doorstep and then went back to Atlanta. Anyway, cuddy opening big enough?
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Todd, I thought the same thing. I am 230. 5’11’ and after I installed mine I found it was good. I figure I am not going to be in and out of the cuddy much but there is plenty of room to get in there.
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Instead of the standard cuddy door, you can notch into the cuddy roof if you want, and that makes it easier to get in. Plus, even with the standard design, you do get used to it. If you notch into the cuddy roof (inside the windshield, obviously), it makes it harder to figure out how to close the cuddy. Personally, I'd do that and keep it open BUT keep in mind that it's nice to be able to close it and lock it up while the boat is left in a slip or even on a trailer in some parking lot.
Brian
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I don’t get it? I don’t know if it’s me or something in Brian’s settings. I don’t have a computer so I do all of this from my phone. When I was at work I looked at the forum and all my junk is sideways? Maybe I will look and see which way everything rotates and spin it the other way before I post it.
Rbob are you using a computer or a mobile device to view?
It's a weirdness of the Simple Machines Forums. It seems like if an image is too big or something, it displays sideways. When I save them to disk and open with a photo editor, they come out right side up. For the forums, I have very high image size limits, but they probably display best if resized down to 1024 pixels on the larger dimension. In any case, I haven't explored it too much but I don't believe it's a settings issue.
bd
I believe this is actually because browsers aren't displaying the exif metadata of the image correctly. When a phone saves the image, it doesn't write the pixels in the correct orientation, it actually just saves a line in the exif info about the orientation. Some things don't choose to respect the exif data, which I think a lot of browsers don't when you use an img tag. I am not sure about the forum software you are using but there are image processing utilities that you can use to rotate the image when it is uploaded if that metadata exists, they are typically native software installs on your server (not just plugins that run in whatever your software is that you are utilizing for the forum).
Todd, can you explain the jiggle stick method? I fit my vertical cc bulkhead but am about to do the cc top so might try your method since it sounds relatively painless...
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https://youtu.be/jXXUf97EFOw
Try this video. It is pretty simple and you can use scrap that is much smaller for the pattern. My stick has a more complex shape so I can turn it upside down, but it’s the same process
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For the entry into the cuddy.
It just occurred to me I raised the shear 4 1/2”. So I should be able to add 6 1/4” rip to the bottom of my bulkhead blank. This would give me a 48” opening with a 1/2” left over to play with.
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That exactly what I ran into.. added extra to the cuddy bulkhead.
I found that turning around and taking a step backwards down into the cuddy is easier even for a short guy.
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I’m hoping that the extra 4” and the step down together will make it all ok. With some type of hand grab one could just about swing in there
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Ok Rbob. This ones for you.
I have the crash chamber cut and the anchor well with a deck doubler. I posted it sideways. Hopefully it’s not upside down. 😂
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I’m hoping that the extra 4” and the step down together will make it all ok. With some type of hand grab one could just about swing in there
Yup, you get used to it very quickly. I like having the additional space where you can lock things up while away. Cuddies tend to get crammed with stuff and locked up, e.g. your electronics and expensive gear. A notch in the dash is nice for access, but harder to lock up.
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Thanks for that!
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This seems way to tall. I did add 4” sole to shear. My intention is to keep the house “hidden” if you will. Same size house inside taller hull. I’m well inside the dimensions for the side panel blanks.
What did you all end up with?
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From top of sole to the top of the bulkhead on mine is 46" and 12" from shelf to top of cuddy +-
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Rbob. Thanks for taking the time to shoot a pic back! I have the same 12” from top of shear to top of bulkhead. From the top of the stringers to top of bulkhead is 53 3/4”. I added 4 inches to the prescribed rip at the bottom since my hull is 4 inches deeper. I’m not planning to raise the sole in the house. I’m wondering if this has consequences that I have not thought through. Like smaller windshields or something goofy.
Im confused by your 46” number. The bulkhead blank by design was 49 3/4” if I understood what I was doing. I’m gonna hold off on it I think until Brian comments.
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It probably is 53" at the center of the bulkhead.
I did raise the sole in the house, same as aft deck 4" . No consequence not raising the sole, just size the boxes/platform for your seats to sit on so you can see out the windows etc.
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I see what you mean now. I planned on leaving the sole in the house on top of the stringers for a lower center of gravity and a not so top heavy look. I’m thinking it will effect the size of the windshields and really screw with my sliding door plans?
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I had 2 weeks off. Worked all the time I wanted on the boat. Some every day. Sure didn’t get what I wanted finished but oh well. I took the time to paint the compartments with hatches. Hope it will aid with inspections and maintenance. Painted under cuddy sole too. Hatches and bow should be in next week
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You made some good progress, I wish I would have painted underside before I covered it.. Made extra work for me. Your cuddy bulkhead looks good.
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Thanks it went in pretty easy.
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Todd,
When you glass the bulkheads you can tape or staple the glass in place or roll on a coat of epoxy and let it get tacky and install the glass dry, it will stay and not slip then trim around the edges and start rolling on the epoxy.
This is the part I wish I had painted:
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I intend to paint those areas too. I want to paint under the anchor deck doubler too. Im building like Rbob and plan on using his pulpit design and the anchor winch. The area below the winch will be for storage and accessible through a rectangular hatch in the center of the forward cuddy bulkhead. I’m not sure how to glass and fillet the area above the anchor well and below the doubler and still be able to do the same with the front cuddy bulkhead.
Brian, what would your suggestion be? It’s like working your way out of a tomb before yore your done In There. Would it be advisable to fillet and tape as usual, then paint, then Glue the doubler in flush to the sub-shear?
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If an area of the boat is going to be inaccessible, either 'hard to get a human in there' or 'not possible to access', then ALL components that build that area must be glassed ahead of time and you must seal all exposed end grain. Example: When you have the top of some chamber (a deck for example) ready to install, first make sure that everything inside the to-be-enclosed chamber is glassed, end grain filled and coated to seal, etc so that everything is waterproof. On the 'enclosing lid piece', also seal all edge grain and make sure that the piece is completely encapsulated and water proof. NOW you can install it, and if you can't reach in to apply fillets, then you have too put beads of thickened epoxy on nailers/supports etc (or on top edge of web stringers) and press the 'enclosing piece (deck or whatever)' into place and let it cure. Some things are impossible to fillet after the fact. That's OK. Just take steps to ensure that all parts are fully waterproof and encapsulated before final assembly.
Brian
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I finished the front cuddy bulkhead and roughed out a cuddy roof support with handholds. I also slopped some paint under the cuddy bunks, but ran out of paint before I got a 3rd coat on.
I added a inch to the front cuddy bulkhead since my head touched the roof. I opted for the rarely used true Newport style cuddy.
For the cuddy roof support I laminated 4 lAyers of 3/8 ply together with a layer of 19oz biax smack in the middle. It’s pretty darn strong! The handholds turned out nice too. Just not sure how far ahead of the rear bulkhead I will mount them yet.
Brian, why not notch the cuddy bulkheads instead of trying to get the roof supports the exact needed length? I think I will do just this, so I can slide my supports fore and aft and see where the handholds best fit.
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You can notch the f'w'd and aft cuddy bulkheads for the roof supports if you'd like ... no problem. Use a Japanese pull saw to cut them off flush with the outer surfaces of the bulkheads. Don't forget that if you're going to use a commercially made hatch, that your supports will be the side frames for the hatch ... separate them by the right amount for the hatch that you select.
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Right on! My hatch is on BO. I’m not going ahead on it until it’s in my hand.
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Right on! My hatch is on BO. I’m not going ahead on it until it’s in my hand.
Yup! There's always plenty of other work to do!
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Todd, I like your hand holds, I think I will steal your design for my cabin.
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I will hereby consider it stolen. Hope they work for you
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Got the cuddy roof on. The hand grabs I added to the roof framing work great.
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That looks great! I am gonna steal those hand grabs too :) You know your stuff is legit when everyone steals it...
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You too, may steal away. They are very close to what Brian called for. I did change them slightly. They are not my “original idea”. They do so far seem to be just right in the 4” taller Newport cuddy. When I have the bunk tops upholstered it will be a different story.
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Brian, I am closing in on many details that need to be worked out to continue with the build. Right off the bat I wonder would you or would you not endorse building the wheel house to standard height on top of a 4" raised sole, or should I plan on a step down into the house. The latter would require a bump up in the roof at the door to keep the full size door opening, but is not a deal breaker. FWIW the extra under sole if endorsed would be used for tanks, storage and what not. THX
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Brian, I am closing in on many details that need to be worked out to continue with the build. Right off the bat I wonder would you or would you not endorse building the wheel house to standard height on top of a 4" raised sole, or should I plan on a step down into the house. The latter would require a bump up in the roof at the door to keep the full size door opening, but is not a deal breaker. FWIW the extra under sole if endorsed would be used for tanks, storage and what not. THX
Most people that raise decks opt to raise just the cockpit deck and have a step down into the house. But as you say, without raising the roof (haha) as well, this shortens the door into the house. Most just get used to stooping slightly as they pass through. How tall are you? Anyway ... you can do whatever combo you want ... the boat won't care. If you think raising the house roof makes it look top-heavy, consider adding a bulwark along the gunnel as for the Prince Rupert plans and it'll fix that. Personally, I like having under-deck storage available and you get more when raising the decks, obviously. Whether or not you need to also raise the house roof as well is an ergonomics question ... whether you want a full height door or don't mind a little stooping, how much headroom you require etc. It all works though, so no worries. The headroom inside the house is about 6'4" by default, but still 6' if you don't raise the roof.
Brian
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Todd, just having done this maybe I can add to Brian’s comments. I raised both deck and cabin 3 inches. I like the flow of not stepping down into the cab and I did raise the roof. However I should have raised the roof a little more. I am 5’ 11”, My roof is about 6’2” with the roof supports coming down from that. This makes the roof tall enough for me but the supports are just a little low. Don’t hit my head, but close. It I did it again I would measure a little closer and don’t forget roof support coming down from the roof a couple inches.
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I added 4" to side height of the hull too. I dont think that would make it top heavy looking. I remember pics of a tolman that is so top heavy it looks like it'll float upside down. I dont like that look. With the aft cuddy bulkhead the same dimension o ff the sheer decks I could have 6'-4" Inside the house. Or split the difference?
Sounds like it's ok to add the 4" umder decks. Btw I am right at 6 feet tall.
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It's not unusual to have to stand between handrails inside the house ..you learn pretty quick not to do that on your first trip out, then no problem after that! Ask me how I learned about that ... I'm 6'3"
The GA hull v. pilot house already has better proportions than other boats. It'll forgive a little roof raising. And as mentioned, you can increase the visual depth of the hull (v. the house height) by adding Prince Rupert style bulwarks on the f'w'd sheerline
bd
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Can someone elaborate further on the windshield frame doubler? Is this just a added layer of plywood to thicken the frames?
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You can build the frames from 1/4" and add a 1/4"doubler to thicken the flange. For me it was simpler to build from 1/2"
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Todd are you talking about the doubler that goes down of top of the birth roof?
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I too just used 1/2 plywood for my windshield panels. Then i skipped doubler step.
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Ok. I was talking windshield frames. I got the doubler that sits on the cuddy. I think I too will use 1/2” on the frames. So my next question is did you use 1/2” on the sides for windows too. I haven’t read ages that far, but wonder what it calls for. Glad I didn’t go gaga at the okoume store!
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It calls for 1/4 inch but I used 3/8. Don’t tell Brian. Lol
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It calls for 1/4 inch but I used 3/8. Don’t tell Brian. Lol
I heard that!!! >:( 8) ;D
The doubler is not structural (the 2nd layer on the aft end of the cuddy roof that is just inside the windshield). It is there to make it easy for you to put those windshield pieces right where you want them, guaranteeing a straight run on the bottom of each. That's it. There's more than one way to skin a cat.
Brian
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Brian the question I had was specific to windshield frame doubler not the one you mentioned above. Did I misread the plans again?
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Brian the question I had was specific to windshield frame doubler not the one you mentioned above. Did I misread the plans again?
I think I misread the thread ... my bad. :D
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Sooo, after reading the plans again I think maybe I answered my own question about the windshield frame doubler. I decided it was for building your own Lexan windows. Although not specifically stated that is what I decided.
This weekend I built low boy casters fro the jig. It now sits 1” off the floor. It makes the boat seem a lot smaller, but it is much easier to get in and out of. Plus I can see all the tools I set on the sheer without climbing back into the boat. I would build this way again because it allowed me to stand up under the hull while it was upside down. I also got the windshield mocked up and the roof template installed to scribe the windshields. I used cardboard. It sucked so I pulled off until I can get more plywood. It was worth it to some degree because it seemed like the numbers for the side windshields made the blanks way too narrow. So it did save me some materials.
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I'll have to look up the windshield info just to remind myself, but the basics are that the windshield panels need to be 1/4" (glassed both sides) or greater .... and your choice of rubber H-channel or windows will determine the thickness that the windows need to have. If you're adding a doubler around the opening, you'll also need to decide what width it needs to be so the H-channel or window frames land on wide enough wood. If you install the doublers on the inside of the window panels, note that you don't need to glass them if using a smooth wood - one of the mahogany or pseudo-mahogany woods etc. I do prefer to always at least put 1-1/2 oz glass or heavier on fir plywood since it's a peeled-ply and subject to checking. I should write a FAQ on that..... And yes, if you just want to cut the whole window panel out of thick enough wood, e.g. 1/2", then that's fine too. The frames don't weigh much .... it's the windows that are heavy.
bd
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Crystal!
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I have been using okuome for all the after the flip parts. 1/4” is 7 pounds per sheet lighter than hydro tech plywood for comparison purposes
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Anything super wrong with this idea?
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Looks great. Should work fine. Mine is very similar, I put my bathroom on the starboard side, then put windows on the forward and aft walls so I can see through it while driving. No blind spot. It’s fun doing something other then epoxy, sand, epoxy. 🙂🙂🙂
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I would like to do that, but I want a steering station in the cockpit. No bathroom odors in the house!
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It’s been awhile since I put up pics. The anchor well is now completely closed in. It’s overkill, but the piece in the pic is a 1 1/8” thick just like the sheer. It’ll get covered with a 1/2” finished off Rbob pulpit special! Thanks again.
I raised the sole to sheer number 4 1/4 inches on my hull. So I put another 3” chunk of lvl on top of my stringers. With standard house dimensions I should have an extra 1 1/4” of no head bonky in the house. My plan is to slope the cockpit from 5” aft of the house downward to the transom with a 1/2” crown to the sides of the cockpit. Anyone done this? I was thinking an 1 1/4”-1 1/2” down slope.
I’m not sure what to do about freeing ports. I think they need to go aft through the transom. Any big concerns if I drill 2-4 2” holes in the transom? Cannon called it. Add 4” to the sheer and center punch the spray rails. I did the smiley spray rails and they are not per plan. They are still in the way.
P.s. sorry about your neck today Rbob😊
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That's gonna be a solid deck, almost 2 inches thick! I made my anchor well sole an inch and it's pretty good, double that is gonna be solid as a rock. Looking good, The compartment looks super clean.
I also have wondered about the freeing ports. I plan to do a similar crown, but kind of want to run the scuppers out the sides as far aft as the cockpit will go. Not sure if running them out the sides will be a safety issue or not, would love to hear more.
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I just read Brian say no mess with cutting on the motor boards! So they will have to go outside. I think I’m not going to crown the deck with amount of slope I have. It is probably more than necessary. I did find a spot where I am a 1 1/4” above the spray rails for freeing ports. I really hope the boat will self tend with 1500 pounds of fuel in her belly. Monday I will shop my drawings and stir the can of Vaseline.
Here’s some recent pics. Got all the windshield frames in and still picking away at the inside of the cuddy. I cut a big hole in the roof since it was really dark in there. I’m running out of things to do while I wait on tanks that I haven’t ordered yet.
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Nice progress
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Nice progress
Definitely, and you can see why the scissor-truss roof structure was necessary! That's a big boat!
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Looking better all the time!
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Thanks all
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Finally got all the cuddy glasses and taped. Never gonna put another piece of wood in the boat without glassing it first !
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Finally got all the cuddy glasses and taped. Never gonna put another piece of wood in the boat without glassing it first !
Ahh ... the voice of experience! :D
bd
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At least it is behind you now. I remember cussing myself over the same thing.
Post some pics when you can.
Given the choice between the experience of pain and nothing, I would choose pain
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I have some scraping and sanding. Becor tI post anything! Runs, drips, even impressions of my ass on the cuddy bunks !
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Runs and drips suck.. What helped me the most was (vertical) roll on the lightest coat of epoxy you can (thin!) and wait till it is sticky (like masking tape) then roll on a med-heavy coat and it will stay where you put it.
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The vertical stuff was a breeze. The overhead was a bearcat!
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Oh, yes it sucks. Just keep counting down the beatings until the day you get it launched!
By the way you are making amazing progress.
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Been going back and forth with fuel tank manufacturer trying to iron out details. They took my isometric drawings and reduced them to a simple looking 2D cad drawing and didn’t capteure many of the details and pulled dimensions from the wrong points. Will do a final mark up and pull the trigger. They say that hanging the tanks from the stringers alone is not enough support. Food for thought for those who haven’t reached this point
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My tank builder said the same thing about hanging the tank. He also told me it’s not coast guard approved, not sure if that’s true
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My tank builder said the same thing about hanging the tank. He also told me it’s not coast guard approved, not sure if that’s true
As far as I know, you're not supposed to hang the tank from flanges on top, and you're not supposed to use the top of the tank as a deck either.
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They say that hanging the tanks from the stringers alone is not enough support. Food for thought for those who haven’t reached this point
Good to know, thanks for the heads up. I was literally about to send off my drawing for a hanging tank and changed it up (I still asked, they said they won't do it, it's the same fabricator djeffrey used).
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FWIW. Coast guard does not allow the tank to be Bart of a bulkhead or support for decks or floors. I’m paraphrasing, but that’s the just. I am using the flanges and tubular supports as locating/restraint items to my build.
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Which is the strongest? Fir cvg, lvl, or plywood for the above the tank deck supports. All the above will be made from larger stock, so no matter what none are ready to go as is. Fir cvg need non be glassed, correct?
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I will put my money on LVL. I used both Yellow cedar and LVL. I believe you could drive a truck on the LVL. Most do not have room for very tall supports so I went wider. You can always cut some supports the correct width, and place on blocks to jump / stand to see the deflection if any.
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Exactly how I installed mine. Good job!
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Of those listed, ALL are plenty strong enough ... I would place a priority on waterproofness instead. I would use any 'select' wood you can get ... plywood on edge if no voids or all voids on edge grain well sealed (below), same rules for LVL. For solid lumber, knot-free wood either with no defects or defects well-filled. Since you asked, LVL is designed to be a beam on edge, while plywood is not ... but for stiffening a deck, it's fine. Usually, solid lumber of square dimension is not rated as a beam either, but again, for stiffening a deck it's more than adequate.
Sealing end grain, edge grain, or wood defects: First coat edges with epoxy (repeat while wet) until the epoxy stays glossy for 10+ minutes. This indicates that no more saturation is occurring - the end grain will turn dull if the epoxy is still being absorbed. Cure. Sand corners to slightly round them and sand edge/end grain smooth. Vacuum off dust and wipe with damp towel and let dry. Mix cream slurry of epoxy and silica and coat edges with it to plug and fill all defects (microscopy on up to large and visible). I use a gloved hand to massage the silica mix into the wood and leave it smooth. Cure, lightly sand, add 2 seal-coats of clear epoxy.
Note that I, personally, follow the routine above for all edges. It's extra work, however, so I try to make sure I never have to do it ... bury edges in seams that have fillets of epoxy on them etc to avoid having to seal edge grain. It's unavoidable on ends of nailers and bottoms of deck supports that are made from some type of ply (seal bottom edge before installation) - which is why, for the aforementioned deck supports, I'd go with dimensional lumber and would just fillet where they meet the stringers. Just my 2-bits. For the record, I own a 20 year old skiff that has plywood sealed as above and was stored outside in weather for most of it's life, and the plywood edges sealed as above have never failed ... look good as new (see below).
