Glacier Boats of Alaska - Builder's Forums
Great Alaskan and Boat Building => Projects - Glacier Boats of Alaska boat projects => Topic started by: Ed Snyder on April 26, 2010, 10:21:28 PM
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We've started building Prince Rupert here in Perth Australia, 2 ex-pat Kiwis, Both of us work the mines here usually constructing camps and civil works - Concrete form-work.
We have the Bottom, chine and stringers all laminated - building the shelves today, in 27 deg (cel) weather - nice.
We have built to 28 Ft and in case andded another 24 inches if she will look ok and Brians happy with it, otherwise out comes the chainsaw!
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Using peel ply is a clean non itchy way to ready the glassing process for the next layer, roll it over the glass past the glassed part - remove after she's all set, this removes the blush off the epoxy too. Great smooth finish ready for light filling, sanding and undercoat.
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I haven't tried peel ply yet, but want to. I've heard that you can use nylon taffeta from the fabric store instead and it's a lot cheaper ...but obviously I haven't tried that yet either. Maybe after the new shop is built...
Brian
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Update:
Ed's PhotoBucket Slide Show & Gallery (http://s832.photobucket.com/albums/zz247/Da-Edster/?action=view¤t=7d370c47.pbw)
(http://www.glacierboats.com/images/ed/ga_bottom.jpg)
He's going fast!
Brian
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I haven't tried peel ply yet, but want to. I've heard that you can use nylon taffeta from the fabric store instead and it's a lot cheaper ...but obviously I haven't tried that yet either. Maybe after the new shop is built...
Brian
Make sure it's been treated, not sure what with, but it may end up being part of the layup process other wise!
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Well, progress has been great to date, now's the time to get on with a few other priorities for a month or two.
We glued in the stem as designed - with Aussie hardwood, a bit heavy but woodn't bust if we hit anything!
The reason I liked this design is for 2 reasons, 1st is the trawler design, 2nd the build process, no framing, chine, keel or stringers usually in a boat build, simple quick and the best part clean looking interior, like the interior of a composite foam sandwich build, I think lighter build too, every one needs to remember the more weight the more fuel to move it.
Back to the stem, I like nautical looking boats. Like a curved stem.
So, this area to me needed a more nautical look. After measuring the sheer shelf from the floor, we removed the stem, that took a bit of effort, hardwood + epoxy = tough stem. I wanted a round stem, so laminated up a round one!
Using 1/4" ply cut it into wedges 3/4" to 1/8" @ 36" long to be cut to the correct length later when fitting it.
Built an MDF mould with the sheer shelf and chine angles taken off the boat as built, got a 4 gal tin to get the curve for the sheer and a 1.5" tin for the chine end. Screwed the MDF shaped ends 36" apart to an MDF base with 3 battens nailed in between, one at the centre line of the stem and the other 2 either side at about the point where the curve finishes on the ends, this is to keep the edges of the strips straight.
Covered the mould with wax paper taped on ready to place the stem on for glassing.
I used 1/4" ply as glassing 2 x 20 oz biax on both sides wood give about 3/8" thickness - same as the side panels.
The strips of ply were laid on the table and masking taped together on one face, copious tape here, as it's the strength to hold it all in shape for glassing later. When all done, this was lifted and placed on the mould, small brads kept the taped strips centred on the mould.
Lots of resin applied for the 10 minute period for soaking up in the opened up ply edges. Laid up the biax, peel ply (treated) a word of caution using peel ply, the glass needs to have plenty of resin, like when the glass gets the 2nd coat of resin, use it now, the peel ply will other wise lift the resin up to it and leave the glass with little voids in the weave under the peel ply, you will notice this when you need to sand off some areas...
Next day with excitement (always looks great this system) lifted the stem off the mould and laid up the inside.
Fitting to the hull was a trim and fit system, taking care not to trim off too much as the sides of the stem needed to fair into the ply side panels, I didn't want to have to fair up any thing. glued her up when I was happy.
When I laid up the side panels, put 1-3/4" strips of wax paper covered ply backers behind the stem to screw the side panel to when glueing up, ending up with a fair hull side. (might add here that one side I rushed thus needed to apply a little glue as fairing compound - I'm not perfect!)
Now I'll have a fair interior forward cabin to look at, nice!
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I haven't tried peel ply yet, but want to. I've heard that you can use nylon taffeta from the fabric store instead and it's a lot cheaper ...but obviously I haven't tried that yet either. Maybe after the new shop is built...
Brian
Make sure it's been treated, not sure what with, but it may end up being part of the layup process other wise!
The other issue I had with the stuff, if it has wrinkles in it, these will 'print' through, needing a sanding if one wanted a dead flat surface....
selling for $4 meter here in Oz, bought a 50M roll for $150.
Great for avoiding getting rid of epoxy blush and sanding to key the next layup (when needed)
This stuff leaves a beautiful finish, use it every where, you don't have to have it in one piece either, cut smaller sheets and dry roll it over your layup.
I use it every where even on small tight areas just to have a smooth finish and no sanding.
It can also be used on glue fillets - beats sanding, used a PVC pipe to smooth it out and short hair 1" roller to smooth out the edges of the fillets.
Caution - (again) try not to put creases in the peel ply prior to using it, these 'print' through - having to sand these spots if you are wanting a near undercoat ready finish for those smaller hard to sand areas
I found out real quick it's not a one man job with using the stuff and laying up glass all at once.
Better to cut the peel ply into smaller sizes for what you will be glassing and put it on a roll, broom handle etc, (e.g. if glassing 9 yard long 1 yard wide, cut peel ply into 1 yd X 8" wider than the glass area - squares, the joins in the ply are not a problem later) then use a short hair roller to roll out smooth, having a helper to hold up the peel ply whilst laying it on will help greatly.
Remember to have plenty of resin on the glass, trial an error will have you getting it about right, e.g. usually one gives the cured glassing another roll on of resin to fill the weave, do it now, as the peel ply will take up resin off the surface of your layup and give voids in between the glass weave, these are easy to find if you are not sure how it all turned out later, just orbital sand a small area of the surface resin you will see the voids in the weave if they are there. (I haven't seen the peel ply take resin out of the glass fibre itself)
Google it all, there are better operators than me 'out there'
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Here's a link to a slide show of the curved stem, or really any curved surface you want, interior cabinets, corners of the coach house etc
(http://s832.photobucket.com/albums/zz247/Da-Edster/th_54stem.jpg) (http://s832.photobucket.com/albums/zz247/Da-Edster/?action=view¤t=361971ad.pbw)
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Looks like there is a race on. Fantastic job from all. Looking forward to seeing these float.
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Here's a link to a slide show I update often.
http://s832.photobucket.com/albums/zz247/Da-Edster/?action=view¤t=7d370c47.pbw
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Ed & I have been P.M.ing about his boat for the past few days. I thort someone else may have similar questions or thorts so have made it a posting..
Mate.. you have cheated... you know what you are doing, a real boat fit out builder bloke not just an amature wood butcher like me!!.
You mentioned 300 HP common rail non turbo ;D .... surely you are jesting, you are looking at a hellishly big truck engine for that. With no real knowledge I wonder if something diesel, 2-3 litre, up to 120 hp will produce sparkling results unless you are going for an absolute speed demon... But then again maybe not due to the extra few heavy metres in yours over the Tolman Jumbo. My 5.8 mtr Ramco will hit 45knots with 90hp but speed in an active sea is uncomfortable, the Pelin will hit 9 knots but comfort is painfully slow... I think 20 knots is a pretty good target for me based on my experience in all 3 harbours. (Auckland N.Z. has the Waitemata, Kaipara and Manukau Harbours.... we are spoiled for choice, look them up on Google earth.) I could be fishing anywhere comfortably in an hour or so.
Doesnt the formular for speed increase in proprtion to length at the waterline??
It seems to me from just cursory glances that the only difference between the Tolman Jumbo and Prince William is a few feet. Are there any other differences? aside from the Prince just plain looking better!
One thing I notice about the old Pelin (26 foot launch) is the lack of fish slaughtering are... the rear deck has only about 4 foot of side for fishing over.. once there are a few blokes on board that will not be enough. My 5.8 mtr Ramco has a larger fishatorium so its something that will be missed, however the ability to brew up a cuppa and reheat a feed in the Pelin is very attractive. I also enjoy the odd moi (maori word = sleep) whilst being busy fishing. I can understand your desire to add a few extra Metres.
Are you going to copy the plans for the Glacier cabin or will you be customising it a bit?
Muzza.
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ah there you are!
OK lol, 1st off, I like the whole Prince shape, gonna keep it yep, and ok, give me an engine that'll be within 476 kg designed weight and can get me 20 knots on 2800 Kg of fully laden boat......
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Hi there Ed.... time for me to look real smart, or at least a smartass. ;) using professor google I found this boat speed calculator... Thanks Al Gore for inventin the innernet!
http://www.go-fast.com/boat_speed_predictions.htm
Did a bit of playing... 2,800 modern kgs = 6170 antique pounds.
weight = 6170
HP = 300
Hull constant = heavy v bottom = 225
Speed = wait fir it..... TaDah.... 50 knots.
Now I know nothing apart from how to ask professor google, maybe Bryan would like to give professional opinion... maybe this calculator is only for Northern Hemisphere out boards I dunno.
But when I type in 60 hp it gets 22 knots. Even more if you call the hull a fast V bottom (which it probly is).
Yes I love the cabin shape as well... It just looks right.
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Nissan 4.2 diesel specs..
Professor Google again...
1989 Model
TD42
4.2 litre, water-cooled diesel engine.
4 cycle, 6 cylinder OHV.
Crossflow cylinder head, high camshaft.
Bore x Stroke: 96 x 96mm.
Displacement: 4169 cc.
Compression Ratio: 22.7.1.
Max. Power: 85kW @ 4000r/min (DIN). 85 KW = 114 HP.
Max. Torque: 264Nm @ 2000r/min (DIN).
1999 model
Power= td42 [nomally aspirated] 91 kw@4000 = 122 HP.
= td42t [turbocharged] 114 kw@3600 = 152HP
Maybe old Harry (old owner) is a bit confused or maybe he's had it worked a bit. Engine was supplied by Moon Engines in Avondale N.Z. ... either way it goes pretty darned good.
Not too sure of the weight but it must be findable on the innanet.
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Just an FYI, Guys:
The main differences between the Great Alaskan and the Tolman Jumbo are as follows:
1. Deadrise: The Jumbo has 12 degrees at the transom and 18 degrees amidships. The Great Alaskan has 13 degrees at the transom and 14-1/4 degrees at amidships. In other words, the GA has a hull that is much closer to a monohedron ('prismatic') and as such should run more efficiently for it's size. I don't expect the GA to get as good mpg as the Jumbo simply because boat displacement is the number 1 cause of getting bad mileage or vice versa. The GA weighs proportionately more for the change in length and is slightly heavier in her scantlings. The close-to-monohedron hull is, on the other hand, more efficient ...and the 1 degree more deadrise goes the other way ...YOU figure the difference! I made these changes to try to improve hull efficiency in spite of the boat being longer and a little heavier. I had more length to work with than Renn did.
2. Side flare: The GA has a couple of degrees less flare amidships (in order to keep it trailerable in the US without special permit). Both are similar in their rollover (righting arm versus degrees heel) characteristics, and both are similar in 'stiffness' (resistance to roll)
3. The GA has a hull that narrows a couple of inches from admidships to the transom ... a slight change that hopefully helps prevent broaching in spite of the boat's longer length (versus swell length for a given period).
4. The GA has a slightly finer entry forward and should slice through the chop more nicely.
5. The GA is 8'5" wide at its widest while the Jumbo is about 8' wide, and the GA is about 6" deeper as well (more room inside the boat)
I think that's about it...
Have fun,
Brian
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But Bryan y'all forgot the most important part.... it just looks shippier, may be because of the aditional height and extra feet.
Anyway mate whats the story on the fancy formular for HP/Speed. Is it applicable to the GA, am I way off track, is it anuther innernet (praise be to Al Gore) spoof, does that only apply to the Northern Hemisphere with its floating on top of the world lighter water or what. Ed seems to be rethinking fitting a huge 300hp firebreathing supertanker engine as a result and I dont want to be the one responsible for putting him crook. Roughly (educated guess) what HP do you reccomend to get his 20Knots.... of course there are variables like gearbox and prop bite but could it be done with say ..... 100hp?
Thanks
Muzza.
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But Bryan y'all forgot the most important part.... it just looks shippier, may be because of the aditional height and extra feet.
Anyway mate whats the story on the fancy formular for HP/Speed. Is it applicable to the GA, am I way off track, is it anuther innernet (praise be to Al Gore) spoof, does that only apply to the Northern Hemisphere with its floating on top of the world lighter water or what. Ed seems to be rethinking fitting a huge 300hp firebreathing supertanker engine as a result and I dont want to be the one responsible for putting him crook. Roughly (educated guess) what HP do you reccomend to get his 20Knots.... of course there are variables like gearbox and prop bite but could it be done with say ..... 100hp?
Thanks
Muzza.
Shippier, eh? OK ...I like that. It definitely looks "shippier" when you're standing under the bow and looking up at it...
As far as speed predictions go, there are many methods available and several calculators online. Most will not be accurate, but all will be within a reasonable doubt of reality. That said, I would suggest taking it a step further if you want more accurate speed predictions. The attached spreadsheet contains Savitsky's methods along with later refinements (Blount, Lee, etc) and is pretty good ...but keep in mind that it does not take into consideration things like the parasitic drag from outboard skegs, strakes on the bottom of the boat, imperfections in the surface, humps and hollows, propeller efficiencies or the lack thereof (slip) etcetera and it DOES assume that the boat has a traditional drive shaft and rudder. These models tend to be more accurate on heavier, beamier, boats than on lighter and relatively narrower boats such as the Great Alaskan.
What I did for speed prediction (and I'll need to dig up my hydrodynamics results for you after I get home from work), was to use the Savitsky+ analysis in RhinoMarine, an add-on for my Rhino 3D CAD program that I used for modeling the Great Alaskan. Again, all the little things that take away from speed (parasitic drag and imperfections) are not considered, so even those results need to be modified. I originally modeled a 22' Tolman Jumbo and came up with a scaling factor to make the results match up with reality, then I modeled a 26' Great Alaskan (modest load) and multiplied the results by the same scaling factor. To take a guess at how Ed's boat will perform, I would predict the same 26' Great Alaskan with the attached spreadsheet, then modify the numbers to model Ed's boat, and then derive a scaling factor between the two. Once there, you can use that scaling factor to adjust the speed and power predictions from the 26' boat to Ed's football-field-length (haha) boat and you'd be in the right ballpark.
If you want to keep it simple, figure 40# per horsepower as the minimum and 25# per horsepower maximum and go pick your motor and prop. This would result in about a 150 hp minimum sized outboard and a 250 hp maximum if you assume 6150# (that's the number you used, right). I think in reality that you will be surprised at how this boat moves easily and I'd probably limit Ed's boat's horsepower to something more like 200 or 225 hp. With this horsepower, I would expect the boat to move along in the mid-thirty knot range or possibly faster. Anything above 40 knots or so starts to become an inaccurate prediction in my book because minor hull variations (humps, hollows, etc) start coming into play more as the boat goes faster.
Brian
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Bryan... Shoot me... 35 knots, thats hellish fast for a 26' boat. well at least it is around this part of the world. Maybe the seas are a bit different on top of the world but down here in the bottom half most hulls would get a real pounding doing that speed for long and if the hull didnt suffer the poor old captains body sure would. Heck we would be over the fishing spots before the proverbial cup of tea has been made and consumed. Of course y'all dont have to drive it like ya stole it all the time.
Seeing as our fuel is 2 to 3 times dearer down here we tend to travel a bit slower and save quite a few bucks.
Well there ya go Ed, choose the desired speed, tell Brian and he will give more accurate guidelines for engine HP.
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Let's see ...we all live in the same world and the world's oil is sold on the open international market, and shipping oil (or fuels) to Alaska has got to be just as expensive as anywhere else. Hmmm... We all pay a similar price for oil, so why the 2 or 3 times higher prices down under? Hmmm... Lemme guess, it's your loving government taking a chip out of your wallet in taxes, no?
Brian
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Brian.... How dare you suggest such things !!! Our government assures us that they know whats best for us and are only acting in our best interests.... and its all the fault of global warming caused by cows farting and smokey deezil 4x4s.
Thats why about 1/3rd of of all N.Z. bred folks head overseas to Ozzy to make a better life for themselves... Ed included and me most probably early next year once I get qualified.
Soon the only ones left here will be the politicians and the unemployed, oh and a couple of million immigrants from hot parts of the world all ripping each other off.
Seriously tho would 100HP produce around 20 Knots?
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I forgot to go looking for the hydrodynamics info last night, but I doubt 100 hp will move you at 20 knots. I forget what the minimum horsepower for planing was, but it's higher than that... I'll check into it tonight...
Brian
PS: Remember, if you ever hear a knock on the door and there's a guy there that says "Hi, we're from the government and we're here to help" ...just walk him down to the other side of the road and then shoot him ...don't want that muck in YOUR yard!
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hahahahahahaha, couppla clowns here for real....
See Muzza, 300 Hp is good! aye Brian, push a rugby field along quite nicely!
Muzza you git da drift on that * Planing.xlsm file at all? Me either.....
Brian you kinda know what your taking about, so, if I want to drift along at max 20 Knots, with an oiler, what HP, prop and/if what gearbox ratio say with a Vee drive? Feel free to use that * Planing.xlsm file Brian :-)
Actually if it wasnt 12 a.m.. might have a play with it myself
Ed
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8) :P :-X
Oh yea, flipped the hull last sunday, 6 of us did in - rolled her ova on tyres, real light too....
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Yeah ...that spreadsheet's not too bad. It, like all such models, leaves out things like parasitic drag, variation due to choppy seas or wind or swells etc... but it gets you in the right ball park. I'll see if I can get time to play with if in the next couple of weeks.
Lightweight? That's one of the beauties in this build method. Other methods have you turning over a MUCH heavier assembly when it's time to turn the hull over. With this method (Renn Tolman's method), the hull is as light as it can possibly be when it's turned over and that allows people to build a much larger boat without special equipment (cranes, slings, giant gimbals and tripods etc).
Brian
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C'mon Ed. y'all know the innernet (praise be to Al Gore) rules.... if theres no foters it never happened! ;)
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Some pix of the turn over
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more pix
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She's lookin' sweet, Ed! You might find your waterline is a bit canted towards 'stern low' ...the boat will float more horizontal than that, but then again, you might be aiming more for the on-plane attitude? She planes 4 degrees bow-high at 21 knots... just as a point of reference. The planing angle drops to 2.8 degrees at 40 knots, and the boat should float with about 1-1/2" bow-high trim at rest (assuming exactly the same layout that I designed into it...). Somewhere I read that a waterline with a slightly belly to it (lower in the middle) is best looking overall since it accommodates a variety of trim angles. Just ideas...
Brian
PS: More pix coming? Your 'turned over' hull still looks upside down ...well, right side up to us but that's because you're on the wrong side of the planet hahaaaa
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Ed.... Hull looks great, waterline may be a bit optimistic in view of the 3000HP supertanker engine, Vdrive reduction unit and Kort Nozzle going in it!
Hate to have to tell you this.... but according to the foters they didnt turn it over yet. I reckon y'all just got on the waipiro with a bit of free BBQ thrown in and after a few hours it looked like it was turned over from your head down point of view!!!!!
That your Moko on the ground? looks like he is trying to copy the unable to walk properly growdups.
Next time y'all are going to turn it over dont start drinking till its well done!!! ;D
Muzza.
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Oh heck, file too bg too small, lol, eyes glazing ova 11 pm, here goes more
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more
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She's lookin' sweet, Ed! You might find your waterline is a bit canted towards 'stern low' ...the boat will float more horizontal than that, but then again, you might be aiming more for the on-plane attitude? She planes 4 degrees bow-high at 21 knots... just as a point of reference. The planing angle drops to 2.8 degrees at 40 knots, and the boat should float with about 1-1/2" bow-high trim at rest (assuming exactly the same layout that I designed into it...). Somewhere I read that a waterline with a slightly belly to it (lower in the middle) is best looking overall since it accommodates a variety of trim angles. Just ideas...
Brian
PS: More pix coming? Your 'turned over' hull still looks upside down ...well, right side up to us but that's because you're on the wrong side of the planet hahaaaa
Yea real funny! lol, Well the LWL was marked wth my rotating Hilti Lazer, the hul was set up with the bearers level for'n aft & side, b4 she was marked. I hadda nuther look at the pic and she does look that way, it's an illusion Brian, getta nuther set of glasses lol, and next time put ur computer da right way up!
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Sweet! Looks BIG now, doesn't it?
Brian
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She's lookin' sweet, Ed! You might find your waterline is a bit canted towards 'stern low' ...the boat will float more horizontal than that, but then again, you might be aiming more for the on-plane attitude? She planes 4 degrees bow-high at 21 knots... just as a point of reference. The planing angle drops to 2.8 degrees at 40 knots, and the boat should float with about 1-1/2" bow-high trim at rest (assuming exactly the same layout that I designed into it...). Somewhere I read that a waterline with a slightly belly to it (lower in the middle) is best looking overall since it accommodates a variety of trim angles. Just ideas...
Brian
PS: More pix coming? Your 'turned over' hull still looks upside down ...well, right side up to us but that's because you're on the wrong side of the planet hahaaaa
Yea real funny! lol, Well the LWL was marked wth my rotating Hilti Lazer, the hul was set up with the bearers level for'n aft & side, b4 she was marked. I hadda nuther look at the pic and she does look that way, it's an illusion Brian, getta nuther set of glasses lol, and next time put ur computer da right way up!
Definitely an illusion ...in the latest pic, the waterline looks dead level. So weird how cameras can do that ...and I had 2 pairs of glasses on for extra good viewing too...
bd
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;D oops ;)
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Inside shot
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here ya go
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She's lookin' sweet, Ed! You might find your waterline is a bit canted towards 'stern low' ...the boat will float more horizontal than that, but then again, you might be aiming more for the on-plane attitude? She planes 4 degrees bow-high at 21 knots... just as a point of reference. The planing angle drops to 2.8 degrees at 40 knots, and the boat should float with about 1-1/2" bow-high trim at rest (assuming exactly the same layout that I designed into it...). Somewhere I read that a waterline with a slightly belly to it (lower in the middle) is best looking overall since it accommodates a variety of trim angles. Just ideas...
Brian
yea I did paint on the antifoul higher than I guess she'll sit, see, there's boot topping to go on yet and the stuff needs to be applied when the epoxy 2 pak undercoat is finger print hard, that's kinda in about as quick as it takes to wash out the pot to get ready for the next coat.... 5 min here. the blue topping will go on the black, negating having to u/coat again, maybe a little higher - Mmmmmmm - been thunking too much on the weight of the diesel donk....
PS: More pix coming? Your 'turned over' hull still looks upside down ...well, right side up to us but that's because you're on the wrong side of the planet hahaaaa
Yea real funny! lol, Well the LWL was marked wth my rotating Hilti Lazer, the hul was set up with the bearers level for'n aft & side, b4 she was marked. I hadda nuther look at the pic and she does look that way, it's an illusion Brian, getta nuther set of glasses lol, and next time put ur computer da right way up!
Definitely an illusion ...in the latest pic, the waterline looks dead level. So weird how cameras can do that ...and I had 2 pairs of glasses on for extra good viewing too...
bd
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Geez Ed that looks a beaut waka you got there.... just got to fill in the blunt end and take er for a paddle up the Swan river.
That curved stem post just looks awesome, well worth all the fu.. mucking... around to get it too look rite.
Guess the "fairys" musta got r turned over whilst y'all was busy skulling waipiro and not looking coz theres none of it actully happening!
Maybe y'all should offer ya services to the blokes on Camper... Vote Ed for master of resin.. Ol Chris Nicholson could do with your help keeping Camper in 1 piece for the Volvo race.
Git R Dun
Muzza.
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Not quite sure what y'all said ...but hey, they get more illiterate the further NORTH you go.... and there's not much more north above where we're at! Either way, the stem is awesome and so is that curved transom...
I see the markings for a stern drive (did I forget what propulsion you are using?) ...but what's with the lowered transom on either side? Stern seats for watching the smoooooth wake that you'll have or what?
bd
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erm, .... well, the 'seats' are actually swin platform, not sure why, plurry great white took another bloke the other day here, bloody greenies keep sayin "well ur in their territory!" bugger off, shoot da bastards! game on!
The high bit of the transom was for the 25" outboard to hang around on, that's not happening now.... a bit sad to cut her off, thunk may use it for something I haven't invented yet, may call up Al Gore......
As for the curvie stem and tranny, just gotta keep da girl looking nautical is my thunking. And here Brian you have done the boat justice for sure.
