Author Topic: GA 28 built by Kachemak Skiffs Wasilla, AK  (Read 66195 times)

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Dan Boccia

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Re: GA 28 built by Kachemak Skiffs Wasilla, AK
« Reply #255 on: May 17, 2023, 11:33:07 PM »
One of the nagging problems I've had using my boat is that I cannot open the side windows while it's raining because the roof overhang is inadequate even in a perfect windless calm. This is surprisingly common among our size of boats. So after a couple of attempts and a lot of time spent testing a few options, I've finally arrived at something simple and elegant enough to actually be convenient. Keder awning track is through-bolted through the roof overhang, the cord was sewn into the Sunbrella awning at a local upholstery shop, and I fabricated the frame using 1/2" and 3/4" aluminum tubing. I crimped a piece of 5/16" stainless all-thread into the 1/2" tubing with my big electrical crimpers and filed/sanded it down afterward so it looks decent for the top stays. Already had the D-ring on the gunnel for tying my fender to.

Dan Boccia

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Re: GA 28 built by Kachemak Skiffs Wasilla, AK
« Reply #256 on: August 20, 2023, 04:51:14 PM »
Well, unfortunately the prop Sharrow sent me is way too big for my engine. It contacts the prop torque trim tab on the anti-ventilation plate. I feel like they sent me someone else's prop because it's nowhere close. I'll call them tomorrow to get it sorted out. Sorry unable to report any news. I've been crazy busy the past month boat building and traveling, so the prop sat in my living room just killing me to try it out. Severely disappointing. Oh well, at least I trolled up a couple kings and a couple silvers and got about 5 gallons of shrimp. Plus, I finally did a decent job of doing a full performance test of my existing prop. I had about 100 gal of fuel, 4 bags of ice, pot puller plus all my other goodies, with food/water for 3 days and no passengers during the test (next time I'll do it with a passenger, recording this info at 30+ knots is nerve wracking!). Conditions were little wind/gentle breeze, a bit of current from the very last of an ebbing tide, and 6-12" light ripple/chop. I did the test going up the bay I was in, then repeated going back out the bay and averaged these in an attempt to negate the effects of wind/current. I'm showing all the results for completeness.

It should be noted that my cabin is a bit taller than most, to accomodate friends who are 6'4" tall, and I always run an 8 1/2 ft rubber dinghy on the roof, so the extra height adds drag and weight vs those who run without a dinghy and have lower cabin rooflines.

My engine wants WOT RPM to be between 5500-6100 rpm, and I'm right around 5600, which is perfect, since for cruising efficiency you want to be on the low end of the RPM range as long as you're careful about not goosing the throttle, which would put a lot of stress on the bearings/shaft, etc. I'm always easy on the throttle with zero interest in hole shot so no problem there. Prop is a Solas Rubex L3+ 3x16x19.

I love that I hit Brian's design max efficiency speed of around 19-22 knots between 3500 and 4000 rpm, which is the sweet spot of most outboard engines, so this prop is about as good as I can get, and the 250 seems perfectly matched power wise to my particular boat and its configuration.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2023, 05:01:19 PM by Dan Boccia »

Lindy

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Re: GA 28 built by Kachemak Skiffs Wasilla, AK
« Reply #257 on: August 21, 2023, 10:40:19 AM »
Thanks Dan for the excellent real world data about your boat performance. I am bummed the Sharrow prop did not fit. I am waiting for your experience before I buy 2 of them to see if I can improve my 1.7 NM per gallon fuel usage. Hopefully Sharrow will send you a replacement ASAP.

Dan Boccia

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Re: GA 28 built by Kachemak Skiffs Wasilla, AK
« Reply #258 on: August 21, 2023, 12:46:22 PM »
Sharrow got back to me first thing this morning, explaining that I indeed DO have the intended prop, but that they will have to send me a flush trim tab (never heard of or seen such a thing) for my anti-cavitation plate so their prop will clear. Their prop is a 15.5x18, so diameter-wise it is fine, it's just 3 5/16" longer as measured along the shaft. The thrust washer and hub sleeve fit very nicely so hopefully the flush trim tab will get me up and running quickly. Super disappointed they failed to foresee that ahead of time since it's nowhere close, but I'm glad it looks like a quick fix. I will report when I have the new trim tab!

Dan Boccia

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Re: GA 28 built by Kachemak Skiffs Wasilla, AK
« Reply #259 on: August 21, 2023, 02:15:45 PM »
The boondoggle with Sharrow props continues. They claim that fin-type trim tabs are "rare these days" whereas every Yamaha and Suzuki outboard between 150-300HP I've worked on recently have fin-type trim tabs, so I encouraged them to specifically ask about this in the future to prevent this very preventable mishap. For $5k I expect better. Hopefully once I get the new flush trim tab I can get it tested quickly.

json

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Re: GA 28 built by Kachemak Skiffs Wasilla, AK
« Reply #260 on: August 21, 2023, 04:46:30 PM »
That's tough, at least it sounds like they are doing their best to get you up and running though. I agree that for $5k they should probably be more familiar with what's out there, aren't they pretty early stage still though, like still making props individually to fill orders? In any case, thought I would include a picture of mine, which is flush and came on a 2021 f300, only because I saw someone talking about adjusting it to correct prop steer at some point earlier and it popped in my head when I read this... Either way, hope you get it straightened out soon, I want to see some real world data on that prop!

Dan Boccia

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Re: GA 28 built by Kachemak Skiffs Wasilla, AK
« Reply #261 on: August 21, 2023, 04:52:35 PM »
Json, thanks for the pic! Dang, that "fin" is tiny, hard to believe it does much for prop torque but yeah, that would solve the problem!
They started R&D in 2012 and have been in production for a couple years, so I'm sure they're struggling to keep up with demand. Took 4 months to get my prop. I know a lot of folks are salivating to see how it performs on our lighter boats so I'm trying to get this sorted and the info out asap!

Brian.Dixon

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Re: GA 28 built by Kachemak Skiffs Wasilla, AK
« Reply #262 on: August 22, 2023, 07:39:08 AM »
Just some general statements ... Good to see the design efficiency point is verified by your data ... 19-22 kts, but actually runs pretty flat on the efficiency clear up to 26 kts or so with your boat.  Second, keep in mind that we're working the miraculous here ... A planing hull should have it's CG 60-65% aft of the (at rest) waterline, which means planing hulls are a teeter-totter with 2/3rds of the boat is ahead of the CG ... pretty dang tough, especially in a boat designed to be half the weight of commercially-built glass or aluminum tubs, to keep the CG in that window while outfitting the boat as a live-aboard.  This is why live-aboards are generally never a planing hull, but are fore/aft balanced displacement hulls.  As stated, it's somewhat miraculous that the Great Alaskan can be outfitted so completely yet still remain a high-speed planing hull.  Much of that success comes from the monohedron (amidships deadrise very close to the aft deadrise) hull form that this boat uses.  Someday I'm gonna write a white paper on all this.  In any case, I'm amazed at what people are able to do with this boat design.

Also, when it comes to efficiency, the #1 factor is weight ... aka 'displacement'.  The lighter the boat, regardless of hull design, the higher efficiency that boat will have.  The same thing applies to the Great Alaskan.  Those that have outfitted the boat heavily are of course going to get lower efficiency than the day-tripper folks.  All of the highly-outfitted Great Alaskans that I have seen have very good trim considering all that's been done with the boat in their cases, and they still get much higher mileage than their commercial equivalent.  For example, Lindy's boat is probably the most-outfitted one on the water and includes a lot of beautiful cabinetry, yet has achieved an impressive trim and efficiency that is still about double what the glass/aluminum tubs get.  I expect the Sharrow prop will be a good choice for those that have more live-aboard accommodations.  For those in the planning stages and are building a live-aboard set of accommodations, keeping the CG aft will help efficiency as well - you can move the pilot house a little aft (longer cuddy), raise the cockpit deck and put a bigger fuel tank under it while shortening/reducing the size of the forward tank, eliminate the forward tank and use saddle or box tanks at or behind the aft house bulkhead, move batteries and water tankage further aft, put motor(s) on longer brackets etc.  Lots of flexibility to play with here.

Keep up the great work, guys ... I'm really enjoying the results everyone is getting and the research and reporting.  That's what makes our community of Great Alaskan owners great.  Can't do it without ya!
« Last Edit: August 22, 2023, 07:41:53 AM by Brian.Dixon »
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Dan Boccia

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Re: GA 28 built by Kachemak Skiffs Wasilla, AK
« Reply #263 on: August 22, 2023, 11:32:42 AM »
Thanks for weighing in Brian.
My weight during the test would have been somewhere around 5800-6000 lb. I've run it across the local gravel company scales that are accurate to within 20 lb and have a thorough spreadsheet to add/subtract from that weight to arrive at my weight on the water for any given trip. For a "live aboard" my setup is actually very sparse. Typical things I do not have:
head, shower, sink, washdown pump, water tank, plumbing, propane locker/system, doors on cabin cabinets, etc. Plus, my cabin is largely foam core, there was no overbuilding of fiberglass, etc. I'm very happy with the sparse camping setup, and it feels luxurious to me since in previous lives I was a climber, backpacker, etc. That said, I do carry a spare anchor, spare prop, spare chain/nylon anchor rode, two survival suits, tools, spare parts, etc.

Dan Boccia

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Re: GA 28 built by Kachemak Skiffs Wasilla, AK
« Reply #264 on: September 29, 2023, 09:46:20 PM »
Finally, after another boondoggle with the Sharrow prop, I got a preliminary prop test completed. After quickly replacing the prop torque fin with the flush fin, I put the prop back on, tightened the prop nut down, torqued to 40 ft-lb as spec'd by Suzuki, tweaked the nut to line up for the cotter pin.......and could not get the cotter pin through. Looking closer, the bottom of the slots on the castle/prop nut barely get past the hole in the shaft for the cotter pin. Unbelievable! I checked the prop barrel penetration into the cavity of the lower unit and it's perfect - could not possibly have a thinner thrust washer. After doing some online searching for a shorter prop nut spacer, I ran down to my Suzuki shop with prop and hardware and pics in hand, and it stumped their mechanic who has been doing this 30 years. He was unaware of a thinner prop nut spacer. That sent me home pissed, but determined to somehow get it right. More online research yielded nothing. So I began machining down the spacer and ultimately jigged it up on a right angle jig and cut 3/32" off on my chop saw (it's bronze so easy to cut), cleaned it up with a file, and also filed down the slots in the castle nut a bit. After a bit more fiddling everything fit together perfectly. With very little time before another major incoming storm, I took off for Whittier, an hour away, at 4:30pm. Needless to say the test is already inconclusive because I was unable to get back to the exact weight I was at when I tested the existing Solas prop, so I was probably 200-250 lb lighter.

I played around with engine trim to find the best trim at around 3000 rpm, but totally forgot to do the same for the trim tabs, and proceeded to get on with the test in the building twilight at 6:30pm. You can see in the results graph that, as typical with these props, there is improvement in the low to mid range rpms. In this case, at 3000 rpm, it was only about a 6.8% improvement in NMPG, pretty underwhelming. This graph is the average of my data going both out and back in the same fjord, to eliminate any effects of tidal current, which was minimal given it was low slack tide and there was no wind. With the test complete I started running back to port and realized I forgot to tweak the trim tabs, which always makes a noticeable difference for me. Short story is that at about 3000 rpm I was able to get 6.4% better NMPG than recorded during the test. So, with a lot of caveats, we can say this test shows 13.2% improvement in NMPG at the midrange, BUT, obviously, a proper test needs to be conducted with both props on the same body of water etc. The bottom line? If you are keen to order one for a standard GA, I'm only mildly enthusiastic to support you....for now. There's a good chance the improvement in efficiency/range is only about 7-12% here. I think it's fair to say it will not be up around 30% that I secretly pined for. Yes, it did run a bit smoother and quieter, and there was zero prop torque that I could feel. It's definitely a good prop, but I'm still unsure exactly how much better than my carefully selected standard prop. Another interesting point is that WOT was 5594 rpm, EXACT same as my Solas prop, so Sharrow nailed it there. I have a feeling they modeled the performance of my Solas prop with their design.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2023, 10:07:47 PM by Dan Boccia »

Brian.Dixon

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Re: GA 28 built by Kachemak Skiffs Wasilla, AK
« Reply #265 on: September 30, 2023, 08:10:06 AM »
Thanks, Dan!  Looking at the graphs, I'm doubting that there is any prop (or other) solution that will get your pined-for 30% increase in efficiency.  Probably because the GA hull is already pretty optimized for efficiency - other boat designs may benefit more from the Sharrow prop.  I do like the increase speed in the mid-range area for a given rpms - running lower rpms for a target speed results in a longer lasting motor and a quieter cruise.  You can't put numbers on those things, but they do have value as well.

« Last Edit: September 30, 2023, 04:03:28 PM by Brian.Dixon »
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Rbob

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Re: GA 28 built by Kachemak Skiffs Wasilla, AK
« Reply #266 on: September 30, 2023, 10:48:59 AM »
The mid range is a great improvement.  I am curious if you have tried to calculate prop slip?  They have calculator's online.  With the increase in speed over the Solas prop it must be related with prop slip.

Good info!

Dan Boccia

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Re: GA 28 built by Kachemak Skiffs Wasilla, AK
« Reply #267 on: September 30, 2023, 11:28:08 AM »
I'm eager to do another test with more time to get everything right. I think for the Kodiaks, there may be greater improvement because what I see online is that the bigger, heavier boats get the biggest benefit, but there's a very good chance that's more related to their higher deadrise/deep-V design.

In my case, if I can improve my range by 10%, that adds about 30 miles of range, the equivalent of 10 or 11 gallons of gas. So that's helpful, and way easier than dealing with a couple spare containers of gas stored somewhere that I haven't figured out yet.....but for $5k, not helpful enough to recommend to anyone. More testing needed! I'll try again next week after tanner crab opener and this crazy storm blows itself out. 

Dan Boccia

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Re: GA 28 built by Kachemak Skiffs Wasilla, AK
« Reply #268 on: October 06, 2023, 10:17:25 PM »
More on the Sharrow prop: Went out to set crab traps a couple days ago with a friend who is familiar with the boat. After setting traps we ran out about 45 minutes to do some fishing, and on the way back, he commented that it's noticeably quieter, because in the past we had to talk pretty loud to have a conversation which led to minor headaches with all the noise and quiet yelling, whereas with the Sharrow we conversed at normal volumes and had zero headache and we both noticed significantly less noise fatigue. That's a pretty major periphery advantage to this prop. I'm planning to keep it :)

Brian.Dixon

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Re: GA 28 built by Kachemak Skiffs Wasilla, AK
« Reply #269 on: October 07, 2023, 06:03:05 AM »

Reduction of fatigue caused by noise is a huge deal ... especially on long trips where it can result in foggy-head bad decisions that lead to safety issues.  It's why they recommend full ear-muff type headsets to pilots, not just speakers and mics.

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