Brian
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Sounds good. I will cut a slot and run my deck supports like in the photo above. Except I’m going to slot all the way through and cut my supports the outside to outside dimension of the stringers.
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Another fast way to seal end grain, if it's easily accessible, is FIBERGLASS. Presoak as above and slap it on ... especially under the decks where the only fairing needed is a quick pass along the glass edges with a carbide scraper before the final epoxy seal coats.
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Den spending time sanding and fairing while I wait on my tanks. I did make deck supports. I glasses 3 sides. Used cvg fir. I also made the mounting flange for the bow hatch. It still need some work, but is mostly done. Did similar to Rbob if I remember correctly.
I also installed and glassed the floor below the big tank and installed with glass it’s forward bulkhead. The floor allows the bilge to be separate from the tank compartments
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I like the floor for separating the tank compartment from the bilge, and allowing drainage to the stern to still work... :D
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I think it will be totally functional! I have a ton of room under the decks. Design plus 3” in the least. Be a shame to let any of that space go to waste. My next project is to find a custom built water tank. My SS water tank (30 gallons) price was more than my 120 gallon fuel tank. So I opted for a different option. It’s tough to find off the shelf stuff that “fits”. Might go a bit smaller than 30 gallons
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Rbob, how did you deal with this transition?
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Yes challenging, but what worked for me was a cardboard tube 3.5" diameter maybe 2ft long. I have #40 stick-it fileboard sandpaper.
Pic:
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Okay! How did it turn out? Do you have a after pic too? Im wondering if the thickness I chose added to the complexity of fairing it in. After seeing yours. I beveled my support piece 6 degrees
somehow my sheer is not level with the stringers across the bow. Something moved on me. It wasn't obvious until I started working on the pulpit. Now I cant not see it.
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You guys worry me .... are you cutting into the motor boards? Got a pic from further back so I can see what's going on here? Thx....
Brian
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It’s the anchor pulpit. I used a couple pieces of lvl to support under the plywood overhang. Here it is off the boat during its roughing in
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Okay! How did it turn out? Do you have a after pic too? Im wondering if the thickness I chose added to the complexity of fairing it in. After seeing yours. I beveled my support piece 6 degrees
somehow my sheer is not level with the stringers across the bow. Something moved on me. It wasn't obvious until I started working on the pulpit. Now I cant not see it.
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Ha! Why didn't I think of that? :-\ :o 8) ;D
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Todd,
A couple more finished pics. When sanding I held the tube against the side of the boat and blend it in to the side angle on the pulpit.
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That looks great. I planed about 3/8” of the lvl to make it look less blocky. It’s pretty beefy!
I got tired of sanding and Spreading epoxy. I built the decks for the house and the aft house bulkhead today. I did a mock up of my stand up head. Made it bigger than the drawing I posted awhile back. Ended up with more room port to starboard than I thought! That’s a win
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Looking fantastic, and great progress! Really like how the anchor pulpit turned out ... very professional. Your filled screw holes look so perfect, I have to assume you used my suggested fill method right (over-fill, cure, scrape off flush w/carbide scraper)? :D
Brian
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Yes, and used the carbide scraper after using the infamous Shinto File Rasp to get it almost perfect.
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Yes, Rbob makes stuff that’s easy on the eyes!
I did a mock up of the plan for doors and windows in the aft house bulkhead.
The door on the port side is for a stand up head. I didn’t want smells to get into the house. I figure it will also make a handy spot for hanging wet gear. I will start out with a porta potty and see how much it gets used. Maybe down the road add a marine head. With the bulkheads mocked up for the head I was still able to lay down and not touch the aft cuddy bulkhead.
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I wouldn't worry about smells in the boat, stuff happens... Maybe a power ventilator and vent inlet from outside the cabin so smells get exhausted quickly.
Will the only access be from outside the cabin?
Looking good!
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Outside is the only planned access. I don’t know how much use it will really get, access from inside the house requires much more space inside the head. One way or the other it’s the same amount of moving parts I think. The photo makes the door to the head look out of square, but it is not
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I have been plowing through the epoxy lately. 3 deck pieces lightly glassed on the underside and have the rear cabin bulkhead ready for glass. I been using up some odd shaped pieces of glass that are left over from other projects. Only doing this on stuff that will be buried under decks. Did some more sanding and filling in the cuddy too. Tanks should be home soon. Maybe a couple weeks. I will be installing a 20 gallon water tank too.
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I’m done messing around inside the cuddy for the most part now. My 20 gallon water tank and water pump showed up. Shower sump pump and blower motor should be home Monday. I glassed more parts this weekend. 6 bulkheads to hold conduits and fuel lines and such. I’m going to buy or rent a conduit blanket heater or box for bending the conduits instead of using fittings. I think it will be easier and much cleaner. I plan to run fresh air from a dorade box and cowl fitting from just in front of the port side windshield through a hanging locker through the forward house bulkhead and into the fuel tank compartments. Don’t know where it will exhaust yet. It’s nice to have added so much to the top of the stringers. It will allow me to cut all kinds of holes I. Them without touching the actual structural design of the boat. Glad I done it this way so far.
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Looking forward to all the details on your water systems - Not sure that anyone else has posted much on that topic.
When you drill holes through stringers, keep the edge of the holes at least 2" from the top or bottom of the main (LVL) stringers - noting that wood added to the tops of the main stringers counts as part of the main stringers... except for the outboard web stringers (plywood). The web stringers are less about being structural and more about stiffening, e.g. preventing skin flex in the hull and in the decks.
Brian
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Brian, why would it matter if I drill a big hole through the extra stringer I added to the main stringer? My build plan has me using this extra meat as a way to pass through the stringers in several different ways. Conduit, piping, wiring, etc. I will be required to notch the added stringer tops to lower the fuel tanks into place. The only way around this would be to completely cut them out and add a rip outside the stringers if you follow. I hope this oversight isn't a too big a deal. If so, I may need some counseling
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Brian, why would it matter if I drill a big hole through the extra stringer I added to the main stringer? My build plan has me using this extra meat as a way to pass through the stringers in several different ways. Conduit, piping, wiring, etc. I will be required to notch the added stringer tops to lower the fuel tanks into place. The only way around this would be to completely cut them out and add a rip outside the stringers if you follow. I hope this oversight isn't a too big a deal. If so, I may need some counseling
Let me clarify on holes through the main stringers:
- IF you did NOT raise the deck, e.g. the underlying stringer height, then you MUST keep holes 2" or further from the top or bottom of the stringer in order to maintain required strength
- If you DID raise the deck as shown below, then you have 2 options ... 1) Maintain the extra strength of the taller stringer by keeping holes further than 2" from the top or bottom of the heightened stringer (left-hand example below), or 2) Maintain NO LESS than the original stringer's strength by cutting holes AT or ABOVE the top of the original stringer. Either option is FINE and I think most go with the example on the right.
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I will need to use the option on the right of your picture. Only because the fuel tank's tops need to be about 2" below the top of the added stringer. If you look back to post 453 you can get a pretty good look at my stringers and you can see where the step is.
Soooo, Im wondering about the prospect of extra weight carrying capacity on the transom? I cant recall exactly, but at the transom I think the stringers are an extra 3" taller than design. The originals are wrapped in glass. I routed the tops radius ed over for the glass to follow. The additional stringer was glued on top. There is a nice fat fillet there. the added stringer was also rounded over and it too was wrapped with glass. Im still having this fantasy of twin 115 evinrudes mounted directcly on the transom with Idock. The data i saw last night has a particular 115 part number at 390 pounds. For 2 of them that isnt much weight over design. At what point is too much weight just that?
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I will need to use the option on the right of your picture. Only because the fuel tank's tops need to be about 2" below the top of the added stringer. If you look back to post 453 you can get a pretty good look at my stringers and you can see where the step is.
Soooo, Im wondering about the prospect of extra weight carrying capacity on the transom? I cant recall exactly, but at the transom I think the stringers are an extra 3" taller than design. The originals are wrapped in glass. I routed the tops radius ed over for the glass to follow. The additional stringer was glued on top. There is a nice fat fillet there. the added stringer was also rounded over and it too was wrapped with glass. Im still having this fantasy of twin 115 evinrudes mounted directcly on the transom with Idock. The data i saw last night has a particular 115 part number at 390 pounds. For 2 of them that isnt much weight over design. At what point is too much weight just that?
Twin 115s will work fine on your 27-1/2 GA. How much gear, appliances, and tanks will you have f'w'd? Battery placement?
bd
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when I did the calcs for the COG I was real close. I moved the 20 gallons of water to directly behind the aft cuddy bulkhead. With that I should be right on. Will check figures when I get back home again. My anchor well is closed off and 1 3/8” solid with the anchor winch like DAN B. I can put batteries anywhere I guess. Was thinking inside a box under the captains chair. We’ll see
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Sounds good. Batteries are always a challenge ... they're heavy, so it's preferable to not put them inside the transom since boats, like people, tend to 'gain weight in the back' over time. It's best if they have some ventilation too, although they don't need much. They produce hydrogen gas. I guess if you go with a sealed battery then you could have them in the house. Dan Boccia is the resident expert on battery technology ... maybe he'll chime in.
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I built some bulkheads to carry the conduits under decks for wiring, water, grey water, fuel lines and the like. Lots time and not a lot of visual progress. I spent a lot of time drawing it out and making changes and finally arrived at a plan I’m happy with. I will at this point have a pair of 2” conduits from the helm aft on the sbd side and 1 just like it to the port side. Right now these are spares. I think it should be plenty.
My plan as it is now is to bring them up just aft of the rear cuddy bulkhead into a compartment just in front of the helm. Similar to what is pictured in the manual, but on the other side of the bulkhead. I will install a removable panel just below where the helm is mounted for access
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Tanks giving!
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Nice dude. Have you worked out how you are going to support them on the underside? Is your underside V or a U shape? I am finding all kinds of conflicting info about how to stop crevice corrosion and the right/wrong way to support them. It's mind numbing.
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Nice dude. Have you worked out how you are going to support them on the underside? Is your underside V or a U shape? I am finding all kinds of conflicting info about how to stop crevice corrosion and the right/wrong way to support them. It's mind numbing.
Consider what is done for aluminum aircraft ... Zinc Chromate Primer (https://www.amazon.com/MARPAC-MARINE-Chromate-Primer-6-5605/dp/B00ZSY2P3I) followed by an epoxy bottom coat (can be submersed) paint "barrier coat" type system. Add good bonding, install so there's no water trapped against or collecting on top of the tank and voila! You've got it! Nice to have access for clean out or at least treat your fuel now and then with water-absorbing additives to nix the 'water in the fuel' issue causing corrosion inside the tank itself. Keep it clean.
I like flange mounted tanks if the tank is designed for it, e.g. no cracking after slamming waves for 10 years. This is so you can have airspace under the tank. Second to that, I'd consider narrow runners under the tank, cross-wise, that minimize tank contact and allow drainage towards the stern.
Brian
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Regarding mounting aluminum tanks and crevice corrosion, to me it's crystal clear: Give as much of the tank as possible an air space of something like 1/2" so moisture cannot get trapped against the aluminum, and where aluminum comes in contact with the structure of the boat, it must be completely bedded in sealant that squeezes out on all sides so zero moisture can get into these areas. On a previous boat, I glued 3/4" UHMW plastic strips to the bottom of the tank, then set the tank on the floor of the boat. Done.
The tanks look good - my only comment is that I would have put both draw tube fittings on the aft side of the tanks, since when running the stern is usually lower, and thus you'll get more useful volume. I assume this tank is going to rest on the "floor" you've made, and the tabs are only holding it from sliding around, not taking any of the vertical stress? Tabs make me nervous because they concentrate loads into small points, especially with 1/8" aluminum, but if you're resting on the bottom you're good. Fuel tanks are a major milestone, congratulations!
Regarding the battery comment above, to be honest, my next batteries will be lithium-ion regardless of expense. Half the weight, way less fussy to charge, take a charge in WAY less time than lead acid batteries, and on and on. The weight savings alone are probably worth it for me.
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Yes. Rest on floor!
My plan, support tanks from floor, use tabs as hold down and prevent sliding. Bed tank to supports as you suggested. Enjoy boat! I see your point on the fuel pickup. The tank is only 2 and a half feet long. So I really can’t see losing too much usable fuel while on plane.
One milestone in the rear view!
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Back to fuel tanks.
I would like to recommend Coastline Equipment for your tanks if you have not looked into them. David was great to deal with. We had many back and forth conversations be email before I green lighted fabrication. He got back to me the same day with most of my questions. They were cheaper with freight than have a local outfit build the tanks. My tanks are tested and coast guard approved. The local guy could not satisfy that request, they couldn’t even test them. I live 8 Hours south their facility and freight was cheaper than gas to get them myself!
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Got some sleeves installed for fuel, power, water, and drains with some room for expansion. I think this is probably more than I require. Having said that, I think I’ve made it real easy to route stuff around the boat. I’m sure that someone who knows what they are doing would have done a lot less. I’m going to lay out under deck supports today. Along with the required web stringers.
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Brian, I went on without reading the plans, again. I have preglassed a sheet of 1/2” ply for the web stringers. Is this a deal breaker? Should I try to use this sheet elsewhere, and go source another sheet of 3/4”?
Thx
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Brian, I went on without reading the plans, again. I have preglassed a sheet of 1/2” ply for the web stringers. Is this a deal breaker? Should I try to use this sheet elsewhere, and go source another sheet of 3/4”?
Thx
I'll let you get away with the 1/2" ply THIS time! ::) ;D Half inch is fine. I used 3/4" to help add weight to the boat down low ... part of being conservative in the design.
Brian
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I’ll make up for the weight difference with fuel!
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Todd, where did you go? How is the boat work?
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I’m still around! I have been spending stupid amount of time doing stuff that really shows no progress. Still farting around with under deck stuff. Still have 2 bulkheads to glue In on the port side. So I still have all the port web Stringers to install. I have 1’web stringer in on the strbd side. I probably won’t add in anything behind the aft house bulkhead until I decide on fish boxes and hatches. I did the Rbob homemade hatch in the house to access water pump and tank and blower fan. Today I built the hatch framing to access the cross over conduits and the shower sump. They are time consuming, but not so bad if you can work on them and go onto soMe thing else while epoxy dries. I’m also waiting on 2 pieces of 3” 316 stainless steel tube that I am having Our shop build. It will carry air under the sealed decks to and from the fan so no dryer hose where it’s I accessible.
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How do you go about determining the COG? This seems like an important step for placing a big item like a fuel tank.
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I knew that at one time. Basicly it’s at the rear bulkhead or rear door. Maybe Brian will pipe in with an measurement for you
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How do you go about determining the COG? This seems like an important step for placing a big item like a fuel tank.
The CG is around 9' forward of the transom on a 26' GA. Slightly farther forward on longer GA's or Kodiaks. The thing to keep in mind is that it's not an exact science, and that items have more effect on trim the further they are from the CG. That's why I suggest tanks and batteries, or other heavier items get placed so that they are nearer the aft pilothouse bulkhead. Close 'nuf...
Brian
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Here’s what I did. The dimensions are still accurate. The volume of the tanks may have shanked slightly. Less volume if anything. But you get the idea.
The COG was figured from a number I got from Brian. I can’t remember how I shifted it to fit my length
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Given my remarks above, the rule of thumb is to keep the fuel CG somewhere around the typical location of the aft pilothouse bulkhead. Other thoughts ... the ideal trim of a Great Alaskan at rest is the bow trimming higher than the stern by 1" to 2", definitely not down at the bow, when the boat has half fuel, most of the gear, and no people in it - self-draining when unattended at a dock (you can also add slope to the cockpit deck to help on this topic). You want water to drain aft in other words. The other side of the coin is that boats, like wives, tend to gain weight in the rear over time... fishermen, ice boxes, more gear than planned on etc. You don't want to trim too low at the stern on the first pass either. Before you worry too much about this stuff though ... don't. As I stated above, close is close enough and these boats are big enough to be forgiving of slightly non-optimal layouts (all boats are non-optimal in one way or another!)
Brian
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I found the info on COG and tank placement with Brian’s recommendations. It’s on page 2 of this forum titled “fuel tank placement “. Sorry guys not smart enough to provide a direct link.
Just trying to stay busy waiting on the last bit of underfloor piping. Glued the aft house bulkhead in and built another home made hatch in the head. This ones for the shower sump. I have been obsessing with all the under deck details. In a couple weeks all of it will be hidden forever! Pics coming before I cover it all up
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My solution for Power venting the aft End of the fuel coffin. Similar on the forward end. It’s just not photogenic yet😜. Here’s a shot at the other end.
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Looks like $$$ stainless! I think I recall you saying that when you mentioned avoiding flexible hoses ... the tubing you've put in looks awesome!
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Very cool pipes! Nicest looking ventilation I have seen.
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Put in the house decks for good yesterday eve. Used 90 some pool noodles under the house. I ripped some in half and glued them to the floor as an attempt to maintain a clear drainage path through the limbers. Hope this will allow some circulation of air too. I just kinda put them in there without forcing them otherwise I probably could hav fit several more.
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Pics of installed decks
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Another great milestone. Congrats!
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Big day. Glad you took lots of pics of all that work you will never see again. 😂
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Lower pilothouse panels on today!
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It's already a sharp looking boat ... love the angles on the windshield. :D
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When viewed on my PC the images are a little stretched out or something. The windshield angles are set to my interpretation of your design! Whatever that is worth. :) It feels more boatier now. I added in the decks clear to the transom just for ease of moving around. They are not permanent yet and will be butchered. Nice to have no more things to trip over. Its funny how certain aspects of the build go away then come back with a vengeance and then disappear. Before the flip cleaning the hull was a breeze, after the flip much sweeping and vacuum work. tanks and web stringers added huge PITA for cleaning. decks in and i can roll the vac anywhere its needed.
I took some time to go for a bay crawl this weekend. managed 5 dungeness in about 40 yards. water was so cruddy I couldn't see past my elbows!
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Those crabs look huge! Dungy's are my favorite seafood.
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They were pretty full too. There plentiful now. 12 each a day
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Is that Oregon? We use to get crab in puget sound (Olympia) but it was over fished commercially and now its been closed for a couple years.
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Yes. Florence Oregon
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Those are some fat crabs... Do people ever hoop net dungeness up there like they do spiny lobsters down here in southern california or is it strictly a trap/diving fishery?
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Those are some fat crabs... Do people ever hoop net dungeness up there like they do spiny lobsters down here in southern california or is it strictly a trap/diving fishery?
Only 300 miles, maybe next year I will make that trip.
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Very similar to hoop nets. We call them rings. We pulled up piles of them in rings. Traps are really cheap at 15$ On sale kinda makes rings not worth it.
I like my bugs too!
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OMG! My eyes are bugging out!!
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Jeez, that thing is huge. What is that like 10lbs? That must have been pretty thrilling to spot and grab. Are traps as easy to pull by hand as hoops or rings?
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That was 9.5 LBS. I have grabbed bigger, but that is the only monster i grabbed intact. The traps I use are the el cheapo Danielson folding traps. They are really easy to pull. They are considered the homeowner grade of gear if you know what i mean. You can afford to lose one at their price point. They do last several years if you dont use them more than 1/2 dozen times a year.
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This is my biggest bug ever. Even after pulling parts off it was over 11 lbs
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Got one upper side panel on. They are a rascal! Hard to line up and keep straight and true. I wish I would have made them from 3/8” or 1/2”.
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This is my biggest bug ever. Even after pulling parts off it was over 11 lbs
Is that considered a record book lobster? I saved the pic and re-posted, looks right. I resized it and "paint" keeps the aspect ratio.. No matter how you look at it its awesome!
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5 pounds is considered a trophy. The record is decades old at just over 16 pounds. I’ve only seen one bigger than the second pic I posted. Last year at SB island a 12 pounder!
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I am considering doing all the ph walls/windows 1/2... sounds like you agree with that decision. :) Nice bugs too... man, I would crap myself if I pullled a hoop with a bug in it like that. I guess diving kind of gives you discretion about which bug you want to go to war with...
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Keep in mind the the aft ph bulkhead and windshield and doubler are laid out for 1/4”. I have some straight fir cvg that I screwed to the upper panels above and below the window openings. That helped keep things pretty straight while my tacks cured. Once filleted and cured things really stiffen up. With the large windows the whole thing is just kinda noodly
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Other side
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Went grocery shopping again!
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Nice!!
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I need to go shopping!
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I got to work on the boat some this weekend. Taped the inside bottom of the upper side panel to lower side panel joints and the lower side panel to under shear deck. It went pretty well. I used 12” tape. All I could get was 9 oz. I used Rbob’s advise and let the epoxy sit awhile before trying to put the tape on. Worked really great! Glassed all but the last bit of deck inside the PH. Haven’t cut any plywood in awhile, so that will be fun to get back to it.
As of now I have my helm chair ordered, galley sink and faucet ordered, and my refrigeration system on order.
http://www.isotherm-parts.com/product-range/isotherm-icebox-conversion-cooling-units/compact-systems/air-cooled/compact-classic-2010-x-air-cooled-large-l-evaporator-with-integrated-smart-energy-control
I was going to use the same unit as Dan B. I changed my mind because I didn’t want to be bending over and getting on my hands and knees to get into the fridge. I think this will make a pretty cool fridge compartment. I will never have to bend over to get into it.
Dan has also caught my attention with his wet locker for drying gear. I was going to do something similar. I was going to have a hanger rack in the stand up head. I’m considering changing my port side window panels and eliminating the head altogether. I would however store the potty in that compartment along with ?????? Might even move the galley sink into it. That would give me massive top to throw charts on, food prep, or whatever.
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Todd,
Refrigeration unit sounds interesting, I take it you just need to make a insulated box and mount it correct? I like it.
Glad you got a lot done.
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You pretty much nailed it. The plus side is I can just put ice into it if it’s on the fritz. Still keep stuff cold, or extend the time I can keep a small amount of ice. It’s good for 4.4 cuft. So it’s a bit bigger than the stand alone fridge I was looking at. If I build a sump into it that I can block off it will turn into a freezer by reducing the size of the compartment. I doubt I would, but it’s an Interesting proposition.
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I have been doing tons of taping, glassing, aNd fairing. All that is left In the PH is a redesign of some aft Bulkhead Details and to glass it’s inside face. The. The PH is ready for all the glorious trinkets that are trickling in. It’s nice to be close to the nExt stage of construction
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How do you go about determining the COG? This seems like an important step for placing a big item like a fuel tank.
The CG is around 9' forward of the transom on a 26' GA. Slightly farther forward on longer GA's or Kodiaks. The thing to keep in mind is that it's not an exact science, and that items have more effect on trim the further they are from the CG. That's why I suggest tanks and batteries, or other heavier items get placed so that they are nearer the aft pilothouse bulkhead. Close 'nuf...
Brian
Brian,
So on my Kodiak at 30+ feet guessing my CG about 10-11+- feet forward of the transom? So whatever the CG is do you center the combined length of both tanks on the CG? I'm going with 2 tanks with duel filter systems that can run my either motor or both motors off of either tank. Thinking one will be 80 gallons the other at 40 gallons. Most often running both motors off of the 80 gallon tank thinking the 40 gallon up front could also be used for a ballast if need be and act as my reserve fuel. Or maybe the 80 should be in front of the 40?
Some info as planed at this point:
OAL 378"
Aft Cuddy B/Head 123" from bow since I am using glued in bunks you said this length was OK
Aft Wheel House B/Head 225" from bow
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https://www.glacierboats.net/forum/index.php?topic=808.0
Check here
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https://www.glacierboats.net/forum/index.php?topic=808.0
Check here
Thanks for the link!
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Yeah ... that's a good thread to refer to. I should Sticky it....
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Managed a little progress yesterday. I built 3 bulkheads that will define my galley and port side seating arrangement. I Picked up the new helm chair. Boy is it nice! I hatched a plan for stove storage that I think will be pretty cool.
Is it standard to buy the steering and shifter/throttle before settling on a power package? I have no idea what I want for brand. Now thinking single 250 with a kicker.
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Which captain's chair did you settle on? I am not quite there yet but certainly like to put together lists of potentials to refer to later. Also looking forward to some pics of how your layout is coming. I think you need to know what kind of motor you are putting on before you get the throttle/controls, steering I think is standard, either hydraulic or mechanical for the most part, although I am probably going to go for yamaha's new digital electronic control system if I can get my hands on it which is a fly by wire setup for both steering and throttle/shifting now that evinrude is done.
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Show us the helm chair, its like candy to a boat builder.
I think its a good idea to get the steering setup and steering wheel but maybe not the shifter, maybe brand specific. (guessing) I like the fly by wire, just a little more money but no cables to route or change later.
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I had my heart set on a total fly by wire with 2 stations. My guess is each brand is proprietary. The Evinrude dealer wasn’t even sure how to make it work with duals, but was up to the challenge. My wife just started shopping outboards and bout had a heart attack.
If you scroll back through this thread you can find a dwngs of my PH layout. I changed the head for a compartment similar to Dan B, but I will put a galley sink there and lengthen the port side accommodations to make the bunk longer.
Here’s the chair, you can add a seat heater and a recliner option. It’s made in Oregon.
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That is a great looking seat, very comfortable. Were you going with twins or single and kicker?
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My twins dream shattered by evinrude. Big single and kicker is.now.the plan. Probably a short bracket too
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Here’s some candy!
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Yum yum. That chair tho! Do you need to purchase a separate base for it? If so are you going to just do a standard pedestal or a shock mount? I got a thousand dollars of paint in the mail the other day but a pic of that isn't so exciting haha.
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I was going to put it on a box. No suspension.
Bentley’s sells many goodies to go with their seats. They do have a mechanical suspension that only takes up about 8” or so. I don’t know what I’m going to do yet. I want a swivel so I can turn the chair away from the helm, but I don’t know if it will have enough room. Could turn a sliding swivel 90 degrees to get it away from the sheer deck? I’m designing my bin for the fridge and prepping for a bottom fishing trip.
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I will be curious to see how you insulate and build your fridge bin. I have been thinking I am just going to make an insulated sleeve for ice around my cold box, but maybe depending on how yours turns out I might duplicate your efforts. Either way looks like you have some stuff to keep you busy for a minute or two.
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More candy!
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This is the sketch I did for the refer bin
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Built some bulkheads to define PH accommodations. Also started the refer bin.
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Can you post some info on your isotherm? Was thinking about that? Also if it helps when I built my icebox I used the 1/4 inch bubble insulation layered up to 2 inches. In my research I found that the R factor was much higher with it then 2 inch foam. On a recent trip I had a block of ice last 6 days.
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Anything in particular? I posted a link to the product I purchased above in this thread. I think you. An download the manual right from there. 2” insulation is what the manual asked for in my operating temps. I may go three”. It is specific about the type of foam and it’s thermal conductivity. You must of course size the unit to the bin. I went 4.4 cuft and maximized to get every cubic inch. I can forward you a email addy if you don’t see what your after. They have been pretty good to deal with. A part didn’t make this it shipment and they thanked me for being nice about it.
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Here’s the progress on the refer bin this morning. Got everything I could fillet and tape before more parts go on. Couple more joints now and the supports over the milk jug storage and I can glue the other side on. probably wont fuss with the other dividers as drawn. My dad reminds me that there are tons of stuff already available for RV refers. I will go that route
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Interesting, I didn't quite understand what the earlier pic of this was, but now I get it. Are you going to install a drain or anything inside the reefer box or just towel out condensation? This is going to have top access right?
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I will install a drain of some sort and pipe it over to my shower sump.
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Finished the refer bin for the most part. It is taller than needed since Im not sure how thick the the door will be yet. I will trim it down after.
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Looks like your making good progress, looking good!
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A little more on the refer bin. It’s ready more or less for insulation. More tomorrow
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I have most of the insulation on. Except two panels on the bottom. It fits as tight as it possibly could. I used thicker insulation than called for since I mostly had the space for it and the unused space was of no use anyway
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This refer bin is a lot more work than I originally expected. I bet I have 5 solid days into it so far. It was a rascal trying to keep everything plumb, level, square. If your just the gitter done kinda dude just buy a refrigerator. I think this project will make the house feel more boaty
It’s almost as big as the cruise elegance 130 and almost half price.
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If anyone ever wondered Will foil or polyisocyanurate stick to epoxy? It does. I did a couple test pieces. I was however able to rip the stuff I. Two pretty easy as the polyiso let go. It was unaffected by epoxy without the foil.
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Miss working on the boat, but taking some needed time away from work. Spent the weekend off of Catalina doing some grocery getting. I sacked up 21 lobsters. No big ones. This weekend will be off Santa Barbara. There’s bigguns there. We will see.
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Miss working on the boat, but taking some needed time away from work. Spent the weekend off of Catalina doing some grocery getting. I sacked up 21 lobsters. No big ones. This weekend will be off Santa Barbara. There’s bigguns there. We will see.
Post pix!
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You are in my neck of the woods! I haven't had a shot yet at the bugs, I am thinking in a week or two. Just got my 17' cc fixed so ready to go!
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I didn’t do any thing picture worthy. Here is a shot of my PB. Taken about 6-7 years ago at San Miguel
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Headed back after the week of bagging bugs. I sacked 31. I have next week off too. Time to spend with the mistress in the barn!
Sorry no pics of this trip. We never made it to the island of giants(Santa Barbara). Spent 5 days On Catalina. It’s pretty good hunting but not very good for big ones.
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Welcome back, looks looks lots of fun.
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Built my galley cabinet today. Used the design in the plans. Will put drawer fronts on it after I box in the refer.
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Started to build the goodies for the port side of the house. I’m pretty much sticking to the plans. Planning on using the flip flop front seat. Still Messi g around with the refer while it’s outside the boat. It won’t fit through the door with the gasket flange on both sides(Thanks Rbob, Im using your idea for the doors and seals). I know it looks big Brian! It’s not as big as it looks. It is 6” over actual with the insulation. It’s just over 4 cuft.
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Looks good to me, and I like all the sticks that hold everything in place while you 'stitch weld' epoxy to lock things in ... :D
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The panels weren’t very flat after I cut them. The unthickened epoxy before the stitches made a real slip and slide!
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house accommodations coming along nicely
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Looking Good.
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That's looking great... Making great headway.
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Lots of busy work on the boat this weekend. The stuff that really doesn’t show much progress. I did start building the house door. Once again Rbob deserves much thanks for providing a solid plan for another piece of my boat. Thanks! I’m crafty enough to build about Anything, I just don’t have the imagination I got the wife In The boat to explain The accommodations. She had a spectacular idea for the flip flop front seat back that I’m really excited about. If it works it’ll be really cool. Pics soon I hope
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This is a great way to build a door .. it's light, and it'll stay flat over the years.
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Looks good to me, and I like all the sticks that hold everything in place while you 'stitch weld' epoxy to lock things in ... :D
I second the good idea. going to be figuring my floor plan pretty soon. I think this idea will come in handy!!!
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A I said above. I used the idea from Rbob. Many of his build elements have found their way on to my project
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My rendition of the flip flop seat. Kinda surprised I haven’t seen this before
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That looks great! Nice innovation...
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Very clever! Can you share the dimensions for your work?
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sure, I drew it first. so a couple clean up items on the sheet and will post
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HTH. I need to trim about 1/8" off of the front edge of the seat. In the photos it is just wedged in there for the bunk. I will need to add some light cleats to carry it in the down position. after I'm done painting I will add a couple of 1 x 4 across the seat box inside top to carry the cushions when the seat is down. This will give me something to attach the seat to while under way. It will require some sort of through bolts or fasteners of some sort. This will also allow for some adjustment fore and aft, depending on who is sitting there, like a poor boy seat slider. I'm open to suggestions! A foot rest on the aft cuddy bulkhead is in order too. Note that the seat stops just short of the cabin side walls. It can hang over into the passage way some too if needed. This design allows full storage all the way to the side of the boat without the dead space necessary to flop just the seat back as shown in the design package.
This has no more moving parts than the flip flop back. And there is no spare or extra parts to stow going back and forth.
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Ready for install!
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Sweet! What kind of paint are you using?
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It’s just the rustoleum topside. I complained about it early on. It’s still not what I’m considering a front runner. I did actually have better luck with it this time. I send a chip brush. Apply one coat, it’s really “streaky”. Second coat on heavy with light brush pressure using just the tip of the brush. Then just minor touch up before removing tape. Much better this time than when I painted under the bunks, crash chamber, and under anchor winch. It’s cheap and sold near me. I might use it again inside compartments if there are any more to paint.
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Rustoleum Marine is tough stuff, but it does have the reputation of being 'see-through'. I tried the dark blue on a boat once and gave up on it ...
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The change in temperature has really slowed me down. I finally have my dinette all put together. It needs one more fillet and it is all done. I may tape some of the edges after a round over with the RO sander. I think I will cut a couple hatches into the front seat of the dinette. My seat arrangement will make it tough to use the storage without hatches.
I finally installed the refer components and glued the bin in. Here is the evaporator.
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Here’s some progress pics of the refer install
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More pics
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https://youtu.be/MeP7X1K3v5c
Here’s a link to a conversion to use SEC. my install was very much the same
Here is the compressor home this morning
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That's looking great. Now that you are this far in the process, would you build a refer box from scratch again or find a ready built one if you were to do it again?
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Yes i would do it again. More insulation, precisely fits the space, can use as standard ice box in a pinch, it will hold 25+ gallons of liquid in a pinch, the cold wont fall out when you open the door, you can hose it out and drain it down using the piped drain fittings, and lastly I dont have to bend over to use it!
HTH
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Yes i would do it again. More insulation, precisely fits the space, can use as standard ice box in a pinch, it will hold 50+ gallons of liquid in a pinch, the cold wont fall out when you open the door, you can hose it out and drain it down using the piped drain fittings, and lastly I dont have to bend over to use it!
HTH
You're doing a very nice job on it too. Well thought out ... :)
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Yes i would do it again. More insulation, precisely fits the space, can use as standard ice box in a pinch, it will hold 50+ gallons of liquid in a pinch, the cold wont fall out when you open the door, you can hose it out and drain it down using the piped drain fittings, and lastly I dont have to bend over to use it!
HTH
You're doing a very nice job on it too. Well thought out ... :)
I'm impressed! That would take me so much research to figure out how to build.
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Nahhh, if you can build a boat......
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I noticed my perfectly flat door somehow ended with about a 1/8” belly in it while glassing the outsides of it. This really bothered me and bummed me out. I tried supporting it on the very ends and putting weight on it and no results.
So. I put a stud in the rafters over the freshly glassed door and set a bottle jack under the stud before the glass was cured. Jacked it out of whack by about 1/2” the other way. Left town for three days. Came in today with my fingers crossed. The jack had let off in that time, but I was pleasantly surprised to see the crown gone, but also arrow straight. I guess the sun does shine on every dogs ass once In Awhile. I remembered someone else a year or so ago trying to save a warped panel of something just not who. Anyway. Hope someone finds this useful!
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I noticed my perfectly flat door somehow ended with about a 1/8” belly in it while glassing the outsides of it. This really bothered me and bummed me out. I tried supporting it on the very ends and putting weight on it and no results.
So. I put a stud in the rafters over the freshly glassed door and set a bottle jack under the stud before the glass was cured. Jacked it out of whack by about 1/2” the other way. Left town for three days. Came in today with my fingers crossed. The jack had let off in that time, but I was pleasantly surprised to see the crown gone, but also arrow straight. I guess the sun does shine on every dogs ass once In Awhile. I remembered someone else a year or so ago trying to save a warped panel of something just not who. Anyway. Hope someone finds this useful!
Nice work! Good story and info that may come in handy someday, I hope not:)
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Todd, I must be missing it, I feel like I saw it somewhere but can't find it now. What kind of foam are you using for your refer?
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I used 3 inch polyisocyanurate foil each side paid a little extra for something that could be exposed on one side. It was faced white. What are you up to?
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I used 3 inch polyisocyanurate foil each side paid a little extra for something that could be exposed on one side. It was faced white. What are you up to?
Thanks... I am going to be building a fish/ice box under the cockpit sole, and probably a fridge like yours but I am holding off on any building out inside the ph until I get the exterior finished. I am gearing up to do the fish hold tho, so putting together a plan of sorts for that. I think polyisocyanurate was what I was planning on using, but wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something silly that I was going to regret later.
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All I can say is it sands Nice and
takes epoxy.
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All I can say is it sands Nice and
takes epoxy.
that's all one can hope for right? :D
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What thickness. I too want to insulate a big fish box between the stringers
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I was thinking about doing 2". The space starts to get pretty small though, even with my cockpit sole raised by 5" taking off 4" for foam thickness doesn't leave a lot, so I might do 1".
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Brian, any issues with shoving the web stringers up against the under deck piping? I would only be able to tape one side. Looking at all this glorious space to put stuff.
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The web stringers are there primarily as a deck support, much less as a boat strength item. You can pretty much put them anywhere in the 'middle third or so' between the main stringers and the chine ... just eliminate deck flex and you're good to go.
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One more compartment all but rapped up
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Looking good! You're doing nice neat work ... pride of ownership :D
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I'm looking at trying g my hand on some bright work. I need a sexy vaneer to skin the cabinet doors and a few other things. It probably needs to be 1/4" to to caver the hinge pockets. Or I do a pseudo raised panel, which doesn't seem very boaty to me. Or I find different hinges. These self closers wont allow the doors to slam. I like that.
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Doors ready for hinges. I’m mostly happy with the way the corners turned out. That was the most difficult part of the project. All glasses up I’m about a sexy 1/8” gap. I have all the hinges and hardware on hand just need some time. I’m temporarily out of plywood so wrapping up a few loose ends.
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Galley sink plan
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Coming along nicely Todd. I hope 1/8" is enough gap for your door, you will know once you get the hinges installed. You did not ask but I will give my 2c, you may already know this.
Hinges will have some play so when you drill / mortise the holes make sure you pre-stress the hinges. I believe I installed hinges on the door first then wedged the door in place then pulled (spread) the upper hinge and made a pencil mark and pushed the bottom hinge together and made a pencil mark. Then lined up the mortise jig to those marks.
Jig was easy to make.
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What do you mean prestress the hinges?
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All hinges have some movement, use this to your advantage. The pic below does not mean pull out and push in on the same hinge, top hinge gets spread and bottom hinge gets compressed. When you pull the shims after installing the hinges the door will settle a little, you may also want to compensate a little when shimming.
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Ok. I see what you mean now. Thanks
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I hung the house door. I’m happy with the reveal around the door. The hinge mortises were a rascal since not everything was flat.
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I played around with the router guide bushings. I used 1/16” offset to make a pattern for my hatch hinges and pulls.
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Great job Todd,
I see my advice was not needed and there are more than one way to skin a cat! Kudos to you!
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It all boiled down to having the fasteners hidden with the door closed. Make it take an extra minute to gain entry when the door is locked and we are away. Now I see I just changed the spot To break into. Just pull the door handle off, better pack an allen wrench I guess
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I finished mounting the rest of the PH door hardware. I’m very pleased with the way the lock set in the door turned out. It was a lot of chisel work.
What I learned today. Bigger door gap would have required less chisel work. The striker plate had to be mortised below the surface of the door jamb. It’s because the Perko doorknob when turned all the way leaves the little doohickey proud of the edge of the door. See the pic. Also the striker plate is not wide enough for a door this thick. It’s leading edge is nearly flush to the aft side of the ph bulkhead. It’s not the end of the world, but I would have preferred it looked more like what I expected it should.
Also, the directions were not clear that the holes that need to be drilled flip flop if your door swings the other way. I spent a bunch of extra time enlarging a hole that was too small.
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I ran the water piping and everything attached to the shower sump. The very moment I drilled the first hole in the side of the boat it occurred to me the sump is just extra parts and really not needed. I could have just piped the drain to the thru hull. Anyway, at least I can still hose the fridge out And have it drain overboard and not into the bilge. As designed the bilge should stay dry. The rotopax tanks look like they will work great.
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I had someone from the other boat building site inquire about my door. So I post some pics here. Couldn’t find a way to do it it in a IM. Since this is not my design I did give credit where credit is due. Thanks again Rbob
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I just got back 2 of the 3 solicited quotes for my windows package. I received quotes back from Wynn and Motion. One came in at 3700$ and change and the other at 3800$ and change. At these prices it might boil down to shipping costs. As far as I’m concerned 90$ difference isn’t really worth fussing over. There is a place in Portland named Bounty marine that I have looked into, but hav t heard back yet. That would be handy as they are close. More to come as I get more info
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Todd,
One more place I just remembered to get windows, Bounty Marine:
http://www.bountymarine.com/pagethree.shtml (http://www.bountymarine.com/pagethree.shtml)
Thanks to Jeff "JG" in Oregon City.
Bounty Marine, Inc.
11135 SW Industrial Way
Bldg.10 Bay 4
Tualatin, OR 97062-9682
Phone: 503-692-4070
Fax: 503-692-4075
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Haven’t heard back from Bounty. Need to reach out again
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One more bit of boat candy arrived today. Door to door in under 24 hours. Amazing.
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SWEET! You're going to love it!
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Nice heater!
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It’s pretty big! It won’t fit where I wanted to put it
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Nice heater!
Just a little jealous, been looking at those!
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I saved you one!
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Todd j --
Re 24 hr delivery.
Twice I've bought fiberglass from <fiberglasssupply.com>, selected standard or base shipping option and the stuff arrived the next day or second day out max. The caveat is that both of us are in western WA, so I donno to what extent that experience applies to other long distance locations.
BTW, their web site sucks, but their customer and tech support is excellent.
te
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I agree that the website sucks too. Just for arguements sake I live 15 miles west of west eugene. In oregon. The folks on the phone are super great. I have never priced product elsewhere. I like fiberglass supply. I got my Viking next day too.
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What is everyone doing for deck fills. I don’t really want plastic and I can’t find squat. I like these
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What is everyone doing for deck fills. I don’t really want plastic and I can’t find squat. I like these
I ended up going with a cheapie on amazon, I needed a 2" barb so my choices were limited. Easy part to replace if it sucks.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07QJ37H9D/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1
Question for you Todd - who did you deal with for your seat? I have emailed Bentley's twice for no response, wondering if you have a contact over there or if you just called or emailed?
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About the seat. I just called and talked to who ever answered. I was pretty easy. Never did the email thing.
About the deck fill. Do you need to run a separate vent overboard? Or is yours a vented deck fill?
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About the seat. I just called and talked to who ever answered. I was pretty easy. Never did the email thing.
About the deck fill. Do you need to run a separate vent overboard? Or is yours a vented deck fill?
Groovy, thx! I was thinking about a vented fill but just got a dedicated vent from go2marine or somebody like that and ran the 2 lines to a tee and then going to put them to the vent on the side of the hull near the fill and leave the fill separate. I couldn't find anything like the one you posted that looked decent that fit a 2" hose.
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Groovy, thx! I was thinking about a vented fill but just got a dedicated vent from go2marine or somebody like that and ran the 2 lines to a tee and then going to put them to the vent on the side of the hull near the fill and leave the fill separate. I couldn't find anything like the one you posted that looked decent that fit a 2" hose.
[/quote]
I have read a few times the vent should not be near the fill. I can't remember exactly but seams like it was at least 12" away. I need to find that info again also pretty soon. Are you using the carbon canister in the vent line? I will try to post where I got my SS fill caps soon.
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Chuck ... You might be remembering Dan Boccia's advice to keep the vent line away from the fill ...on the tank itself. If they're too close, the fuel rushing in tends to back up into the vent line and bugger up smooth filling. On the other end, where the vent line goes, you definitely also want to keep the fuel out of the vent line but this is generally not a problem, even with combo fill/vent fills since the gas hose sticks into the tube ... the combo vent on the fill is above all that.
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Are you using the carbon canister in the vent line?
That's the missing piece. Thanks for pointing that out...
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I didn’t see anything in abyc fuel regs mentioning a carbon canister. It’s a dull read but there is useful info there.
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About the seat. I just called and talked to who ever answered. I was pretty easy. Never did the email thing.
About the deck fill. Do you need to run a separate vent overboard? Or is yours a vented deck fill?
Groovy, thx! I was thinking about a vented fill but just got a dedicated vent from go2marine or somebody like that and ran the 2 lines to a tee and then going to put them to the vent on the side of the hull near the fill and leave the fill separate. I couldn't find anything like the one you posted that looked decent that fit a 2" hose.
I think each tank should have a stand alone vent. Unless you have 2 vent fittings on the same tank. Not sure where your tee fitting is. Just my humble opinion
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I think each tank should have a stand alone vent. Unless you have 2 vent fittings on the same tank. Not sure where your tee fitting is. Just my humble opinion
Both vents are from the same tank so I am not opposed to running them together...
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That makes sense
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I didn’t see anything in abyc fuel regs mentioning a carbon canister. It’s a dull read but there is useful info there.
The carbon fumes-absorber gizmo is NOT REQUIRED unless you are building boats commercially, e.g. registered with the USCG as a boat manufacturer.
I doubt the sheriff or the DMV, or even the USCG is going to inspect for these on a boat in your possession. The USCG conducts inspections at the boat manufacturer to make sure they understand what the rules are and are following them. Even then, unless they show up at just the right time, the boat's either gone or still in construction ... "not done yet" is a fair answer. I doubt there are any rules, unlike catalytic converters, that says an owner has to leave it in the boat and can't yank it out. Dunno ... but read the rules carefully, and if you're a homebuilder and will get a homebuilt type HIN, then you're off the hook.
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I didn’t see anything in abyc fuel regs mentioning a carbon canister. It’s a dull read but there is useful info there.
The carbon canister is an EPA requirement from what I read but maybe it's a recommended thing. I can't say 100% about much unless you want to talk commercial cabinet making.
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Maybe not required but there are more than one option of you want to comply with epa certification: I cant believe I said the word "comply", I despise that word!
http://www.moellermarine.com/regulationsoverview/2011-regulations-simplified/evaporative-emissions/ (http://www.moellermarine.com/regulationsoverview/2011-regulations-simplified/evaporative-emissions/)
http://www.moellermarine.com/regulationsoverview/2011-regulations-simplified/ (http://www.moellermarine.com/regulationsoverview/2011-regulations-simplified/)
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Maybe not required but there are more than one option of you want to comply with epa certification: I cant believe I said the word "comply", I despise that word!
http://www.moellermarine.com/regulationsoverview/2011-regulations-simplified/evaporative-emissions/ (http://www.moellermarine.com/regulationsoverview/2011-regulations-simplified/evaporative-emissions/)
http://www.moellermarine.com/regulationsoverview/2011-regulations-simplified/ (http://www.moellermarine.com/regulationsoverview/2011-regulations-simplified/)
Carbon canisters are an easy install just a little spendey at $160 each x2 when you have 2 tanks
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Whatever way you've chosen, your work looks great.
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Thanks Helen, welcome.
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pulled the trigger on my windows yesterday. I ended up paying 3977$ i used motion windows. I solicited quotes from Motion, Wynn, and Bounty Marine.
Wynn quoted me a per window price based on a similar job in a email. It was not a quote with a number I could order from and was a little open ended.
Motion provided a pro looking quote with each window cost broken out separate by size, and I
was able to order from the quote number they provided. Motion and Wynn were within a 100$ of each other. They both replied within 2-3 days. Bounty was in the process of relocating his operation so I understand a little bit of less than timeliness on his end. I had to remind him twice that he never sent the quote he promised the friday before. Turns out this guy is a friend of a friend. So I expected him to be more interested in my business. I didn't expect any special treatment, but it was clear he didn't have time for me or want my money, not sure of which? His quote was similar to the quote from Wynn. It was clear he was just SWAG-ing the numbers based on the perfect rounded up to the next hundred dollar price per window X 10. He was nearly 2K above the other manufacturers.
Jeff, and Tim at motion have been great to work with and I would say give these guys a shout when you are ready for windows. HTH someone
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You will be happy,
I ordered from Jeff at Motion also, they were 12 weeks out a couple weeks ago.
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The Bounty guy ... yeah, he may have temporary excuses, but a short communique is very easy to do ... I'm with you and believe that the lack of attention and customer service should not be rewarded by giving him your business. That's how we vote in a capitalist society ... dollars don't go where the product or service is lacking, and instead go to support those with the quality, price, and service is better. That's healthy for all but the undeserving poor performers. Right?
I've had good experience with Wynne and have always recommended them. Glad to hear that Motion is a good competitor in all ways. That's healthy too ... keeps the quality high and prices low. Well, not as high anyway!
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Guess I better increase my window budget, really 12 weeks out that's crazy I had no idea.
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They have a projected ship date mid June. FWIW my budget is already 7K above my projected budget!
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I threw my budget out the window!
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I threw my budget out the window!
Hobbies and fun things are not allowed to have budgets ... it's against the law!
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I shouldn’t say I’m over budget. I just spent a lot of money on stuff I didn’t know I wanted! I’m just glad I’m not in a spot where I’m trying to save money on the build. Yet...?
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I shouldn’t say I’m over budget. I just spent a lot of money on stuff I didn’t know I wanted! I’m just glad I’m not in a spot where I’m trying to save money on the build. Yet...?
And if you hit a budget limit, it's OK to get the boat in the water and useful first, then fill out the details later as budget allows ... many builders are "pay-go" builders that add and enhance as the dollars become available.
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I shouldn’t say I’m over budget. I just spent a lot of money on stuff I didn’t know I wanted! I’m just glad I’m not in a spot where I’m trying to save money on the build. Yet...?
And if you hit a budget limit, it's OK to get the boat in the water and useful first, then fill out the details later as budget allows ... many builders are "pay-go" builders that add and enhance as the dollars become available.
Yes sir!! I'm buying motors instead of paint...hahahaha
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Awesome!! I still have this fantasy of of the joystick control even after the death of Evinrude. The Yamaha version is only 1 billion dollars, so maybe?? Just kidding. I really do like the no hydraulics offered with the steer and wire throttle. Time to start kicking tires. I haven't even built either of my helm stations yet since I don't know what I what I'm willing to pay for yet.
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Awesome!! I still have this fantasy of of the joystick control even after the death of Evinrude. The Yamaha version is only 1 billion dollars, so maybe?? Just kidding. I really do like the no hydraulics offered with the steer and wire throttle. Time to start kicking tires. I haven't even built either of my helm stations yet since I don't know what I what I'm willing to pay for yet.
I'm sticking with old school. Going with Seastar hydraulic steering and mechanical Binnacle. Not only for cost savings but more so because it just like the way if feels more hands on. I'm also a lot better at fixing mechanical stuff myself. Joy stick stuff does sound real cool I will admit. If it wasn't so dang expensive I might go that way. Twins and a bow thruster are the next best thing. Maybe when Brian designs a 45 footer liveaboard I will go with the joystick!!!
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With a single main, there is autopilot and E-anchor and pretty much unlimited boat positioning in current and wind, with Yamaha. Whatever, still a fantasy
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With a single main, there is autopilot and E-anchor and pretty much unlimited boat positioning in current and wind, with Yamaha. Whatever, still a fantasy
A year after spending the money, you'll have forgotten the expense ... well, unless you're married! LOL ... seriously, you recover from the extra expenditure fairly quickly and will enjoy the boat for a loooong time ... keep that in perspective and go blow your kids' inheritance!
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The first shot is the transom and deck and splash well laid out in 2D just like sheet 021a. It seems to work, it also works taking the 4" off the 2 dims. as described in the key notes. I'm using 26 1/8" and 21 3/4" instead of 30 1/8" and 25 3/4". Taking 1 " off for every inch of a 4" jack plate.
The second shot shows the real dim. squared off the router notch in the transom as in intersect the 26 1/8" line as lasered across the boats beam. It should be 21 3/4".
the third shot better shows the vertical 26 1/8" line as it intersects the transom notch for the splash well. 21 3/4" just about puts me at the 30 1/8" mark.
FWIW the sides of the splashwell are 6 degrees off square of a transom that's leaning aft 14 degrees, but I don't see where that messes me up.
The numbers are within a margin of error in my case if I pull the the 21 3/4" dim. from the aft face of the transom.
Anyone know where I'm tripping up here?
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I didn't get out the drawings or CAD files, but at first glance, your reasoning and measurements appear correct ... the fore/aft adjustment versus bracket length is most important so you can tilt your motor all the way up. Use a jack plate and you can tune height as required ... note also that when using a bracket of any length, that the water rises behind the boat around an inch for every 10" of bracket (depends on loading), so you'll be tuning motor height anyway. I highly recommend manual jack plates ... (hydraulic ones just don't get used enough to justify their bulk, weight, and cost ... IMHO). BTW, I *love* seeing a 4" bracket/jack plate used ... keeps the motor close yet gives you the adjustability that you want. Second best bracket/jack plates are the 6" ones.
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It sounds like your not scared! I will look it over again then proceed
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It sounds like your not scared! I will look it over again then proceed
Skeered o'whut? 8) ::)
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On my to do list is find Suzuki rough in dims. I will let everyone know what I find
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well, I called the local Suzi dealer and while they could not find the dims I asked for they were kind enough to measure some boats. They said the smallest dimension in the opening was 3'-6". That's a lot of room To give up! I reread the Dan B thread too. He went 40" and it was not enough room and he said it should be a couple inches bigger. Sooo I'm gonna butcher the transom opening and go with the 42" number. Better to lose a sheet of plywood now, than find nothing works at all after paint.
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well, I called the local Suzi dealer and while they could not find the dims I asked for they were kind enough to measure some boats. They said the smallest dimension in the opening was 3'-6". That's a lot of room To give up! I reread the Dan B thread too. He went 40" and it was not enough room and he said it should be a couple inches bigger. Sooo I'm gonna butcher the transom opening and go with the 42" number. Better to lose a sheet of plywood now, than find nothing works at all after paint.
The good news is that above the top edge of the motor boards (LVL), the transom doesn't need to be nearly so strong as it is from the motor boards (inclusive) downward. If you go wide, change your mind later ... no problem patching in ply to make the cut-out narrower (glass and fair and paint). Same goes for too narrow ... you can cut the cut-out wider after the fact if you need to.
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Todd, I have the Suzuki information you are looking for. Send me a PM and I will send you the file.
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https://www.glacierboats.net/forum/index.php?topic=732.0
is it assumed that the top 2 holes are 2" below the top of the motor cutout for a single main, centered, with 25" shaft?
Thanks
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https://www.glacierboats.net/forum/index.php?topic=732.0
is it assumed that the top 2 holes are 2" below the top of the motor cutout for a single main, centered, with 25" shaft?
Thanks
Yes. That's the standard motor template for 'real' motors :)
Mental picture: Place a metal ruler flush on the bottom of the cut-out ... flush on the wood (the transom slopes aft), slide the template up to the ruler. The template aligns with the bottom of the cut-out / top of the top motor board.
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perfect, thank you..I was worried I may have oops it up when I glued in the aft deck with the raised sloping cockpit deck..Thank you
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perfect, thank you..I was worried I may have oops it up when I glued in the aft deck with the raised sloping cockpit deck..Thank you
It's a good idea to make a couple of templates that you can clamp on the transom and verify that you don't have any motor bolt v. boat part conflicts. A quarter inch here and there can make all the difference!
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Motion windows arrived today. very thoughtful packaging. no product was in contact with other product or the container. well done Motion. I had 2 openings that were snug.
My .02! Round down a 1/16" when you order your windows. Don't round up. I will have to sand the edge of 1 opening and reglass that edge. No biggy, but not necessary if you don't measure too close.
Brian looks like I'm the last one that needs moved to the proper forum
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And my 2c, round up on the thickness in case you want fabric on the inside.
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Yes definitely! I screwed the pooch on that one too
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Todd
This is the trailer info I ordered for a 31' Kodiak
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Thx Chuck. Looks like his prices have changed some since. Everything seems to be going up. I need to pull the trigger on a trailer.
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I have been working on the boat and have not posted any progress pics for some time. You all can look forward to upcoming posts with some pretty incredible progress. Coming soon!
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I was wondering how your project was going, looking forward to seeing a finished boat!
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First of February I glued in the cockpit deck with hatch openings for tank access, fish box, and some storage. I started using what I think is a pretty kickass way to to make hatch openings and perfect fitting doors.
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According to Suzuki I had to upsize my transom opening. This was confirmed by a previous builder.
Notice the supports in the insulated fish box lid. This kid is so sturdy 3 people can stand on it without flex
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Started the splashwell. Then added bilge opening, scupper tubes, and side lockers.
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Built a super strong shelf to hide 2” conduits for passing rigging/wiring
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I built the second station. It will hold 3 batteries if needed side by side on the deck.
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Built a small hanging locker in the cuddy
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I built the 1/4” roof skin on the boat per plan. I made the roof framing 2” at the forward end instead of 1 1/2”. I really wanted a visor on the boat, but something less classic than the design. I took some inspiration from New Creation, one of the nicest Tolman Jumbos around. I used Brian’s instructions for radius corners, but used a slightly tighter bend. I mocked up the visor pieces while the roof was still on the boat since I wasn’t sure I would like it. Then took the roof off and put it on a jig. Finished off the corners, painted it with inexpensive paint. I plan on adding blocking for rocket launcher and life raft. I installed a flange with a well that has scuppers in it. The flange has a tube for wiring to pass through, altogether no water can reach the house with the tower installed
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This is the start of the radar tower project. I’m not sure I like it?
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Dang, that's a ton of progress. Boat's looking great Todd. I think the visor turned out great. Cool combo of the visor on the newport lines.
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Todd,
Your visor turned out great, its a lot of extra work but it is worth it!
The radar tower made my head hurt trying to come up with an idea, maybe I will do something similar.
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Todd,
TYur visor turned out great, its a lot of extra work but it is worth it! Thanks that means a lot coming from you. Yes it is. I bet I spent 100 hrs on it trying to get the sides nice and straight by eye. Sand fill, sand fill, just when you think you have it, one more time around!
I really think this design looks great with the rest of the boat's lines. I'm very happy with the way it turned out.
The radar tower made my head hurt trying to come up with an idea, maybe I will do something similar.
I simplified, a little, the ten sided thingy. Again, a nod to New Creation. Thank you JK. Im not sure having the wings swept forward was the best choice. I really want to like it, I wont know until the boat is out of the shop. Im not going to work on until I can mount it and get a good look at it outside.
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Dang, that's a ton of progress. Boat's looking great Todd. I think the visor turned out great. Cool combo of the visor on the newport lines.
Thanks, I like it a lot too. Really happy with it!
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Interesting. New Creation has also been a big inspiration to my build. Those guys did a great job making the aesthetics of that boat really pop. Cool that I know the name of it now.
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Not sure if you like it? I love it. Very cool design.
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Thanks DJ
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Boat is looking AWESOME! I really like the visor! I skimped out on the visor look, just want to get fishing!!!
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I hear ya. But I won’t make this season anyway. When do you take your boat to Maxxim? I’ll be there Thursday AM to lorded motors and rigging
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I hear ya. But I won’t make this season anyway. When do you take your boat to Maxxim? I’ll be there Thursday AM to lorded motors and rigging
It was scheduled for this Friday, I'm behind a few weeks. Haven't had much help for a while now plus took some much needed R&R
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Ooooh it hurts!!