Awe chit Muzza, I just wanna start finishing the plurry thing, gotta now replace the hydrolic lifters in da ute now, chit.... theres sat gone, leaves sunnyday, buzz off the topsides and set out the decks? or, start glassing the floors, ship, choices fir sure....
Oh yea, lol, that curve drawn on the tranny down low? was gonna be a tunnel to lift up the prop, toooo much guessing here even afta lottsa research on da goolies, px posted below to see wot eye mean.
CDKtunnel1.JPG is wot a hydromised bloke up ur way Brian drew for a guy on http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/inboards/effect-close-clearance-tunnels-gear-ratio-wheel-selection-40462.html#post500176
Proboat mag says this in "Tunnel Hull explained - Proboat P1.jpg" & "Tunnel Hull explained - Proboat P2.jpg" files.
Then another bloke sent my the last 4 pix of a work boat the does 20+ knows with this setup (may need to attach these pix in next lotta words
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workboat tunnel
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& another
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unther
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last
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Some more pix a friend took
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I completely forgot that you were going with a tunnel ...it sure helps the draft, doesn't it?
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Bryan......
Native Maori language..
Waka = canoe
Waipiro; Wai = water Piro= rotten/smelly.... booze, satans syrup, idiot soup, singing syrup, intelligence enhancer.... call it what you like.
'Moko; When referred to people is short 4 mokopuna= grandchild. otherwise its a chin/lower facial tattoo
Plurry; no Bs or Ds in the Maori alfabet closest to B is P and Rs are pronounced kinda hard almost like scottish, sounds like a soft D hence bloddy becomes plurry.
The Swan; A bit of a creek/river that runs thru Perth..check it out on Google earth
Camper; Emirates Team N.Z. entry into the Volve ocean race..... had a bit of an oops when some internal structures delaminated and they had to do repairs mid ocean and again in Chile... some how its skippered by a plurry Ozzie!!!! I spose thats OK coz most of the other countries crews are run by Kiwis.
http://www.emiratesteamnz.com/#!ocean
Eds Mates: Blokes that turn up , drink his beer, eat his kai(food) then help him turn the boat ova. Then drink more coz it was 5 thirsty minutes work.
Ka Pai; Very good, Ok.
Dont let Ed look at the pics of RICE nozzles on this site... he will want one hanging under the poor boat.
http://www.propellerpages.com/?c=nozzles&f=Speed_Nozzle_Tests
Gawd ormighty..... they even used Eds beloved 365 Hp engines and have an Ozzie agent.
Sorry Brian, your once lovely hull design will never be the same.
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hahahahahaha, nice one Muzza! frozen swedes need thoring out, that'll do it! (swede maori for noggin)
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Thanks! It's almost like you need an english-aussy dictionary or something.. hahaha
The only aussy term that I heard in the past was when I dated a gal from down there (long ago) and that was "sheila" ...I don't know if it's derogatory or not, e.g. same as "bimbo" or does it just mean "a gal"?
Brian
PS: Those rice nozzles are cool but did you catch the prop sizes they were using them on? 66" diameter (and similar) giant trawler props? Not sure if they'd work as well on smaller props, but they sure had good numbers to report. They're more efficient for the same reasons turbofans are more efficient than turboprops on airplanes ...fluid moving outward is forced rearward and gives propulsion rather than just wasted effort...
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Thanks! It's almost like you need an english-aussy dictionary or something.. hahaha
The only aussy term that I heard in the past was when I dated a gal from down there (long ago) and that was "sheila" ...I don't know if it's derogatory or not, e.g. same as "bimbo" or does it just mean "a gal"?
Brian
PS: Those rice nozzles are cool but did you catch the prop sizes they were using them on? 66" diameter (and similar) giant trawler props? Not sure if they'd work as well on smaller props, but they sure had good numbers to report. They're more efficient for the same reasons turbofans are more efficient than turboprops on airplanes ...fluid moving outward is forced rearward and gives propulsion rather than just wasted effort...
Ha! Sheila is all good here, used in NZ too, not the same as bimbo though. "She's my Sheila"
Those rice nossles look great! similar to Renato Levi's plagiarized design way back.... he's Italian, meet him once in NZ when I was apprentice boat builder he was sponsored there. Got him to sign his book lol.....
Hadda look at a launched red Alaskan Brian, was that the guy in Oregon? was it built to 26ft?
You can watch me build at times if you have skype, I set up the cam in the shed, 'the_edster' is me.
shes on now. 2pm Oz time now
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I completely forgot that you were going with a tunnel ...it sure helps the draft, doesn't it?
"Were" is the operative word there lol.....
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OK ...My ol' brain is fuzzy ...you said something about a 300 hp outboard now, right? Seems like a lot, but you have a 30' boat too. We'll see. I'm a "shoot for the best gas mileage" kind of guy, which usually means "enough horsepower, but not much more". For safety (and fun) however, extra horsepower isn't bad.
I believe that red boat that's in the slide show for Adrian's boat in Oregon is a stretched Tolman Jumbo, not a Great Alaskan. I don't know who's it is, but no Great Alaskans have launched that I know of ...unless someone built one on the stealth and never said a word about it. I think Adrian saw that boat on the Columbia River, Oregon.
Brian
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OK ...My ol' brain is fuzzy ...you said something about a 300 hp outboard now, right? Seems like a lot, but you have a 30' boat too. We'll see. I'm a "shoot for the best gas mileage" kind of guy, which usually means "enough horsepower, but not much more". For safety (and fun) however, extra horsepower isn't bad.
I believe that red boat that's in the slide show for Adrian's boat in Oregon is a stretched Tolman Jumbo, not a Great Alaskan. I don't know who's it is, but no Great Alaskans have launched that I know of ...unless someone built one on the stealth and never said a word about it. I think Adrian saw that boat on the Columbia River, Oregon.
Brian
Ah ha, got it, interesting how she leans to Stbd with the guy fishing that side, thought that may happen with your design as most production fizz boats do too, being that they have a trailer-able beam.
Been orbital sanding the ship outta the inside as she was epoxy coated long ago and one of my lamination's (at the forward end of the Stbd bearer) when sanding it doesn't feather out, the lamination chips away when getting thin - feathering out.... kapice? A concern. This bit of lamination was done to strengthen the ends of the bearers b4 turning down side up..... didn't want any dramas, and it's a hell of a job glassing down side up ;D
Ed
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The GA's transverse metacentric height (GMt) is a bit taller than your average deep-V glass boat and the boat will be stiffer as a result, e.g. it will a) roll with the waves a tad more, but b) will not heel over as much when people move to the rail. The GMt was selected according to what semi-dory hulls typically have and is one of the factors that helps this boat bob up and over swells and waves rather than allowing the water to ride up the side (riskier). It makes the boat safer when at rest or adrift.
As far as that flaking epoxy goes, if it is in addition to the required glass schedule, then I'll leave it up to you on what to do. If it is part of the required glass, then you'll want to fix it. Flaking epoxy generally occurs from one of two things. Either a) the epoxy did not bond to the surface that it was applied to, or b) the resin/hardener ratio was off and there was either too little resin or too much hardener. Too much hardener (versus the resin) results in a more brittle epoxy ...If you insist on making a mistake (haha), it's better to lean towards too much resin (versus the hardener) ...you'll just get a slightly more flexible result and that's not bad. We're talking about small errors here, so don't go away thinking that I'm being cavalier. Now on the other hand, if the epoxy did not bond to the substrate, then it could be because of a foreign material being on the surface (dust, grease, amine blush, etc) or the surface was very smooth and well-cured (months?). I once had to use a carbide scraper to scrape off a brittle layer of epoxy on an entire sheet of ply ...and all I can figure is that I must've gotten the ratio wrong and the stuff turned out to be too brittle. After scraping off all the old epoxy (you can also pull off fiberglass that didn't bond), I washed it all down with a strong ammonia/water mix, sanded with 80-grit, blew it off with compressed air, then washed with the strong ammonia/water mix again. After that, I recoated and was careful to make sure the resin/hardener ratio was exact and well mixed ...no problems after that. Chit happens...
Brian
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Great answers!
All good on the mumbo on the design, eye did underkastumble right up to wen me eyes started to glaze ova a bit.. :-\.. hehe,.
I ground off the offending laminate Brian. Was an important laminate.
Yes she's been cured a while that existing layup, probably 18 mths or as much as 24!
So all day today been grinding/orbital sanding the entire inside.... got itches to prove it too, an annoyed neighbors to boot! Bummer really, that was the idea to use peal ply, no sanding, oh well, that'll learn me.
Didn't want to have a repeat on ANY surface, got heaps of filleting and some laminating done.
Update/confirmation on propulsion system, Nissan TD42 donk with Vee drive pushing a 4 to 5 blade 13" prop - according to Muzzas mate here in Perth..... I have a non turbo donk in my Nissan Safari 4X4 - still in earthquake city - Christchurch NZ, I'll be shipping here to Perth soon, so just my re-power that too with a TD42.
Now, where'd I see the job in the mines advertized?
Hear they pay superb money.... ???
Ed
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Yup ...brittle epoxy combined with it being put on a less than perfect surface can be a heartache for sure. Gotta always apply epoxy to clean, dry, uncontaminated surfaces that have been roughed up a bit, and the epoxy must be mixed with the right ratio (and if measuring by hand by pouring into cups with crappy and crooked fill lines marked on it, then err towards caution and make sure you have enough resin v. hardener ...too much hardener is a worse mistake than too much resin, and being very far off on either is bad juju).
Will that TD42 have enough horsepower? I like the idea that it's a 6-cyl diesel, but wonder if the 130-ish horsepower of the non-turbo might be a bit light? And is the motor built with main bearings between every rod ...over-sized bearings hopefully? "Marinized car motors" generally don't last as long as a motor truly designed for marine use from the ground up. I don't know much about the TD42, except for what the Nissan wiki page just told me, so I can't say...
Brian
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Yea, I agree on the mix ratio's. One of my suppliers saying he once mucked up a mix, did 4 to 1 - 2 to 1 should have been mixed, well, it still went off, took a little longer, all was fine, think the brew was also from two different manufacturers too. I'm not keen to do that. You know it's the hardener that gives people "epoxyitus" it's a potent brew that stuff.
Long ago a friend building a concrete yacht in Christchurch NZ got his epoxy supplies from Shell oil in Lyttleton Harbour at half the usual price, anyone reading this can perhaps do research to see if this is still the case some place.
On another note Brian, whats the layup over those bearers? Also the 3/4" intermediate bearers?
Filleting flat out, glassing and floors over the next week
The TD42 is turbo I understand and can produce up to 200 HP, I keep thinking about all that heat under the bonnet.... I thought the Nissan 4.2 was only 92 HP, but with turbo and rechipping the computer can get up to 200 HP?
I know it doesn't pay to turbo the 4.2 as the TD42 has more oil journals etc for cooling, don't know much aboat the bigger bearings Brian, they are fairly bullet proof those donks if built correctly, Thing is, marine donks tend to be run at higher rev range for longer periods than when in vehicles, that's got to be allowed for if I am to build the marine version of the TD42....
Ed
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The motor: Yes, higher rev for extended times, but also working hard the whole time... like driving up a steep hill with your gas pedal 80% of the way down just to break even, and then keeping it that way. That's why marine motors have to have oversize tough bearings and good heat management. Pushing a 4.2 to 200 hp? That must involve some after market mods I'm guessing, e.g. high pressure pump etc.
I can't remember what I said in the instructions, but I always use 10-oz for the sheathing on the stringers. Remember that you are not trying to build a 'structural' glass treatment, e.g. that would require several more layers of glass, but are just trying to give them a tough (and stiff) outer layer. The beams alone provide the strength and the glass is not taken into account when the calculations are done. You could get by with 6 or even 4 ounce if you wanted to save epoxy, but I prefer the 10.
Brian
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The motor: Yes, higher rev for extended times, but also working hard the whole time... like driving up a steep hill with your gas pedal 80% of the way down just to break even, and then keeping it that way. That's why marine motors have to have oversize tough bearings and good heat management. Pushing a 4.2 to 200 hp? That must involve some after market mods I'm guessing, e.g. high pressure pump etc. Heck Brian, I dont like the sound of any of this, Looking at other donks now
I can't remember what I said in the instructions, but I always use 10-oz for the sheathing on the stringers. Remember that you are not trying to build a 'structural' glass treatment, e.g. that would require several more layers of glass, but are just trying to give them a tough (and stiff) outer layer. The beams alone provide the strength and the glass is not taken into account when the calculations are done. You could get by with 6 or even 4 ounce if you wanted to save epoxy, but I prefer the 10.
Cheers, 2 X double bias on tape to hull (36 oz) then 8 oz the rest - I have in stock. ditto all other bearers etc.
I'm building in the diesel tanks Brian, that area will have 18 oz 'liner' and 3 coats resin all over. looking at using the area from main bearers chine, but perhaps not if it's going to compromise motion while at ankor, early days yet.
Brian
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Don't make decisions on that motor based on my input ...I'm asking questions, not answering them! I would just look into it a bit and find out for sure what the whole story is before committing.
Diesel is compatible with epoxy, so you should be able to build your tanks. Tanks outboard or inboard of the outer bearers (web stringers) should be fine. Outboard will slow roll a tad but "in the noise" if you know what I mean. How much fuel are you thinking of? Keep it amidships or slightly aft, e.g. don't put it forward nor all the way in the stern. Also ...check with your insurance company. Sometimes homemade built-in tanks increases insurance costs, e.g. a repeating year after year payment, while commercially built tanks don't ...the long run savings may more than pay for the commercially built tanks. That's IF the insurance rates are higher for built-ins. Check and see... Most insurance companies are not keen with 'I built it myself'...
Brian
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Don't make decisions on that motor based on my input ...I'm asking questions, not answering them! I would just look into it a bit and find out for sure what the whole story is before committing.
I underkastumble, alas, I dont really know either, I have had no time to really research, I wish to visit Muzzas friend here in Perth, "hav'a beer" an shoot da breeze a bit with him on all things nautical so to speak...
Diesel is compatible with epoxy, so you should be able to build your tanks. Tanks outboard or inboard of the outer bearers (web stringers) should be fine. Outboard will slow roll a tad but "in the noise" if you know what I mean. How much fuel are you thinking of? Keep it amidships or slightly aft, e.g. don't put it forward nor all the way in the stern. Also ...check with your insurance company. Sometimes homemade built-in tanks increases insurance costs, e.g. a repeating year after year payment, while commercially built tanks don't ...the long run savings may more than pay for the commercially built tanks. That's IF the insurance rates are higher for built-ins. Check and see... Most insurance companies are not keen with 'I built it myself'...
Mmmmmm, insurance huh? yea...... scourge of da sea's dem da bean counters! Keel haul'm I say! >:(
Tanks thinking from aboat 22" forward of the rear transom to aboat 3M forward, there's aboat 600 Lt there (pints lol)
Love the idea of all that space midships free for useful stowage, then theres the grey water tank forward of the fuel tank Port side.....
Brian
A bit to do b4 floors are down huh!
Ed
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Here's a lnk to photobucket of my transom lamination/build
http://s832.photobucket.com/albums/zz247/Da-Edster/
Go to page 7
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Hey there Ed. finally got out to the boat, had to pump out the bilges after all that rain last 2 weeks. Whilst there I took a few foters of things not to do... and some done by me I will just have to tell later.
1st off is the reason why I came to this site, looking for cabin ideas. OK if the writing dont come out clear the red lines show the wasted space caused by the raked streamline cabin.. bit of a stupid idea for something designed to do 12 knots max.
The green is the potential space gained by a forward facing screen ala Prince Whatever, sorry Bryan if I bastardized your design drawing it... dont cry too much.
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If you are going to use the space under the captains chair for a fridge think about the door opening... we didnt. Once we installed the very fancy canter table/engine cover thingo we couldnt open the expensive fancy fridge thingo... Oh Farko we said.. result is a big waste of now unusable fridge space and a loss of money on compressors and chiller stuff..
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Opps file to big, just like the farkup!!!
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When designing the galley so the wahine can whip up some kai whilst you hunt ol' ika nui .... check the back of the oven for gas fittings, dont just build the woodwork based on the bumf from the brochure..... otherwise it will sit forward on the plinth and make it impossible to open the doors of the drawers beside it... well thats not the worst option, the other flash gas stove had a pipe fitting that came straight out the side and into the companionway!!! it wasnt left/right optional and it was very expensive ( read cheap Italian schitt for the 1st world countries)otherwise we could have drilled a hole into the sink bench and all would have been kapai.
Now dont laught too hard at me and my floating muckups Ed, coz at least all our muckups are afloat and capable of taking us out fishing!!!! :P :P
More design errors to follow...
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Hey there Ed. finally got out to the boat, had to pump out the bilges after all that rain last 2 weeks. Whilst there I took a few foters of things not to do... and some done by me I will just have to tell later.
1st off is the reason why I came to this site, looking for cabin ideas. OK if the writing dont come out clear the red lines show the wasted space This space usually houses the loo or shower or hanging lockers, never wasted - this space in my boot will house the loo/shower an udder side a locker an drawers caused by the raked streamline cabin.. bit of a stupid idea Mmmmmmm.... for something designed to do 12 knots max. remove da packed mud from under the peddle bud
, that'll get you a few more k's lol
The green is the potential space gained by a forward facing screen ala Prince Whatever, sorry Bryan if I bastardized your design drawing it... dont cry too much. sob, think the boot looks ok, but perhaps chain saw it in half and add a few feet.....? I didn't say that...
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If you are going to use the space under the captains chair for a fridge think about the door opening... we didnt. Once we installed the very fancy canter table/engine cover thingo we couldnt open the expensive fancy fridge thingo... Oh Farko we said.. result is a big waste of now unusable fridge space and a loss of money on compressors and chiller stuff.. hehe
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When designing the galley so the wahine can whip up some kai whilst you hunt ol' ika nui .... check the back of the oven for gas fittings, dont just build the woodwork based on the bumf from the brochure..... otherwise it will sit forward on the plinth and make it impossible to open the doors of the drawers beside it... well thats not the worst option, the other flash gas stove had a pipe fitting that came straight out the side and into the companionway!!! it wasnt left/right optional and it was very expensive ( read cheap Italian schitt for the 1st world countries)otherwise we could have drilled a hole into the sink bench and all would have been kapai.
Now dont laught too hard at me and my floating muckups Ed, coz at least all our muckups are afloat and capable of taking us out fishing!!!! :P :P Mmmmmmm muttta mutta mutta
More design errors to follow...
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ammuzzing readng lol, well I've bin chomping at da bit here - lottsa thunking to avoid um, things that go bump in the knee.
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Tranny on, looking at putting a door in, Mmmmmm, lotta work an lot of brain freezes, glazing eyes, coffee ana smoke had it sorted last w/e!
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Laminated the tranny with 2 x 6mm ply, short of room so built in inside the hull. Borrowed the bricks.....
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...I poured buckets of wheel weights on my pilot house roof when I was laminating it this weekend. Every try to pick up 170# of wheel weights in a bucket and pour them out? That's how many lbs are in a 5-gallon bucket... I have them because I smelt and alloy them for casting bullets ...got about 1200# of wheel weights sitting around under the bottom shelf in the shop...
Brian
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! typo? wheel or u mean real? lol
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Mmmmmm..... I want to laminate the coach roof too, prob use Divinacell - AU$280 a 20mm (3/4 frozen inches) sheet..... wot? and eithe r3mm ply sandwiched or perhaps glass direct to the foam, want to have the roof back a fair bit to cover us from the Perth sun and those 40 deg daz.... really not keen on any framing below the roof, and insulation is also a real concern so prob bight da bullet (lol) and buy 4 sheets - 2.050 x 1200 x 20mm, maybe another for the cuddy roof too.....
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Maybe you guys call them something else ...but around these parts, wheel weights are those curved lead weights that get hammered onto the perimeter of the rim (car wheel) to balance the tires. They are a pretty good alloy for casting bullets, unless you accidentally get the new zinc ones that is.
Brian
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Mmmmmm..... I want to laminate the coach roof too, prob use Divinacell - AU$280 a 20mm (3/4 frozen inches) sheet..... wot? and eithe r3mm ply sandwiched or perhaps glass direct to the foam, want to have the roof back a fair bit to cover us from the Perth sun and those 40 deg daz.... really not keen on any framing below the roof, and insulation is also a real concern so prob bight da bullet (lol) and buy 4 sheets - 2.050 x 1200 x 20mm, maybe another for the cuddy roof too.....
Do you have to vacuum bag that stuff if you are laminating layers of wood onto it? Seems like it would make sense and I know there are 'hacker' ways of doing it with shop vacs and what not ...if you don't already have the equipment. I've never tried it, nor have I looked too deeply into it. Another option is to create a sandwich roof that's filled with standard polyurethane or polyethylene (my preference) foam. I think Renn Tolman's book has details on doing it this way, and/or you can contact Neal Schlee at http://www.lasertechalaska.com and he'll send you pix on how he did it ...the guy's a craftsman. Cheaper than the divine-o-cell fancy shmancy stuff... Tell him I sent ya...
Brian
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Ed, sounds like U R thinking up good things to do with the space, boy rearward facing windows take up a pile of space, the stuff in between the 2 red lines on the starbord side of the Pelin pic is all downstairs piloting posn. With the forward facing screen it would all be moved about a metre forward and the port side would have room for a decent seating arrangement. far betterer.
It looks like U are really getting on to work now that the weather has cooled down a bit. Have you returned those bricks to the site up the road yet or are you keeping them for ballast to counterbalance the 3000 HP supertanker engine?
Keep working Ed, its looking good and I want to come fishing when I return to Perth in 201?.
Bryan, yip tire weights make good cast boolits, used to use em in .303 British coz for a while there we couldnt get boolits for it but now they are common as refugees... every shop has a few lying around doing nothing.
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...And I'll bet the boolit shortage had something to do with government, right? They are here to help, right?
Another benefit to forward leaning windows is that you can hang radios and what not from the ceiling in a place that's not in your face (head bangers) and doesn't take up room on the helm or dash. I still like radios mounted near the helm, not the roof, but some people like the roof area for that. Another benefit is that pass-throughs such as radar and antenna wiring that goes to forward gear on top of the roof can now pass through the roof in a place away from your head as well. I like the open feeling of having a windshield sloping away from me, and it also keeps the sun off salt spray on the glass so you get better visibility too.
Just my 2-bits...
Brian
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Yea kinda good idea, I understand the waste space, seems a Lotta work, not sure it wood look good..... mull that one ova, more eye thunk aboat it, might look ok.... round bilge helps too.
Pelin did lots of nice looking designs.
Wen eye wos apprentice back 100 yrs ago eye wanted to build one of his yachts, 26 ft cant remember the design name. Never did, too many cars'n girls! an 11's sat mornings too
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Mmmmmm..... I want to laminate the coach roof too, prob use Divinacell - AU$280 a 20mm (3/4 frozen inches) sheet..... wot? and eithe r3mm ply sandwiched or perhaps glass direct to the foam, want to have the roof back a fair bit to cover us from the Perth sun and those 40 deg daz.... really not keen on any framing below the roof, and insulation is also a real concern so prob bight da bullet (lol) and buy 4 sheets - 2.050 x 1200 x 20mm, maybe another for the cuddy roof too.....
Do you have to vacuum bag that stuff if you are laminating layers of wood onto it? Seems like it would make sense and I know there are 'hacker' ways of doing it with shop vacs and what not ...if you don't already have the equipment. I've never tried it, nor have I looked too deeply into it. Another option is to create a sandwich roof that's filled with standard polyurethane or polyethylene (my preference) foam. I think Renn Tolman's book has details on doing it this way, and/or you can contact Neal Schlee at http://www.lasertechalaska.com and he'll send you pix on how he did it ...the guy's a craftsman. Cheaper than the divine-o-cell fancy shmancy stuff... Tell him I sent ya...
Brian
Yea vacuum bagging is simple Brian and and yes I will vac the coach roof, vac really makes for building all sorts of elements in the build if you are a ditherererreer like me.... never been keen on Polyurethane - slightest movement ova time and it crumbles at the veneer layer to dust an oh heck the pain when a little mountain size gets in ur eye!
I agree on that foam too.... plurry expensive AUD$280 a 2M sheet 3/4".
Bean thunking, perhaps 2 x 3/16th spaced apart with 30H x 15mm W 'stringers' @ 200 centers fore'n aft, BUT still needs cross 'frames' @ 2 ft centers, to hold the curve, under it's own weight it will sag ova time. Perhaps polystyrene foam infill for insulation - we need that here.
Inexpensive and in the water I say!
You can use the compressor off an old fridge for smaller work like veneering doors, foam sandwich hatches, even sandwich panel with 1/8th ply and foam for that 800mm wide hatch on the cockpit sole (deck a'la Alaskan) this stops that springy feel to 1/2" ply even with the cleats you designed in. Generally people don't like 1 to 2mm floor movement....
Looking at a woodworker machine shop today - fatal o the wallet! out the back they had various wood veneers, got to thunking, Mmmmmmm nice transom look..... easy to vac on see.... just the maintenance Brian, even with the space-age tech in coatings these daz, high uv here and NZ too aye Muzza.
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A little more progress down aft, inside pic is the layered ply to stiffen up the transom when the door is cut out, 25mm of ply where it counts and 36mm of Jarra (Ozzie Hard hard plurry hard wood) laminated either side.
The 1" cleat on the LVL is to put a curve to the deck, thinking of a 1/2" ply to the LVL in the cockpit sole for water runoff thwart ships....
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The boat's definitely looking nice! Must have more time for these things than me...
And yes, if you do a foam-filled roof then you might want to think about putting solid framing or blocking in wherever you think you might need to screw something down, e.g. antenna mounts or radar pedestals etc.
Brian
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yea true, but at my age, I forget what I'm gonna put up there!
But, a wee trick, if I miss blocking or later want to screw down something, Ill drill a 10mm hole where the screw(s) are to go, then using an L shape alan key in a drill, poke the small end in the hole a pull da trigger, that get the foam loose! vac out the rubbish and fill up with epoxy resin, thicken up a little too,pourable though. Your local vet my sell you a large syringe that'll squirt it in too.
Ed
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I just used one of those syringes last night, only I buy mine from the local Feed & Seed ...they sell vaccinations and what not for farm animals and the syringes that go with them.
Smart trick on the mounting point hardening... I'll have to remember that!
Brian
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Ed. How right you are about the huge amount of work to replace the cabin but ..... ever since it did a submarine impersonation for a few days the ply throughout is slowly delaminating. It was not poxy sealed as the GA is.
Your bote is beginning to look real good, have you thort of a V8 and jet unit for it, I went out on one the other weekend, about 26 foot and it went grouse. Dont know thw economy but with that V8 thumping away who cares!!!! Boyz rule!!!!
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Ah yus! V8's rule! so does da friggin gas pump! Yes Muzza, poxy everythink, hat coat barter bullits - da lot. Aboat to glass all that hasn't been done, then get the Saw'all and cut her up the middle, add 3 ft an glass some more...... WOT?
Watch this space, oh, an Brians eyes!
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Test pilots huh..... you wait'n see..............
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..Go for it! :o ;D
bd
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hahahahahahahaha goodonyer Brian....... thunking aboat it..... we did this with new 'models' of fiberglass boats when I was apprentice, sliced up a smaller one, spaced out the parts as was required, temp filled in the blank bits, eye'd her up, chop'd and changed till it looked great, mixed half a 44 gal drum of bog, stood back an threw it on, then poor young apprentices - me - had to sand, fill, sand, fill, fair, fill'n sand till the fingers bleed, sprayed her up, cut'n polished, waxed 7 times, then took a mould off her. Then much more sanding wet'n dry till boss says so, cut'n polish, 7 more waxings, ready for the first lay up and pull - fingers crossed....
Gould those days the bog was made in shop, polyester resin and talc, chit you got real good at putting it on as the stuff was like rock sanding it, I got good at it quick!
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Ed, ya old fart ... When you was a boy/apprentice.. way back when.... Was that how you built Noahs Ark ;) ... They called it Gopher wood in them days, now we know it was resin made by the go-for(apprentice). Thats probly why it took 50yrs to build it, continually cutting it up and adding length as more animals was discovered and he musta had your BBq eating and beer drinking mates to turn it over.
Looks good so far.
I'm going to enjoy the streamlined Pelin for a few summers then have a chainsaw party in the delaminating cabin once I have used it and know whats important eg Bait fridge seperate from food fridge.
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Ed, ya old fart ... When you was a boy/apprentice.. way back when.... Was that how you built Noahs Ark ;) ... They called it Gopher wood in them days, now we know it was resin made by the go-for(apprentice). Thats probly why it took 50yrs to build it, continually cutting it up and adding length as more animals was discovered and he musta had your BBq eating and beer drinking mates to turn it over.
Looks good so far.
I'm going to enjoy the streamlined Pelin for a few summers then have a chainsaw party in the delaminating cabin once I have used it and know whats important eg Bait fridge seperate from food fridge. Farrrrk yea, do da separate fridge thing mate!!!! erm, dont ya hate it wen u've really cleaned ur hands and then.... ur nose..... still stinks!
Hiya Muzza, chit the shed got itself blown to bits 2day, phlat as'a pancake, wait a few weeks to let wind settle then build in again, new pipe (X2), new tarp, lottsa zip ties, can still glass tho, just tarp ova the hull screwed to the gunwales all round. Ain't no stoppin now!
Talkin of chain saws, I agree with ur cabin shape now,Brian convinced me, never thought of the interior side of it, lottsa room. I'll be cuttin the hull in half and adding a metre in width now.... buger, just cant seem to find a place to put the kettle in the cabin.....
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Sure ...turn it into a Float-tel! Add a couple of queen sized beds and a bar ...party hardy!
The boat's looking good there! Is that your computer whiz helping you out?
Brian
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Sure ...turn it into a Float-tel! Add a couple of queen sized beds and a bar ...party hardy!
The boat's looking good there! Is that your computer whiz helping you out?
Brian
Why Brian, plurry great Idea...... lol, nope just room for me kettle!
That's my little grandson Noah..... he's a big 5. Great helper too.... All 3 boys love running the length of the hull and climbing as high as possible up the stem to slide down.... cute.
Storm on Sunday - I was fixin son's shed for upcoming winter.... shoudda been at home, that'l learn me, worst in 10 years, 160,000 power outages, roof & window damage abounds.
Chin chin ol chap
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We get big wind storms here too ...sometimes with winds over 100 mph. If this happened in the Lower 48, it'd be all over the news ...but hey, it's in Alaska ...who cares? :o ;D
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There there Brian.. I care. Now that we got the emotional stuff over with git back to work.
Ed.. Saw on the telefishin that it reigned harder than old queen Liz over the weekend. Perthians wont be used to it... soon the lawns will be green instead of brown. Bet my mates irrigation was still running.... he didnt know how to turn it on and he certainly wont no how to turn it off HAHAHA.
You better get your Rse into gear.. I'm on track for escaping in Feb/March still & I wanna come fishing on the old Prinze Albert.... Once I secure employment I will help fill the V8s fuel tank! Hint Hint....
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Hi y'all
I saw that Mr Ed had slowed down on his boat so it being king low tides I put a couple of 44 gallon drums of fuel on the back of my 4x4 and drove over the sandflats to spend the weekend with him and inspire him. Unfortunately the tides wont be low for another 28 days for me to get back so I'm stuck here for a month.
Now I have decided to change his name to Noah and the boat is now known as the great Australian.
l
First thing I noticed is that this boat is bloody LOOOOOOONG and skinny looking. I reckon that he should just cut off 3 feet from the Rse end but noooo He's going to cut it up the guts and throw in another 2 or 3 feet.
Hopefully these pics show him in action... bloody vandal..
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He's giving me the gee willies... I'm closing my eyes...
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hahahahaha, trust me, I know what I'm doin..... ka-dunk.... oops fell off.
Been really disheartened by the event I am embarking on, see, I've already finished the hull, now having to finish it again isn't motivating I tell you!
Time has been in short supply - also being pooped after working and traveling 10 hrs a day usually does it.
But had last w/e off and started shaping the new main bearers to be glued in before the final cut, that got me chomping at the bit, a bit, then to turning her back over.... sigh.....
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I know that feeling ...the wife walked out last April so it's just me and my son here now. (That's not necessarily a bad thing ya know). BUT, all cleaning/cooking/etc around the house is done by me (not my work-ethic-lacking son) AND I work 8 hours a day plus 2 hours commuting. Boat shop time has been dwindling... not to zero, but not as much as I'd like. Of course, all that whiskey hasn't been helping either...
Brian
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hahahahaha..... yup know what ya mean, whiskey's good these times...... an'a nice cigar!
Bummer about the missus, mine left me about 22 yrs ago, came home to a 3 page letter!
Sad for the kiddies at the time..... never had'da missus since. Reckon there's the human race an the female race - 2 different feces er species lol
Don't get me wrong bud, oi still looking, cept they're always looking da udder way! ah chit.....
Cut the hull last noit, left 200mm attached then 800mm cuts. Not the bow, figure there may be some stress when time comes to turn her ova, incl the tranny. Both easy to cut when down sides up.
Not keen to post pic's on ur web as I don't want to give those wanna-be's ideas.
Unless one knows what one's doing better off not knowing.
Knocked off early 2day to glue up the 1st new bearer, she's 330 X 45 LVL stem to stern, took 100mm off the top in the forward cabin area, reckon the head room may enjoy it!
Thinking about 800mm wider will do her, then between the 2 bearers will be the diesel tankage and up the guts great storage for all those things one never uses or needs aboard.
ah well Brian, chin-up
Ed
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Hey Ed ...I'll buy all the beers you can handle if we can ever get together and tip a few. Send pix privately ...I'll try not to worry too much. For darn sure, make sure your wider and longer boat is made heavy enough or you won't get an appropriate waterline and the various stabilities that require it. Now's the time to invite the big gals on board... and have a rockin' good time at it! And if no big gals to keep ya company, then at least a few hundred pounds of ice and a lotta line ...
bd
PS: What the hell ...maybe I'll grab a gal and fly down to the land down under sometime and stop by your place to give you a shout... God willin'
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MATE! ur on!
Chit now there's a plan, big freezer under that sole, there's a bit'a weight, yea....... wymen? not sure aboat that in'a boat, bad luck aren't they?
Looking at cruisin 800 klm there'n back to fish, so need big tankage, also will have water ballast tankage to add weight wen needed to replace used fuel on those longer trips.
Chit that launched 28 ft'er can go! Looks great too for how he uses it huh.
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Did you see the vids of that 28 footer? The guy in the camera boat going full throttle and the 28-footer haulin' arse and passin' him! Adrian, the owner, told me that he had more throttle left but backed off at 47 kts... I only designed and modeled for 40, so that's a good thing. He picked up a bit of porpoising at speeds above 47, but hey, I can't model for those high speeds. I think his CG was a big aft, else it would go over 50 no problem. High speed boats have a monohedron hull form and this boat has it, so I suspect the CG needs a bit of tuning and he'd rock and set records... a real go-fast boat! Not bad for just haulin' a bit of tuna home... First out, first back, back in time for seared tuner next to the eggs and bisquits... life is good!
Brian
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Good GOD for real! That's haulin arse! Ant that's one of the reasons I liked this design, see I'm on the Indian ocean, there are no Island's and such to cruise around and get outta that weather coming in.... The west coast off Perth is void! No "nice little nooks and crannies" on the coast to shelter in, just git da flock back and tie her up!
Then those wee fishies on da BBQ.... Mmmmmm fresh, sweet, in butter too, yea baby!
Bit'a lemon an spices Mmmmmmm pieces fallin off ur fork.......
Oh heck, gotta put a pic or 2 up on the hull to remind me why I'm in there doin this lol
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Here's the substance of email's Brian & I had over motors and propulsion system, arguments for and agin.
Just another decision to be sorted....
From Brian:
Without weights of the components, I can't model the CG very well, especially on your version of the boat... but I'm going to guess that the closer the motor can get to the transom, the better. For propeller shaft angle, this isn't as good, but you do need to keep the CG in the right envelope so you don't create a boat that tends to bow-steer (CG too far forward) or porpoise (CG too far aft), and you'd prefer to keep the decks self-bailing, e.g. the boat, while at rest, trims slightly bow-up ...say 1-1/2" to 2" high at the bow for your boat length. If there is a risk of this not being true, consider compensating by slanting the decks downward toward the stern so water will drain out when nobody's aboard and the boat is docked in the rain. You would add long tapered spacers on top of the main stringers to do this, install them, then fit the web stringers and below-decks web bulkheads to this new run of the deck.
So ...I'm curious. Why an inboard? I understand avoiding issues with the leg on a sterndrive, and wanting better fuel economy than an outboard gives ...but does an inboard with its downward cant to the propeller shaft give better mileage? Its line of thrust would seem to be a bit less than optimal. And you don't get steerage without being underway, and pretty much zero steerage in reverse. I'm curious why you want the inboard ...what are the advantages? If the inboard has the economy of the sterndrive, then I get it... but if not, then hmmmm?
Thx,
Brian
From Ed
Well, Brian, I don't like outboards for a few reasons, on this boat, Petrol, not keen in the boat, taking a wopping 1/3 of the duck board space, batteries - how can the O/B charge all those, I will have on board, (ex - airline batteries, they're sealed and light.) now here's a rider, there will only be enough to cover the amperage I will use, solar panels to top up when at rest. Aircon & diesel heater, I can run this off the diesel, for those times of inclement weather.
There is here a nice place to 'drive' too, but it's 800 klm north, then while there why not go see Coral Bay - a further 1800 km north, hence the big tankage and diesel donk.
Auto pilot and GPS along with coffee's will be a nice crusie trip. looking at a 3 month trip.
The downwards cant on the prop I find an issue too, what to do?
The V drive ($5k) is 12 deg, the donk will be bolted as far back as possible allowing a little room to service stuff 'tween it and the transom.
Water ballast tanks are an option and will be allowed for in the build. So if needed I can plumb them up later.
Ed
From Brian
Oh yeah …diesel gets better mileage. A sterndrive would get better than the V-drive inboard, no?
I’ll try to model your boat for you, but it’ll be a bit before I can get to it and I’ll have to make some estimates …it won’t be exact (of course, it never is, right?)
Brian
Ed's revelation!
ok, so, there's 5k for the V drive, another 3k for the rest to the prop incl rudder, even say up to 10k for it all, that's enough to get a reasonable stern drive..... Oi like it.....
Ed
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Jeepers those insitu tanks take some work!
A few pix to wet ur head..... yep head, lotta sweat in the build, here it's a week of over 37 deg.
Mixing resin in half liter amounts, goes off SO quick, I get about 1M X 500mm on 12 Oz double bias done atta time, Sam gave a hand applying the peel ply.
Tanks need 0.02" or 0.58mm thick glass build on the insides, used 450gm Dbl Bias.
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Baffles, glassing those scuppers before the instal, much easier and more importantly, a good glass/resin seal
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Jeepers, glassing! I'm over it!
Just glass skinned the sides of the baffles, other side 2moro.
Glassed 2 sides of the tanks, other 2 sides 2moro, then baffles in, filleting, sand some, lottsa coats of epoxy resin over all of it, need 0.58mm thick.
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:P
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??? peel ply over the 12 Oz Dbl Bias cloth seen here.
2 side done, other 2 tomorrow.
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Great and fast progress! Lookin' good!
That's one huge centerline stringer too...
Brian
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Well, there's 2 of'm there Brian, for when t does the splits!
Heck it's so hot here in Perth, been 37c + mostly 40c that my resin is hard in hour an half!
The timber is that dry, I wet-out b4 glassing I let cure an hour, then glass, as the timber keeps soaking up resin out of the laminate.
Tank glassing again 2day, 3 cheers for Christmas break!
Now for some thunking on other things tankage
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Is that an extra stringer I see running on top of the fair body joint? Looks like it runs the full length.
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Gidday Grady 'ol chap.
Yep, 'tis an all, there's 2 in there, ready for the 'cut' shes oing to be made wider by aboat 3 Ft or there aboats, see as life wood have it, this boat wood've been in the tide now, but as it is it sits in the 'shed'
My building partner Herb was to have bought me out bout now, or starting too, but as life is he has other 'things'
that came up with his growing family, and being that I'm a neat guy ::) I let'm.
So I was to start a 40 Ft'er now, but as life has it, this is it, 'cept she'll be a few foot shorter, but when split this one a few foot longer..... ???
I built her as long as the sheets fell on the bench when the bottom planks were scarf'ed, ended up a few foot longer than the 28 ft'er..... :P from memory - and thats a short term thing too - shes aboat 31 ft as the crow flies. Upset Brian that much he changed vocations and got himself a speedster woman, plurry nice one two! :o
So, Mr Grady sir, hows ur ship going?
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Chivers, I've become a sub-lootenant, wot da flock is one'n those?
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Mr. sub-lootenant
I guess that means you be a bit further along in you build process than I am. I am just getting started with the cad work to send to my CNC to cut her out. I am going to be providing kits for the GA in 25, 26, 27 & 28 foot so I am doing the cad work for all four models before I actually cut my kit out. I currently have only been selling Tolman Kits thus far but have sent some prices out for the GA.
I also need to sell my Grady White Marlin 300 before the little women (the boss) will let me start building another boat.
Did I read you post correct on you beam width? how wide is you beam at midships at shear deck?
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Chivers, I've become a sub-lootenant, wot da flock is one'n those?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sub-lieutenant
bd
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haahahahahaa
yep, must be me then lol
The hull is as designed width, just spaced the rear half as per Brian's plans, usually a 34 ft'er is anywhere up to 12 ft beam, that's 4 ft wider than designed for GA.
I will be deciding once the hull is down side up before mixing the glue for the final beam. Got a few calc's to do after bowing out the cobwebs in my book shelf - and head!
Really not looking forward to 'starting' again on the hull, but as life has it........
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Is it progress when one has a gummied up eye from rubbing epoxy in it and tichy rashes over ones arms and legs? :o
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Dry fit the glassed baffles, they'll be filleted in then coat all tank surfaces with 3 coats epoxy resin, may do 5 coats.... last will be the cockpit sole - floor, probably one of the last works on the boat as it's too easy to forget this'n that!
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that one heck of an under deck floor system she's gona be a brute, nice work
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Yea! I look at t every morning thunking chit, ain't never gonna bust!
As u sea, the center bulkheads are the diesel tank baffles, I mixed up half liter filleting/glue thinking 'l do both at once, Wrong! takes a long time filleting small panels, so, ended up just gluing in and today filleting, just trying to cut out a day or 2 jobbing, tomorrow she'll be set up for turning over :(
The outboard stringers will be filled with closed cell foam (ulterlon or something it's called), the cut version, not poured it. Makes a plurry mess.
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I find that if you apply all the (thickened for fillets) epoxy that you mixed up along all the joints that you want to glass, that having it on the joint makes it last a lot longer before it kicks off. I often apply the stuff over a large amount number or length of seams, then when the epoxy runs out, go back and shape/clean up all the fillets, then finally follow with the glass (pre-wetted tape applied by hand). Just my 2-bits... but works in our temperatures (60 F in the shop) with the S-III #2 Medium that we use.
Brian
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Yes dead right, exactly what I do, I also mix smaller batches and lift the mix spread around the sides of the container. We have been getting 37 to 40 deg C heat here too, under my plastic 'roof' still is very hot. I have a 30" dia turbo prop fan revving along at 1400 rpm to dissipate the heat.
3 daz left of holidaz, move the hull 3 ft forward and 2 ft to starboard to roll her over, still not sure how it's gonna happen as the last time I had dismantled the 'shed' This 'shed' is more permanent, as not so long ago it was demo'd by some heavy weather.
Lots of tires and a come-along hooked up to a tree somewhere will do it. ???
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You probably have said in some of your other post but how many gallons or liters in your case will it hold? Looks like a lot!
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Yea she'll hold just under 1000 ltrs, that's a ton of fuel, thinking of a day tank in front of the donk...... been doing heaps of reading aboat tankage things. Fuel polisher to keep the tanks clean, as she'll be a job to clean out later, once the decks glass/glue down. There will be inspection ports, one midway other up forward, and the aft will have all the plumbing in one unit that'll suffice for another inspection port, even then not keen, diesel seems to seep every chance it can, the smell would irritate me.
Engines do have there own filters, some say that will do for a fuel polisher, as the diesel donks have a return on the fuel line - hot fuel. Undecided.
I have 800 to 1800 Klm trips planned when shes launched, up the west coast of Western Australia then hook a right heading East to Darwin, but this trip will be over a period of years, leaving the boat at some spot I like to later continue the trip.
So largish tanks are needed. As perhaps the fuel polisher may come in handy......
Geraldton 1st stop
http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Geraldton,+Western+Australia&aq=1&oq=ger&sll=-31.970804,115.933228&sspn=2.306639,4.202271&vpsrc=0&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Geraldton+Western+Australia&t=m&z=11&iwloc=A
Coral Bay next
http://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=Coral+Bay,+Western+Australia&hl=en&ll=-23.142096,113.771839&spn=0.078135,0.131321&sll=-28.779167,114.614444&sspn=0.297908,0.525284&oq=Coral&hnear=Coral+Bay+Western+Australia&t=h&z=13
Monkey Mia next
http://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=Monkey+Mia,+Western+Australia&hl=en&ll=-25.795293,113.719096&spn=0.009563,0.016415&sll=-23.142096,113.771839&sspn=0.078135,0.131321&oq=monk&t=h&hnear=Monkey+Mia+Western+Australia&z=16
Exmouth next
http://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=Exmouth,+Western+Australia&hl=en&ll=-21.931581,114.12323&spn=0.630584,1.050568&sll=-22.016907,114.364929&sspn=1.2604,2.101135&oq=exmouth&t=h&hnear=Exmouth+Western+Australia&z=10
That'll do for now! Google Map my route to Darwin.....
Ed
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Here's a good PDF on fuel polishing and systems, to get you up to speed where I'm at....
http://www.njlakefront.com/articles/Fuel%20Polishing.pdf
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Looks like a really cool trip and with 264 gallons on board should help lessen the fuel stops. Hum make me think about a little more cabin space I may do the same some time as I get a little further along in life.
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Well, didn't think she'd be back this side up again
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another
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down side up again
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Looks like a really cool trip and with 264 gallons on board should help lessen the fuel stops. Hum make me think about a little more cabin space I may do the same some time as I get a little further along in life.
Yes, there's not a lot in the way of pleasure type boat berths, a good anchoring system and GPS alert type component needed I thinking ???
I'd like to have an ele capstan front and rear.
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down side up again
WOW that is one huge flip. Are you going to have a little dingy to bring along to get to shore when you anchor off shore?
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...Record setting flip!
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Yep, gotta have a dingy, thinking of an older clinker style, gotta figure out how to load a V8 in it......
Yea Brian, took aboat 3 hrs to flip with A frames I welded up the day b4, what with coffee breaks every 15 min lol.
One part of my thinking could have left her at 28 ft an been about finished with the main structure, better part of me pleased at the planned expansion.
Emailed an outfit over east here, sells SEI after market stern leg parts for Mercruisers etc, half the price an made in USA.
He replied there's a stronger Yamaki brand made in Japan used in the fishing and milatary boats 8m to 12m range. Has a hydraulic gearbox.
Saying it's about 2 to 3 times the cost of Mercruiser and 10 times stronger.
Awaiting prices, keep you posted.
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Braced underneath for the cut....
I must stress, one needs to really know what he's doing before under takng such mod's!
Note to self.... read the above ???
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A few pix of the widening of my GA hull.
I am a boat builder, still did my head in at times, not for home builders to attempt.
Enjoy.
Ed
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Continuation of diesel tank build
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Last of the tank build.
Now hull is turned back for hull widening.
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The strong back built was 'under' the hull and hull bearers sat on this along with sheer shelf supported all to keep the 3 ft gap parallel - perfectly, I didn't want to introduce any twist into the build. Lasers were used extensively here, I use 3 of them in my day job so happy days!
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Lots of fairing, glassing, sanding, tape tape tape........
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Wow! Great update, Ed! Good that you're building heavy ...the boat will need the extra weight now that it's widened.
bd
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After lottsa filleting, glassing and sanding - hard trailer type anti foul 2 pak paint.....
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Ed,
That conversion is nothing short of incredible! What is your final beam dimension?
Cheers,
Dave in Homer
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Hi Dave. wife has now 3.2M beam, er that's about 4 pound 6 shillings and 6 pence hapenny in imperial size.
Short story, you know when the bottom blanks are scarfed from 4 (?) sheets ply? Well, I wanted her to be as long as legally allowed here in OZ, so added another half a sheet, except forgot to cut it in half.... so left it on. 1st mod.
So she's now about 29ft long. I did spread the rear 3 temp moulds further apart to keep that sheer and chine fair. 2nd mod.
2 1/2 yrs later after all undercoat on and sanded to 240 grit, and antifoul on, turned her right side up.
Then interior glassing and ply stringers done.
Got to thunking.
Trailer $18k..... that's 4 yrs marina lease..... Would like more beam for accommodation...
Desided to widen her to 3.2M (most this size are 3.6M) this also lengthened her too. split at the front end - think about it - cant have a flat front now huh, bow was now 900mm forward, thus her is now 10.2M long... so far.... depends where you hold the tape... hull or anchor. 3rd mod.
Draft is now 6" more also now, Got to keep her at 28ft GA LWL or she'll chine walk and just plan be pain ina bum floating about.
Dave your project is looking awesome too, no mods huh, launch her soon, get some of those salmon Brian just loves.
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Here's one way of getting curved ply, for say the transom - like I did, or cabin coach roof etc.
