Potential builder - advice wanted!

[Jfrost30]

Hi all, I?ve been lurking here and on Fishyfish for the past 6 months or so.  I want to build a GA or a Tolman but I can?t decide which or why.   I know almost all the differences (?monohedron?, more efficient hull, less deadrise, more hull volume, etc.), but I?d still love your 2 cents.

I?m a competent amateur builder - this will be my 4th, and largest by far, stitch-and-glue boat. 

Basically I?d like to build a boat for 80% family cruising - camping, tubing, etc., 20% fishing.  It?ll be mostly a Puget Sound boat (rarely out to the coast), but occasionally will cross to Vancouver Island or maybe the inside passage and some exposed seas there. The sound is pretty friendly, but it can definitely blow some days.   

Hoping to primarily trailer it, not store in a marina, so weight is a factor, and I don?t want to tow a 28-30 foot boat. 

At this point, I?m thinking a 24-26 foot boat with a head, fridge, heater, and room to sleep 2 adults (I?m 6?6??) and 2 kids.  The ?Pau Hana? that I?m sure a lot of you have seen looks pretty ideal size-wise. 

Construction space is also a big factor.  I will likely be building this in a standard garage (hopefully 3-car, but we?re moving, so we?ll see), so that means no overhead chain lifts, no building it on the trailer after the flip, and will probably mean that I build the boat on the ground, essentially, with the wheelhouse, then have to cut it off at the base of the pillars, and reassemble/glass it when outside of the standard 7-foot garage door and before the windows go in. 

I?m also a bit intimidated by the weight of 3/4?? ply compared with 1/2?? - seems like it?ll be a lot harder to move around and flip, but I?ve never build something like this before, so who knows. 

Anyway, thanks for listening to my ?design brief?, I appreciate your thoughts. 

[Jfrost30]

Since I didn?t explicitly say it - I?m basically trying to decide between a Jumbo Tolman and a GA.  Sorry!

[Brian.Dixon]

I would say that if you want 24' or shorter, go with a Tolman Jumbo.  If you want 25' or longer, go with a Great Alaskan.  If you want 24', then a 25' Great Alaskan is so much more boat for your money, I'd strongly consider going with a 25' Great Alaskan instead of a 24' Jumbo.

[Brian.Dixon]

The Pau Hana is a 26' standard Great Alaskan, FYI ... really a nice size, nice boat

[Jfrost30]

Hey Brian, thanks for your input.  LOA will definitely depend on the amount of shop space I end up with.  24 feet is appealing, but seems more manageable to get a useable cabin with a head, to stay out of the rain with 26 (or more, I can see why people go that way often).

[Brian.Dixon]

Building these monsters often requires creativity ... things like building temporary shelter around your open garage door to temporarily extend your 'shelter', or low building jigs with wheels so you can roll it around to get access to various sides of the boat while you work on it etcetera.  They've been built under outside lean-tos, canvas tarps, and even with no protection at all.  Some have 'borrowed' space on friend's properties and put in temporary shelters for the project, e.g. the Simpson Bow Roof Shelter.  I figure that the bigger the challenge, the bigger the joy when it first hits the water!

[Todd j]

I?m with Brian.  If you can do a 25? jumbo, just do a 26? GA.  Do build to the max size of your building.  The boat will never be too big.  Either way your facing the same challenges.  Flip is no biggy with crew of strong backs, I did mine entirely by my self with 2 chain falls and proper rigging.  With My experience, if I was  6?-6? tall, I would require more headroom than the wheelhouse provides as designed.  In your case you could use that to your advantage if you plan to pull the sides/roof off anyway. 
  It would be pretty simple to add 3/8? to the sheer decks and build from it as a flange.  Pull the whole assembly off and reinstall after it?s outside.  There would be no evidence the top was cut off.
   My opinion for what it?s worth, you will sacrifice something to gain the head.  I was set on a full stand up head.  Changed my design after I started constructing it and I?m very happy without one.    I use a luggable loo with a cubic foot bucket.  Works awesome as it has only used on overnight trips while on the hook. 
My .02

[Jfrost30]

Thanks Todd, I appreciate your thoughts.  I?m not entirely sold on needing an enclosed head, and it will definitely eat up cabin/wheelhouse real estate.  There?s a guy on Fishyfish who did that - cut the roof off his boat and reassembled outside, so I?m not super intimidated by that idea.  I guess vs. deconstructing the garage or removing the header.  Not sure which would be more of a pain.  I think the instructions (very high quality for the GA, vs poor quality napkin-drawings and ramblings for the Tolman) argue heavily towards a ?short? 26 foot GA.  If i end up with space for a 26 foot boat, maybe a 30 foot garage space, then I?ll probably go for that. 