Today I ordered my power. Suzuki 250 fly by wire with two stations and autopilot. For the kicker I decided on a remote Suzuki EFI 9.9 converted to 20. The configuration I wanted was not available any other way. To control the kicker I will have a tie bar to the 250 and a binnacle and on one or the other helms. I’m leaning toward the forward helm, but I don’t think I have enough conduit ran for that. I really don’t care as long as I can steer both motors from each station. I also ordered my Atlas 4” jack plate. They sent me home with some stuff to play with so can mount stuff and fix holes before paint. I’m In The middle of a porch building project so I haven’t touched the boat in 2 weeks. I’m returning to work in a week and a half. I’m really gonna miss the girl.
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It hurts good tho... Congrats, big step! I am surprised you don't have a conduit for it, it's funny I was thinking I was going really light seeing what you ran... When it's not below deck though there is always a way above (or so I am telling myself hahaha). Your boat is gonna scream!
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I only ran a single 2” pipe under the shelf behind the galley. Maybe that’s enough for hydraulic and the cables. I might try to get another one I there. At each drill a big hole in the cabinet carcass to reach through there.
I added 2 2” conduits from the aft station to the splash well and 1 on the other side just like it
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Cut holes for another 2” pipe behind the galley. I think I will run the kicker from the forward helm. I taped half the roof to the PH. It’s nice working in warmer temps except that it’s warmer!
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Ive finally finished fairing the outside of the PH, hull too, I think. Thats what I said last time!. Been overdrilling holes in lockers for fuel filter, autopilot pump, washdown pump, hatches and the like. The projects seem to be getting smaeller which is a good thing. Power in 4 months-ish. For me its time to close up the splash welland start to build forward station as my made is made up
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It's all that owner's pride of workmanship kicking in ... it makes all projects take twice as long! ;D
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I’ve been working on the steering station inside the Ph. It’s the last bit of construction left. I think. I sat in the Bentley for the first time today. I built a slightly smaller storage seat box to sit on top of the cabinet. It will be removed and modified if I need a seat slider or suspension. She is getting more cozy inside every day!
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Looks like a comfortable seat, nice to see it coming together.
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I think Im going to like it
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Put a few more touches inside the PH. Working on the steering station and had to walk away before I glued in something stupid. Space is at a premium and I want to be comfortable. I haven’t got it figured out yet. I put in some small rod holders. I think they will work well. I hope anyway
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I like the rod holders, it is a better design than what I did. Mine loads from both ends but because of that they are too far apart and I will have to make some kind of center support...
Sometimes its better to stand back and take a break.
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I was surprised by how close together they needed to be. That bit worked out since I put one on each side. It got the forward one on strbrd side further from my head while seated. I made them load from only one end so the reels would not be above any seated positions. Plus there is less headroom below them I doubt I will ever haul 8 rods anyway
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I have finally closed off the transom. My steering station is taking shape. I decided I need a side mount mechanical control for the kicker and not a binnacle mount style. Once I get the dimensions for it I should have some more pics of progress. That stuff really starts eating up space quick.
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Drilled holes in the transom for the jack plate. I made an aluminum template. Glad I did my layout correctly
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Looks like you nailed it (uhh ... bolted)!
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Steering station progress. I haven’t figured out where I need more wood to make it look more finished. Built storage cubbyholes in cuddy. I’m not sure I like them. I think they look funny, but they will do exactly what I need them to do. Put on a small combing if you will around the cockpit sheer.
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You are making good progress Todd, I really like the combing, I wish I had done similar.
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Thank you. I like the way it turned out, I’m hoping it doesn’t become a target for dings and dents. I should have glassed the shelves first for a rot stop. I think I will put two layers of glass on them until I get near the splashwell. I think that is pretty close to the wood bits that need glued to the boat
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I did get one layer of 6 oz. it got too warm to do another layer wet on wet. I was going to wrap them again, but it’s too darn hot to do anything
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Looking Good 👍🏻.
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I made some time for the boat over the weekend. I wrapped one side of the sheer shelves with 10oz x 8 inch tape. I then re-wrapped the combing with 10 oz. 12” tape over the layer of 6 oz. should be good and ding proof. The cockpit sheer to fairbody is double layered for a total of 20 oz on the corners. Time right now is sure at a premium with all the summer stuff to do with fall rapidly approaching!
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Made the trek to Spaniway for some more boat bling. Glad that trip is behind us!
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Todd,
Long drive?
Nice trailer, just need to upgrade the plastic license plate bracket.
If the fit will be anything like mine, I would lower the back bunks and raise the front as the front crossmember will have contact. I had to load, unload mine 3 times which I did not enjoy one bit.
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Plenty long enough in that loud sweat box. Need to educate myself on whether or not I will pay the license fee or not. I’ve yanked the plate from every trailer I have owned and never looked back. This is Oregon mind you.
Thanks for the tip on loading!
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I finally have all the exposed wood, corners and edges taped and smothered in glass bubbles. I think I’m done adding bits to the hull. I keep saying that. It’s waterproof now
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Todd,
Long drive?
Nice trailer, just need to upgrade the plastic license plate bracket.
If the fit will be anything like mine, I would lower the back bunks and raise the front as the front crossmember will have contact. I had to load, unload mine 3 times which I did not enjoy one bit.
I'm getting ready to move my bunks also. I was just going to raise the front and leave the rear one as is, Thought that might be enough. Did you try that first in one of your load and unload trips? I don't want it to high in the front but I only want to do it once!!! Sounds like you already know why
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Yes, I had to do it more times because I did not lower the back, if you think about it the back being lower will help launching.
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Robert, did make any recordings of your trailer bunk set up? I think our boats are close enough, that what works for you should work for me. I’m interested to know what Chuck and Robert have to say about axle placement. I don’t think my truck set up as is would take the tongue weight that Chuck described. If I recall correctly my axles can only move forward about 12-14” before they cannot go any further.
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Keep in mind when you put your outboard on the CG will slide further aft, I put a huge anchor puller on the bow of mine plus have a lot of things sitting in the cuddy, once I pinned the outboard on the back the tongue weight seemed to get in line (800lbs vs 1280), at least enough to hopefully let me pull it with my current truck in the meantime. On my trailer I could move the whole boat aft by a couple feet as well, I think I would definitely do that before I started moving the axles. I think Chuck put all of his house electrical in the cuddy as well, plus his boat is just a tank, so I would think that unless someone is building really heavy they aren't going to have a 1400 lb tongue weight. I also had to keep my rear bunks as high as they came, because the boat barely clears the metal over the wheels. My manufacturer had to send me longer pieces to raise the front bunks high enough to compensate.
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I am not going out of my way to build the boat lite. I am concerned about the 1000+ pounds of fluids in her belly. Using Brian’s 60% COG formula I am pretty darn close. My tow rig is a 78 F250. Few cab with front and rear sway are and airbags.
I think I can lower my fenders some if needed. Me, Chuck, and Rbob have the same trailers I think.
When I told the dealer about the issue we were having hitting the front crossmember he acted like I was a dufass for bringing it up. I guess it’s not supposed to be an issue if the trailer is set up right according to him.
I’m thinking high in the front and low as I can at the rear. I’m not above notching the bunks if needed. But that’s a after it’s on the trailer kinda job.
He did mention cutting in a notch on the top of the bunk in front of the transom so I could slide a strap through if I ever needed to lift the boat off. Not a bad idea, but I doubt I will do that.
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I love the truck ... :D
On the COG 60% thing ... note that as these boats are made longer per instructions, it's the aft half of the boat that's stretched. This has the secondary effect of shifting the center of buoyancy aft a few inches as well ... if you're building longer than 28' or so, hedge your bets a bit and use a bracket or jack plate or bigger motor or tanks shifted slightly aft to move the CG a bit aft as well. These are lightweight boats for their size, so you have to pay slightly closer attention to some details .... but that's why you get better mileage, like twice that of your neighbor's fiberglass or aluminum Float-tel ... :D
PS: I've taken notes on lots of things over the last several months and am planning on a mid-winter plans update, perhaps even including the extended-hull swim platform mod, but definitely expanding and adding to a few things here and there ... thank you to all those that participate here and have contributed to the group's knowledge base
Brian
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Brian, I like the truck too, I haven’t been in love with it for a long time. It’s old, tall, loud, hot, cold and bumpy. It’s sheet metal to me anymore. Cruddy thing is I need double what’s it’s worth to replace it with something I probably won’t like.
I’ve given up on the idea of a new truck. Built a boat instead. It was going to be for my retirement. As it happened I retired a month ago and no boat. Who’s complaining though
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Trucks are for duty ... you don't want no "gentleman's truck" (car in disguise)...
No boat ... yet :)
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Been sanding my ass off. Looking forward to seeing this thing in primer.
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Looks like you're doing a great job!
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I like the coaming in the back, that looks great. Also, sanding looks great, you are getting there... You are going to have to sand the primer coats anyways, why not slap them on now? Are you going to use a high body primer as a base or just the 442 finish primer? 442 could probably work pretty well to add some body unthinned, not sure the price point between that and the actual purpose-built high body primers offhand...
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I still have some more fairing to do. It’s minimal, but it’s real! I have been threatening to order paints and primers for a month. I’m still finding little epoxy goobers and smears all over inside. I’m mental. Thanks, I like the small cockpit combing too. It will keep any fuel spills and rainwater and anything else from entering the cockpit. Plus I think it looks cool and adds a heavier looking edge the the sheer decks
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You'd be surprised at how much water (etc) will stay out of the cockpit with even a small coaming... always worth having
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I really like that look!!
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Thanks Chuck. I really like it too. With 2 layers of 10oz tape it should be pretty thought too.
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Your making great progress, the pain will be in the past soon.
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Had the kiddo help me with a couple paint scheme mock ups. Feel free to comment!
I like the black bottom paint that roughly follows the spray rails. I painted the bottom with ablative paint at the waterline, pretty much by the plans. I did add a bit extra up the sides just in case. If Alexseal paint is capable of being immersed I will likely not follow the spray rails even though I think I like it better.
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If you do #2 we will be twins.
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Dude, is it even a question? Last one! I want to see it!
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In reality tho - a couple points of feedback about them... Following the chine/spray rails - much easier. You can do waterline but need to make sure to get it level, it's a pain. In your confined space it's going to be a pita but maybe with a laser level doable, I used that for mine but came up 1/2" or so off at the bow and... had to compensate. I think you will be happy with whichever you choose, they all look bangin imo. Don't get the hairbrained idea to do a bootstripe unless you want to add some time/hours. Mine turned out not well and it took me another good chonk (good thing your artist didn't give you that option ;) ). I gave up on the striped bootstripe quickly into it. Flames and fire coming off the prop would be probably unmatched forever in the GA world. Your artist did a lot of blue, not sure you can go wrong with that. Lighter/more bright colors are probably more visible in the event of someone needing to find you, unless you don't want to be found... I think if I put my sarcastic bone to the side for a minute I am a fan of #5
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How’d I do?
It’s as perfect as humanly possible. Turned out great, as I said above, I went further up the sides than Brian suggested just to be safe
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You got it, let me walk back my words. :) Idk, I felt like getting that right was a pretty big pain, maybe I am just a bit challenged though, I spent a lot of time adjusting tape and replacing it.. plus getting it to stick over the chine junction was irritating. I guess maybe I am just jaded. :) Have you tried that with the boat right side up? Asking for a friend...
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You got it, let me walk back my words. :) Idk, I felt like getting that right was a pretty big pain, maybe I am just a bit challenged though, I spent a lot of time adjusting tape and replacing it.. plus getting it to stick over the chine junction was irritating. I guess maybe I am just jaded. :) Have you tried that with the boat right side up? Asking for a friend...
Haha tell your friend, “that’s a hard no!”
I used a line laser and was very careful when I switched sides. I also did it with the blinds closed and lights off. Makes a big difference when the laser is crisp
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Ya, no doubt. Some tape and time isn't the end of the world, get it right and paint, and no one will be the wiser. I have a lot of opinions, a lot of them are pretty wrong a lot of the time lol.
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I’m kinda liking the first one
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Boat builders ... especially builders of BIG boats ... have a special kind of resilience ... be proud and look forward to enjoying the fruits of your labor. You are accomplishing a Big Task that you'll never forget!
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Amen!
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Boat builders ... especially builders of BIG boats ... have a special kind of resilience ... be proud and look forward to enjoying the fruits of your labor. You are accomplishing a Big Task that you'll never forget!
👍
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Boat builders ... especially builders of BIG boats ... have a special kind of resilience ... be proud and look forward to enjoying the fruits of your labor. You are accomplishing a Big Task that you'll never forget!
I can whole heatedly agree with that!! Mine is living in her moorage spot 24/7 now. I love just going down to the docks and hanging out. Lots of folks to talk too and they all love boats, especially mine:) Always something to be working on, its a blast.
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Still playing with making it ready for paint. As I sand my fingertips off I found my air powered die grinder with a carbide burr works great for inside corners where it’s hard to reach. It’s easy to control and does a great job where bulkheads meet the deck and you have a 3 way inside corner. I wish I would have used it sooner!
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I have been using one of these to smooth out my fillets if I don't get to taping them while they are wet, works great... I might have to get one of those die grinders tho, as corners are kind of it's kryptonite.
https://www.amazon.com/WEN-6307-Variable-Detailing-Sander/dp/B072Q2FTLY/ref=asc_df_B072Q2FTLY/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309802506143&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=400276441695278918&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9031600&hvtargid=pla-588003624477&psc=1
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I have been using one of these to smooth out my fillets if I don't get to taping them while they are wet, works great... I might have to get one of those die grinders tho, as corners are kind of it's kryptonite.
https://www.amazon.com/WEN-6307-Variable-Detailing-Sander/dp/B072Q2FTLY/ref=asc_df_B072Q2FTLY/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309802506143&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=400276441695278918&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9031600&hvtargid=pla-588003624477&psc=1
I got one of these early on in the build. It was my go to tool for many reasons!!!!!
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I got one coat on the top side of the house. It is Alexseal super build 302. It’s fairly easy to roll on and it doesn’t have near the fumes of other products I have used. I cannot get full hide with one coat. Alexseal recommended 2 coats, but I’m not really sure what difference it makes if the finish primer doesn’t require this step. Super build 302 is however recommended to seal fairing compound fwiw. Tomorrow I plan to do the rest of the exterior fairbody.
I think the hide coverage looks better in the photos than in person.
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Since you will be blocking this primer you will definitely want to put on 2 coats so you will have something to sand. I tried to get away with one coat of primer on one side because I ran out or primer and after blocking I had to order more primer and re-prime that side.
Good to see you making progress.
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Lookin good! If you think you are getting horrible hide on the 302 wait until you start slapping the 442 finish primer on... It's like rolling non-fat milk mixed with water on haha. I ran into problems painting over some fixes with unsealed fairing compound, basically a rough spot where it wasn't sealed. Sealing it with build primer is probably a good way to go.
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Thanks for the tips. It looks like the product is going further than I anticipated. So I will get it on another coat with enough left over to maybe do some stuff with it inside.
Got once around the exterior fairbody. I’ll hit it again tomorrow. Probably. Lightly scuff the house and recoat it after. I’m not sure if that’s needed or not
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Second coat of primer on outside of fairbody. Huge difference in the amount of color showing through. I have some annoying little bits that need fairing. Some weave less full than what’s next to it.
I noticed the 4” mohair rollers seem to work better if you change them out frequently. Better more even coverage. And they won’t shed.
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Those are great close-ups ... very helpful, showing what you can see if you're actually there :D
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Half our loot today!
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I wish I had dungeness off my coast. That looks like a tasty bag.
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We got 36 more next day. They are the best!
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I blocked one side of the boat yesterday. I used 80 grit and will chase that with 150. The 150 is just not sufficient to cut the primer in my opinion.
First pic I started and forgot the guide coat. You can see how much more primer is removed with guide coat
Second pic illustrates how little guide coat it takes to get it to work. I sanded through the primer a bunch and still have a lot of lows to fill
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Before and after. Final fairing!!!!
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Looking good! I don't envy you, that part sucks haha... So much sanding... Feels good when it finally all comes together though.
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I skinned my cabinet doors today. I’m excited to see finishes come together.
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Great work! It'll really show after you get that first coat of primer on, even more after painting.
Hmm ... I sorta expected the coffee mug in the 'before' picture to be replaced by a beer mug in the 'after' ... :D
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I ran out of reducer before I could put on another coat of primer. Wet on wet. I bought more reducer. Now I gotta sand the mofo again. Not pleased with myself for that one. So tired of sanding I’ve been doing other dingbat touch up and painting the underside of hatches and whatnot
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Sounds familiar! Hang in there you are closer than ever!
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Got the ph primed inside.
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Todd,
Wow! You have been busy. Nice to see someone making progress.
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Thanks, I hope others are progressing too. I debate will I or won’t I post progress. It’s pretty boring around the forums lately.
I try to do something every day. Having every day in front of me and fishing season behind me takes the pressure off. It’s pretty awesome taking weekends “off” from the project. Having said that, there is no word on my outboards so why rush. I just hope they come in so I can use the boat this June.
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Thanks, I hope others are progressing too. I debate will I or won’t I post progress. It’s pretty boring around the forums lately.
I try to do something every day. Having every day in front of me and fishing season behind me takes the pressure off. It’s pretty awesome taking weekends “off” from the project. Having said that, there is no word on my outboards so why rush. I just hope they come in so I can use the boat this June.
Keep posting! Lots of views...
Plans sales have slowed quite a bit since Biden got the seat, however he got it. I suspect people, rightfully, feel less confident on this country's economic future ... BUT people are still building, plans still go out, and new builders w/questions show up all the time.
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Todd, Looking real good your getting so close to the finish line. Keep plugin along, I was shocked at how much work was left after the painting.
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Thanks, I hope others are progressing too. I debate will I or won’t I post progress. It’s pretty boring around the forums lately.
I try to do something every day. Having every day in front of me and fishing season behind me takes the pressure off. It’s pretty awesome taking weekends “off” from the project. Having said that, there is no word on my outboards so why rush. I just hope they come in so I can use the boat this June.
Keep posting! Lots of views...
Plans sales have slowed quite a bit since Biden got the seat, however he got it. I suspect people, rightfully, feel less confident on this country's economic future ... BUT people are still building, plans still go out, and new builders w/questions show up all the time.
New builders with new boats on line soon. Shipping a Kodiak to Alaska tomorrow! Then 1 standard GA up to Washington before months end. The 3rd kit is also a Kodiak that will be staying in Oregon but likely won't start building for a few months.
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Todd, Looking real good your getting so close to the finish line. Keep plugin along, I was shocked at how much work was left after the painting.
I can only imagine. We made a list of stuff I think I need to be safe and happy on The water. Things that could be done after it’s usable. It’s another 20 grand or something stupid.
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I quit counting!
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One more time around
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You're a patient man! It'll be worth it though ... Just figure that you're strengthening up your back, which will be useful for hauling in giant fish ... :D
Looks like you're glad you did the truss work on the shop roof ... you needed that extra height above the boat!
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Looking great Todd! Nice work! Your boat is going to look awesome!
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Turn up the music and hit it!
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You're a patient man! It'll be worth it though ... Just figure that you're strengthening up your back, which will be useful for hauling in giant fish ... :D
Looks like you're glad you did the truss work on the shop roof ... you needed that extra height above the boat!
Yes. This would have been impossible without the countless hours of restoration I did on an old otherwise useless building.
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I payed a grip for the Alexseal products, so I intend to use them. That means 2 more coats of high build primer wet on wet. Another once around with the block. And probably 2 coats of finish primer with another once around with the block. At least I shouldn’t have to sand any paint!
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I payed a grip for the Alexseal products, so I intend to use them. That means 2 more coats of high build primer wet on wet. Another once around with the block. And probably 2 coats of finish primer with another once around with the block. At least I shouldn’t have to sand any paint!
I think you are still going to want to sand your paint too before your final coat to get the best finish. The flaws are amplified each coat, so what worked best for me was to get a solid flawed base of paint built up with like 3 or so coats (orange peel, sags, etc), then give it a sand all around being careful not to blow through the color, touch up, sand that, and then put on the final coat. In any case, each step you are one step closer. I just spent another $600 on more 442 primer, converter, and thinner. Stuff is not cheap...
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It’s not cheap, it so far it’s been decent to work with. I used the same supplier you did and they have had good service
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Any for reals painters out there?
You can see the area that still has the guide coat on the radiused corner. It clearly defines where the edge of the fairbody and the edge of the sheer “fade away”. The sheer and PH are the same color...white, while the fairbody is a different color... mint blue.
Where should one end and the other begin? My instinct is to run the sides just over to the sheer so the break is usually less visible. Unless inside the boat I guess?
Suggestions?
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Todd,
You can run the paint (no pun intended) just over the edge, looks good that way. Do you have plans for a rub-rail? You can break the paint under the rub rail, and/or you can add an accent stripe and place a rub rail over the accent color.
Its tough for me to decide, sometimes a non-painter aka "spouse" has a better vision. You can always try drawing it out with colored pencils etc.
Probably not helping I know.
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Rbob You have confirmed my suspicions. I thought a out the rub rail idea. I’m not sure I could pull it off. I still need to consider what happens at the end of the rub rail. I also need to figure out where to break the paint around the transom and splashwell too.
The good news is I have 3 more months on the longboard to figure it out.
Did you use a DA or RO sander at all for your paint project?
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Todd,
Most of sanding down to #220 was done by hand with blocks of different sizes and shapes. After blocking just apply the dry "guide coat" and use a Random Orbital sander (D/A) with a interface pad and #320 - #400 and for corners and edges I put the sandpaper on a piece of scotchbrite. Interface pad is awesome for final sanding.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=sanding+guide+coat+with+interfacepad&&view=detail&mid=0AD5242B2B1E8859BD920AD5242B2B1E8859BD92&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dsanding%2Bguide%2Bcoat%2Bwith%2Binterfacepad%26qs%3Dn%26form%3DQBVDMH%26sp%3D-1%26pq%3Dsanding%2Bguide%2Bcoat%2Bwith%2Binterfacepad%26sc%3D0-36%26sk%3D%26cvid%3DDB6B3234EEF340E0AE7EBD30ACA55D23 (https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=sanding+guide+coat+with+interfacepad&&view=detail&mid=0AD5242B2B1E8859BD920AD5242B2B1E8859BD92&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dsanding%2Bguide%2Bcoat%2Bwith%2Binterfacepad%26qs%3Dn%26form%3DQBVDMH%26sp%3D-1%26pq%3Dsanding%2Bguide%2Bcoat%2Bwith%2Binterfacepad%26sc%3D0-36%26sk%3D%26cvid%3DDB6B3234EEF340E0AE7EBD30ACA55D23)
https://www.amazon.com/Dynabrade-53980-Double-Sided-Hook-Face-Interface/dp/B000GTQRJI/ref=sxts_rp_s_a1_0?crid=32YAWXQMO5NXG&cv_ct_cx=6+interface+pad+hook+loop&keywords=6+interface+pad+hook+loop&pd_rd_i=B000GTQRJI&pd_rd_r=fef2e0b0-358d-4870-83ac-8a0713cbb268&pd_rd_w=of2d3&pd_rd_wg=miavX&pf_rd_p=417cc47b-0c09-4851-92d2-3088b503e056&pf_rd_r=KJ513CZVFB6H9CH2RW7G&psc=1&qid=1640801146&sprefix=6%22+interface%2Caps%2C153&sr=1-1-5985efba-8948-4f09-9122-d605505c9d1e (https://www.amazon.com/Dynabrade-53980-Double-Sided-Hook-Face-Interface/dp/B000GTQRJI/ref=sxts_rp_s_a1_0?crid=32YAWXQMO5NXG&cv_ct_cx=6+interface+pad+hook+loop&keywords=6+interface+pad+hook+loop&pd_rd_i=B000GTQRJI&pd_rd_r=fef2e0b0-358d-4870-83ac-8a0713cbb268&pd_rd_w=of2d3&pd_rd_wg=miavX&pf_rd_p=417cc47b-0c09-4851-92d2-3088b503e056&pf_rd_r=KJ513CZVFB6H9CH2RW7G&psc=1&qid=1640801146&sprefix=6%22+interface%2Caps%2C153&sr=1-1-5985efba-8948-4f09-9122-d605505c9d1e)
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I’ll give these a look. Thank you!
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I’ll give these a look. Thank you!
Imma get me some THX
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3 years ago today I made the first sawdust for my boat. It’s been a long road and a mostly enjoyable trip.
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Ready for another round!
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Your boat is going to look great and I promise your memory of sanding will fade!
How many coats of high build primer will you apply for the final round? I remember you have finish primer and hopefully that is a non-sanding type.
At any rate you are closer than ever and it's a new year.
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Rbob, because I wasn’t looking ahead I have 2 single coats of high build sanded between applications. This time I will apply 2 coats on the fairbody and lower ph side panels, sheer, anchor deck and splashwell. I will use whatever is left where it’s easy to sand if I use it at all.
I do plan to hit my finish primer with 320 as directed. No more blocking by hand. I bought those kick ass pads you suggested. Looking forward to trying them out
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The interface pads that Rbob recommended work great. I sanded 1 side of the hull very quickly and very easily. I have yet to decide how I want to deal with the inside and outside corners.
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Todd,
"I have yet to decide how I want to deal with the inside and outside corners."
What I did on inside corners was wrap a piece of scotchbrite around a plastic tube / dowel etc and attached velcro sandpaper to the scotchbrite. Outside corners is a matter of finesse, long 45 degree passes with a block as you roll over the outside corner, you can finish the outside corner by hand with a piece of scotchbrite with velcro sandpaper attached.
I will try to take a pic tomorrow of the setup that works pretty good.
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Sounds good. I’m working up enough steam to get off the couch and go sand some more
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Todd,
Here are some examples below, try to find a tube in size that is similar to what you are sanding, use guide coat of course and sandpaper grit from #180 (first pass) up to #320 or what ever you decide.
The scotchbrite I use comes in a roll so you can use any length you want but 8-12" is plenty, or just cut up the scotch brite to attach to the length of sandpaper you are using.
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Wow, nice tip rbob... Inside corners are the bane of my existance... outside ones too but not quite as much
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Groovy!! Thanks for the pics
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Better than sanding
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atta BOY!
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... even better on the table!
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So cant wait to do, just that!!! Nice work!!!
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Those big girls are rowdy right now too. Kinda skinny after the spawn. Fish counter check over 150 lings yesterday.
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Those big girls are rowdy right now too. Kinda skinny after the spawn. Fish counter check over 150 lings yesterday.
Ling is one of my very favorite fish ... big chunk fried in a cast iron pan with plenty of Slap Ya Mama ... add eggs and a big biscuit w/butter and raspberry jam and I'm in heaven ... :)
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Those big girls are rowdy right now too. Kinda skinny after the spawn. Fish counter check over 150 lings yesterday.
Ling is one of my very favorite fish ... big chunk fried in a cast iron pan with plenty of Slap Ya Mama ... add eggs and a big biscuit w/butter and raspberry jam and I'm in heaven ... :)
Best Cajun seasoning in the world= Slap Ya Mama
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Just ordered some on amazon will let you know if I agree
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Thats funny,
I have never heard of (Slap Ya Mama) so I looked it up, sounds awesome. I will try it Sunday providing it shows up. 8)
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Thats funny,
I have never heard of (Slap Ya Mama) so I looked it up, sounds awesome. I will try it Sunday providing it shows up. 8)
I'm not really sure what's different, noting that my wife and I have tried virtually every Cajun spice mix there is, but we like Slap Ya Mama (https://store.slapyamama.com/) the best. We tried the 'hot' version (we like hot!) but the 'original blend' version is the best ... if we need more heat, we shake a little cayenne on. BTW, Many stores have it nowadays, or you can order it from any of several sites online ... we buy the 2- or 3-pack big ones.
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Now I have to try the secret spice... Amazon is gonna wonder why it's selling like hot cakes
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I know the pics are no longer exciting to see, but I’m finally ready for finish primer. Thank God! It’s painful, literally and figuratively. Quite a bit more coverage than the first coat and blocking.
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Todd,
It is looking better, every step of the way. Soon you will be out and about pulling fish on the deck and love every minute of it.
Cheers!
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Thanks Robert. I so want to move onto what’re is next! Sanding sucks!!
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I agree with Rbob, looking better every time you post... pretty soon you will be fretting over paint runs and wondering when to call it a day on that front. In any case, you certainly have a great foundation to move onto the next part, and all the sanding you have done so far is in the rear view mirror.
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I blew the boat barn out today. Washed, degreased, and tacked the boat. Got 1 coat of finish primer on the entire outside of the hull and quite a bit of the cockpit. Tomorrow 1 more coat over what I did today.
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That is making great progress and a cleaning a shop out always feels good.
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I went out this morning and realized I forgot to prime the entire front of the visor. DOH!
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After 2 coats of finish primer.
I started blocking the finish primer today. I’m using 320 grit. It seems to be going fairly well.
What causes the paper to get the little clod of material stuck to it that creates a pigtail in the finish. I hate that thing. I have to keep knocking them off the paper and am finding them all over. Some just fall off on their own
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Todd,
re: :What causes the paper to get the little clod of material stuck"
The primer is not cured, wait a day and try it again / add heat.
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Yeah ... ditto. I find that primer can look and feel plenty dry (or cured) yet ball up on the sanding pad. Waiting a little longer is good advice ...
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Okie dokie. Well, it’s a day later and I will try to sand just a bit. I didn’t run any heat yesterday to try to save a few nickels as more home improvements are eating onto the boat build. I added 60’ of concrete to the driveway and bought momma a hot tub she’s been wanting for awhile. Anyhoo, I got the heat on today and will see what damage I can do to the primer. Hopefully time and a little heat will help it cure the rest of the way. I know it’s not the greatest temps for painting. When I do the for reals paintin I may leave the heat on overnight
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Yeah, heat the shop first then paint. You can turn the heat off for a few hours when you paint so you're not moving dust around with the heat (I assume a unit heater w/fan like most shops have). Too cool risks runs ...
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Get you one of those gum sticks from harbor freight. It's great at cleaning out your sandpaper. I couldn't find it on HF website, but my store here has them. Here's an Amazon link to what I'm talking about:
https://www.amazon.com/Cleaning-Eraser-Stick-Abrasive-Sanding/dp/B000H69U7Q?th=1 (https://www.amazon.com/Cleaning-Eraser-Stick-Abrasive-Sanding/dp/B000H69U7Q?th=1)
--dave
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Here is my new house battery next to my old starting battery from my Zodiac
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That looks like a great battery in a relatively small package, I checked the footprint and its not much bigger than a 6v agm golf cart battery, just taller which is good.
Should be power for days!
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Interestingly, it is user serviceable. If needed I could change the bms, or cells as the top is bolted on.
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Wheel house painted. Alexseal Snow White.
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Awesome, looking good! I like the seat system for the passenger, I might have to grab that idea. I have been trying to figure out how to deal with the forward/backward facing seat back, that's a pretty good idea!
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Thanks, My wife had the idea. That’s her contribution. I haven’t figured out how I’m going to mount it just yet
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Yes, it looks awesome. You are making good progress, I like the forward / backward option.
Good going!
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Here’s a couple of the hull. Just one coat. I have another on now. Sand and do again a d the exterior fairbody done. The second pic is looking up at the underside of the pulpit
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Todd,
Looks like a pro did it! You will need sunglasses when its outside.
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Thanks Robert
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Wow! Now that's a mirror finish!
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Guide coat doesn’t lie! I found much much more in the way of flaws in my second finish coat on the fairbody. No dust in the finish but I did a poor job of evenly coating the hull with a second coat. When I sanded prepping for the the final topcoat I did expose some primer in a few spots. I’m hoping that my final (3rd) coat of finish is really the last coat. Alexseal for the most part has been great to work with and I have no complaints.
When I painted the wheelhouse I found dust on the dash and on the helm. It was stuck in the finish and I could feel it after it dried. I suspect it came from the rollers. Fwiw there was absolutely Nothing left behind when I did the fairbody.
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Really nice paint job!!!
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thanks Chuck.
My EZ anchor anchor puller showed today. That thing is one serious piece of hardware!! It should certainly offset some transom weight ;D
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thanks Chuck.
My EZ anchor anchor puller showed today. That thing is one serious piece of hardware!! It should certainly offset some transom weight ;D
Which one did you get? Did you buy your rode/chain/etc yet?
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Pics please.
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Jason, Yes I had it made. They took care of it. Solid piece of rope spliced to the chain. 400’ of rode plus 30’ of chain. They have pretty good prices on spools of rope. They were only 250’ long spools however. I bought the Rebel EZ-4. It’s the smallest winch with free fall as a feature.
Robert here is a pic. I didn’t want to take it out of the box yet.
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Man,
That is a piece of art! Love it!!!
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It is definitely a sturdy piece of equipment. I see now why they are so proud of them. Tomorrow I will take a couple more pics. It’s heavy and there are too much paint fumes out there now
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I'm calling it quits with the paint. I have everything coated except the interior and exterior decks. I'm thinking about doing the cockpit and cuddy decks with a light grey mixed from my leftover black and white.
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Couple more winch pictures
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Panting completed! That is a huge milestone, congratulations on a job well done.
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That looks amazing! Great work! Time to get cracking on putting everything together...
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Thanks guys. I'm a little disappointed in the way the white paint finished out. Lots of little fuzzy POS in the paint.
It's unclear to me how to get rid of them. I think there must be some inconsistencies in the rollers. The fair body turned out nearly perfect. I used the same process to defuzz them EVERY time. At this point it's a good enough for who it's for kind of thing. I'm anxious to get going on the wiring. I finally have all the goodies I want for the boat with the exception of interior lights. This wiring part is the part I am most intimidated by.
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I found the white paint way harder to roll than the gray paint I used, not sure why. Maybe it was hard to gauge the thickness of the coat going on, or a consistency issue with the different pigments. That doesn't sound quite like your issue, but I also found that it looks a lot more forgiving for the eye from shorter distance. Either way, sounds like you got a finish you are ok with, and once you beat it up for a season or two it's probably not going to matter so much. Get cracking on the wiring and if it bugs you down the road you can always touch it up, I did a straight touch up on the starboard side of some thin spots and you can't tell from a couple feet away. Alexseal paint seems good in that regard.
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Maybe I will do a short video of removing dust nibs and buffing, when I get some time.
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I was hoping that I could wet sand and buff it. That is if I can’t live with it. I’m going to be a basket case the first few times out! Dirty shoes, rubbing the docks, someone gaff the side of the boat, dropping lead on the decks or dragging crap in over the side. I guess it’s all repairable
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I was hoping that I could wet sand and buff it. That is if I can’t live with it. I’m going to be a basket case the first few times out! Dirty shoes, rubbing the docks, someone gaff the side of the boat, dropping lead on the decks or dragging crap in over the side. I guess it’s all repairable
You want to know what the loudest sound in the world is? A downrigger ball bouncing off the outside of your hull on your first trip out.... !
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I set my d/r to stop when the balls are 2' in the water. I hate that sound...
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Non skid deck paint going on now. Cockpit is done and and most of the PH. Tomorrow the sheer decks and cuddy roof.
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Todd,
That is going to be sweet! Love you layout.
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I left areas for cleats(yellow tape) and some smooth areas for a railing. After looking at some other boats I think my spots for the railing to attach are too far apart. I put them all in the “shadow” of the window pillars. Either way it will not be slippery.
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You make a great point Todd,
I completely forgot about railing posts vs non-skid placement. It goes to show how much there is to think about.
I am really glad we have a forum and each other to share ideas and different ways of achieving a common goal of building a boat.
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I dont know for sure if i will do a railing, but I do remember someone having to deal with the non skid when they did the railing. I cant take credit for being that smart! More goodies today!!!
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Finally! The boat is painted. I didn’t do the cuddy as I plan on apholstery. If I have enough paint I may do it after all. I’m very satisfied with the non skid job. Just hope it holds up.
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You are getting it done! Looks awesome,
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Drilled a bunch of holes in the sheer for for cleats, the bowsprit and the winch. The winch is gonna be a rascal. I need much longer arms.
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Heck ya, there is no arguing with that setup. That's gonna be killer.
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I may have missed it in the preceding discussion, but what are you using for non-skid?
te
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TE, griptex from awl grip. fine and coarse 50/50
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I started to mount some hinges and pulls to hatches, doors and other stuff. I had some minor annoyances with things not fitting just as they did before paint or potting the screw holes with epoxy. I'm not sure why, but even when predrilled with the correct size bit for the screw I had some screws that just kind of stripped the epoxy and never grabbed. I have no explanation as to why some grabbed, and some did not. Any thoughts??
I am also having a rough time with the pilothouse door. I rehung it without too much trouble, but the striker plate is kind of giving me fits. I fear I will have to move some material and re-epoxy it. Also, I am not so happy with the bulb seal. It doesn't compress enough to close the door, which is adding to my striker plate woes. The bulb seal is getting pinched on the hinge side by the edge of the door instead of the face of the door. Also, the channel that clamps around the flange at 1/4" is a tad scant. I don't think it will last very long without falling off the door opening.
What I learned...
1) I made the door too close to the size of the opening, 1/16"-1/8" gap. 3/16'-1/4" gap all the way around would have been a bit easier.
2) The flange size on the hinged side of the door, that the bulb seal clamps onto should be wider than the rest of the flange. This would have allowed the bulb seal to seal against the face of the door instead of the edge. By doing this you maximize the opening.
3) I think the 3/8" bulb seal is too big and should be 1/4" in my case. I know others have used it and I am curious how happy they are with the installation.
As always, please feel free to comment or offer a suggestion.
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I will give my 2c for what its worth!
1. Stripped screws? Easy, drill it out leaving a little room for the screw to grab at the bottom, a larger hole 2x screw diameter. Pre-wet hole couple coats with q-tip and when good and tacky fill with high density filler and just snug up the screws with hinge attached and let it cure. If you need to move the hinge now is the time, even cut the door back on hinge side to if you need to gain clearance. You may get away with painting the edge of the door only. Clip from Georgeon Book below.
2. Bulb seals have a compression spec, something like 25%. If you remove the seal does the door open/close without binding? Maybe a smaller seal on the hinge side. Its tough without pics.
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I will give my 2c for what its worth!
1. Stripped screws? Easy, drill it out leaving a little room for the screw to grab at the bottom, a larger hole 2x screw diameter. Pre-wet hole couple coats with q-tip and when good and tacky fill with high density filler and just snug up the screws with hinge attached and let it cure. If you need to move the hinge now is the time, even cut the door back on hinge side to if you need to gain clearance. You may get away with painting the edge of the door only. Clip from Georgeon Book below.
2. Bulb seals have a compression spec, something like 25%. If you remove the seal does the door open/close without binding? Maybe a smaller seal on the hinge side. Its tough without pics.
I think I can do something like the in the snapshot you proposed re: the epoxy holes. I discovered another easy solution that cures most of the problems. I can thrubolt the hinges on a couple hatch hinges and that will work better.
The door does not bind and I dont think I need to trim it, but I would never make another one this close to the opening size. Having said that the Perko doorhandle with lock, I think you have one very similar doesnt give a fellow much wiggle room. The curvy part of the striker plate needed to recess into the opening and is flush with the bulkhead, a minor annoyance. The bulb seal touches the interior of the door handle trim plate and uses some room my fingers need to use the small lever to open and close the door. If the door was any smaller there would not be much of the deadbolt and door locky thing into the striker plate. This confirms what I said above about only widening the flange on the hinge side too. In The meantime i will keep the door closed and try to smoosh the seal a bit. I will post up some pics but be gentle ;D
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I had to sink my striker plate to make it close easier.
Trim-lok has a video on choosing bulb size but basically they put clay in 4 corners and measure the thickness, compression of 25-50%
A 1/4" gap would only need a .3 to .37 bulb seal. 3/8" bulb seal, is 50% compression.
Thinking about the door alignment, I just realized your hinges mount on the door jamb opening. In the car world (I adjust doors to fit almost every day) If your top of door is sticking out move the bottom hinges out. I would remove the lower hinge screws pull the door out a bit and install one screw and test how it fits when closed. You may have several attemps to get it right and may use more than one hinge hole since once a hole is drilled it is hard to move it.
On edit, you have 4 hinges so remove the screws from the bottom 3 hinges, I am thinking you should drill. fill all the lower holes with epoxy then make your adjustment that way you could do several different adjustments putting a screw into a fresh hole. With the door open 90 degrees move the lower part of the door away from the jamb maybe 1/8" and fit one screw and test fit without the bulb seal installed!.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NL40XTK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NL40XTK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
Fixed pics:
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Thx, FWIW, I used the same detail you did. I used5/8” as the dimension for the flange on the inside of the opening. For now I’m gonna just run what I brung!
I bet the seal over time will lose some springy-ness and the door will take less force to close as time goes on.
I did not run into the same edge pinch on the smaller PH door. So the extra. Bit of gap made some difference using same flange width. They won’t rattle I bet
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Rbob, I missed the door alignment suggestion when I read this earlier. If I’m understanding correctly you are suggesting moving the door slab further aft everywhere except the top hinge? Is that right?
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re: If I’m understanding correctly, you are suggesting moving the door slab further aft everywhere except the top hinge?
Yes.
Try this, twist the handle and slowly close the door. Does the bottom of the door make contact first? This will make the door hard to close and it will not get better.
An 1/8" out on the bottom hinge is a big movement. You have holes already drilled which is why you will need to fill them.
For starters I would fill the lower hinge screw holes (I would drill your screw holes out to 5/16"-3/8" before filling) then take out the screws on the middle hinges (leave the middle screws out until door is adjusted and fits, then fill them).
Keep in mind with only hinge only you will want someone to steady the door when you remove the center hinge screws and you are ready to drill and install a lower hinge screw
How many screws go in the hinges? 3-4? This gives you 3-4 tries for adjustment. Pull the door out say 1/8" inch at the bottom, drill and install one screw and test the fit without bulb seal in place and turn the handle or take out the latch so it does not fight you when you check the fit.
Once you get the door to fit without binding you can address the striker issue and it may correct itself.
I have large gaps on my door on purpose (maybe a little larger than I would like) The door does not hit anywhere and if my hinges sag at all the door there is no danger of my door hitting the jamb.
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I did a walk around tour of the boat after window install, before I wrapped it up again. I’ve made a little more progress since I shot the video.
https://youtu.be/Ie1HD9-YDu0
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What a great video tour and a great job you have done. You have something to be proud of Todd! Good on you.
Cant wait to see it splash!
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Dang, your boat is looking great! Nice tour, you are gonna be on the water in no time! Certainly got every inch out of your shop hahaha...
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Thanks guys. Without the pulpit I could have built to 28 feet and still had 4 inches to spare. Right now I think I have about 3” to spare if you count what is behind the kicker bracket and in front of the pulpit. As is, I cannot mount the bowsprit without opening the end of the building. It’s tight end to end but it fits!
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Awesome video, what a sweet looking boat. Ya did a very professional job!!!! Well done!!!
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Thanks Chuck
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I did the cuddy trifold. I’m not sure how many others are doing it, but I like it.
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You amaze me again!! So cool, how about a pic in the open position? I may do that later.
Resized pic:
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Coming from you that is quite a compliment. Thank you. I can take a pic of it open. For anyone considering this on their boat.
1) use the thinnest hinges you can find
2) use a thick enough material that you fasteners won’t have penetrate the opposite surface the hinge mounts to
3) build your door capturing thingy after your door is done so your gap is optimal and your door finish will not be abraded
PS. I haven’t forgot about the pic size. Just been making sawdust. It’s more fun
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Door open
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I love how nice and neat, out of the way, the tri-fold door is ... nice job!
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Agreed! It looks amazing, easy open and close. I want one!!
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It would be perfect with a better choice of materials and hardware. I intend to keep it closed so I think this will work for me. The trifold will have to be removed in order to use the flip over front seat to bed conversion.
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Got the word yesterday that my new Suzuki 250 is in. I ordered in July of last year. 11 months, not sure if it will be quicker or longer if I were to order today. Still waiting for the kicker with no real word on a delivery date
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Got the word yesterday that my new Suzuki 250 is in. I ordered in July of last year. 11 months, not sure if it will be quicker or longer if I were to order today. Still waiting for the kicker with no real word on a delivery date
Sweet!!
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Make sure you know how your steering is going to fit before you hang it! :P Are you going to rig it as fly by wire or mechanical?
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Dual helm fly by wire. Ya I’m totally sweating the jack plate thing. If mine doesn’t work we should really get the word out. I’m using atlas. I don’t know if any one else has tried that yet. We will see
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Dual helm fly by wire. Ya I’m totally sweating the jack plate thing. If mine doesn’t work we should really get the word out. I’m using atlas. I don’t know if any one else has tried that yet. We will see
Mine are 8" Steering all worked just fine but the cables out of the motor hit the transom (when trimmed up all the way) so had to raise more than desired. If you turn your motors to one side the cables missed without raising. I just didn't like the idea of always remembering to turn to one side when trimming all the way up.
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Glad it worked for you. I hope to find out soon enough
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I was looking at the seastar pro hydraulic actuator today, it's significantly shorter in the dimension that I am running into problems with with the yamaha electronic actuator. So, unless you are getting an electronic actuator like the yamaha or the one by dometic (the optimus system) you might not run into the clearance issues I am...
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I am using the sea star pro FWIW
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Well as of today my GA is done! Inside anyway. Still need some parts for the Wallas and to build the dinette. Rub rails in the mail. Soon As they are on I’m tugging her out of the boat barn
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Well as of today my GA is done! Inside anyway. Still need some parts for the Wallas and to build the dinette. Rub rails in the mail. Soon As they are on I’m tugging her out of the boat barn
Awesome and congratulations! Can't wait to see pix!
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That’s great! Looking forward to seeing it on the water!
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I got the boat out of the barn. It is ready to be trailered. It took me 10 hrs to get it to that point. Rough day!
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What an accomplishment, congrats!!!
On edit, that was tight!!
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Wow, the boat looks great Todd! Great work! The color choice is killer, turned out very nice...
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Thanks I’m pretty proud of her! Here’s a better picture without all the shadows
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Almost forgot, Todd I love your truck!!
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Thanks, I sure am ready for a upgrade. I’ve gramped out a lot in the last 10 years.
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I remember the day well when it was time to taking the boat out of the shop and onto the trailer in about the same phase you're in. What a MILESTONE!! and awesome Accomplishment!!
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Thx Chuck. I got the radar tower and bowsprit on and all the wiring through the radar tower. Running out of things to do!
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I did get the trailer under her and gave the girl a bath.
I’ve been trying to insurance as it’s not leaving the place until it’s covered. PITA so far. I will let all of you know what I am going thru in a week or two
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Looks so good!!!
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It’s getting there. Thanks
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What type/source are those wipers? They look like they'll work really well...
I agree on the color and your whole color scheme... what a beaut!
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Todd, did you make that radar tower? I remember you talking about the 10 side one from that Oregon jumbo, curious if you built that or found it somewhere...
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Thanks Brian,
Here’s the BOM from the wiper thread. I redlined the parts I didn’t use. It should be noted that the wiper motors listed were fore 5/8” bulkhead. I ended up using the same motors for 2 5/8” bulkhead if my memory is correct. I think it is in the wiper thread a few rows down. They are beautiful and bitchin!
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Json, I took inspiration from the Or jumbo Jklistof’s “New Creation” He sent me a cad file but I could not open or use it. I did make it myself. Mine is really quite different. His, as designed I think is sturdier. I left room for cables to support the wings if needed. I just hope my wings don’t create lift. Mine is 6 sided and the wings sweep forward while the box leans aft.
I wasn’t sure if I would like it, but it is growing on me. Even with the visor, I think it could have been 2-3 inches shorter
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Todd ... those are sweet wipers. Thanks. Duly saved!
I'll post the pick and sticky it in the FAQ as a good example...
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Had the boat surveyed on Tuesday. I went with A Mazon and Associates. Alison seemed quite thorough. She was in, on, and under the boat and trailer for 5 hours. I think I would recommend her to anyone that wants a survey. I expect her report early next week.
She was “observant”, but not critical. I made some super minor mistakes that I will pass on in a separate thread. I’m not sure that I intend to correct a couple of them. I’m guessing we are all guilty of at least one.
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One less hurdle! I am interested in seeing your take on the process for sure.
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Had the boat surveyed on Tuesday. I went with A Mazon and Associates. Alison seemed quite thorough. She was in, on, and under the boat and trailer for 5 hours. I think I would recommend her to anyone that wants a survey. I expect her report early next week.
She was “observant”, but not critical. I made some super minor mistakes that I will pass on in a separate thread. I’m not sure that I intend to correct a couple of them. I’m guessing we are all guilty of at least one.
Holy smokes ... 5 hours ?! I think I'd spend about 5 minutes on the boat ... did she have a mondo checklist or something? Very curious to know what she looked at and what types of discrepancies she noted...
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I’m not really sure. I just let her do her thing as I had plenty to do otherwise. She did have “papers”. She looked at the plans to see how closely I followed them. She took pics of under the boat. Pretty much everything. She had a FLIR that plugged into an iPhone. Could ID hot spots in engine rooms, electrical cabinets, machinery, etc. I’m glad she didn’t use her hammer on the hull.
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I think being a marine surveyor would be fun ...
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Every time I tell the wife I’m done spending money and that the boat is usable as is…. It cost me another grundle of coins. It’s easy not to account for things like 24” life ring, fenders, CO detectors, smoke alarms, and fire extinguishers.
On a positive note, I fired up the wallas Viking today so that’s another win
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I can finally resume my search for Insurance. I got my complete survey from A. Mazon and Associates today. The as is value according to her is 90K. With the engines and electronics installed she values it at $150k. She used Devlin bay cruiser type boats as comps. She provided me a fix-it list. Stuff I have yet to buy for safety. Even noticed there was no tie wire on the anchor shackle.
I thought the boat would come in quite a bit higher with all the top tier gear and extra goodies. I doubt I could replace it for 150K with the prices of materials these days.
Anyway, maybe/hopefully someone will insure this thing and I can get some Zukes on the transom and wet this thing.
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$150k seems... maybe about what I would have thought? Maybe a little higher than I would have thought? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Either way, sounds like you got the survey and insurance bottlenecks cleared, next stop the big blue.
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I weighed the boat today. The dry weight is 4650. With 1250 pounds on the tongue
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That weight must be with motors and brackets, right? More than 25% of the weight on the tongue seems high ... seems like I recall 10-15% is the target. Anyone?
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No motors, no fuel. Just the boat.
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No motors, no fuel. Just the boat.
Yeah, my original calcs were without all the items that go in the boat ... windows, winches, etc etc. ... and for a 27-28 foot boat came out a little less than 4000#, but that's pretty light. If your boat were a glass or aluminum one, it would weigh twice what it does ... which is why these get such better mileage than commercial versions.
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I didn’t intentionally try to build lite, I have some stuff other folks don’t. I think as far as goodies go my list most resembles Dan B. I’m gonna dig up his weight for fun.
As far as tongue weight goes I think it’s too much. Before loading the boat I moved the trailer axles as far forward as I could. With the motor on the back it will help. I don’t think it will completely offset 900 pounds of gasoline but it will help. I do have about 8” of Trailer bunk left over. I will likely shove her back at least that distance at first launch and weigh again.
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If you're going to be "too something" on tongue weight, being heavier on the tongue is FAR safer than having the weight too far aft ... that'll jack knife ya!
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Here’s some pics of my latest batch of finishing touches
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Wow, that looks phenomenal. Thanks for posting pics, giving us some inspiration of what to work towards... :) What kinds of hinges did you use for your cabinet doors?
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Inside I used regular soft close cabinet hinges with a ball catch on each door. The soft closers aren’t really worth the extra money. What the do offer is a little resistance so the doors never slam. I do like that. I am a little disappointed with the drawers. I used the dowel catch at the rear of the drawer. They work as designed, but are problematic with any weight toward the rear of the drawer. A real bugger when trying to open the drawer with the stove in it. The same catch would work fine in the front of the drawer I think and be much easier to lift up and slide out even with them full of stuff.
On the other doors I eased flush mount 1 1/2” SS butt hinges. I do like them.
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Looking awesome! My tongue weight is right around 10% - on the light side, but it's been pulling like a dream, and I've done several 4-hour pulls with it.
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I fully intend to adjust the tongue weight. I just don’t see the point in it until I fuel up and get the Main on. I looked up the weight of yours and you are lighter than me without motors by about 300 pounds-ish. I remember you have a light duty tow rig. I’m beginning to have concerns over the abilities of my old f250 to make the trip to Santa Barbara next October. I’m guessing with 2 more people with dive gear and the boat further outfitted it will add at least another 2000 pounds to the load
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Made a sexy little rod not fall outer thing
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Great idea ... "not fall" is a good plan :D
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I finally got around to sealing up my hatches that are on the cockpit deck. They allow access to the fuel senders and clamps. I used cordstock and provided glue from the local seals company.
I made a router table to oversize the rabbit and filled it with epoxy and then I put in the proper size rabbit
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Screw-down hatches that seal are the only way to guarantee (if possible) keeping water out from under the deck, but still provide you with access when needed. Making your own let's you have a smooth deck too, no trip hazard...
Good on ya!
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Today I finished up the install of my new radar and chart plotter. I also installed the transducer, but my cable is about 6’ too short. At least my radar data and power cables are 45’ long. Easy to shrink the power cable not so easy on the data cable. I sure would like to get rid of the extra behind the dash. It’s kinda fun to get to work on the boat some more. Engines in a week!
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Another milestone!
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Nice! That rigging looks clean, so does your boat!
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Todd,
You have built an amazing boat and the motors are icing on the cake!
I like the rigging tube that is on the kicker, can you share what it is? I can see you have a tie bat set up which works great.
I cant help myself, pic edit:
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Thank you. Im not sure what the used for the rigging tube, but it looked great. When I get it home I can take a closer look.
I lose my patience trying to resize the photos. It’s a pain with what I have. Thanks for the resize!
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Wow, you did a really nice job. Please let us know how you like your throttle position. Having it on that steep face definitely saved you some room for fishing.
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Sure. Will do. My expectation is to use the throttle in its middle third of range at the aft station. With the maximized cuddy and PH I need all the room I can get back there
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Well it was a good news bad news day. Good news my youngest daughter had her first baby on Thursday, a boy. Bad news I missed the wetting of The boat for its shake down cruise. I intentionally didn’t say splash because that’s for me! Notes from the dealer Maxxim Marine, in my case.
1) no discernible lean side to side as equipped
2) can’t feel the boat break plane
3) drives like a sports car, handles like a dream, and takes high speed turns well
4) 42 mph on prop checks without any trim adjustments or jackplate fiddling
Re: jack plates. With the atlas I cannot reach all the way down with engine trimmed up and locked for travel. With the steering hard over as Chuck mentioned you do gain some clearance. For someone not pushing up against overloading the transom I suggest the 4” jack plate and a 2” spacer between it and the transom. That would allow a space for the hydraulic fittings. 3” would be better to allow for the looping radius of the hydraulic hoses.
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Congrats on the grandkid! Sounds like your boat is ready for you to take her out, and sounds like she is a screamer! Interesting stuff about the jack plate, it seems like quite the balancing act to get that all right and working correctly. Aren't you supposed to lower a jack plate all the way down for travel or am I misremembering that?
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That’s what I have said that I remember reading. Well. It ain’t gonna happen.
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Congrats on getter her in the water. She is one more AMAZING GA, such awesome boats!!!!
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I did a dry run overniter in the driveway. I will take her out this weekend to do some engine break in and overnight on the lake. This time of year 2 full days doesn’t satisfy the the time needed with available daylight. We will see how it goes. The fridge and the Wallas were on for about 20 hours-ish. I used about 40 amp hours out of my 200AH SOK battery. I was on and off charging my phone and using some lights along the way.
My initial impressions.
1) the bin style fridge I built works absolutely awesome and doesn’t run much at all. I suspect the way I built it has a lot to do with that.
2) the two cabin lights I installed in the wheel house are adequate. I would not hate double what I have in there now. I really like the lights I used in the v-berth. They can be aimed to any position, are activated by only a touch, have a cosmic blue night light feature and also have usb charge ports, and they turn off by gradually go dim. They are cool!
3) the Wallas howls like a banshee even on low fan setting. It’s really kinda annoying how loud it is. I suspect if I add a register in the PH it would reduce the velocity in the duct and quiet it down. On the thermostat setting it ran at around 40% when set at 95*F. The screen said 94*f cabin temp. It is off by miles. So far I’m not in love with it, but I’m still learning how to work it. I will try to run it manual and see how it goes this weekend as I plan to overnight on the water.
4) like them or not, the Origo works well. I think I’m happy with it. So far…
5) the CO detector went off in the PH. This happened about 3 hours after I finished cooking breakfast. I aired the cabin out and it kept going off. It went off later in the day and my wife could hear from in the house. I took it outside and took the batteries out of it and it seems to be working as expected. I’m wondering if the alcohol from the stove burners could have evaporated and some how set it off. It’s the only possibility I can think of as the Wallas had been off for a long time.
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That's scary/annoying about the CO alarm. Hope you can figure that out. In our previous house one night the CO alarm started going off in the dead of night, every ounce of my being made me want to yank the batteries out of it and go back to bed, but I started looking around and sure enough, the range cooktop burner was left barely on. I wonder if your heater is maybe somehow the culprit... Sounds like you are going to have an adventure regardless. Good luck! Sounds like a good first shakedown trip...
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Idk. The heater had been off for hours
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Great hull design Brian! Spent today and yesterday going through the break in procedures for the Suzukis. Dad and I overnighted on the boat. After dinner we played cards and had a few beers. A real good time.
To everyone’s surprise nothing went wrong. I wonder if people were taking bets? Everything went great and all systems and gizmos worked flawlessly. The boat planes at about 15 mph I think. Sure don’t feel it break plane. I was impressed by how well it took high speed corners. We slept very comfy in the heated v-berth. It’s a big boat for a small lake with small boat ramp. The optimized PH was fantastic for two to move about and do stuff.
I am a much bigger fan of the Wallas in manual mode vs. thermostat mode. At one point it said the cabin temp was 140.1*F. So thermostat mode is dead to me. I started the heater from my phone 15 miles from the lake while driving. Not a good idea! I proved my CO detectors work. At the lake I opened the PH door and it looked like a Cheech and Chong show in there!
The CO detector went off again about 1 hour after turning the stove off. I am now certain that alcohol evaporating causes the alarm. We then made a point to put a silicone pad over the burners immediately after use and it never went off again. It is reassuring to k ow the detectors work. The fridge I made works like a champ and uses little power and keeps the goodies chilly.
The fly by wire 250 is awesome. Super smooth and quiet and easy to switch from station to station. Someone asked about the angle of the surface at the second station and it feels just like it should to me. I didn’t get any mpg numbers. I topped out at 42.5 mph or 36.9 knots or 68kmph. Trimming the motor helped, but adjusting the jack plate had no noticeable affect. I made 5000rpm. I think I need to check and see if that is WOT.
The 20 Hp kicker is good for about 5 mph. It’s annoying how bad it shakes and vibrates compared to the 250. I will never have another kicker without electric start and ptt.
The autopilot is totally amazing with the things it can do. I had no idea it did so much stuff. The new electronics are truly amazing!!
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Great to hear all the good news and good times! The hull speed, e.g. maximum speed without trying to lift the boat onto place, is about 6.6 knots, so your 20 hp kicker sounds like it's working as good as it will. As you approach hull speed, the amount of horsepower required goes up fast and it's not worth trying to maximize beyond what you're getting.
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Also, forgot about this. When I put on the bottom paint I came up the hull 2” past the plan dimensions. In my case as loaded I had about 1” to spare at the transom and about 1/2” of fancy paint in the water at the bow end.
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Didn’t get many photos
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Beautiful boat! You're going to love the 2nd steering station when you're out hammering tuna and salmon!
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It felt strange to drive from there. Dad said it felt strange sitting in the co-captains chair and not being able to see the person in control of the boat. With the big garmin I was able to see the screen and see the tack on the suzi instrument
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Your boat looks great Todd! Good to hear you got the CO thing figured out. Very cool you got it on the water and had the first of many adventures, congrats!
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Today we christened Fishin Impossible. A good time was had by all
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Congratulation to you Todd!!
So cool, it makes me happy to see what you have built and going to be enjoying for a long time.
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Day 2 on the big pond. 3 of us again caught all the law would allow on lings and rockfish. My boaty friends are beyond impressed by the boat overall. Ride, handling, quiet, speed for conditions and everything.
Notes for future builders. The freeing ports are a huge pain in the balls. My decks are 4 1-2” higher than design. I at rest am an inch low at the bow judging by my bottom paint that was shot in level with a laser. With 500 pounds of fishermen at the transom and me at 225 at the second station there is always some water in the boat. Forget backing into the swell. My deck floods through the freeing ports and eventually will flood the fish box, at least a hundred gallons. At which point puts about 1500 pounds including people behind the cabin bulkhead. Add 2-3” of water on the entire deck and you get the picture. The fish box lid fits tight enough that it airlocks and won’t drain into the bilge. This is worst case scenario of course, but it happened while trying to unstick 2 lines that were snagged on the bottom. During this time the bilge was completely dry. Once the fish box was open it began to drain into the bilge and both pumps did Their job. I intend to plug them with a foam plug with a cord so they can be removed quickly if needed.
The cabinet drawer design with the dowel in the back where you have to tip the rear of the drawer up to slide it out are painful to operate with any amount of usable weight in them. I had soft close slides in my hands. And they got heavy enough packing them to the car that I went back in and returned them. I think I will go that route now just to improve the usability of the galley. I put a single cabinet door to cover the drawers. It is one more step every time you want a spoon or whatever. I need to change the galley set up to slides with drawer fronts to match the cabinet doors at the dinette.
The Wallas is awesome in manual mode, but I do get a lot of condensation on the ceilings, walls and windows while moored or overnight. I think a dry-z-air is worth a shot. If you insulated your PH and cuddy roof. You done good. I’ve now spent as much time in the boat tied up as under way in winter weather. The condensation is a very minor annoyance, but I figured I’d have some just wasn’t sure how much.
Another note, some rub protectors are advised at the point the stem meets the bow roller. My pretty paint rubbed through clean through the primer.
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I had some of the same issues with water on the deck from the bow down only while moored. I do get some water that makes it way in from backing down and it does get into my fish box below the cockpit. I installed an auto bilge with manual override that does a good job keeping the water from overflowing into my bilge. Yes the bilge pumps would get any overflow out but I do not want bloody water getting in my bilge. I can only imaging how that would smell after a few good fishing trips. My deck is only 3" above what is specified and does a good job of draining most the time. I only sloped my deck 1 1/2" in 9 feet. I think the key to the issue is to slope the cockpit sole at least 2 1/2" from the cabin BH to the face of the scuppers. My scuppers are 1 1/2" x 6" and I do have plugs made for them on days needed.
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Do you guys have flappers on your scuppers? In an 'other side of the coin' perspective, sounds like water would be able to get out of the cockpit very fast in the event that you took a wave over the stern, so that's good...
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I think we have the same scuppers. My flaps fold in toward the house while backing into swell. The get stuck that way. I’m going to make some plugs for mine. They will only let water out if they are above the waterline. Which doesn’t work while backing up.
My deck slopes aft at 1-1/2” in almost 8 feet. It’s rainy like a bastard now and my decks are dry so I am appreciative of that. It’s supposed to blow up and we may not get out today
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Over the last several years, people have been trending towards equipping these boats more and more, and it seems that the aft belly tank is not as popular as a fish hold etc. I recommend in the manual, that scuppers remain closed until needed, e.g. open when underway for wash down and/or to get rid of water in the boat. And I'll emphasize that you want to keep the boat in balance ... these boats are half the weight of a commercial equivalent. If you put or move something heavy forward of the CG (which is aft of the house, FYI), then you need to counter with something heavier behind the CG ... if fuel tanks are forward and the belly tank gone or truncated, then put your batteries closer to the transom or use a longer motor bracket or jack place, or buy a heavier motor. And it's always a good idea to slope the cockpit deck pretty well to drain it aft. If you consider the weight of 4 people, their gear, and burning or adding fuel in various tanks, it's easily 1000# to 1200# of weight that moves around the boat when underway ... all boats are a fore/aft teeter totter and the lighter they are, the more susceptible they'll be to weight being in various places. As always ... as I've recommended elsewhere, get the boat reasonable done and then use sandbags or buckets of sand to emulate weights of things you want in the boat and find out what arrangement makes the boat trim well. And by the way, a hidden forward weight is from decks that are thicker than called for, or glassed heavier than called for, or if you use LVL stringers that are taller than called for. The extra LVL height adds more weight forward of the CG than aft. And when sleeping, the weight in the bow may be enough to make the boat trim bow-down while you're sleeping ... plug water routes from the aft bilge forward and put a small bilge pump under the cuddy deck or f'w'd end of the house deck to send all-night rains out over the side. If anyone has questions, let me know ... I've looked at and approved, or disapproved, many layouts in an effort to help builders to get the boat of their dreams. Much can be done after the boat's done too.
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Do you guys have flappers on your scuppers? In an 'other side of the coin' perspective, sounds like water would be able to get out of the cockpit very fast in the event that you took a wave over the stern, so that's good...
Yes I have one way rubber flapper on the scupper. They are pretty stiff but still let water in, they are so stiff they let water out but any small stuff on the deck tends to get stuck in the stiff flapper on the way out. I actually cut some off the bottom so it would not plug the scupper
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plug water routes from the aft bilge forward and put a small bilge pump under the cuddy deck or f'w'd end of the house deck to send all-night rains out over the side. If anyone has questions, let me know ... I've looked at and approved, or disapproved, many layouts in an effort to help builders to get the boat of their dreams. Much can be done after the boat's done too.
Yep I agree as Brian said. I have used my boat enough and have learned how to solve my water on the deck issues. I also installed a forward bilge pump up under the cuddy along with sealing off water free flowing from the stern to the bow in my bilge as Brian advises.
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Here’s a closer up shot of my scuppers. I think I need a pump in my fish box. If only I could figure out how to get some wiring to it. I also think I need a tiny vent in the fish box lid to act as a vacuum breaker. The bilge under the cockpit is 100% isolated from the rest of the bilge by plugs.
I think I will follow Chuck’s lead and trim the bottom off the scupper flaps and install some tight fitting foam plugs into the scupper tubes.
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With these boats, given normal trim variations with varying loads, motion, and water movement, it would be nice to have scuppers 10-12" above the deck to minimize water coming in (and it still will) ... but then you'd have thousands of pounds of water in the boat before it started to drain and no bilge pump could keep up. As always, I recommend keeping scuppers closed until needed (draining water or wash-down underway), and I do recommend allowing at least the cockpit region to drain into the bilge, and 2 bilge pumps (2 is one ... one is none)... and of course the fisherman's pump ... a bailing jug. Nothing's more efficient than a scared sailor and a bailing jug.
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... I do recommend allowing at least the cockpit region to drain into the bilge, and 2 bilge pumps (2 is one ... one is none)...
Am I reading this right? Can you elaborate a bit on the cockpit draining into the bilge Brian? I specifically designed my boat to have the cockpit have as few paths for water to go to the bilge as possible...
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... I do recommend allowing at least the cockpit region to drain into the bilge, and 2 bilge pumps (2 is one ... one is none)...
Am I reading this right? Can you elaborate a bit on the cockpit draining into the bilge Brian? I specifically designed my boat to have the cockpit have as few paths for water to go to the bilge as possible...
Yeah, sure ... it was an ambiguous statement, wasn't it? So yes, do everything you can to keep water out of the bilge and draining out of the scuppers (and I like some arch to the cockpit deck too). I was referring to, and should've been more clear, is that any areas under the deck ought to have a drain path to the aft center (between stringers) bilge area JUST IN CASE water gets down there ... In other words, there's a drain plug at the bottom of the aft house bulkhead that can remain plugged, but chambers between the stringers should have a way to drain to the bilge where water can be pumped out. Chambers with under-deck bulkheads that are outside of the stringers generally allow drainage to the stern without any plugs along the way, and one drain through the stringer at the transom ... into the bilge. But that's a design decision. Outboard of the stringers, it stays pretty darn dry and the aft plugs are really more about venting chambers when in storage, or draining water if you damaged the boat and hit a rock or something. The other side of the coin is that some like to have sealed chambers, no foam, outboard of the stringers. That's fine too. There's a million ways to do these things ... just think through the various water scenarios and address them ... sleeping in the cuddy and the bow trimming down (where can water end up?) ... and raining typhoon rain all night, or wash down of the cockpit, or a big crew in the stern and taking a wave over the transom (or side) etc etc. You don't want the boat to fill with water, even if bow-down trim exists for whatever reason, so slope decks, plug holes, and install pumps. When a large amount of water comes in, say a sneaker wave.... it could be thousands of pounds of water. What do you do? Send everyone forward, open your scuppers (they're big right) and get underway ASAP ... etc.
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While out and about on Tuesday I learned a bit about my Suzuki MFD. I discovered at 28 mph I am getting 2.8 mpg. At tuna speed I get 3.27 mpg. I didn’t trim or raise the motor to try to gain anything.
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While out and about on Tuesday I learned a bit about my Suzuki MFD. I discovered at 28 mph I am getting 2.8 mpg. At tuna speed I get 3.27 mpg. I didn’t trim or raise the motor to try to gain anything.
Seems about right. I'm curious about 21 to 22 mph, the 'design cruise speed'? Probably right at 3.0 mpg. Very good for a big 250...
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I’ll try to check next outing. I used 28 mpg only because I was using 10gph and the math was easy
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While out and about on Tuesday I learned a bit about my Suzuki MFD. I discovered at 28 mph I am getting 2.8 mpg. At tuna speed I get 3.27 mpg. I didn’t trim or raise the motor to try to gain anything.
Seems about right. I'm curious about 21 to 22 mph, the 'design cruise speed'? Probably right at 3.0 mpg. Very good for a big 250...
Brian that's my sweet spot. My best numbers from early on were 8.2 gph @ 21.1 mph 2.57 mpg. I've settled on props now (14x20) but haven't plated with it yet. Pretty happy with those numbers running twins and the hull size. Those are great numbers Todd! She turned oat awesome! Sure is nice when you finally hit the water and start enjoying all that labor of love!!! MERRY CHRISTMASS!!! (from Mexico)
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Thanks Chuck. You too. Feliz Navidad
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This is how I decided to solve the dreaded "Jack Plate Doesn't Work" problem.
I think it's time we all give up on the prospect of using a 4" offset jack plate. If someone on this forum really has made it work, I think we should sticky it. One can only crash the hydraulic steering cylinder into the transom so many times!
https://bobsmachine.com/product/fixed-setback-brackets-no-lift/
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This is how I decided to solve the dreaded "Jack Plate Doesn't Work" problem.
I think it's time we all give up on the prospect of using a 4" offset jack plate. If someone on this forum really has made it work, I think we should sticky it. One can only crash the hydraulic steering cylinder into the transom so many times!
https://bobsmachine.com/product/fixed-setback-brackets-no-lift/
Noted. There will be an update in the next release of the manual...
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This should have some positive effect on my bow down attitude at res, overnight, while loaded for a fishing trip. I'm very anxious to get back onto the water. I just need at least 2 days of ocean, back-to-back, to make it pay.
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I have also finished the fitting of my home made swim platform.
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I love to seeing people do their own fabrication. Outstanding job
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Thanks DJ. I try to do as much as I can. For this project I fit and tacked everything and took it out to get welded as my machine isn’t designed to run aluminum.
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Got all my goodies together and mounted to fix my jack plate interference issues. These are massive extrusions, rated to 550 Hp and had to have some length cut off of the top.
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My 1500$ whoopsie is finally in the rear view, minus a minor paint touch up.
Pic 1- engine trimmed down with jack plate all the way down.
Pic 2- engine trimmed all the way up to its limit, which has not been reduced using the limit switch, jack plate all the way down
Pic 3- engine resting on its foot, with hydraulics fully retracted and jack plate all the way down.
The top of the stand off bracket was trimmed down some. It looked dumb flush with the top of the transom and taller than the front edge of the jack plate.
Th only contact with the transom now is the hoses, which do not have any strain on them. The large corrugated rigging tube does get forced up a bit in the last pics. It will easily move that amount by hand without straining. I may fuss with the tilt limit switch and only allow enough up tilt to set the engine foot down. Will post those results later
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I am happy you are getting it worked out.
I cant help re-sizing to see it better:
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Swim step done!
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Nice! What's it look like with the ladder folded up? Got a way to secure it there, or is it pinned on and you take it off to be underway?
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I plan to leave the ladder on the boat only for diving or fishing alone. I could benefit from a joint in the ladder for better stowing it while under way.
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Nah ... If it were mine, I'd be good with just the bungie, but keep a spare in the spare parts locker ... the collision chamber up front!
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Stayed on the boat a couple nights at Charleston. I fished for 3 days and plugged her every day. I got tons of questions and compliments on the boat. Every place I’ve been with the boat someone says it’s the best looking boat on the water.
I’m proud of it for sure. Thanks Brian for offering such great plans at such a modest price.
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Stayed on the boat a couple nights at Charleston. I fished for 3 days and plugged her every day. I got tons of questions and compliments on the boat. Every place I’ve been with the boat someone says it’s the best looking boat on the water.
I’m proud of it for sure. Thanks Brian for offering such great plans at such a modest price.
GLAD you love your boat! Did you get any fish?
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LOL "Plugged the boat" means limits for all!!!
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Yes. What he said ;)
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:D Must be in a different neighborhood than me ;D
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Ready for albacore! Let’s go
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Those look good... Did you make that yourself? I just got a rocket launcher spread made for my ph roof, it's about 2 inches too tall but... Trying to find a way to make it work. The guys who made it didn't really listen to what I wanted so I didn't get what I was really looking for but I think I can make it work. The DIY route fixes that problem :)
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Yes I did make it. Any time I have something built I always include plan, elevation, and isometric views. It’s different for some one that has no formal training in drawing.
I sketched this up for myself to build tank racks for my scuba/lobster blowout in October.
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Very professional! Are you a mechanical engineer by trade?
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I’m a retired UA pipe fitter. We fix what engineers draw up that can’t work!
For Jason
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Thanks Todd!
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Sure. Be careful and have fun
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Another few trips out on big blue. I’ve yet to find an engine speed that I can’t get 3 mpg. Even at 30 mph cruise I can adjust the jack plate to get 3+ mpg. She will go quite a bit faster, but that is a comfortable cruise speed and she just hums along at 4000-42000 rpm depending on which side of the swell I’m on. I really love the boat. I wish I had done a few things differently, it there’s lots of time!
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That's awesome! And the first that I've heard for getting 3 mpg running a 42000 rpms! That's a real screamer!
So, out of curiosity, what would you do differently if you knew what you knew now back when you first built the boat?
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I have even beat 3 mpg at that engine speed on nice ocean. Barely, but still eat 3. I make a game out of watching my gallons per hour, and miles per hour. I always try to get a 3:1 ratio.
No removable hinges on the fish box. It can be a pain to put back together on the water.
Instead of foot rests aft side of cuddy bulkhead. I should have built a storage compartment to rest feet on. I never stand at the helm, neither does the copilot.
Soft close drawer slides. I did the tilt the drawer up at the back version. The drawers just get too hard to open if they are shallow And have a lot of weight in them.
At times I wish the anchor winch was in a well, but that doesn’t bother me as much as the above stuff.
I regret installing the deck scuppers. I now keep them plugged while at play. In my opinion all they are is a PITA. I think in heavy rains ,while moored, they might help some. I’m thinking of permanently plugging them and leaving the hardware for looks.
Now having said that. I absolutely could not live without the anchor winch, second station, wipers as equipped, and autopilot. I rarely use the steering wheel while seated at the helm
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<snip>
Soft close drawer slides. I did the tilt the drawer up at the back version. The drawers just get too hard to open if they are shallow And have a lot of weight in them.
At times I wish the anchor winch was in a well, but that doesn’t bother me as much as the above stuff.
I regret installing the deck scuppers. I now keep them plugged while at play. In my opinion all they are is a PITA. I think in heavy rains ,while moored, they might help some. I’m thinking of permanently plugging them and leaving the hardware for looks.
<snip>
Interesting note on the drawer slides on shallow drawers - thanks.
Why the anchor winch in a well? Safe place for loose rode or chain or other items?
Scuppers - yes, they may not be beautiful, but combined with a sloped cockpit deck and plugged drains through below-deck bulkheads, it means you can leave your boat unattended at a dock and it'll be self-bailing without having to worry about dead batteries and/or failed bilge pumps. I like using a round scupper that's designed to fit a standard Home Depot type plastic pipe plug (but replace the bolt hardware with stainless) and leave the scuppers plugged all the time except a) when underway with water on the deck that you want to drain outward quickly (quicker than a bilge pump), and b) when the boat's left unattended at a dock as mentioned. I believe in having enough slope (downward aft) in the cockpit deck to drain, even if just slightly, even when a couple is sleeping in the cuddy if possible. I also install under-deck 15/16" drain holes at the bottom of each bulkhead, and keep them plugged all the time unless the boat's out of the water ... unplug all prior to driving the boat home so any bilge water will drain out the stern and to let the bilge be ventilated when the boat's not in use. But when on the water, I prefer to keep the bulkheads plugged to prevent water draining towards the bow (and it's a good idea to have a small bilge pump 'for emergencies' in the cuddy or just aft of the aft cuddy bulkhead below the deck - needs to be accessible too).
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Re: anchor winch. I have a tiny bit of blind spot looking out over the bow. When seated it is 100% in the shadow of the space between the windshields. It is not at all as annoying as the other things i mentioned. I’m not sure I would trade less under bow storage, dirt catcher, and more drains to watch over for the bit of sight.
Re: scuppers. I used the same ones as Chuck I think. Crome bezel with black flapper. It is about a 2 x 6 inch opening. Let’s a lot of water out, but let’s a lot of water in when loaded with fish and ice and fat guys. Even with the raised and sloped decks.
I still love the boat!
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Yeah ... flapper-only type scuppers, round or rectangular, aren't as good as scuppers that can be closed tight. I'll stick with the round ones that the Home Depot pipe plugs fit ... :)
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Santa Rosa Island in background
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That looks cool! On anchor and barbeque on the back deck, whats for dinner?
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Your boat looks killer Todd. That trip looks like it was awesome and boat looks like it was rigged great to spend some time out there.
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That looks cool! On anchor and barbeque on the back deck, whats for dinner?
It worked great for steaks, dogs, sausages, grilled onions, canned biscuits and lots of other stuff. I highly recommend using a grill mat if you?ve never tried one.
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That looks cool! On anchor and barbeque on the back deck, whats for dinner?
It worked great for steaks, dogs, sausages, grilled onions, canned biscuits and lots of other stuff. I highly recommend using a grill mat if you?ve never tried one.
It was definitely one for the books. I got one limit of lobsters where the smallest was 6 pounds!! It?s a boater home