I used 2 x 1/4 ply for the transom.
1st drew radius I wanted on scrap ply or MDF. I got 3 of these out of 1 sheet. Boat is 8'6" wide so the 3" ova the width of the transom ply/MDF former stayed straight, I didn't tell anyone, they didn't notice!
Had some 2x1 timber strips from the dumpster at work did the trick for nailing on those formers about 1" apart.
Laid 1st sheet on the former and glued up the sheet with wet-ish epoxy - troweled on with 1/4" tilers notched plastic trowel.
Wet out the 2nd sheet with epoxy (b4 I made the balance into glue)
Laid 2nd sheet butter side down on the 1st and temp screwed ONE end of this sheet through the 1st and into the 2x1 timber strips & into the ply/MDF former, didn't the 1st time so when I started laying bricks over the top sheet - pop! timber strip popped off, not good nailing into end grain anything.
See pix for the other thousand words of instruction.... well, a pic is worth a thousand words isn't? :P
Proof that glue spread was good was when I cut out the transom door (which I cant find now) perfect laminate.
Note:
You will see a 3rd sheet of 18mm ply on top of the 2 @ 1/4 being laminated.
This is not necessary, I have laminated same since without this cover ply - (I didn't have any at the time) it works just fine without it.
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and
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You may pick up a process I forgot about here, just go ahead it will flow as you go.
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I cut another longer former for placing on the hull to keep the shape.
Level taped on the inside kept transom plumb for filleting.
I then cut the transom door..... cant find it now....
Thinking son has used it on his many projects......
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Fun time - working out the transom door placement.
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wow, ten and a half foot of beam, that's huge! Thanks for posting all the pics, you're a helluva a craftsman!
Cheers,
Dave in Homer
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...After Ed's done, I'll have to change the name of MY design to "The Mini Alaskan!"
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Ed's boat should be called The Great Big Australian
Amazing job Ed.
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Yep, we call her the great Australian......
Too much work, no boatbuilding, 20 sheets of ply been leaning against the shed wall.... a year now, last storm blew off the sun rotted chinese made tarp, boats bums clean though!
Thinkin of quittin work.....
Well, some of it, loyalities need to be on the boat!
Waddaya reckon?
Think I need to draft the hulls lines with super structure to get a well portioned boat, like Brian did, heck haven't done that since oh heck, um, anyways that'll requise splines ad ducks...... out with the sinkers and plaster of paris
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Ummmmmm........
Just lookin.......
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2000 horsepower! Love to give that boat a try (or two)! The boat's not big enough to carry the required fuel... about 10 minutes into it, he'll be calling the Coast Guard for a gas can... :o ::) ;D
Brian
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Must get a great deal when you buy 8 outboards at once! Would love to service that thing, might be a weeks work.
Ed your doing an amazing job on your boat, serious craftsmanship. Many years of knowledge and experience to do what your doing, definatly not for amature's.
Once I helped with an extension, never even thought of widening a hull. Ok...maybe I thought of it but not seriously. Takes some big you know what's to sawzall your almost finished hull in half lengthwise!
Quick question: The original bottom panels are scarfed together essentially making them one piece from keel to chine shelf fore and aft. With the addition, how do you address the lengthwise seam between the original panels and the added panels? I was thinking one long scarfed together butt block or maybe sistering another stringer to the ones you installed prior to the cut.
Anyway, always trying to learn, can't wait to see this boat flipped!
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Sorry Ed, hadn't gone all the way through your photobucket prior to posting the previous question.
That scarf must get real tricky up in the bow section.
Again.....amazing craftsmanship!!!
I have to laugh every time I read the word "Tranny" in your post. Where I'm from, a tranny used to mean the thing you shift in your car. Now it's a term used to describe a male person that wears makeup and wanders around in women's cloths etc. Short for transvestite.
Any updates on your build?
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hahahahahahahaha
aye yes a tranny can be many things ChiefD, minds a wooden one! :o
Cheers for your words, aways good to post pix for others to look over, I love looking at others builds.
You building?
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Transom ...transmission ...transvestite. I think I'll stick with the first two meanings and ignore the very-confused third one!
bd
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I'll agree with Brian on this lets stick with the first two, since he wrote it out I do see the commonality "trans".
Ed....currently rebuilding my wife's boat from bow to stern, a 1978 24' SeaRay flybridge with twin Mercruiser stern drives. My sons and I call it Moms boat because she wanted it, it's basically a floating condo not a fishing boat. It's gutted and getting all new bulkheads, stringers, sole, fuel tank.......you know the drill. I'm not sure how much of the crap I'm going to put back in but we will do what Mom wants!
We have 5 boats in our yard, 2 are fully functional and the rest in various stages of restoration. My twin sons are 27 yrs old and have been doing this with me their whole lives, they seem to like it.
I doubt Brian wants pics of boats on his forum other then GA's or maybe a Tolman.
I've only built one boat from scratch but have many rebuilds under my belt. Recently retired and wanting to build not rebuild in the near future, seriously considering a GA.
Your work is very inspiring!!
Derrick
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Derrick... Of course you can post about other boats around here. There are both the "Other Boat Building Projects" and "Other Boats that I Own" (new) forums that should capture 99% of what people might want to post about when it comes to non-Glacier Boats of Alaska boats... It's all good, all for fun :)
Brian
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Oh boy.......Brian you know I'm technically challenged!!!
I have a hard time typing let alone posting pictures. Since you have been so patient with me I'm going to give this my best shot.
All the build pics of the SeaRay so far are on my IPhone, not sure of the quality but that's what I have or I could take a couple pics with a real camera of where I am now.
The 18 ft "Hawaiian style" skiff the boys and I built a couple of years ago is in the yard, it's been a great little boat. No build pictures as they were on my previous phone that died " gotta learn to back this stuff up" I'll take a couple shots of that with the real camera and TRY to post all of this on one of the other threads you mentioned.
Wish me luck!
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Luck!! 8) ;D
bd
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Derrick... Of course you can post about other boats around here. There are both the "Other Boat Building Projects" and "Other Boats that I Own" (new) forums that should capture 99% of what people might want to post about when it comes to non-Glacier Boats of Alaska boats... It's all good, all for fun :)
Brian
Mate!
Good on yer, thing is I envy blokes like you, I could never rebuild a boat, I woodn't know when to stop then probably have spent as much as starting from scratch!
I agree with Brian, post anything.... I do hahahaha
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Derrick... Of course you can post about other boats around here. There are both the "Other Boat Building Projects" and "Other Boats that I Own" (new) forums that should capture 99% of what people might want to post about when it comes to non-Glacier Boats of Alaska boats... It's all good, all for fun :)
Brian
Mate!
Good on yer, thing is I envy blokes like you, I could never rebuild a boat, I woodn't know when to stop then probably have spent as much as starting from scratch!
I agree with Brian, post anything.... I do hahahaha
The 'anything' parts are the best parts!!
Brian
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Ed, you working too hard at your day job lately?
What's up with your boat, I'm sure your doing something!
We need our fix, pictures please.
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hahahahahaha
Look I can't sing or whistle so gotta keep day job see ;D
The hull's been ready to turn back up for the last year, in fact the plurry last winter storm blew off the sun rotted tarp.
The boys started their own building company here so that now keeps me away after hours too.
Just finished QS on a house reno for them, oh and cut the end off of me thumb too, that's recovering with a graft, stitches out next week - 3 down 7 to go, and 7's a lucky number aye! (don't use a new 3/4" new craft knife to trim drywall, use a sureform shaver!)
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Wish all the best to your boys new company! Don't let um work you too hard.
Kid's I tell ya, helping one son build a Jeep, helping the other kid build himself a new house.
Haven't touched one of my boats in weeks and I don't even have a real job anymore!
Can't figure out how I got anything done when I did work.
God I love retirement!!!
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Yea Cheers ChiefD,
Started a project with the grandson yesterday, awesome little 6' dinghy, a Portuguese style dinghy.
Free plans from http://koti.kapsi.fi/hvartial/dinghy1/simboii.htm - hope I spelt that all ok.
3 hours in and there's a boat, any chance the Gt Alaskan can be built this quick Brian?
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A few more pix
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Of course you can build a GA in 3 hours! It's just a matter of a few adjustments to the process ...like for instance, build it to 3 inches long and call it good!
bd
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Yea!
That's it!!!!!!! :P
Wish you told me that long time ago Brian............
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Yea!
That's it!!!!!!! :P
Wish you told me that long time ago Brian............
:o ;D 8)
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Cool little project with your grandson Ed. Being half Portuguese I almost feel obligated to build one!
With our first grandchild due this January your build here inspires me to look for plans to build a little boat shaped rocker for her.
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Thank you Chief, look do it now, I have 2 no heck now 3 grandaughters, 2 of them live in the same house with the family & I.
You know daughters are GODS gift to fathers an especially grandfathers Chief....
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Ok Ya'll, I spent about 2 hours typing a post, and a pic to upload, so, Brian, if you find it anywhere on this site delete it as here goes again, and you know, the second time typing the same post ends up shorter, probably a good thing too....
Lol reminds me, heck we can do nutty things, tried changing the TV channel other day with the puta mouse.... shifted it left to the 3rd screen..... oops that's the TV lol, and looking for the mouse to turn the page when reading a mag at the desk? Don't work either hahahaha....
So here is the drawing for the Great Australian, attached, there's 12 hrs work in it, enjoy.
210 to 300 HP diesel donk - Cummins 6BTA, probably get one from truck wreckers and marinate it myself, where's the vinegar?
7 Deg shaft angle, probably a straight inline shaft setup with skeg - that's yet to be decided as it'll affect the planing.... good to protect the running gear from the hard stuff at sea.....
2 x 500 Lt epoxy tanks built in (done) that's $1200 - $1600 to fill'er up chit! We have a free market fuel supplies here, Mondays cheapest @$0.96 Lt to Sunday @ $1.24 Lt. Law says can't be changed day time, only midnite. But wharf prices are different....
Cockpit sole is @ 6" above LWL, saloon sole unfortunatly a few steps up, but the thing is to keep side decks at the cockpit about 26" for that net to pick up ur catch! So the aft sections are close to the original design Brian, as is the overall side elevation.
Like'd the curve up on the forward topsides, so drew that in, kept the cockpit topsides low.
Good amount of headroom throughout too, seems the elevation looks ok with it.
Got to engineer a way to build that cockpit coach roof without rear support posts, and keep weight off up there too, thinking 3 I beams in carbon the full length canter-levering on the rear cabin bulkhead, not much in it so cost wouldn't be too great, 1/4" ply-foam-ply with the balance of the build.
Cabin sides and rear saloon bulkhead also ply-foam-ply, 1/4" ply & 1/2" foam.
Cockpit sole will be 2 layers of 1/2" ply with a 1-3/4" camber, got so much Aussie hardwood from sites, Jarrah, heavy but solid, not a fan of spongy decks!
Next is the temp shed on a commercial site, with a small locker for me to stay over weekends, go missing so to speak!
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Actually Brian, the keel as drawn isn't correct, when I extended the width, I thought I may have an issue with it, as the forward dead-rise is what it is, as you designed, to have the extension fair in, the keel is deeper at the forefoot, by aboat 3".
You seen those launches with there forefoot deeper than the after dead-rise? it's to get the dead-rise wanted at the forefoot, otherwise we end up with 13 deg dead-rise throughout right? ???
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Actually Brian, the keel as drawn isn't correct, when I extended the width, I thought I may have an issue with it, as the forward dead-rise is what it is, as you designed, to have the extension fair in, the keel is deeper at the forefoot, by aboat 3".
You seen those launches with there forefoot deeper than the after dead-rise? it's to get the dead-rise wanted at the forefoot, otherwise we end up with 13 deg dead-rise throughout right? ???
Interesting side effect of slicing the boat in two from end to end and then making it wider! I'm sure it'll work fine, although I'd prefer you adjust the center of gravity far enough aft to raise the f'w'd keel to be the same depth as the aft keel, or even an inch or two higher. In a perfectly balanced, as-designed, 26-foot GA, the bow trims 1-1/2 inches higher than the stern, FYI. With the forefoot running deeper, I would wonder about digging in when coming off a following swell, creating a slight tendency to broach ...but maybe on a 33' long boat, the 3" isn't enough to worry about?
Brian
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Yep always a concern the broaching issue going downhill on a down wind run, usually the waters going the same way, so, perhaps the skeg build isn't such a bad idea......
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Yep always a concern the broaching issue going downhill on a down wind run, usually the waters going the same way, so, perhaps the skeg build isn't such a bad idea......
The rules for avoiding broaching are:
1. Try for balanced ends. A stern that is narrower than amidships, down to about 70-75% of the max waterline beam combined with a forefoot entry that is neither too fine (digs in) or too bluff (puts the brakes on when you hit a swell). Most of the lift for a planing hull is developed amidships (along the 'line of stagnation' ...the 'V' shape of water cut by the hull - this means that narrowing the stern doesn't lose much planing capacity. You do however, lose stern flotation. For an inboard like yours, this is not an issue. For those that like big heavy outboards on 'offshore brackets', this IS an issue. The GA is 3" narrower at the stern than at amidships... not much of a change, but better than nothing.
2. You want the center of lateral resistance to be aft of the longitudinal center of gravity. Thinking of a boat being pushed sideways through the water (like by a tug or barge), what type of 'sail' does it make versus the water? Having an aft skeg, like your inboard, guarantees that your lateral center of resistance is indeed aft of the LCG. For planing hulls that have a fairly prismatic (monohedron) hull form. the lateral resistance is fairly evenly distributed along the hull, and if the hull is a warped hull (amidships deadrise more significantly higher than the stern deadrise), then the center of lateral resistance may actually be forward of the LCG when not on plane. The best way to fix the issue then, is to add a skeg or keel aft of amidships ...just make sure it tapers up to meet the hull far enough short of the transom so it doesn't cause prop cavitation on hard turns (especially when accelerating ...like to head into a wave to prevent capsize).
The bottom line: Your boat will be fine. The GA could use a little skeg aft of amidships, but then again, I'd like the boat to be beachable ...let the builder be aware and build and use appropriately.
Brian
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Yea....
That's what I said.... :o
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Yea....
That's what I said.... :o
I re-read what I wrote, and it sounds like one big confusing run-on sentence to me. I'm no literary giant. :( Hopefully, I got the right points across?
Brian
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yes an excelant answer I did understand Brian.
Been a loooong time since I read up those issues in design.
So very much appreciated.
Skeg it is to be then.
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I had planed on turning the hull over last weekend. The forcast was rain all week and indeed it rained!
While shes bum up I'll weld up a solid steel cradle, coat of paint, strap it onto the hull for a turn over.
This weekend is now welding and lotsa head scratching for easiest way to turn her.
Tyres, jacks, endless chain & coffee.
Yep that'll do it.
A full size mockup of the extended topsides forward and interior with 6 mm MDF and hot glue.
Be good to tweak the interior before mixing glue.....
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Weld up a round frame around the boat so you can just roll it over. Or get about 30 friends over, 30 bottles of Irish Whiskey, and that boat'll turn over at some point during the night... :o ::) ;D
bd
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C,mon Ed.
Get R Dun !!! If you get the commercial block with a shed on it I can give you a few good ideas on how to set one up for sleeping in. Got my head in a far better space after a few years of hell. So good to see you making some progress, and gee hasn't Phelix grown a heap. Can just see him launching down the road at the boat club and rowing round the basin. Bet old Gramps has a big smile on. Hows the 'coon, still humming along?
Muzza.
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Gidday cuz!
Chit waddaya up to uther than fishin?
Gotta flip the hull 12 Nov. Making steel cradle this weekend, er, need help flipping here over though, she's 3.2m wide now....
Havin a beer & BBq day too, so, thinking on that note, figer we will have the beers first, flip the hull then BBQ.
Just gunna make the whole lot easier on all I recon.....
Repair the damage later....
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... More pix! (Especially of said turnover....)
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Dream boat.......
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That's beautiful... And if you buy it, you don't need a house anymore (and no more lawn mowing in that summer heat!)
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Ur right, no bloody brown lawns, I never have had luck keeping ANY lawn green!
Pix of the flip few wks ago, thought few of you may enjoy, sayswho visited us here in Perth fortnight ago helping flip the 3.4M wide hull, it was fun lol, wait for the vid I will post on photobucket soon, called "62 yr old man gets airborne filpping his boat" !
Mad rush after Monday week to get the 4M high shed roof up - the heat & rain here is tropical to say the least.
Next will be a 1/4" MDF mock up of the hull topside extension forward of the aft bulkhead, to get a boat to look more in proportion to it's new size, cockpit topsides to stay the same as will the floor for better fishing, decks I'll build 12" wide as Lamont has 12" feet, the saloon floor will be raised about 8" to get the Cummins donk under and that'll sit below it, from there it's all up to getting the cabin & cuddy shape as up drew it - love the design here Brian. If I got me pencil & rule out on paper as I was taught 100 yrs ago then all this mock up wouldn't be needed.....
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darn it, this pic just doesnt want to go up'n-dickular..... >:(
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Sayswho, Jack & ol fart Ed just aboat to flip the hull, tieing on a strap to slow the thing from doing that last rotation.....
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I'll just hold her with this bar.................. righto sayswho (Lamont) & Jack, start winching up slooooowy
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Nice.... done.... vid of flip to view on photobucket soon..... (62 yr old man gets airborne flipping hull)
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Wow and congrats! That's a boat and a half for sure! Looks great! Looking forward to the flying man vid... :)
Brian
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Ed,
Gotta have good footing when we're getting those monsters in the GBR!!
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So, what happened to you young fellas looking after us op punks flipping a hull huh?
lol, ya did well with winching up the front pointy end LaMont thank you!
Was to have the shed up by now, seems all our debitors took off for their break with our money!
And as we're into that 30 -40 deg C heat theres no chance of working on the etc with a mock up of it all.
So as we are setting up another income stream in the new year, again it'll be slow progress. Good thing is, I'll be making sure there is a spot for the boat inside the building.
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As long as you keep up the progress now and then ...it'll get done :) Do a little something everyday, even if it's just design and planning....
brian
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It was nice being able to actually see one up close. Keep moving forward so I have an "excuse" to come back to Perth.
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For sure Sayswho, send you & Brian a ticket for the launch..... one way lol
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For sure Sayswho, send you & Brian a ticket for the launch..... one way lol
;D
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A year ago Sayswho came over to Perth to help flip the hull.
I have made a few mod's, as a boat builder no problem, and as a boat builder of old flipping the hull is done anyway that's handy. Just get it done and deal with issues as they arise.
Oops.............
Here's a link to a vid my son took of the process.
https://youtu.be/pbgA9p4azr4
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Hahaaa!! What do you call THAT maneuver? A two-step quicky and a Bosanova? You did a pretty good job at staying upright right up until the bush plunge!
The boat's looking great, BTW!
Brian
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There are more than one way to get your ass kicked!
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There are more than one way to get your ass kicked!
Yea hahahahahaha..... one of those jobs where a few beers were in order to get the thing done, didn't know how, just kinda happened.....
Those wanting a new link to Photobucket album http://s832.photobucket.com/user/Da-Edster/library/?sort=2&page=1 try this.....
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If y'all havin trouble with my photobucket link (Photobucket have changed their site quite a fear (lol) bit)
Try this - "http://s832.photobucket.com/user/Da-Edster/embed/slideshow/"
Here's a good how too - making fillets (not steaks either)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jApI_YXDeGQ
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I just clicked the link - worked for me, there is a mobile app for Photobucket on Play & Apple sites.
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I just clicked the link - worked for me, there is a mobile app for Photobucket on Play & Apple sites.
Thanks, Ed! I just posted the slideshow link to our facebook page ... great use of peel ply. People have a need to know!
On that fillet.... Nice video!
How's things in your camp? What's the status on your Great Australian?
Brian
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Gidday ya'll, Photobucket................ It appears they now have skin on the amount of D/L of pix from people viewing my album.
Not sure what to do here....... never keen on paying monthly fees on any web site OR software.
Prefer to own software and tools too! (not rent them)
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Ideas anyone?
Maybe I start a fakebook account called um..........
The Great Australian (lol)
Post all the album there, that way it costs suckerburg ;D
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I just clicked the link - worked for me, there is a mobile app for Photobucket on Play & Apple sites.
Thanks, Ed! I just posted the slideshow link to our facebook page ... great use of peel ply. People have a need to know!
On that fillet.... Nice video!
How's things in your camp? What's the status on your Great Australian?
Brian
Keep the link Brian, I love for others to view pix if it helps, maybe I could have created a channel on ewetube
Got to find another way to have them up for others...........
(might have been de-platformed as there would have had my grand daughter in there visiting poppa building a boat! as has happened to 3 channels I sub'd too with families sailing the world with comments disabled - creepy ewetube)
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Hey ya ol' fart ... it's about time that we heard from you again! Yeah ... I'm not the expert to recommend photo hosting sights. Photos suck up a lot of disk space and bandwidth, so I'm not surprised that they charge money. If I were you, I'd start an FB sight as you mentioned and just upload a couple of pix at a time ... tag Glacier Boats of Alaska in all of them! Ok, but it's free anyway.... let SUCKERberg pay for it....
Brian
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I agree, we need more pics and post from you ed?
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Gidday ya'll,
I got John-Paul here with me, looking at my boat lol..... saying he's 85% he's going do take it, so, Brian you got plans for the 30 ft'er around some where we can use for John-Paul?
He's looking for ideas on cockpit & cabin design, actually free-board difference from the 28 ft'er to the new 30 ft'er is whats needed, something I was going to eyeball with a sheet of 1/4" MDf.......... a texter & spray paint to change lines to look ok, and of course the cuddy headroom also to focus on...... these things I have no issue with as it is my old trade.
He's looking to clamp on 2 x 115 O/B's for simplicity in the engine & rudder engineering side, more work if installing an inboard.
Me? Well I'll looking at a 28 Ft H28 sail boat - being as I'll be on a pension soon, that Detroit or Cummins engine and $1600 of diesel fuel tank fill up on the Great Australian gonna suck up a few $$..... means setting up living under a bridge lol....
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Gidday ya'll,
I got John-Paul here with me, looking at my boat lol..... saying he's 85% he's going do take it, so, Brian you got plans for the 30 ft'er around some where we can use for John-Paul?
He's looking for ideas on cockpit & cabin design, actually free-board difference from the 28 ft'er to the new 30 ft'er is whats needed, something I was going to eyeball with a sheet of 1/4" MDf.......... a texter & spray paint to change lines to look ok, and of course the cuddy headroom also to focus on...... these things I have no issue with as it is my old trade.
He's looking to clamp on 2 x 115 O/B's for simplicity in the engine & rudder engineering side, more work if installing an inboard.
Me? Well I'll looking at a 28 Ft H28 sail boat - being as I'll be on a pension soon, that Detroit or Cummins engine and $1600 of diesel fuel tank fill up on the Great Australian gonna suck up a few $$..... means setting up living under a bridge lol....
Hi Ed! Long time no hear!
Questions.... in order:
1) The Kodiak Addendum is for a 9-1/2' wide by 28' long version of the Great Alaskan - It includes info to build from 27' to 30' long
2) The Kodiak Addendum does NOT provide additional house plans - The standard Great Alaskan includes 3 that work. If you follow the instructions in the standard GA manual, you'll build the house out wider to fit the wider hull.
3) Freeboard difference is that the Kodiak is 1/2 a foot deeper than the standard Great Alaskan - this is true inside and outside the boat.
4) Cuddy headroom is high enough to sit UPRIGHT on the bunks without the ceiling being a head-bonker, and the headroom inside the pilot house is 6' 4" (unless you raise the deck)
5) The 2 x 115's are fine for your OR my boat. I have in the back of my mind a minor mod for the GA that'll give it an extra 200-300 lb stern capacity that I'll likely work out and publish as part of the Kodiak Addendum - it'll be the "hi-load" option, designed for those trying to fork an old Volvo sterndrive into the boat or who will need extra stern capacity, e.g. hundreds of pounds of ice and a 6-pack captain running charters - the mod gives a little more flexibility in boat loading and a new max displacement of around 8500#
Does the above help?
Brian
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Heck, lotta waters been under the bridge since I was here!
Have not heard from John Paul since......
Got rid of the hull I built, now boatless :-(
Building a house with son soon, that'll keep me off the streets for a bit.
Ed
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Hi Ed, Long time no see! If someone else is finishing that boat out, it would be fun to know about it ... maybe see some pix?
bd
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Brian! Gidday, nope hull had the "marine' ply - stamped on these sheets etc, fail when rained on, 4 18mm (3/4") panels along the keel, 2 things here, leaving it too long and imported Indonesian marine ply, a hardwood too, was crap.
Needing much to rebuild, it got left - so, finally scrapping the hull a few months ago.
Heck I hated doing that, anyways it's 'water under the bridge' eh.
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That's OK ... it was a huge undertaking. Life gets in the way sometimes (mostly always) ...