[Jfrost30]

Also, sorry I haven?t combed through the plans in too much detail yet - do people not build the cabin floor at the base of the stringers, like they do in Tolmans?  I?ve seen Brian recommend wheelhouse deck at the top of the stringers and then raising the pilot house roof on another thread, I think?

[Todd j]

I don?t know of a GA that has been built with basically a deck between the stringers down low as you suggested.   Certainly a way to gain much headroom.  Not sure how that works structurally.   I built the hull 4? taller and made the stringers  taller in the pilot house.  You could do the same and not add to the stringers as I did and gain 4? without making the boat look too top heavy.  I think the boat looks better with the taller sides personally. 

[Brian.Dixon]

I don?t know of a GA that has been built with basically a deck between the stringers down low as you suggested.   Certainly a way to gain much headroom.  Not sure how that works structurally.   I built the hull 4? taller and made the stringers  taller in the pilot house.  You could do the same and not add to the stringers as I did and gain 4? without making the boat look too top heavy.  I think the boat looks better with the taller sides personally.

The GA can be built to 25' long - the 26 to 28 foot range on the standard GA is a real sweet spot for this boat.

Between handrails, the GA has 6'4" headroom inside the house when the house deck is right on the stringers.  Several have made the pilot house taller by up to 4 more inches (6'8" headroom) - the typical approach is that if you want more headroom than what's provided, go ahead and make the house taller but then add the optional bulwarks along the sheer to maintain proportionate aesthetics. 

For the cockpit area, to make the boat more forgiving of a wide range of trim angles/loadings, I'm planning on updating the manual to suggest a cockpit deck that is raised and sloped.  I would raise the aft end of the cockpit deck by a couple inches and raise the fore end of the cockpit deck by 4+ inches to give about a 2" downslope towards the stern.  No need to raise the house deck to match ... a small step down into the house is fine.

Also, to maintain aesthetics and a wider variety of trim angles, I also suggest the 'smile' shaped spray rails shown in the 'Alternate spray rail' drawing ... and a waterline or bootstripe to match.  I'm probably going to go with this version of the spray rails as the standard and will get rid of the original straight-run rails.

[Jfrost30]

Hey Brian, thanks for the reply. Is there a reason not to lower the cabin deck by 4 inches rather than raise the cabin sides/roof by 4 inches? I?d love to avoid raising the height if possible. Thanks!

[Brian.Dixon]

Hey Brian, thanks for the reply. Is there a reason not to lower the cabin deck by 4 inches rather than raise the cabin sides/roof by 4 inches? I?d love to avoid raising the height if possible. Thanks!

You can safely lower the deck inside the pilot house if you do it between the stringers (only) - Outboard of the stringers, the deck should remain on top of the stringers.  You'll give up space for the forward fuel tank if you lower the house deck though - but if you don't need the extra fuel, then no big deal.

[Jfrost30]

Awesome, thanks!. I was actually thinking saddle tanks or a tank beneath the cockpit deck.  I don?t expect to need more than 70-100 or so gallons at a time. I?m sure I?ll have a million more questions as I go along.

[Brian.Dixon]

Awesome, thanks!. I was actually thinking saddle tanks or a tank beneath the cockpit deck.  I don?t expect to need more than 70-100 or so gallons at a time. I?m sure I?ll have a million more questions as I go along.

If you look at the tanks and locations in the  26' GA (see the 000x drawings), note that the fuel is more or less balanced around the aft pilot house bulkhead or a little further aft.  You want that ... however you add tanks (box tanks under settee seats in the house, saddle tanks, belly tanks etc)

This pic shows how the difference between a Jumbo and a Great Alaskan is a lot more than just length ... The GA gives you a LOT more room inside the boat ... why restrict your space in the boat?  Wider and deeper is virtually free when comparing a Jumbo build to a similar-length Great Alaskan.  The boat's on either side of the GA might be Widebodies - I can't remember, but they still illustrate the point: